Czerka Labs HM

[Metalenceladus]

Running into a consistent meme in SWTOR that is starting to give me a headache.

I'm looking for experts to maybe confirm, or debunk a claim of mine.

When running Czerka Labs HM, the first boss has a tendency to wipe a GF group every once and a while.

I have determined this is because some DPS refuse to clear the adds that collect around the boss.

My experiment was to run a Labs group with Guildies after the failed run with a P.U.G. (I am healing on a Operative with set bonuses in 162 gear) This time I had them clear the adds around the boss and we beat it quite easily. Admittedly, we actually had a tank that had more than 30k hp, however, I don't think this should factor much on this boss.

After watching how the adds operate, I have determined that they aggro people withing a certain proximity, not exactly sure what it is. When I bring this up with people outside my guild at least 70% them tell me I'm wrong, and if you don't attack the adds they wont attack you. My counter to this is I don't attack the adds (I am healing), and when I get pulled in by the boss, the adds around the boss still shoot me. But only when I am close enough. 1 or 2 adds doing this hardly matters, 4 can one shot you, especially during the water electrocution phase.

I have run the experiment, and I am NOT imagining things. I just need people to further confirm my suspicions, so that I can start teaching people the right way to do this with confidence.

 

To clarify, I am not saying the adds will "Aggro" you in the traditional sense. What I am saying is, more often than not, the adds will shoot someone if they get close to them. They will not follow you, and if your outside like 10m, they wont do anything to you. However, they will slowly encroach on the boss and your anchor spot, so that if you get puled in by the boss, you will enter their 'Aggro Zone' and they will t-up on you. 1-2 is not to bad (Unless its Electrocution phase), 3-4 will one shot most heals/DPS.

 

I appreciate all the well-mannered feedback, I never considered that it was a bug, but honestly that does make the most sense. I do now recognize that the adds will not always attack things within their 'Aggro Zone', but since there is no way to know when that will occur, the best option at this point is to clear the adds, preferably with a ranged attack, if you do that, they can't attack you back. And you only need to kill the adds around the boss, and if they get too close to your anchor point. (Anchor point refers to where you have the Heals/Ranged DPS plant themselves so that the side adds don't shoot them, and where they can drop AOE heals during the Electrocution Phase, also good for Jugg/Guard's to intercede to)

Edited March 11, 2014 by Metalenceladus

[ScarletBlaze]

My friend has ran this so I asked her. (I haven't done this on Hard yet) and she said that the adds only attack when you agro and sometimes a healer has an area heal that will agro. (She has a scoundrel and operative)

 

She said that most groups she runs with will pay attention to the adds and when they start shooting they will then destroy the adds but if they don't they leave them alone. She said the best advise is to tell the DPS to pay attention to the adds and if they start shooting then they should go and kill the adds.

 

Not sure this helps.

 

Edit: My friend ran this last night again and specifically watch for the adds to see this. She said there is a phase when the droid is shielded during the electric water part that you can kill the droids and that might help.

Edited March 13, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[MarsherMeow]

This is due to them for some reason not moving into range until someone moves into their range first. It is supposed to be fixed in 2.7 but I haven't tested it myself.

[Reallynotaknight]

This is due to them for some reason not moving into range until someone moves into their range first. It is supposed to be fixed in 2.7 but I haven't tested it myself.

 

I always thought the adds were bugged or something. I have had runs where we ignored the adds till the end, and besides shooting the healer a few times and stopping it was pretty easy. I have also had runs where five of them destroy the tank randomly as it is leaving the water.

 

My opinion: play it safe. Just burn them down during the electrified phase. preferably quickly with a ranged dps as to not waste potential dps on the boss and risk an enrage.

[altaboy]

I always thought the adds were bugged or something. I have had runs where we ignored the adds till the end, and besides shooting the healer a few times and stopping it was pretty easy. I have also had runs where five of them destroy the tank randomly as it is leaving the water.

 

This is my experience also. Though I'm usually on my healer when they do decide to attack, and it's me they burn down instead of the tank.

 

I almost always do this in PuG's. Sometimes you get dps that burn down the adds as soon as they appear. Sometimes you get dps that ignore the adds even as they are destroying my healer. And on a rare occasion you get the smart dps that only attack the adds if they start attacking first.

[akakage]

From my experience both as tank, healer and dps. Ignore the adds unless they get aggroed by whatever reason.

Then dps burn those asap but leave the others. This is what works for me each time.

 

If some get too close, you can burn them during the electified water phase.

[Jerba]

From what I understand, the adds always try to be in 30m range, so they will walk towards their target (usually the healer) if it is too far away. However, it seems like they only attack if the target is within like 10m, so unless you walk directly into them, they won't damage you. Still, they deal a fair amount of damage, so if you want to attack them, be quick and don't attack too many at once, since 3+ adds can nearly one-shot a player with ~20k HP.

 

From my experience, it is better to stay at range from the adds and ignore them. The reason for that is that the boss has a large HP pool, and if you are pugging DPS in HM, you may risk that the boss becomes enraged. I've seen this happening a few times when the FP first came out. I guess this no longer happens too often since everyone has 78 comms gear now, but the habit stuck.

 

I haven't tried the Czerka flashpoints on the test server (and I don't plan on going to), but I guess once 2.7 hits the live servers, it is better to do the adds as soon as they spawn.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Jerba

[nightsproull]

Sometimes they walk really close to the boss, and get aggroed by an aoe attack. Other than that, I've never seen them aggro from range.

[wainot-keel]

Like it's been said, most effective way to deal with the adds is ignore them unless they are attacking someone (proximity seems to be a factor). They're really weak but they can hit quite hard on squishies.....

[psandak]

It is a combination of if attacked they attack and proximity, and it is a bug (it does not make sense to have adds that don't attack).

 

In my experience - playing all three roles, if a group is having trouble with this boss due to the adds (because they do hit like a truck), I force the issue killing them myself if I have to.

[PaveTheWay]

Hi,

 

The boss itself is bugged & has been since day dot. Two things to consider really; as stated below (or above depending on your reading pane), if the ads attack within proximity - unfortunately you've to kill the ads, if not, leave them be... Bit of a strange one to explain but if you've witnessed it first hand like us guys, you'll just have to roll with the punch until it's fixed. Easy boss regardless of the bug, just a bit of a pain if others in the group aren't singing from the same hymn sheet.

[Metalenceladus]

Absolutely. I will mention to DPS that they need to kill the adds near the boss because they are shooting people that get in proximity. They will retort with, "I don't need to kill the adds, you just suck at healing." Which I respond with a big F.U. it's not like I have never beaten Labs before. On the contrary, I run it all the time, better loot and more fun than a lot of the other ones, as long as I don't get complete ******* who think they know better than I do.

But the consensus on the forums have been, they will shoot if you roll near them some of the time. Sometimes they just do nothing. I usually solo clear them on my Mercenary with Death From Above, but he is in full 78's and I could two man that FP. On my lower toons, it's harder to launch a Force Storm or Orbital Strike and completely clear them. My Guildies just kill them near the boss all the time, just in case, so this only occurs when stupid PUGS don't understand mechanics, usually lazy DPS.

[JackNader]

Ok the mechanics for the fight area really simple.

 

The Boss has a ridiculous amount of HP and will enrage if you take to long to kill him. Killing the adds increases the likelihood of hitting the enrage. Adds hit very hard. The healer ALWAYS agros the ADDS through healing. The ADDS have a maximum weapon range and minimum distance from target range. Their minimum distance from target is actually greater than their weapon range. This is why the ADDS stand around doing nothing unless the healer comes within their weapon distance.

 

Anyone who is outside of the BOSS range is chosen randomly for a grapple. This will cause the ADDS to move into minimum distance from target range. They are doing this all the time throughout the fight and occasionally you will pull adds into the area where most healers like to stand at the edge of the water boundary.

 

If anyone dies to ADDS at all during this fight it is because someone does not understand the mechanics.

There are 2 methods I use and they are different depending on what class I am playing at the time.

 

Powertech tank

 

Use Death from above, Explosive dart or missile blast to knock the ADDS away from the Boss so that if the healer is pulled in they will not be shot to pieces.

 

Assassin tank

 

Overload the ADDS away from the Boss

 

Juggernaut tank

 

Force push the ADDS away from the boss.

 

Sorcerer healer

 

Overload the ADDS away from where I am standing. I will ALWAYS have the fadeout talent so I cannot be snared by the electrified water.

Operative healer

 

I will instruct all the DPS and tanks to not run out of the electrified water. I will ensure that 2 stacks of kolo probes are on everyone at all times. I will put the boss on focus target and hit Recuperative Nanotech the moment I see his channel and then heal the DPS and myself. There is a 30 second period to get everyone back to full health between phases. Any half decent operative healer can do this.

 

The reason I do this is to increase the DPS on the boss and it completely prevents the ADDS from moving in towards me.

 

Mercenary healer

 

I will instruct all DPS to stack on the boss and not run out of the electrified water. I will ensure everyone has a kolto shell on them and I will spam my aoe heal every 6 seconds.

[wainot-keel]

I've healed this with the 3 healing classes and I certainly do not always aggro the adds. Only when they happen to spawn close to me.

 

Also, I'm kinda against the idea of ignoring mechanics through outhealing damage that should be avoided. Reinforces bad habits on dps who simply won't move out of harming s**** just because.

Any half decent dps is capable of using "wasd" to move when they have to.

[Gwarok]

Well I haven't run this but here is my take.

 

1) If you kill the adds, no wipe, no problem

2) If you ignore the adds, sometimes they don't aggro, but sometimes they do, killing healers and causing a wipe

 

So why not just kill the adds and not worry about it? Sure, you can hope in a PUG you've got DPS smart enough to react if they aggro, but since when is hoping you're with smart people in a PUG a good policy? Better to just play it safe.

[Nkya]

I also think the adds attack only when we're close of them, independently of what we're doing. To me, the best handly of them is:

 

* Push them out of the way if one have such a power avaiable.

* If adds are about the boss, AOE the lot of them

* Kill the adds at home if releveant when you're returning. The boss is shielded against damage anyway.

* Don't kill them otherwise. The far ones are no thread, the group will waste time dealing with them, the boss will enrage if the fight last.

 

I've never tried but I'm not sure standing under the boss and heal would be more efficient; the boss raises a shield greaty reducing damage.

[wainot-keel]

Well I haven't run this but here is my take.

 

1) If you kill the adds, no wipe, no problem

2) If you ignore the adds, sometimes they don't aggro, but sometimes they do, killing healers and causing a wipe

 

So why not just kill the adds and not worry about it? Sure, you can hope in a PUG you've got DPS smart enough to react if they aggro, but since when is hoping you're with smart people in a PUG a good policy? Better to just play it safe.

 

Well, I think this is where everyone's experiences varies.

 

I've had less trouble asking pug dps "ignore adds unless they attack you" than "deal with adds asap when they spawn". Most DPS are oblivious enough of their surroundings so it's easy to ask them to do what they usually they do by default.If I'm healing and an add is attacking me, I won't wait for a dps to do anything, I'll kill the add myself. If the dps reacts, even better.

[Aharx]

This is my experience also. Though I'm usually on my healer when they do decide to attack, and it's me they burn down instead of the tank.

 

I almost always do this in PuG's. Sometimes you get dps that burn down the adds as soon as they appear. Sometimes you get dps that ignore the adds even as they are destroying my healer. And on a rare occasion you get the smart dps that only attack the adds if they start attacking first.

 

Yeah I typically am in groups that ignore the adds. They never seem to bother anyone. It would make the fight somewhat less of a mind-numbing experience if the adds actually ran in and attacked people. Albeit sometimes they do fire a shot off here and there but it shouldn't be anything that is wiping the group. If I am in a guild run I'll typically be able to contribute more DPS then when in a PuG and so I pick off the adds if the tank doesn't need healing at the moment.

[JouerTue]

from my experience i've noticed that sometimes they aggro, just for proximity or aoe, idk..butif it happens it takes a second to burn them..when dpsing, a well placed aoe on those near the boss really helps..in general in that FP i wipe when i pug with low dps (<30k hp) even if satisfying the item rating it seems the dps loss due to boss pull prevents to kill it before enrage