Can we stop with the L2P excuse and focus on the real Nerf problems

[angel_dust]

I'm tired of people's excuse for everything is L2P (ex: Smash will be fine after 2.7, just learn to play).

When in reality if you put a skilled pt pyro against a skilled smash marauder/jugg, the pt will win 10 out of 10 times.

Not only pt's but 90% of the other dps classes will destroy smashers after 2.7.

Learning your class and rotations is an important role in pvp but no matter how skilled you are in rage, if you come up against an equally skilled person using another dps tree or class, you are pretty much screwed.

 

So like I said, learning to play is important but it won't do you much playing against another player who knows how to play. Especially after 2.7 if you keep playing smash or concealment.

 

 

Due to the upcoming changes in 2.7

I myself just play combat/carnage on my sent/marauder

Vigilance on my jugg

And both my operative and scoundrel are healers now.

But from talking to ppl and reading the forums, the only class worth playing after 2.7 will be lethality/dirty fighting snipers/slingers.

 

Talk about using god mode on a class.

[Frenesi]

You are just asking for L2P answer, you know?

 

Also, aren't PT pyros considered one of best PVP specs in game? To the point where devs can't make them better in PVE couse it will make them OP here?

[sithBracer]

I'm tired of people's excuse for everything is L2P (ex: Smash will be fine after 2.7, just learn to play).

When in reality if you put a skilled pt pyro against a skilled smash marauder/jugg, the pt will win 10 out of 10 times.

Not only pt's but 90% of the other dps classes will destroy smashers after 2.7.

Learning your class and rotations is an important role in pvp but no matter how skilled you are in rage, if you come up against an equally skilled person using another dps tree or class, you are pretty much screwed.

 

Well aside from the fact that 1 v 1 means nothing, smash is not different 1 v 1 than it was before. Only big difference is that people around him won't eat a 10k autocrit smash but will instead get hit for 5k.

 

Due to the upcoming changes in 2.7

I myself just play combat/carnage on my sent/marauder

Vigilance on my jugg

And both my operative and scoundrel are healers now.

 

Carnage is a great spec, vigilance is ok, but scoundrel healers will be at the bottom of the healer list after 2.7.

 

But from talking to ppl and reading the forums, the only class worth playing after 2.7 will be lethality/dirty fighting snipers/slingers.

 

Engineering is better, but lethality is still amazing.

[MotorCityMan]

Well aside from the fact that 1 v 1 means nothing, smash is not different 1 v 1 than it was before. Only big difference is that people around him won't eat a 10k autocrit smash but will instead get hit for 5k.

 

 

 

 

Crit is 50% added, so people around will still get hit for 6500+. Still the best AoE in the game. Plus as you point out, 1v1 isn't effected.

 

Oh the drama,.........the drama.

[Evolixe]

Crit is 50% added, so people around will still get hit for 6500+. Still the best AoE in the game. Plus as you point out, 1v1 isn't effected.

 

Oh the drama,.........the drama.

 

Except that Smash has a surge boost and that it crits for 200% of normal damage and not 150%.

[MotorCityMan]

Except that Smash has a surge boost and that it crits for 200% of normal damage and not 150%.

Hmm surge boost is 30%. I have to investigate this, now I'm curious.

[sithBracer]

Hmm surge boost is 30%. I have to investigate this, now I'm curious.

 

ok lets say it will be 5-6kish, still more than enough pressure on the team.

[TonyDragonflame]

Nerf PT DPS por favor

 

Nerf DPS Sorcs into ground

[Brunner_Venda]

Fact is, PT pyros aren't OP at all. This is an LTP issue, because you are just that bad.

 

Another poster put it just right:

 

The only class that has lower dps is the Assassin. Every other class has 1 tree doing more DPS. Saying that one of our trees has less dps than the other is... strange... as its intended, AP is our AOE tree, just like Rage is the Marauder AOE tree, they are not designed to do the best single-target DPS.

 

As for Active Cd`s...

 

Pyro:

Reactive shield = 25% damage resistance, lasts 15s. Needs talents to reflect damage. 2M CD

Diversion = 25% chance to resist attacks for 6 seconds, needs 2 points

Hold the Line = 6s movement impairing immunity

Adrenaline Rush = 8s of 30% damage resistance, tries to get back HP to 35% however is 2+ people are attacking you you will still usually die. Needs talents to make it usefull.

Harpoon = 45s CD, brings the target to you.

 

Marauder:

Cloak of Pain(Marauder) = 20% damage resistance, lasts up to 30s(as long as you get hit, basically as long as you need it), reflects damage by default, 1M cd.

Saber Ward = 50% ranged/melee defense + 25% tech/force reduction, 3M CD

Intimidating Road = 6seconds AOE CC, similar to the hated Flash Bang, 1m CD

Force Camouflage = Stealth for 4 seconds, does not break on damage and reduces damage taken by 50% + increases movement speed by 30%, 45s CD

Obfuscate = reduces target ranged/melee accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds, 1m CD

Undying Rage = 99% damage reduction, reduces you hp by 50% when it ends, 2m CD

Force Charge = 15s CD, brings you to the target.

On top of this Marauder can for example get 50% movement speed increase due to Predation, with an amazing up-time.

 

 

As for armor reduction, while Marauders wear Medium Armor and should have 25% damage reduction, they have talents in every tree that either bump their mitigation to 31% or reduce their target`s damage by 5%, meaning they have the same reduction as an PT Pyro, but with a lot more defensive CD`s. A LOT MORE.

 

And they do a lot more DPS too....

 

How is that in any way fair or balanced? It is not.

 

 

EDIT: As for burst, Carnage Marauders get the best burst in the game...

 

So, pyros are so far behind marauders it isn't even funny.

 

We have the second lowest damage next to assassins.

 

And you want to nerf us? Hilarious. The problem is you if you can't win.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Brunner_Venda

[Brunner_Venda]

Lol PTs have slows on almost every ability and can spam their HtL every 30 seconds, it's almost impossible for a melee class to get close to a PT DPS. They also wear heavy armor and can use their utility regularly.

 

They're going to be the new Smashers come 2.7 and then I'll be here saying I told you so.

 

I'll keep posting this until you bads understand how far ahead marauders are.

 

The only class that has lower dps is the Assassin. Every other class has 1 tree doing more DPS. Saying that one of our trees has less dps than the other is... strange... as its intended, AP is our AOE tree, just like Rage is the Marauder AOE tree, they are not designed to do the best single-target DPS.

 

As for Active Cd`s...

 

Pyro:

Reactive shield = 25% damage resistance, lasts 15s. Needs talents to reflect damage. 2M CD

Diversion = 25% chance to resist attacks for 6 seconds, needs 2 points

Hold the Line = 6s movement impairing immunity

Adrenaline Rush = 8s of 30% damage resistance, tries to get back HP to 35% however is 2+ people are attacking you you will still usually die. Needs talents to make it usefull.

Harpoon = 45s CD, brings the target to you.

 

Marauder:

Cloak of Pain(Marauder) = 20% damage resistance, lasts up to 30s(as long as you get hit, basically as long as you need it), reflects damage by default, 1M cd.

Saber Ward = 50% ranged/melee defense + 25% tech/force reduction, 3M CD

Intimidating Road = 6seconds AOE CC, similar to the hated Flash Bang, 1m CD

Force Camouflage = Stealth for 4 seconds, does not break on damage and reduces damage taken by 50% + increases movement speed by 30%, 45s CD

Obfuscate = reduces target ranged/melee accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds, 1m CD

Undying Rage = 99% damage reduction, reduces you hp by 50% when it ends, 2m CD

Force Charge = 15s CD, brings you to the target.

On top of this Marauder can for example get 50% movement speed increase due to Predation, with an amazing up-time.

 

 

As for armor reduction, while Marauders wear Medium Armor and should have 25% damage reduction, they have talents in every tree that either bump their mitigation to 31% or reduce their target`s damage by 5%, meaning they have the same reduction as an PT Pyro, but with a lot more defensive CD`s. A LOT MORE.

 

And they do a lot more DPS too....

 

How is that in any way fair or balanced? It is not.

 

 

EDIT: As for burst, Carnage Marauders get the best burst in the game...

[sithBracer]

Lol your main must be a PT DPS so of course ur gonna be like that. PT DPS will be the next class on the nerf bat bc they are a class that needs a nerf.

 

Pretty sure that will be the sorc or op dps again.

[sithBracer]

PTs however have heavy armor and their DCDs surpass a Sorc's tenfold. Slows, pulls, to prevent a Sorc from kiting them. They'll spam their DOTs and HtL to prevent being slowed by a Sorc and in 3 hits the Sorc will go down.

 

It doesn't matter, they will still nerf sorc or op dps. It's what BW does. They gave a small boost to ops just so they could take it away and completely crush our hopes, now sorc will be next when BW sees that all they did was promote hybrids in both PvP and PvE.

Edited February 16, 2014 by sithBracer

[TheSupaCoopa]

Duran'del here:

 

The "God Mode" that snipers has is only 3s. The funniest part of this is it becomes a regular evasion if they leave cover and back into it. Just hide behind an object. They won't be able to do anything.

[Brunner_Venda]

PTs however have heavy armor and their DCDs surpass a Sorc's tenfold. Slows, pulls, to prevent a Sorc from kiting them. They'll spam their DOTs and HtL to prevent being slowed by a Sorc and in 3 hits the Sorc will go down.

 

Maras have 25% armor, and talents to boost that to 30% or more in every tree (or reduce a targets damage by 5%, which does the same thing).

 

They have more defensive cooldowns.

 

They have higher damage by a long shot.

 

Carnage has the highest burst of any melee class.

 

Tell me again how PT's are overpowered, when they are inferior in every single way to marauders? That means if a Mara plays well, there is zero chance for a PT to win?

 

If PT becomes the new FOTM I'll be surprised. I'm rolling a carnage Mara now.

[MasterBLASTERpl]

So like I said, learning to play is important but it won't do you much playing against another player who knows how to play. Especially after 2.7 if you keep playing two former FOTM classes.

Fixed

 

 

Due to the upcoming changes in 2.7

I myself just play combat/carnage on my sent/marauder

Vigilance on my jugg

And both my operative and scoundrel are healers now.

But from talking to ppl and reading the forums, the only class worth playing after 2.7 will be lethality/dirty fighting snipers/slingers.

 

Talk about using god mode on a class.

Let's talk about numbers - mayby about the 4200 number, does it ring any bell? C'mon, it surely does, concealment dps, alonge with boatload of dcd. Or maybe - why does the one class have a auto aoe crit that can hit for 10k and it can be repeated after 15seks if not less? And this goes for how long?

 

Bo ok. I just tank every single nerf that sorc/sage get, every single buff for any other classes. I just deal with it. But the 2.6 was just enough for me. If not the upcoming 2.7 changes i would be now passing the low bracket with scoundrel, op and sentinel (guess what skill tree...). And from what I've saw in the lowbies pvp - i wasn't alone with it, coz many people took that road. If BW didn't do something with this, in 2 mouths pvp would be flooded with rage maras and concealment/medicine ops. I'm just happy with this course of action.

 

And on a side note:

Half of the page buffs (2.6 patch) + one-liner nerf (one less stun - 2.7 patch info) = broken class

OP healer for eternity + one-liner adjustment (not even nerf, 2.7 patch info) = broken class

Wow such logic

Edited February 16, 2014 by MasterBLASTERpl

[Skinnychalk]

Lol PTs have slows on almost every ability and can spam their HtL every 30 seconds, it's almost impossible for a melee class to get close to a PT DPS. They also wear heavy armor and can use their utility regularly.

 

They're going to be the new Smashers come 2.7 and then I'll be here saying I told you so.

 

Sub'd just so I could post on this thread because you're beyond stupid.

 

Slows on "almost" every ability I had no idea flameburst was "almost" every ability learn the class thanx.

I had no idea heavy armour meant something in PvP go back to PvE kthx.

Hold the line every 30 seconds? Leap/Charge every 15 seconds not our fault you leap to us when were using Hold the Line is it? L2P.

 

Lol your main must be a PT DPS so of course ur gonna be like that. PT DPS will be the next class on the nerf bat bc they are a class that needs a nerf.

 

What? You also want a buff for that class DPS wise?

 

FOTM rerollers will be going PT DPS next as the new Smashers and I'll be here saying I told you so due to their ridiculous DCDs and ability to stay in both melee and ranged.

 

Yeah Pyro PT been my main DPS since launch.

It wont get nerfed again after the insane DPS nerf in 2.0.

Yeah the Armour pen on Railshot back from pre 2.0 would be lovely other than that no buffs are needed.

You're really bad I hope you l2p otherwise quit because you're garbage in PvP.

 

 

Edit: Pyrotech DPS is still as garbage as it was since the 2.0 nerfs other than 2k upfront dmg added to Thermal Detonator L2P please thanks QQers of Pyro or are these posts delayed from 1.7?

Edited February 16, 2014 by Skinnychalk

[sithBracer]

Duran'del here:

 

The "God Mode" that snipers has is only 3s. The funniest part of this is it becomes a regular evasion if they leave cover and back into it. Just hide behind an object. They won't be able to do anything.

 

Ok first, why do you always keep saying "duran'del here"? Seriously, no one knows (nor cares) who you are. Second melee classes don't always have the luxury of hiding behind an object. Snipers were already a pain in the behind to kill on my shadow and op, this will now just add to it (and we're supposed to be their counter). But yes, on my sorc they are easy to kill if there is an object to LoS close by.

[TheSupaCoopa]

Lol your main must be a PT DPS so of course ur gonna be like that. PT DPS will be the next class on the nerf bat bc they are a class that needs a nerf.

 

What? You also want a buff for that class DPS wise?

 

FOTM rerollers will be going PT DPS next as the new Smashers and I'll be here saying I told you so due to their ridiculous DCDs and ability to stay in both melee and ranged.

 

Ridiculous DCDs? The only ridiculous thing about PTs DCDs in the lack of them.

 

Energy Shield: 25% DR for 15s.

 

Kolto overload: self-heal for 8s, only usable at or below 35% HP, does not heal above 35% HP.

 

That's all we have. And they're not even really good. They're just average DCDs.

[Skinnychalk]

Ridiculous DCDs? The only ridiculous thing about PTs DCDs in the lack of them.

 

Energy Shield: 25% DR for 15s.

 

Kolto overload: self-heal for 8s, only usable at or below 35% HP, does not heal above 35% HP.

 

That's all we have. And they're not even really good. They're just average DCDs.

 

I think the majority of the bads QQing is because in Pyrotech Kolto Overload when activated gives us 30% dmg reduction for the duration it heals us (8 seconds) but hey! Bioware finally did something okay towards Pyrotechs after the mass amount of nerfs we've received since lauch they nerfed our DPS hard and gave us an average defensive CD in return.

 

Just bad players QQing over anything that beats them in numbers on the scoreboards or 1v1s lol.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Skinnychalk

[Skinnychalk]

Like seriously, please.

 

Lets go find a video of a Anni rauder facerolling bads and call them OP lol.

 

l2p omg you're bad

[Brunner_Venda]

Guess your only other option is to result to insults. Awww.

 

I provided a full and detailed post on why PT DPS is OP and may become the next Smashers after the 2.7 balance changes. Like I said before I can't wait to be here on the forums saying I told you so.

 

Oh and I've never had any issues with any Marauder.

 

I provided a much better one.

 

The only class that has lower dps is the Assassin. Every other class has 1 tree doing more DPS. Saying that one of our trees has less dps than the other is... strange... as its intended, AP is our AOE tree, just like Rage is the Marauder AOE tree, they are not designed to do the best single-target DPS.

 

As for Active Cd`s...

 

Pyro:

Reactive shield = 25% damage resistance, lasts 15s. Needs talents to reflect damage. 2M CD

Diversion = 25% chance to resist attacks for 6 seconds, needs 2 points

Hold the Line = 6s movement impairing immunity

Adrenaline Rush = 8s of 30% damage resistance, tries to get back HP to 35% however is 2+ people are attacking you you will still usually die. Needs talents to make it usefull.

Harpoon = 45s CD, brings the target to you.

 

Marauder:

Cloak of Pain(Marauder) = 20% damage resistance, lasts up to 30s(as long as you get hit, basically as long as you need it), reflects damage by default, 1M cd.

Saber Ward = 50% ranged/melee defense + 25% tech/force reduction, 3M CD

Intimidating Road = 6seconds AOE CC, similar to the hated Flash Bang, 1m CD

Force Camouflage = Stealth for 4 seconds, does not break on damage and reduces damage taken by 50% + increases movement speed by 30%, 45s CD

Obfuscate = reduces target ranged/melee accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds, 1m CD

Undying Rage = 99% damage reduction, reduces you hp by 50% when it ends, 2m CD

Force Charge = 15s CD, brings you to the target.

On top of this Marauder can for example get 50% movement speed increase due to Predation, with an amazing up-time.

 

 

As for armor reduction, while Marauders wear Medium Armor and should have 25% damage reduction, they have talents in every tree that either bump their mitigation to 31% or reduce their target`s damage by 5%, meaning they have the same reduction as an PT Pyro, but with a lot more defensive CD`s. A LOT MORE.

 

And they do a lot more DPS too....

 

How is that in any way fair or balanced? It is not.

 

 

EDIT: As for burst, Carnage Marauders get the best burst in the game...

[ryuzo]

What's with the complaining about a single target DPS spec (PT Pyro) being better in 1v1 than an AoE DPS spec (Rage Mara/Jugg)?

 

Stop and think about it for a second... a SINGLE-TARGET DPS SPEC is better at 1v1 than an AOE DPS SPEC... why would an AoE DPS spec be expected to be amazing in 1v1 in the first place? By definition, it's built for groups to achieve it's full potential in the first place...

 

A big problem in this game is people approach balance incorrectly. They're expecting balance on a 1v1 scale, but that's not how PvP in a MMO should work. PvP in a MMO is a rock, paper, scissors world. Everything should have a counter, not necessarily be balanced for 1v1 play. MMOs are about group play, not 1v1s.

[Skinnychalk]

Guess your only other option is to result to insults. Awww.

 

I provided a full and detailed post on why PT DPS is OP and may become the next Smashers after the 2.7 balance changes. Like I said before I can't wait to be here on the forums saying I told you so.

 

Oh and I've never had any issues with any Marauder.

 

If you think Pyrotech is OP now wow I can't imagine the tears you would of shed if you ever played against a decent one pre 2.0 lmao wow.

 

Btw you provided nothing you copied and pasted a qq post from a bad who is commenting on one of the best Powertechs to play this game other than the vid being of him nuking garbage players which any class can do I see nothing OP about Pyrotech.

 

If I knew that your only problem was a l2p issue I wouldn't of even bothered to resub to post on this thread what a big disappointment you turned out to be /sigh

Edited February 16, 2014 by Skinnychalk

[Raansu]

Duran'del here:

 

The "God Mode" that snipers has is only 3s. The funniest part of this is it becomes a regular evasion if they leave cover and back into it. Just hide behind an object. They won't be able to do anything.

 

I more so find the buff hypocritical more than anything else. People complained so much about guarded by the force so they nerf it and now snipers are getting practically the same thing but since its tech/force its going to be immune to stuns + they already have entrench. People complained a lot about gbtf...wait till this goes live lol.

[Devilk]

Crit is 50% added, so people around will still get hit for 6500+. Still the best AoE in the game. Plus as you point out, 1v1 isn't effected.

 

Oh the drama,.........the drama.

 

No. Do you realize why smash hits for 9 to 10k? Because for one it gets buffs from shockwave which increase the damage by 100%, then the crit of 90% more damage is added. Everyone around you will eat 3-4k smashes mostly on the low 3k end because of the myriad of taunts, defensives and AoE reduction talents floating around.. Because non stacks smash hits for 2500 normal damage, add 50% for crit.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Devilk