Announced 2.7 changes discussion

[colemanron]

Hello Sorcerers!

 

Below you will find our current list of changes slated for Game Update 2.7, again this is not a comprehensive list of all changes and all changes are subject to change. Our goal with these changes was to address the classes survivability/viability along with some "quality of life" for Lightning. Here ya go:

 

• Force Barrier now has an additional effect. While you are protected by Force Barrier, charges will build up and grant Enduring Bastion. Enduring Bastion is a shield that absorbs an amount of damage based off the charges (1-4) that are present when Force Barrier ends. Enduring Bastion also grants immunity to interrupt and lasts for up to 5 seconds after Force Barrier ends.

 

Makes sense, this change will definitely help with getting away after Force Barrier ends. Only the amount of damage absorbed and practice will be able to tell if it's particularly useful though. With no numbers this is too early to judge.

 

 

• Polarity Shift will now make the caster immune to pushback along with interrupts.

 

Very good change, much needed especially for Corruption. Lightning however still has issues with 0% pushback protection on rotational abilities outside of Polarity Shift, which I believe would be a higher priority problem for the spec to address.

 

 

• Innervate is now immune to pushback.

 

PVP healers will be glad to hear, but Consumption is the root of their problems, so this alone will not be a gamechanger. I can hear PVE healers say: "Yeah, so what?"

 

 

• Lightning Barrage now has a 50%/100% chance to grant a Lightning Barrage charge when using Lightning Strike on a target affected by your Affliction. A Lightning Barrage charge causes your next Force Lightning to channel and tick twice as fast.

 

No internal cooldown anymore? Sounds overpowered. I will just assume it was left out by accident. Not a gamechanger but it sounds like a buff to Lightning's sustained DPS when it was not really necessary, as it's damage is where it should be, and QoL changes were never really needed in the reliability of the procs department. I believe 100% pushback protection on the Force Lightning channel consuming the proc when fully specced into Lightning Barrage were more welcome. Also if the lack of internal cooldown is intended, not only a typo, hybrid specs may emerge and start ruling for a long time to come.

 

 

• Lightning Storm now builds a charge whenever you deal damage with Lightning Strike, Thundering Blast, or Force Storm. At 2 charges, Chain Lightning's cooldown is reset and the next cast of Chain Lightning activates instantly and has no Force cost. This effect can only occur every 10 seconds.

 

Again, more consistency on a proc which never really was an issue. It seems building charges is the new black over at Bioware. Not that I mind, it may up sustained DPS by bit, while granting a more reliable attack to use on the move. Both are welcome changes.

 

 

• Wrath now builds up a charge whenever the Sorcerer deals damage with Force Lightning. At 3 charges, the next Lightning Strike or Crushing Darkness is cast instantly and deals 35% more damage.
  

 

Making Wrath more reliable is a great thing to do for Madness, however as I suggested in another thread earlier, this may lead to severe resource issues. Madness doesn't really have the tools to regenerate Force if the rotation is too Force negative, so incorporating more Lightning Strikes into the rotation may drain Sorcerers dry, and not even necessarily on the long run. I would still suggest the same I did before to prevent this: make Wrath lower the Force cost of the spell consuming it. Also this change alone, especially with no Force management changes, will probably not put Madness in a position to be equal to or above Lightning in single target sustained DPS, so Madness may require further adjustments.

 

 

These are my first impressions, feel free to chime in and speak your mind. Considering how according to Eric the list is not comprehensive and is subject to change the devs may even be actually listening this time around.

Edited February 13, 2014 by colemanron

[FrumpytheClown]

*First to respond*

Now, just from first to third read over, I am not totally impressed. Speaking from a Madness perspective I have to agree with the original poster, giving Madness Sorcs another quick cast does not really address the issues with resource management. It CAN be considered a step (albeit small) in the correct direction. Now, if they are going to address the Crit issue, then perhaps that might fix much of the crit reliant issues.

My issue is with Force Barrier. It just didn't need a fix/addition. It worked fine. Giving us another form of quick protection as we exit Force Barrier? Not needed.

And yes, building charges is the "new black" as the original poster stated. How about you make Lightning Burns more viable in combat? Lightning spec if done correct, just does NOT run out of Force, even during long fights. So why doesn't Madness have any GOOD resource management helper? Cost reductions? Quicker/Viable Force regeneration?

Finally, let's talk about our CCs? Did they EVER consider extending our Electrocute back to 30 meters? How about allowing us to cast Whirl Wind instantly again? How about making our Overload 360 again?

AND seeing as they have not posted their full list of class changes, perhaps there is more in the works. But as of yet, I am not impressed.

Edited February 13, 2014 by FrumpytheClown

[gurneyslabb]

I am happy with the lightning changes for both pve and pvp , hopefully it will sway people away from the one button spec atm . Really looking forward to this patch

[verfallen]

The hybrid fear is right on the head I think.

 

Roughly, whatever gain the upper lightning did might very well be offset by those better procs.

 

And whatever hybrid does happen, normally comes with a batnerf that screws all.

 

We'll see, at any rate its a bit soon to cry about it. But while I'm glad they DID address barrage being massively affected by 2,0 new crit ratings (just needed 7 major patches to figure it out) they still didn't address rotationnal changes that CD and FL are for lightning, and the pushback related to them.

 

However they DID made lightning probably one of the best dummy bashing spec out there, so probably metric will make us look beyond awesome at whacking our ships dummy. Youpididoo. 1,5 sec FL every 6 seconds or so unless they DID forget rate limit? CL procs being rotationnal?

 

As for madness, I do believe the 28/16 or something hybrid just became valid. The spec always had potential but was so hounded by RNG it was mostly used in pvp to pally the lockdown of lightning, and still keep some burst and whatnot.

 

So roughly, I feel like they had to fix small issues with very small changes, but they slapped an overhaul that might help in some place but will in the end create some issues, and bring us back to 1,2 days of the wrath powered CL and the batnerf that lasted 2 years, while still overlooking the most spec specific glaring issues (lightning pushback, madness force management (probably made worse by more LS))

Edited February 14, 2014 by verfallen

[AdrianDmitruk]

Buff our hybrid specs, Bioware will! (NOT referral scam)

 

Seriously though, each and every proposed modification to our talents occurs in the middle of our trees. Someone didn't think this through.

 

YES we need buffs. Yes I'll take what I can get. But speaking from my perspective as a PVP healer, the changes do nothing to make 36 point corruption remotely attractive--there is just as much useless filler between Innervate and Revivification as ever. Seriously, only Force Surge, the talent that speeds up Innervate (don't remember what it's called), and maybe Corrupted Speed are remotely useful. Conspiring Force could be, if the slow was buffed to actually be noticeable (especially against specs running around with passive 15% movement buff). And remember that in PVP the space between points 21 and 35 in our full tree STILL has to compete against bubblestun, which though nerfed, is still better in arenas than filler.

 

Contrast that to op heals where ops will gladly spend those points between 21 and 35 in their full heal tree, because those points are actually worth it (SIGNIFICANT buffs to their hots and surgical probe spam, rather than a measly 1% here and there? Yeah they'll take that).

 

About 10 talent points (at least) between Innervate and Reviv are useless enough to require a complete rework. That empty space in our tree would make an excellent place to give 36-point corruption any combination of CC (overload distance buff or slow attached to it, hello?), utility, or DR (prefer the first two as active abilities require more skill to play than passive DR) to make it desired in competitive play, WITHOUT buffing hybrids even more.

Edited February 14, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk

[warstory]

6 seconds on force lightning is good change because there is a slow attached to it and we need that to kite.

[AshlaBoga]

PvE Changes:

 

DPS: Slight buff

Heals: Innervate having no pushback really only matters on Operation wide AoE phases. And on those phases Revivification having a shorter CD would be a bigger help.

[Cempa]

Wrath: Each time FL deals damage...it ticks 3 times or they mean x3 independent casts?

[Aerilas]

Wrath: Each time FL deals damage...it ticks 3 times or they mean x3 independent casts?

 

Force Lightning has 3 ticks. At 3ticks it deals 3x damage giving you 3stacks so you can use Wrath.

 

Or you use Force Lightning for 2 ticks, break it off and after another tick from a 2nd Force Lightning you'll get 3stacks for Wrath.

[vonBoomslang]

Force Lightning has 3 ticks. At 3ticks it deals 3x damage giving you 3stacks so you can use Wrath.

 

Or you use Force Lightning for 2 ticks, break it off and after another tick from a 2nd Force Lightning you'll get 3stacks for Wrath.

 

FL has four ticks unless you suffer Pushback.

Myself, I'll probably be switching my Madness (now so much more reliable due to guaranteed Wrath every FL) into some manner of Lightning hybrid to make use of the absurdly powerful force cost reduction and the guaranteed Lightning Barrage on Lightning Strike.

[verfallen]

6 seconds on force lightning is good change because there is a slow attached to it and we need that to kite.

 

FL was already 6 seconds. What was 10 sec is the barrage rate limit. We'll see maybe they listed changes and just kept what wasn't modified out.

[Luckeyduckey]

Seriously, did anyone actually look at the changes and see how OP Hybrid is going to be? Spam lightning + lightning strike.

[Aetideus]

And also with a coincident smash and operative nerf.

[Lafay]

seriously, did anyone actually look at the changes and see how op hybrid is going to be? Spam lightning + lightning strike.

 

shhhhhhh

[Cempa]

Seriously, did anyone actually look at the changes and see how OP Hybrid is going to be? Spam lightning + lightning strike.

 

I doubt it as Lightning Barrage has a 10sec CD...It might allow us to line up burst better though...

[selieth]

My question is why not give us Sorcs the 360 degree knockback back to us as well as letting us spend points to get our instant cast whirlwind back. And another question that I have reported as a bug several times is why the Sage's Sever Force is able to be cast in 360 degrees and the Sorc's Creeping Terror is only useable when facing a target. This issue has been around since the beginning of the game and it still has not been addressed.

 

As far as the known proposed changes in 2.7, i can see using a hybrid spec to be better than either of the other two. My main issue is being constatly rooted and mezzed with no way to defeat these and try and disengage and heal up. At least the cloaking classes are able to cloak out and heal up, I can't do that.

[Cempa]

My question is why not give us Sorcs the 360 degree knockback back to us as well as letting us spend points to get our instant cast whirlwind back. And another question that I have reported as a bug several times is why the Sage's Sever Force is able to be cast in 360 degrees and the Sorc's Creeping Terror is only useable when facing a target. This issue has been around since the beginning of the game and it still has not been addressed.

 

As far as the known proposed changes in 2.7, i can see using a hybrid spec to be better than either of the other two. My main issue is being constatly rooted and mezzed with no way to defeat these and try and disengage and heal up. At least the cloaking classes are able to cloak out and heal up, I can't do that.

 

I too would love to know the answers to the questions you posed...My guess is they deemed them over the top PvP wise!

 

Instant -talented- WW is really needed seeing how its on CD...Ideally WW should have a 1.5sec cast time by default!!

[Ottoattack]

My interest was corruption. Push back protection on a skill that has 70% protection is what I call stupid. Why do we have any changes tied to self stun (AKA Force Barrier)? 5 sec immunity every 180 secs just what corruption needed!

 

Lightning changes looks nice from PvE. As someone with PvP arsenal merc experience, I wish you GL casting 2 lightning strikes. Aint going to happen. In addition, lightning has the lowest survivability of any class in the game. So, for brave souls out there who want to PvP with lightning I wish you best. I will continue to melt you on my PT, with zero chance of fighting back.

 

Madness change is the only change that makes sense, in the only viable PvP tree. The down side is more energy issues.

 

Overall, I am not impressed, at all. Very poor and unthoughtful changes that don't address class issues.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Ottoattack

[Chrisweaver]

shhhhhhh

 

)))))))))) sooon

[Alexhpy]

They added roots to every melee class but forgot to give us a root removal... this is why people like Bradley the Sorc that did all those PvP movies quit.

[Laforet]

These are not the changes i wanted (as a healer) but the DPS changes seem solid.

 

Deff, a step in the right direction.

 

Biggest buff to sorc healing = scoundrel cant spam cockpack anymore.

 

The cockpack change alone merits a resub.

 

REJOICE, FOR THE DARK TIMES ARE OVER.

[colemanron]

Hey folks!

 

Here are some additions to the Class changes coming to Sorcs in 2.7:

 

• Fade Out has been moved to Tier 2 in the Corruption Tree. Empty Body has been moved to Tier 1 in the Corruption Tree. Force Suffusion has been moved to Tier 4 in the Corruption Tree.
  
• Focal Lightning now also decreases the force cost of Lightning Strike by 15% per stack.
  

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Oh My Goodness. Can it be? Is it really possible? Do the devs actually care about the oceans Sorcerers QQried on the forums in the last year?

 

Moving Fadeout to tier 2 in the healing tree, and by this making it available to the DPS trees is a very positive change in the regard of the PVP survivability, through this the viability and the enjoyment factor of the class. Beware, Sorcerers may actually return to PVP and may not be destined to suffer the fate of the victim by default anymore.

 

As far as the Madness Force management buff goes, the class definitely could have used this for the last year, but with the upcoming change to Wrath this was simply needed. As far as PVE goes, Madness' Force issues will most likely be a thing of the past (even though I will have to do some testing first, before confirming this), while it's damage will be more consistent and a tad higher than before. I'm not sure yet if it will be enough to be equal to or above Lightning. Only actual testing can tell.

 

The replacement of Fadeout however brings up another possible issue: Madness Force management in PVP. After putting 36 talent points into the Madness tree, there will be 10 more left. To get Fadeout, one needs to spend 7 in Corruption. This means there will be 3 left to spend on whatever, most logically on talents supporting Force management in the Lightning tree. To gain both Reserves (upping the Force regenerated by channeling Force Lightning) and Electric Induction (lowering the Force cost of all abilites) 5 points are required. Currently while having both talents Madness has problems keeping up with Force, due to multidotting and obvious mechanics of PVP not allowing the constant channeling of Force Lightning. Without testing I'm not sure if the change to Lightning Strike's cost will be a significant Force management help in PVP, but even if it will be, the lost talents in Lightning will probably negate it's effect or possibly make Force issues even worse. This is something that could be worth looking into.

 

 

Also while I'm at it, let me emphasize again how having 0% pushback protection on rotational abilities is a bad idea, and Lightning suffers from this on both Crushing Darkness and Force Lightning. In my opinion Crushing Darkness should be moved from the Sith Efficacy talent to Subversion, since Madness never has to actually hardcast the ability, thus having pushback protection on it is completely needless and redundant, especially while Lightning is suffering from not having it. Force Lightning on the other hand should not be included to Subversion, but the Lightning Barrage proc in my opinion should give some kind of pushback protection to the cast consuming the buff. Aan ability dealing damage in 4 ticks under 1,5 seconds or even quicker (alacrity) can lose a very significant amount of it's damage by any incoming hit which possibly may not even be predictable. While the proc rate is being made more reliable in the upcoming patch, it's lost ticks in my eyes are still too much of a variable, and an adjustment to it could be an even more welcome and needed change for the class.

[ChroniKill]

In terms of Madness force management, I've always been a little confused why our crits restore health, not force. Perhaps changing Devour to say it increases the death field healing by 50%/100% and critical hits with periodic effects restore 0.5%/1% total force would help to mitigate our force management problems

[Malinok]

I didnt get my Sparkly Boom Tickle Finish move

 

/unsub

[Zogbert]

My issue is with Force Barrier. It just didn't need a fix/addition. It worked fine. Giving us another form of quick protection as we exit Force Barrier? Not needed.

 

I'm guessing you mostly PvE. This will be occasionally useful in PvE. Depending on the strength of the "shields", it may be very welcome in PvP.

 

*

Lightning spec if done correct, just does NOT run out of Force, even during long fights.

 

Agreed. This makes madness less fun for me to play. I feel like I can spare the force to toss out extra shields or off-heal if needed. I think the idea of having Wrath reduce the cost of the next spell is an excellent one.

 

*

Finally, let's talk about our CCs? Did they EVER consider extending our Electrocute back to 30 meters? How about allowing us to cast Whirl Wind instantly again? How about making our Overload 360 again?

 

This was a normalization across the game so I don't think we should expect different treatment. As far as Overload, I prefer the new version. Even if I have to aim it, the greater knock back is great for pushing people around in PvP and occasionally in PvE.

 

I've played around on the PTS for a handful of minutes, but I seem to be showing a +250 DPS increase in Lightning. Look forward to giving it a bit more attention...