Korithras Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Not asking for more damage, just give us a better benefit from expertise or something so we don't die so easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 No, we dont need more survivability. Our largest PvP related weakness is reliance on cast/channel and too few ways to counter interrupts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 No, we dont need more survivability. Our largest PvP related weakness is reliance on cast/channel and too few ways to counter interrupts. Fully agree. Survivability is on a perfectly acceptable level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidsyrup Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 No, we dont need more survivability. Our largest PvP related weakness is reliance on cast/channel and too few ways to counter interrupts. This. I have no problems staying alive....except for when my heals are interrupted. And on my DPS I've got no issues. Just came out of a VS on my Pyro Merc where I survived a great many times (4 I believe) against at least 3 players, including a scrapper, until the doors opened. A good 30 seconds. Hydraulic Overrides is an amazing tool, I suggest using it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 No, we dont need more survivability. Our largest PvP related weakness is reliance on cast/channel and too few ways to counter interrupts. A thousand times this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Just give to my pyro 30m rocket jump as pure escape ability (not like intercede or force jump). Well, or buff my running speed once more. Edited February 18, 2014 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korithras Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 I have to disagree with you guys. I wear a full set of pvp gear and yet I might as well be going into battle naked with how fast I get burned down. I don't pvp as a healer (because commando/merc heals are a sad joke, no offense) but as assault specialist/pyrotech I have plenty of run and gun capability. My issue is that my health just drops so damn fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Dont know what to tell you, other than you are incorrect in your assessment of Mando/Merc strengths and weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missandei Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Not asking for more damage, just give us a better benefit from expertise or something so we don't die so easily? «Ok. now we have all the abilities to deal with any other class.. We can now running around laughing at 2-3 enemies that trying to kill us.. But.. we are still dying under the focus fire from 4-5 enemies. So. We need something to be competetive and could onehandedly win the WZ.. Give us some ability that will one-shot any target.» Edited February 18, 2014 by Missandei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByeToWoW Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I have to disagree with you guys. I wear a full set of pvp gear and yet I might as well be going into battle naked with how fast I get burned down. I don't pvp as a healer (because commando/merc heals are a sad joke, no offense) but as assault specialist/pyrotech I have plenty of run and gun capability. My issue is that my health just drops so damn fast. 1: If you are not playing in a premade, and are facing a premade, you will notice your health drop fast, regardless of Class or Spec that you choose to play as. 2: If 1 doesn't apply, then it is your job to not be one the front lines. Let the Melee do that. Also, ensure you are grouped with competent people you can rely on, and communicate with. This doesn't require heals or a Guard. Merely communicating with teammates (vie voice if possible) can change a match to your favor very quickly. 3: Stick with instant casts as much as you can to allow you to run more. If you are worried about that health bar, your Kolto Fart™, buffed with 2 points in your middle tree and with 13 points in your healing tree, will allow you to heal on-the-go while still keeping some semblance of damage output from either DPS tree. Switching to the healing cyclinder/cell will allow you to self heal, albeit minimally, for no resource cost. Switch to this cell (when able to) when out of ammo or full of heat to keep yourself and/or your teammates topped off while regenerating. My best suggestion is to ensure you have good situational awareness of your surroundings and do everything in your power to keep at range. Stealthies will ensure you can't do that however. The life of Rock, Paper, and Scissors. Edited February 18, 2014 by ByeToWoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolzhard Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Signed. And anyone who says anything to the contrary is full of it or does not actually PVP as a Commando. And no your experience in your pre-made is not valid. Any arena and its "Target the Commando!" because he's going to hit the ground like a wet sack. Unless, of course, there's an op healer on your team then you're targeted second. And with all these operative stealthers? Who do they target? The commando because he's going down like a paper doll. I've learnt to use this to my advantage in arena's because I know I'm going to be targeted first. I blow every cooldown, use every bit of cc and resort to gymnastics that the game mechanics are not designed to support and then with a bit of luck by the time they eventually burn me down they've lost a player or two^^ It sucks having to be the first down though. And it sucks that its pretty much accepted that the commando is going to be first down. Outside of arena's it better with space to move but still you can hear all the juggs and mara's and operatives crow with glee, "Easy Kill!". And to any ******s that suggest its a l2p issue, up yours. Heavy Armor? The irony is heavy with that concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klham Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 No, we dont need more survivability. Our largest PvP related weakness is reliance on cast/channel and too few ways to counter interrupts. Yes, this. This is the reason why our damage output drops ridiculously when under focus. And it's the root cause for why we're marked out first for focus fire (provided no sage is present on the team). Any class can be globaled, it just happens to us more predictably at the outset due to the above-noted reason. Every other issue is just minor tweaks by comparison imho (shorter cooldowns, slightly less constrained ammo management, more reliable proc to reset our dps rotation). Otherwise, we're in a reasonably good place right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etilik Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Signed. And anyone who says anything to the contrary is full of it or does not actually PVP as a Commando. And no your experience in your pre-made is not valid. Any arena and its "Target the Commando!" because he's going to hit the ground like a wet sack. Unless, of course, there's an op healer on your team then you're targeted second. And with all these operative stealthers? Who do they target? The commando because he's going down like a paper doll. I've learnt to use this to my advantage in arena's because I know I'm going to be targeted first. I blow every cooldown, use every bit of cc and resort to gymnastics that the game mechanics are not designed to support and then with a bit of luck by the time they eventually burn me down they've lost a player or two^^ It sucks having to be the first down though. And it sucks that its pretty much accepted that the commando is going to be first down. Outside of arena's it better with space to move but still you can hear all the juggs and mara's and operatives crow with glee, "Easy Kill!". And to any ******s that suggest its a l2p issue, up yours. Heavy Armor? The irony is heavy with that concept. I totally agree, I've an Arsenal and starting ignoring the Damage dealt figures and considering how much damage I can take before die as a good indicator of my performance: I'm satisfied when I'm above 60kg at round (without a healer). Please note that as Arsenal the efficiency of kiting is significantly reduces as Arsenal can't slow the target down. btw why TM can't have the same slow effect of IM? I'm really questioning to myself if play a Damage Dealer in that ways makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomorefat Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 «Ok. now we have all the abilities to deal with any other class.. We can now running around laughing at 2-3 enemies that trying to kill us.. But.. we are still dying under the focus fire from 4-5 enemies. So. We need something to be competetive and could onehandedly win the WZ.. Give us some ability that will one-shot any target.» QFT Funny how people can't realise that if you're in a 2v1, you'll most likely go down if the 2s are equally skilled players as you are. No way a class should be able to stalemate infinitely or win a 2v1, vs equally geared / skilled players. Even healers. In MMOs some classes are always better than others but that's the point of balance patches. Don't be mad if your class is getting changes, it's the nature of the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Basing your evaluation of a classes survivability purely on pugged Arenas whilst discounting all premades is the height of silliness. Those of us who have been PvPing for a long time on Commandos and Mercs at the highest level for the most part agree that our problems are with the ability to lay down healing/damage under pressure (due to interrupted casts), not how much damage we can take. Edited February 18, 2014 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleSChen Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I've an Arsenal If they gave arsenal more of a rotation instead of "SPAM TRACER MISSILE!!!" I think people would stop targeting you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDanski Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 And anyone who says anything to the contrary is full of it or does not actually PVP as a Commando. I'm not saying that life as a healer when focused is not difficult in general, and I try to stray away from nonsensical "l2p" comments, but I have switched to my merc healer from my operative last patch because of how much damage I can take. On my op, sure I can pop evasion and vanish when SHTF and I'm left alone vs 2-3 if we are getting out classed, but if I'm discovered, or out of energy, its pretty much game over, and quickly (especially if shield, adrenal, stuns are on cd). On my merc though...I seem to have more survivability when taking direct damage (most likely due to armor) and have used LoS, our movement break, pushback, etc to hold off 2-3 people on a node while our dps make it back fresh. I can do this on the op too with clever rolls and such, but I still don't feel as proficient as with my Merc. I may have 1-3 deaths per match on my merc vs 0-2 on the operative simply because I can't reset the encounter, but in terms of damage mitigation and the tools to be disruptive and keep the objective going longer, I'll take my merc in an open battle field any day. I do have to be far more aware of my distance and environment vs my operative, but thats the trade off. And if your near a node and you get 2-3 people suddenly focus you? Good, kite them as far away as possible while your team focuses the objective. If they are dumb enough to chase you down further and further away from the map's objective, its worth your death for the win of the match (if your team is smart enough to notice the opportunity). If you use your deaths as a means to win that match, then I'll take getting focused and dying the whole time as a welcome trade off. I'd have to agree with those that have stated the obvious, that 2v1 with competent players on the other end is usually a tko, regardless of skill or classes involved. Still fun though when you do get the newer folks who your able to 4v1 hold a node for 20-30 second or more, lol. Nothing but love for mercs atm :-) But then again, thats just like...my opinion, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Signed. And anyone who says anything to the contrary is full of it or does not actually PVP as a Commando. And no your experience in your pre-made is not valid. Any arena and its "Target the Commando!" because he's going to hit the ground like a wet sack. Unless, of course, there's an op healer on your team then you're targeted second. And with all these operative stealthers? Who do they target? The commando because he's going down like a paper doll. I've learnt to use this to my advantage in arena's because I know I'm going to be targeted first. I blow every cooldown, use every bit of cc and resort to gymnastics that the game mechanics are not designed to support and then with a bit of luck by the time they eventually burn me down they've lost a player or two^^ It sucks having to be the first down though. And it sucks that its pretty much accepted that the commando is going to be first down. Outside of arena's it better with space to move but still you can hear all the juggs and mara's and operatives crow with glee, "Easy Kill!". And to any ******s that suggest its a l2p issue, up yours. Heavy Armor? The irony is heavy with that concept. Are you complaining about pugged reg arenas and or yolo queue arenas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If they gave arsenal more of a rotation instead of "SPAM TRACER MISSILE!!!" I think people would stop targeting you. Arsenal rotation has included multiple abilities for a long time now. The days of getting max DPS with one button are long gone. It may not be a complex rotation, but it is also not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarenergy Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Actually they have better survivability now than they have ever had before. I notice this whenever I play my merc healer. Unless I have two or more people actually trying to kill me then I'm not dying. Which is really how a healer is supposed to be. As for the dps mercs, I think the issue there is cast times on a lot of their abilities. I do see a lot of good ones though getting a lot of damage, but I guess that is because they were rarely getting targeted by enemies during the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandoforlife Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Basing your evaluation of a classes survivability purely on pugged Arenas whilst discounting all premades is the height of silliness. Those of us who have been PvPing for a long time on Commandos and Mercs at the highest level for the most part agree that our problems are with the ability to lay down healing/damage under pressure (due to interrupted casts), not how much damage we can take. Basically this. Survivability is not the issue here. Arsenal has good survivability talents, and Bodyguard is easily the tankiest healer in the game. Pyro is arguable, but I think it's decent enough. As many have said in this thread, it's the reliance on casts and how much we're shut down under focus that's the issue. I run Pyro in arenas now because I feel like I can't be shut down as easily. I'm not sure what BW could do to reduce our reliance on casts, but reducing the CD on Power Surge is a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Never going to happen op. Ive been a commando sense day one. Bioware loves nerfing mercs/commandos. They love using us as cannon fodder. This is also why http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=722991 Believe it or not they actually believe this bull. Survival over cast, or cast over survival which one. I think at range we do pretty good but when a operative/scoundrel and assassin/shadow comes out of the wood work we might as well put up a sign and say please kill us as many times as you like. Knights and warriors not so bad as long as we have the net up and running, but not on cool down. On the cast issue I would like to be able to get my barriers and my one small heal with just two grav rounds or tracer missiles. Spare me the pyro bs. It does not have nearly as much damage compared to arsenal and gunnery. As far as survival in melee the only thing I can think of is give our hydraulic override the ability to be immune to all crowd control while active but increase the cool down slightly. That could be too extreme. Then again the guardian/juggs have a quick cool down on a primary interrupt they can use at any time on mercs/commandos trying to get their abilities to kick off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSeC Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 2: If 1 doesn't apply, then it is your job to not be one the front lines. Let the Melee do that. . LOL! If they keep nerfing melee, see how much "front-line" you end up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yes, commandos/mercs need survivability buff. Look on ranked leaderboards - only guardians/juggs and mandos/mercs in bottom. Troopers (mandos + vanguards) /BH are only 2 classes without any escape ability. Every other class have at least one escape way (shadows/sins - ever 2 escapes), but not troopers. Hold the line it is not escape, it is haste, not escape. All classes have haste in any form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoskiCesiu Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 No, we dont need more survivability. Our largest PvP related weakness is reliance on cast/channel and too few ways to counter interrupts. But exactly our survival is directly connected with the interruption/cast/channel! My mando heal: - primary slill medical probe and second advanced medical probe need ~2 sec to cast. - instants: kolto bomb - 6 sec cooldown, bacta inf. - 21 sec (18 sec with bonus) - this is to long to be enough survival. No immune to interrupt = our death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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