Hybrids ruining solo queue?

[Ottoattack]

Hybrids hinder performance in 1 tank 2 dps 1 healer format (if any of them is not full tree), but hybrids in dps vs dps or 3 dps 1 heal vs 3 dps 1 heal unquestionably throws of the game balance.

[CaptainApop]

Honestly I don't mind hybrids, quite like them to tell the truth. They mix things up. I mainly play a pure healer so maybe they are literally hitler in 4dps vs 4dps and I'd have no idea. Don't care much either as 4v4 dps is a cluster**** to begin with.

((hybrid tank + hybrid healer + 2 dps that are not hybrids)vs(4 Pure DPS) seems amusingly unlikely to just occur for the record. If it's happening a lot then that's probably more to do with the low player pools and faction bias most servers experience.)

 

Besides, the only way to "combat" them is to limit what people can and cannot do with their characters and why are you playing an MMORPG at that point and not literally any other 8v8 format game?

 

Personally I'd quite like the window allowing you to see the other teams composition before you even fight removed and just let the role composition be something people had to work out. I realize that wouldn't be terribly popular however.

Edited February 25, 2014 by CaptainApop

[TezMoney]

Personally I'd quite like the window allowing you to see the other teams composition before you even fight removed and just let the role composition be something people had to work out. I realize that wouldn't be terribly popular however.

 

I think stealth classes already have a big enough advantage in arenas, don't you?

[CaptainApop]

I think stealth classes already have a big enough advantage in arenas, don't you?

 

You mean the non-existent dps ops, non-existent tankassins or the healers who spend bugger all time in stealth and do **** all with stealth?

 

Sure why not.

 

Maybe infiltrate would need to be re-worked into something a bit less *********** stupid but other than that most people can do basic maths. If you can't see one member then there's a stealther about you should be watching for.

Edited February 25, 2014 by CaptainApop

[MotorCityMan]

Dps being able to guard is a very powerful advantage, as is dps being able to heal. It isn't unusual to see 4 dps who sync queued and have heals and guard, sometimes the other dps is guarded as well. This nullifies, to some degree, the other team's focus.

As I mentioned previously, Bioware took pains to handicap PTs for doing that, but some unknown reason were oblivious to other hybrids.

Edited February 25, 2014 by MotorCityMan

[clubdeeko]

they need to move innervate or healing trance up the tree at least 1 tier so that the hybrid is nerfed. Its becoming a total pass in the ***.

[Z-ToXiN]

When people run hybrid heals, I dont think they realize they are actually potentially hurting their team badly.

 

I had several Arenas today with a full healing Scoundrel and a hybrid Sage. The other team also had a healer and 3 full DPS players. We were at a disadvantage b/c we lacked a 3rd full DPSer, and we ended up losing b/c of that.

 

Bottom line, people need to stop looking for ways to cheat the system and actually get good at playing a real spec.

 

"Real spec" - Really?

 

Do you want to force everyone into playing one of 3 specs per class?

 

Whats wrong with some creativity?

 

Maybe some people find more enjoyment in playing hybrids, find them more suited to their playstyle, or are just plain more effective? If someone wants to make a tradeoff, let them.

 

Arguably, locking stances would be a better solution to prevent people from tanking in DPS spec and getting queued as DPS. So a DPS spec in tank stance would be queued as Tank and be locked into tank stance in the arena.

 

As for hybrid heals, I think the tradeoff of DPS for healing compensates for itself. They cant be doing both healing and damage at the same time the way a tank stance can guard and do damage at the same time.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Z-ToXiN

[foxmob]

"Real spec" - Really?

 

Do you want to force everyone into playing one of 3 specs per class?

 

Whats wrong with some creativity?

 

Maybe some people find more enjoyment in playing hybrids, find them more suited to their playstyle, or are just plain more effective? If someone wants to make a tradeoff, let them..

1. I don't give a something something what "some people find more" enjoyable. BW has specifically stated that they don't want hybrids and tried (with typical BW success/failure) to eliminate them
   
2. the entire solo Q system is designed around identifying every player's role to balance the team...by role. do you not see how this defeats the matchmaking system (sometimes to the detriment of the hybrid)?
   

 

mind you, there's nothing wrong with stance swapping...which is the equivalent and pretty much the effectiveness of off healing. but to spec up the tree for it...yeah. iunno. skill being equal, having that guy who can heal moderately well or tossing out a free guard w/o the full sacrifice in dps that that guard would normally entail...it's pretty big.

[TezMoney]

You mean the non-existent dps ops, non-existent tankassins or the healers who spend bugger all time in stealth and do **** all with stealth?

 

Sure why not.

 

Maybe infiltrate would need to be re-worked into something a bit less *********** stupid but other than that most people can do basic maths. If you can't see one member then there's a stealther about you should be watching for.

 

Wow your server is very different than mine apparently. I see an abundance of all those things, plus dps sins. Arena's are short and reason they give you so much time before the match starts is to strategize on how to take on the opposing team. Being prepared for what you face makes for a better competitive match over all. Basically what you want is a cluster**** in the first round, followed by 1 or 2 more effective rounds.

 

The reason stealth get an advantages is you don't know what stealth they have, and waist precious seconds figuring it out can cost you a lot in an arena

Edited February 26, 2014 by TezMoney

[Macroeconomics]

I've lost count of the amount of times its 4v4 dps only,then find out the sage on the other side is healer hybrid with another dps in tankstance with tank gear guarding him.

 

Wait you are complaining about this?! Puleezeeee. How about complaining about the exploit where a dps in dps stance can still guard a healer? This game has so many broken rules/exploits. I think they need to fix all those before they launch upon a crusade vs. hybrids. And just for the record I use a 36 pt main tree toon for ranked.

[cashogy_reborn]

"Real spec" - Really?

 

Do you want to force everyone into playing one of 3 specs per class?

 

Whats wrong with some creativity?

 

Maybe some people find more enjoyment in playing hybrids, find them more suited to their playstyle, or are just plain more effective? If someone wants to make a tradeoff, let them.

 

Arguably, locking stances would be a better solution to prevent people from tanking in DPS spec and getting queued as DPS. So a DPS spec in tank stance would be queued as Tank and be locked into tank stance in the arena.

 

As for hybrid heals, I think the tradeoff of DPS for healing compensates for itself. They cant be doing both healing and damage at the same time the way a tank stance can guard and do damage at the same time.

 

Because in Ranked you need to be able to reach the full potential of your class. Specs that work well in Regs dont necessarily work well in Ranked.

 

And like I said in that post, if you queue as a DPS/Heals Hybrid under the DPS tag, and then get put on a 3DPS/1Heals team, you have just significantly gimped the chances of your team winning. The same can happen with Tank/DPS hybrid players (ie two nights ago I was in a 3 dps/1 heals match where the other team had 2 tank/dps hybrid players. they lost b/c they simply could not put up enough DPS to kill anyone on our team, and we beat them through attrition).

 

If you are queuing for Ranked you should be doing everything in your power to help your team win, whether that be spec, gear, tactics, etc. If you arent going to do that, please leave the queues to those of us that will.

[foxmob]

Dps being able to guard is a very powerful advantage, as is dps being able to heal. It isn't unusual to see 4 dps who sync queued and have heals and guard, sometimes the other dps is guarded as well. This nullifies, to some degree, the other team's focus.

As I mentioned previously, Bioware took pains to handicap PTs for doing that, but some unknown reason were oblivious to other hybrids.

 

those weren't hybrids. they were full middle tree. it was just a really silly oversight on the dev's part to not tie the most powerful attack of tactics/ap to the high energy cell.

[Cordorian]

Just one question are people here complaining about stance dancing as well?

Like full deception sin, vengeance jugg in tank stance guarding someone in DPS gear?

From all i know and my experience there really is not bigger issue with that (after vanguard thingy was removed)

You leave out a lot of survivability not having the right tree and not having the right skill points... and by the wrong stance you sacrifice a lot of dps as well.

It only works in short phases, but you don't have the real damage mitigation of a proper tank.

You can die quickly just from guarding.

With actual hybrids it is tricky, since a lot of tanking tree seem more designed around PvE where high threat ability make a key of your rotation and those tend to be the one high in trees, those are relatively absolutely useless in PvP. So sometimes it is seems more beneficial to invest a significant amount of skill points in a dps tree. I don't really know how to fight this.

 

For scouperatives there is no playable and seriously usefull healing/dps hybrid, you need the full healing tree to do some healing after all.

 

Sorcs still have the bubble stun thingy, but it should be gimped both dps and even more healing wise. People still use it because it has a bit better survivability than full healing (or at least they think so)

 

dont really know about mercs.

 

so from the healing side i don't really see there is a massive benefit.

 

Some already pointed out that this is hybrids are more less self gimping now.

[NathanielStarr]

Hybrid tanks are too good though, you get a lot of use out of taunt and guard without having to take much of the tank trees at all.

[DarrelK]

Lol. Hybrid players always take a massive risk, if they end up in 2 dps 1 tank 1 healer match, they are screwed. Tank hybrids are good only for 3 dps 1 healer, heals hybrids are good only for 4 dps matches... if they get lucky enough to get a tank hybrid with them, otherwise they are essentially useless, especially if the other team has brains. Edited February 26, 2014 by DarrelK

[Cordorian]

Lol. Hybrid players always take a massive risk, if they end up in 2 dps 1 tank 1 healer match, they are screwed. Tank hybrids are good only for 3 dps 1 healer, heals hybrids are good only for 4 dps matches... if they get lucky enough to get a tank hybrid with them, otherwise they are essentially useless, especially if the other team has brains.

 

I mean the meta with the slightly broken vanguarg fake tank was cc the healer burn the tank and it worked in grouped ranked:P

[DarrelK]

That vanguard tank WAS OP as ****

[madtycoon]

They just need to remove these outdated talent trees and replace them with spec choice with baseline abilities and universal class talent trees. This would let the developers tie things like guard to tank specs only and would allow for talent reallocation before matches.

 

Example -

Sage picks Seer spec (gets all the baseline seer abilities by selecting this spec) healing trance, salvation, rejuvenation, cleanse, resplendence, etc.

 

Now picks talents

 

Talent tree for sage would be something like this: (for example)

level 10 tier - egress or reduced damage taken while rooted or reduce cd on sprint

level 20 tier - bubble stun or stronger shields or reduced cooldown on shield debuff

level 30 tier - knockback root or reduced cooldown on stun or added range on stun

level 40 tier - barrier resets sprint or barrier heals you for x amount or barrier has reduced cooldown

stuff like that

 

Before a warzone or arena players would not be able to switch specs, but they could switch out talent choices. Say you're a sage and you are facing a bunch of melee, pick up knockback root. Say you are facing a bunch of range, select added range on stun.

 

This completely removes hybrids from the game and makes things easier to balance, but still gives players spec versatility. It also makes the game require more skill, because now you have to identify what talents people might be playing.

 

This also makes low level play a lot better. Because then sages for example would start with healing trance and resplendence once they pick seer at level 10. Some less crucial talents/abilities you could still gain by leveling, like salvation. They also need to remove spell ranks. Completely unnecessary.

[Aerilas]

Lol. Hybrid players always take a massive risk, if they end up in 2 dps 1 tank 1 healer match, they are screwed. Tank hybrids are good only for 3 dps 1 healer, heals hybrids are good only for 4 dps matches... if they get lucky enough to get a tank hybrid with them, otherwise they are essentially useless, especially if the other team has brains.

 

Maybe, but you forget that for 1 healer-tank game you get at least 10 4dps games. Tanks are rare in solo ranked. It's VERY easy to shoot to high rating in the healer hybrid sorcs are using. It's an easywin spec.

 

Also, being a healer hybrid shouldn't gimp your chances in a healergame. Most healers can't outheal the damage from 3enemy DPS and the extra healing should work in your favor to stay alive. And if you're half decent you can put out quite some damage aswell while you're not healing.

[Capt_Beers]

They just need to remove these outdated talent trees and replace them with spec choice with baseline abilities and universal class talent trees. This would let the developers tie things like guard to tank specs only and would allow for talent reallocation before matches.

 

Example -

Sage picks Seer spec (gets all the baseline seer abilities by selecting this spec) healing trance, salvation, rejuvenation, cleanse, resplendence, etc.

 

Now picks talents

 

Talent tree for sage would be something like this: (for example)

level 10 tier - egress or reduced damage taken while rooted or reduce cd on sprint

level 20 tier - bubble stun or stronger shields or reduced cooldown on shield debuff

level 30 tier - knockback root or reduced cooldown on stun or added range on stun

level 40 tier - barrier resets sprint or barrier heals you for x amount or barrier has reduced cooldown

stuff like that

 

Before a warzone or arena players would not be able to switch specs, but they could switch out talent choices. Say you're a sage and you are facing a bunch of melee, pick up knockback root. Say you are facing a bunch of range, select added range on stun.

 

This completely removes hybrids from the game and makes things easier to balance, but still gives players spec versatility. It also makes the game require more skill, because now you have to identify what talents people might be playing.

 

This also makes low level play a lot better. Because then sages for example would start with healing trance and resplendence once they pick seer at level 10. Some less crucial talents/abilities you could still gain by leveling, like salvation. They also need to remove spell ranks. Completely unnecessary.

 

WoW is that way >>>>>

[Capt_Beers]

they need to move innervate or healing trance up the tree at least 1 tier so that the hybrid is nerfed. Its becoming a total pass in the ***.

 

Then they would have to do the same for every spec. It wouldn't be fair to have only one spec get there second tree ability 5 levels later than every other spec.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Capt_Beers