DPS requirement for SM/HM/NiM

[ChroniKill]

Does anyone have a list of (roughly) minimum DPS parses on a dummy to be able handle various operations? I've tried looking around and there doesn't seem to be anything. Obviously they're not set in stone, but is there some sort of guideline?

[phat_maban]

A rough guess would be

 

SM 1500 dps

HM 2000 dps

NiM 2500 dps

 

I know it sounds simple but it pretty much is.

[TACeMossie]

On a debuffed dummy with 1 million health

 

1000 dps for SM EV/KP

1250 dps for SM EC, HM EV/KP

1500 dps for HM EC, NiM EV/KP

1750 dps for NiM EC

2000 dps for SM SnV/TFB/TC

2500 dps for SM DF/DP, HM TFB/SnV/TC

3000 dps for HM DF/DP, NiM TFB/SnV

 

Granted you have to know mechanics of the fights and stuff, and I have no idea what the dps requirements for NiM DF/DP are gonna be, but thats a good amount to hit for everything.

 

Also thats what I'd recommend hitting on the dummy before trying out in the ops, but with enough people in full 78 comm gear you probably wont have to worry about anywhere near as many of these numbers (e.g. you could run NiM EV in blue comm gear obtained from the Belsavis vendor with all the 55s running around in their over-the-top gear and still finish it. Just let someone else kill your council member)

Edited March 3, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Falver]

On a debuffed dummy with 1 million health

 

1000 dps for SM EV/KP

1250 dps for SM EC, HM EV/KP

1500 dps for HM EC, NiM EV/KP

1750 dps for NiM EC

2000 dps for SM SnV/TFB/TC

2500 dps for SM DF/DP, HM TFB/SnV/TC

3000 dps for HM DF/DP, NiM TFB/SnV

 

Granted you have to know mechanics of the fights and stuff, and I have no idea what the dps requirements for NiM DF/DP are gonna be, but thats a good amount to hit for everything.

 

Also thats what I'd recommend hitting on the dummy before trying out in the ops, but with enough people in full 78 comm gear you probably wont have to worry about anywhere near as many of these numbers (e.g. you could run NiM EV in blue comm gear obtained from the Belsavis vendor with all the 55s running around in their over-the-top gear and still finish it. Just let someone else kill your council member)

 

About what I was thinking. I'd drop the requirements of SM DF/DP and HM DF/DP. 2500 across the board is acceptable to clear HM DF/DP, albeit it would be more difficult.

 

The way to look at DPS is not how much do I need to do so and so. Rather, it's my DPS is _____ I'm going to need to carried/I'm capable of carrying. Our guild has had the privilege (>_>) of carrying some excellent pugs through the HM content. They did around 1200 on the council and, while we did kill it, it was still carrying by all definitions. Try to be as good at your rotation as possible so that your guild, and pugs, see you as an asset rather than a DPS burden.

[Evolixe]

Pretty much. Count on 3500 for NiM DP/DF.

[ChroniKill]

Thanks for all the advice. Looks like my mara and Sorc are completely fine for up to HM TFB/S&V but will be a bit short for HM DF/DP. Long way to go on my shadow though.

 

Very stupid question - I'm guessing by debuff you mean only the armour reduction, not the 30% health too?

[DuEldrvarya]

Ummmmmmmm.... I can't say I agree. Honestly it depends on how bad/good you are at matching your parses on bosses.

 

All ev kp modes require at maximum 1000 dps....

EC is only higher not because of enrage but because of mechanics so still like 1300.

 

SM tfb/snv maybe 1500, its so bad the carry that can be done there.

Sm df again 1500 (it has been 2/3 manned already)

 

SM DP/HM SNV/HM TFB 2k-2500 (hm styrak is probably the only one were you would expect to have closer to 2500, but the rest of the bosses aren't enrage timers)

 

NIM TFB 2500-2700 (no real enrage timers to worry about if everyone is alive. DG is a little painful with slow dps, but it's still not bad)

 

HM DF/DP 2750 (again these fights are almost exclusively not enrage bosses just burst phases)

 

NIM SNV 2750-3k (This instance has the harshest enrages in the game right now, but numerous bosses allow for dps to pull near dummy numbers)

 

Hateful entity (since its all the rage) isn't really even a dps check if everyone is alive but since people rarely do perfect pulls everyone prefers dps pulling over 3k.

 

---------------------------------------------------

NiM DF 3300, obviously we don't actually know how these fights are gonna be in nim, and generally speaking we know that BW loves to make fights very dps checky, BUT unlike hm snv and hm tfb, HM DF/DP hasn't actually shown us any enrage timers to concern ourselves with. So the best we can do is guess.

 

And I will assume NIM DP would expect about 3500 dps considering we will be into the next tier of gear anyways.

[theblaznee]

Having a dummy parse really only shows that you know the rotation of your class, which is ofcourse needed for Nightmare and for some hardmodes.

 

A dummy parse of 3k+ doesn't automatically qualify you for the encounters though, if you can't do near that while following mechanics..

 

It is ofcourse the only Measurement possible for dps we have, but it has to be taken with a grain of salt.. I've seen people with 3k+ parses just standing in stupid, simply because they wanted to follow their rotation SO strictly that they didn't think or look at anything else.

 

Now that being said... The above post is probably about right.. In the guild I'm in you have to post a 2,7k parse to qualify for NiM runs right now.. That will be adjusted as Things get harder, but for now it's enough.. And that's doable with mostly 72 gear augmented.

 

If you know the class rotation and have close to BiS gear in the tier below what the NiM more you're attempting gives, that's what it's balanced for. Simple as that..

[JDotter]

Having a dummy parse really only shows that you know the rotation of your class, which is ofcourse needed for Nightmare and for some hardmodes.

 

A dummy parse of 3k+ doesn't automatically qualify you for the encounters though, if you can't do near that while following mechanics..

 

It is ofcourse the only Measurement possible for dps we have, but it has to be taken with a grain of salt.. I've seen people with 3k+ parses just standing in stupid, simply because they wanted to follow their rotation SO strictly that they didn't think or look at anything else.

 

Now that being said... The above post is probably about right.. In the guild I'm in you have to post a 2,7k parse to qualify for NiM runs right now.. That will be adjusted as Things get harder, but for now it's enough.. And that's doable with mostly 72 gear augmented.

 

If you know the class rotation and have close to BiS gear in the tier below what the NiM more you're attempting gives, that's what it's balanced for. Simple as that..

 

Hatred #1 rule if you in the middle of series of shot one must not cancel it.

 

To add more of this when I look for players I always prefer mechanics over someone with better dps ( 30-70) assuming same gear/rng. You can teach proper rotation & effective cooldowns. You can't teach a player situational awareness & knowing how to maximize dps per phase.

 

I also hate healers who have 15 apm because they refuse to dps any and all phases.

[mastirkal]

Hatred #1 rule if you in the middle of series of shot one must not cancel it.

 

To add more of this when I look for players I always prefer mechanics over someone with better dps ( 30-70) assuming same gear/rng. You can teach proper rotation & effective cooldowns. You can't teach a player situational awareness & knowing how to maximize dps per phase.

 

I also hate healers who have 15 apm because they refuse to dps any and all phases.

 

Well if the fight is easy enough that healers only have to do 15 APM I'd assume the fight is face roll enough that dps shouldn't even be an issue Milas.

Edited March 4, 2014 by mastirkal

[phat_maban]

3k for current HM operations my bum

 

2500 is absolutely fine.

 

Some people are thinking that just because some classes are parsing over 3k on a dummy that they can bring that to a raid and that translates to a median parse everyone should be aiming for.

 

For e.g. I just did a quick search of HM DP for mercs and the results are as follows.

 

26 parses in the world above 3k for nef

0 above 3k on draxus

50 on grob (to be expected on mechanic light fight)

9 above 3k CZ

1 above 3k on brontes.

 

Dps need 3k to complete this content my arse.

 

*mara and snipers should be looking to be near 3k but "needing" 3k to complete this is rubbish.

Edited March 5, 2014 by phat_maban

[TACeMossie]

3k for current HM operations my bum

 

2500 is absolutely fine.

 

Some people are thinking that just because some classes are parsing over 3k on a dummy bring that to a raid and that translates to a midian parse everyone should be aiming for.

 

For e.g. I just did a quick search of HM DP for mercs and the results are as follows.

 

26 parses in the world above 3k for nef

0 above 3k on draxus

50 on grob (to be expected on mechanic light fight)

9 above 3k CZ

1 above 3k on brontes.

 

Dps need 3k to complete this content my arse.

 

*mara and snipers should be looking to be near 3k but "needing" 3k to complete this is rubbish.

 

3K on a dummy. Not 3K in a fight. I hit 3K on a dummy with my vanguard, yet he barely hits 2K in those fights. Except nefra, but thats bascially a dummy fight (and in fact he does better against nefra than on a dummy because resource regen from taking AoE damage) So...

Edited March 5, 2014 by TACeMossie

[phat_maban]

My point exactly.

 

Dummy parses mean bugger all. Real world kills on bosses where you have to move and react to mechanics is where it is at.

[Alucardess]

And yet dummy parse is still important because it represents what a person can do if the fight is a tank and spank. DPS in fights is almost always lower if there's target switching. Thus a 2.5k on dummy usually translates to around 1.8k to 2.2k depending on how good they are. On some fights it's even lower depending on spec.

[Khevar]

My point exactly.

 

Dummy parses mean bugger all. Real world kills on bosses where you have to move and react to mechanics is where it is at.

The main reason to parse on a dummy is to practice a rotation / priority list in a perfect world, without having to move or blow defensive cooldowns. If your dummy parse goes up with the same gear, it means you've figured out a more optimal way to use your abilities.

 

While it doesn't mean you're going to do fine in a real fight, if you're UNABLE to do well on the Ops Dummy, you're going to be in big trouble when the bantha poodoo hits the fan.

 

A side effect of doing dummy parses is that it is simply practice, and reduces the amount of time you spend thinking "what should I do next" in a real fight.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Khevar

[phat_maban]

Im not saying it is irrelevant or not useful just incredibly inaccurate when ppl claim you need 3k dps to do current HM content.

[Khevar]

Im not saying it is irrelevant or not useful just incredibly inaccurate when ppl claim you need 3k dps to do current HM content.

Fair enough. As inaccurate as it may be, it is hard to answer any other way when someone is concerned (as a dps) about their ability to carry their weight in an operation.

 

If you took 4 dps in an 8-man HM DF and HM DP, none of whom were able to parse higher than 2500 on a you-don't-have-to-move ops dummy, would they be able to beat the enrage timers in actual fights? Not sure. I imagine it would be pretty darn tight.

[Macio]

I would say as bare minimum for anyone to do DF HM if full 72 with ability to parse 2600+ in this gear.

My group went in with full 72s, and maybe one or two pices of 78 bought for commnedatios. I was parsing like 2700 in this gear and rest of our team was like 2600 (commando and two sentinels).

 

With that gear we slowly progressed thru DF and had no chance to do Bestia in DP due to DPS required.

 

DPS on dummy tells you how well you can play your role in very static fight, but raid awareness is very important as well. If you have someone that can only do 2.5 on dummy but will also play great on bosses, he will outperform a lot of people that can parse higher on dummy but just spend too much time during fights thinking what to do next.

 

Dummy parses are good as general indication of how well someone can potential perform but parses from bosses are what will tell you does they have what it takes to be good raider.

[Hatstandard]

There is no way NM DF will require 3500 from the DPS. Nor is it vaguely correct to suggest HM DP DF or even NM SNV require 3000.

 

The people suggesting this appear more or less clueless of what actual DPS numbers are. Yep you are wrong enough to appear a noob for suggesting it.

[phat_maban]

There is no way NM DF will require 3500 from the DPS. Nor is it vaguely correct to suggest HM DP DF or even NM SNV require 3000.

 

The people suggesting this appear more or less clueless of what actual DPS numbers are. Yep you are wrong enough to appear a noob for suggesting it.

 

 

 

Yeah 3000 is what some individuals are hitting on some fights and even then they are very good players.

 

Certainly not a requirement to complete current content.

Edited March 7, 2014 by phat_maban

[Khevar]

There is no way NM DF will require 3500 from the DPS.

The enrage timers don't seem that tight on the PTS right now. So unless there is a significant boost when it goes live, you're probably right.

Nor is it vaguely correct to suggest HM DP DF or even NM SNV require 3000.

For HM DF/DP perhaps, but NM SnV? I don't agree.

 

Remember we're talking about a dummy parse. Every single dps that I know who has made it through NM SnV can parse 3000 on an Ops dummy without breaking a sweat.

 

Conversely, some of the dps I know that can't break 2500 on the ops dummy are certainly NOT yet ready for NM SnV. Either they need more gear, or they need more practice. Or both.

The people suggesting this appear more or less clueless of what actual DPS numbers are. Yep you are wrong enough to appear a noob for suggesting it.

So if you think I'm wrong about the above, would you care to provide some hard numbers?

Edited March 7, 2014 by Khevar

[phat_maban]

The enrage timers don't seem that tight on the PTS right now. So unless there is a significant boost when it goes live, you're probably right.

 

For HM DF/DP perhaps, but NM SnV? I don't agree.

 

Remember we're talking about a dummy parse. Every single dps that I know who has made it through NM SnV can parse 3000 on an Ops dummy without breaking a sweat.

 

Conversely, some of the dps I know that can't break 2500 on the ops dummy are certainly NOT yet ready for NM SnV. Either they need more gear, or they need more practice. Or both.

 

So if you think I'm wrong about the above, would you care to provide some hard numbers?

 

I have not played the PTS yet but i remember reading that the NiM testing is using HM health pools and only testing mechanics atm.

 

The dummy parse is something that should be taken with a grain of salt and a parse on a dummy is not reflective of what someone will need in dps to be able to complete a operation that OP was talking about. It needs context when being discussed.

 

Hard numbers are there on torparse. These numbers for each boss kill are a much closer representation of what the best should be pulling on a boss and is a lot more relevant to OP's question.

 

OP's question is a little flawed as the dummy parse will not give the clearest representation of what he/she wants to know.

[Korntorn]

As a rough guide for what to aim for as a dps I think the values given are good goals for dummy parses if you want painless clears. You can certainly do the operations with less, but with progressively higher requirements for the raid.

 

If you cannot do ~2,7k on dummy you will have to be carried on some bosses in DF/DP HM. You won't get past Bestia if everyone cannot hit over 2,5k in the actual fight.

 

On PTS the minimal requirement for NiM first fight is probably only ~2,7k effective dps counting tanks and healers helping out, but you can be sure it will be boosted a lot before it hits live.

[Red_rocks]

Fair enough. As inaccurate as it may be, it is hard to answer any other way when someone is concerned (as a dps) about their ability to carry their weight in an operation.

 

If you took 4 dps in an 8-man HM DF and HM DP, none of whom were able to parse higher than 2500 on a you-don't-have-to-move ops dummy, would they be able to beat the enrage timers in actual fights? Not sure. I imagine it would be pretty darn tight.

 

Exactly, bestia would be incredibly difficult with 4 dps who can only do 2500 dps on a derpdummy.

They would barely be cracking 2k in that fight and anyones whos done bestia with that low dps knows what that causes....

My guild burns from 50% and as long as all 4 dps do 2400+ the boss dies before a 3rd set of adds spawns and its stupid easy. Lower dps makes that particular strat impossible.

And if you can kill bestia like that you can kill the only other dps race mob in the zone.. council too.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Red_rocks

[soowonlee]

Dummy dps is a necessary, but not sufficient condition. While there is no guarantee that someone who parses well will perform well in a live fight, it is almost certainly true that someone who parses poorly on a dummy will perform poorly in a fight.

 

One benefit of dummy parsing is that it puts the rotation "in your fingers." Not having to think about your rotation thereby frees up cognitive bandwith and allows you to focus on fight mechanics.