12 Years A Snave: 2.6 concealment video

[cycao]

No need to be so angry mate, try getting better gear or ask people how to better deal with concealment and I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

I'm the best player ever and cant not deal damage to concealment. Quit cheating. cheater

[PhatMcMuffins]

Love the vid, Snave. Good to see this misguided "buff" brought you and your vids back to swtor, even if just for a bit.

[DarthOvertone]

A lot of prison shower action in that vid.

 

My Scrapper needs more surge. Your crits are hella-better than what my dude pulls off.

[Vaerah]

ill say this before scrubs are like omg 9.5K+ hits all the time.... that only happens on people without full expertise.

 

Another great vid snave. Although I think I liked your last one more.

 

Yes those with full obroan get "only" 8k. To make a comparison my shadow can crit PvEers for same amounts but only 6k on full obroan.

[Vaerah]

Seeing as 2.6 has been released and operatives finally got a buff I thought I'd make a quick video to just show what the class can put out now. We still aren't really viable in ranked arena but as this video shows, we can now destroy PvE geared bads with incredible efficiency.

 

If you're watching this video because operatives keep killing you then I have some advice.

 

1. Stop wearing PvE gear in PvP. Seriously you're going to get destroyed.

 

You are killing PvEers with 11k crits and geared PvPers with 8k crits. Sure, it's a 30% difference but 8k crits are vastly overdone on geared players, a shadow / sin can only dream to do that. That big damage they get once or twice a WZ you are basically SPAMMING it.

 

2. Stop being bad

 

3 damage notifications in 2 GCDs, 10.5k, 8k, 7k. It really takes a BAD player to die to that

 

3. Stop blaming your badness on other classes, if you are getting crushed in seconds then the problem is you and nothing else.

 

Stop calling "being good" what just amounts of having been given a bazooka.

 

 

4. Try to reach out to the community and ask for help, there are plenty of class reps, guides and people who will be happy to teach you tips and tricks.

 

I'll do better, I am already levelling an OP myself.

The infiltration shadow will definitely be put in pension, now he's quite outclassed.

 

Yes you are more fragile YADDA YADDA in fact in your video you are in the middle of people all the time and get hit for 2k, big deal.

 

So, now you PvE parse 60-70% higher than a DPS shadow, in PvE you kill in 30% less time than a shadow does AND you can (and should and have to) pick fights exactly like a shadow.

 

Reasons to still play a shadow? Because they can respec and be the worst tank?

Nice, but guess what, you can respec as well and become IMMEDIATELY the top PvP healer and automatic 2400 rating given on a silver platter.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Vaerah

[Vaerah]

funny thing is you tell sorc and sage to use their god bubble on the hard stun, because it literally screw ups the opener, and you get a reply "no, i don't wanna waste my CD there", and keep on complaining that they got stunlocked to death.

 

Sorcs / sages are regular WZ material. In regular WZs nobody will do a single thing seeing a bubbled sorc / sage with an OP restealthed and ready to finish him off.

On the contrary, they pass by and pat themselves about the fact the free kill class is going to take the OP attention on it and not turn attention to YOU.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Vaerah

[Vaerah]

Also, I see a TON of illusion right here.

 

The good PvPers have almost all left for good PVP games and the few left SHALL flock to the new MMOs coming soon.

 

What's left is mediocres and bads, so a class permagrinding exactly the "material" left in this game is hard to stomach for the majority (of mediocres).

 

If this new fad does not disappear in few weeks, I'd not be surprised seeing SWTOR PvP become exactly AS active as the free for all area on Tatooine is.

[sithBracer]

You are killing PvEers with 11k crits and geared PvPers with 8k crits. Sure, it's a 30% difference but 8k crits are vastly overdone on geared players, a shadow / sin can only dream to do that. That big damage they get once or twice a WZ you are basically SPAMMING it.

 

 

 

3 damage notifications in 2 GCDs, 10.5k, 8k, 7k. It really takes a BAD player to die to that

 

 

 

Stop calling "being good" what just amounts of having been given a bazooka.

 

 

 

 

I'll do better, I am already levelling an OP myself.

The infiltration shadow will definitely be put in pension, now he's quite outclassed.

 

Yes you are more fragile YADDA YADDA in fact in your video you are in the middle of people all the time and get hit for 2k, big deal.

 

So, now you PvE parse 60-70% higher than a DPS shadow, in PvE you kill in 30% less time than a shadow does AND you can (and should and have to) pick fights exactly like a shadow.

 

Reasons to still play a shadow? Because they can respec and be the worst tank?

Nice, but guess what, you can respec as well and become IMMEDIATELY the top PvP healer and automatic 2400 rating given on a silver platter.

 

Shadows have a lot of problems and need fixing (despite what people say), but I haven't seen anything tell me that this class is OP. I have been shoot firsted (is that good english?) many times on my sorc (worst armor ever) and it never took more than 7-8k. Smashers on the other hand, do 10k (and root me in the process) all the time to my sorc.

 

This may be off topic, but I think the biggest mistake with shadows in PvP is giving them the force stalker armor ability that gives you 3 charges and lowers the CD on recklessness. It overpowers them in the quick burst dept so much that even a horrible players can seem OP by just spamming recklessness, discharge + 2 shocks, then cloaking out and doing it again. It makes a 1 v 1 fight just a battle of attrition until you can cloak out and get your recklessness back removing skill from the equation. I was able to kill fully geared people without 3 charges and an extra recklessness and I still do it now. The only people I ever had to use it on was the PTs pre-2.6. I would trade in that ability for reduced force cost for voltic slash/thrash of about 7. This would increase their sustained damage just enough to keep them viable in a longer battle while at the same time still allowing them to keep that "lurk in the dark, come out and gank" thing without making it too easy to use.

 

In short, if you need all 3 charges and -15 seconds off the recklessness CD to win a 1 v 1 more than a little more sustained damage, then something is wrong with the player.

 

Thats my opinion anyway.

[-Feador-]

you take alacrity. how it affects on the energy regen?

[sithBracer]

you take alacrity. how it affects on the energy regen?

 

Not much.

[-Feador-]

when why? max suge )

[Cryowolf]

Complaining about Op damage...

 

First off, he clearly explained that it was a montage of attacks on poorly geared or poorly played enemies. Second, if you actually paid attention to the clips and not just the big yellow numbers you would have noticed where they came from.

 

1. @:46 a 9185 Backstab(BS) on a 30K Sorc with WZ damage buff, Power relic(PR) buff and Tactical Advantage(TA)

--A solid hit on a decently geared enemy with strong buffs up. Would have been around 7800 without the WZ buff.

 

2. @:51 a 8000 Hidden Strike(HS) on a 31K Sniper with PR buff

--A solid hit in the higher end of the damage range on a decent geared medium armor target.

 

3. @:56 a 9296 HS on a 38K DPS Guardian with PR buff

--An expected strong hit on a PvE geared target.

 

4. @1:43 9546 HS on a 32K Gunslinger with WZ buff

--A strong hit on an equally geared enemy due to WZ buff, otherwise would have been around 8100.

 

5. @2:04 a 10059 SF and 9295 Explosive Probe on same PvE geared Guardian from #3 with WZ buff and PR buff

--Again, bad gear and strong buffs to get the large numbers, witout WZ buff would be around 8500 and 7900 respectively.

 

6. @2:13 a 11316 SF on a 40.5K (??!?) Sage with WZ buff

--PvE geared and Endurance Augments(??) plus big buff, otherwise would be around 9600.

 

7. @2:16 a 7000 HS on a 30K Guardian with no buffs

--Expected hit on a decent geared enemy.

 

8. @3:26 a 9K BS on the same poorly geared Sorc from #6

--Expected and likely farmed in that WZ for big numbers.

 

9. @3:27 a 9142 HS on a 28K Sorc with PR buff with no bubble up.

--Solid hit on a lesser PvP geared light armor target.

 

10. @3:34 a 10727 SF once again on the poorly geared Sage from #6

--I hope to encounter a 40K Sage/ Sorc someday.

 

As you can see from 1, 2, 7, & 9 the hits on PvP geared enemies are not insanely OP and the rest were against obviously juicy targets. Imagine what kind of Shadow Strike, Force Breach and Project crits you would have seen against that 40.5K Sage...

 

I'll do better, I am already levelling an OP myself.

The infiltration shadow will definitely be put in pension, now he's quite outclassed.

 

Your Shadow won't be shelved for long. Once you play the Op a bit at 55 (lowbies will be a blast in the 40s and early 50s, of course) and realize the OP burst isn't as OP as you thought and you are melting under enemy fire like a candle to a flame, you'll realize you had it better on the Shadow.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Cryowolf

[ProKsnNwk]

LoL.

They only buffed Op/Sco damage little bit....and all that QQ on the forums...

They are still same as they were before the patch, squishy little Agents that are done for after their burst with lot Energy Management problems.

Sentinels/Marauders are still FOTG (Flavor of the Game) just like how it was from 1.2! Even before that they were already good.

Where is the nerf for the Pyrotech/Vanguard?!

 

They deserved a buff, which they still didn't necessary got, they still squishy as hell and a Mara/Sent, Pyro/Van, Sniper/Gunslinger can do lot more sustained damage which is also quite bursty....

 

 

Anyone saying otherwise just lies to themselves or isn't enough knowledgeable on the topic.

Edited February 12, 2014 by ProKsnNwk

[Vaerah]

First off, he clearly explained that it was a montage of attacks on poorly geared or poorly played enemies. Second, if you actually paid attention to the clips and not just the big yellow numbers you would have noticed where they came from.

 

1. @:46 a 9185 Backstab(BS) on a 30K Sorc with WZ damage buff, Power relic(PR) buff and Tactical Advantage(TA)

--A solid hit on a decently geared enemy with strong buffs up. Would have been around 7800 without the WZ buff.

 

 

10. @3:34 a 10727 SF once again on the poorly geared Sage from #6

--I hope to encounter a 40K Sage/ Sorc someday.

 

As you can see from 1, 2, 7, & 9 the hits on PvP geared enemies are not insanely OP and the rest were against obviously juicy targets. Imagine what kind of Shadow Strike, Force Breach and Project crits you would have seen against that 40.5K Sage...

 

 

 

Your Shadow won't be shelved for long. Once you play the Op a bit at 55 (lowbies will be a blast in the 40s and early 50s, of course) and realize the OP burst isn't as OP as you thought and you are melting under enemy fire like a candle to a flame, you'll realize you had it better on the Shadow.

 

I play against the worst worldwide noobs (TOFN is their safe haven) in PvE gear and even with the WZ buffs I can only dream seeing these numbers.

 

You certainly have a shadow / sin video proving those so fat numbers done by them.

 

As for melting under enemy fire, they don't melt any more than would melt my shadow or sorc or even marauder if he has no CDs available.

 

OPs were "rebalanced" with the idea that the lack of "oh sht moment" survival abilities would justify ultra-massive damage. But apparently at BW nobody is bright enough to get the tiny fact that WZs are not a 1v1 and ops always go along with another OP or sin.

 

This oh-so-tiny damage buff is changing what has been a foundation of WZs since SWTOR launch, that is the "put 1 guy guarding a node". Now you need to put 2 and thus the team with an op gets an automatic statistical advantage in the middle, as they will have 1 more man to fight.

I also have seen it enough (because OPs can be indeed be played by good players) to learn that the instant the second node guard man leaves for whatever reason, the remaining guard SHALL be annihilated and node capped (expecially effective in AH, 10 seconds before the pylons "explode").

I know no shadow who can reliably time a pylon take like that. Shadows have to resort to "smart tricks" like wasting opponent's stun breaker + sap, double sap, creative whirlwhind and so on.

An OP will just facement and they know they CAN take the pylon with brute force. And they do it, despite how in this forum they are portrayed like they are perma-dying garbage.

 

Yesterday I have shadow striked one for... 2232 (augmented obroan most gear including weapon and OH). Let's imagine he was guarded by an invisible guard, it's still not exactly "paper squishy" as people pretend to say.

[Valkyriez]

What's the issue here? In conq gear with willpower aug'd I get 10k mauls on PvE geared folks. Seems fine to me.

 

Nice vid.

[Vaerah]

What's the issue here? In conq gear with willpower aug'd I get 10k mauls on PvE geared folks. Seems fine to me.

 

Nice vid.

 

You get *1* maul for 10k, not 2-3 in a row and on the same guy.

[Cordorian]

I play against the worst worldwide noobs (TOFN is their safe haven) in PvE gear and even with the WZ buffs I can only dream seeing these numbers.

 

You certainly have a shadow / sin video proving those so fat numbers done by them.

 

As for melting under enemy fire, they don't melt any more than would melt my shadow or sorc or even marauder if he has no CDs available.

 

OPs were "rebalanced" with the idea that the lack of "oh sht moment" survival abilities would justify ultra-massive damage. But apparently at BW nobody is bright enough to get the tiny fact that WZs are not a 1v1 and ops always go along with another OP or sin.

 

This oh-so-tiny damage buff is changing what has been a foundation of WZs since SWTOR launch, that is the "put 1 guy guarding a node". Now you need to put 2 and thus the team with an op gets an automatic statistical advantage in the middle, as they will have 1 more man to fight.

I also have seen it enough (because OPs can be indeed be played by good players) to learn that the instant the second node guard man leaves for whatever reason, the remaining guard SHALL be annihilated and node capped (expecially effective in AH, 10 seconds before the pylons "explode").

I know no shadow who can reliably time a pylon take like that. Shadows have to resort to "smart tricks" like wasting opponent's stun breaker + sap, double sap, creative whirlwhind and so on.

An OP will just facement and they know they CAN take the pylon with brute force. And they do it, despite how in this forum they are portrayed like they are perma-dying garbage.

 

Yesterday I have shadow striked one for... 2232 (augmented obroan most gear including weapon and OH). Let's imagine he was guarded by an invisible guard, it's still not exactly "paper squishy" as people pretend to say.

 

Snave could do it before 2.6, I could do it before 2.6 and a lot of people playing the class on a more regular basis as well. You could always win a 1v1 at the off node and cap. So that is nothing new that change brought about. And yes a remotely skilled assassin/shadow could always to it as well, but he usually had it a little bit easier.

 

What really changed is that you could now hit quite a bit harder outside the opener and the stunlock and that your rotation makes way more sense. Before 2.6 even in burst attemp you had situation where had to use rifle shot because you didn't proc the second laceration, backstab was still on CD, cloaking screen was on CD and shiv was on CD. Now have a propper priority list to go through, and your figures are a bit higher on the score board for those who care about those (but those play the hybrid sorc or smash anyway).

 

I bet if some dedicated infil shadow would make a collage of some of his mad crits i would be too surprise if that was even more impressive. But it also it isn't like every smash of a smasher hits for 12k, that really only happens with pve geared people, and they already have an auto crit and a massive surge buff attached to it. Same with procced force scream in a gore window.

 

I had hidden strike hit for 3k or less quite often, and if that happenes, just hope they finish you off quickly

[Valkyriez]

You get *1* maul for 10k, not 2-3 in a row and on the same guy.

 

Spike maul, recklessness, discharge, shock all do crazy dmg in an opener on low exp targets. Then volt slash x 2, low slash and maul again with shock then discharge at 3 stacks and vanish and do it all over again. It's pretty well comparable IMO except as a sin dps I have much better defensives but no range.

[HobbesTay]

Nice vid Snave, very entertaining

 

I play on the same server as Snave and have been destroyed by him on many occasion's

 

I don't think concealment agents are over powered at the moment they are just doing what they are designed to do.

 

As I play a pyro Merc I know that if I am caught in the open by a concealment agent (or a Sin for that matter) then the fight is heavily in their favour, but the fact is even against Snave I have a chance if I have CD's available (electronet in particular), whilst if I don't then I am pretty much dead meat.

 

If on the other hand I get the drop on a agent or Sin then the outcome is pretty much in my favour even against skilled players so the fight can be pretty much decided on what you do when a stealth opens up on you. If you are a Sorc and guarding a node then your finger should be hovering over the indestructible bubble button, if you are a Merc then it should be over Jet boost/stun or hydraulic overrides.

 

Most people forget when they are guarding a node that they are not there to kill but to stop the enemy from capping so running away, stunning/slowing etc is a much better tactic than trying to kill the stealthier and then hoping your teammates arrive before you die.

 

Again as a Pyro Merc (I also play Madness Sorc/lethality Op/Pyro PT/Anni Mara/Jug semi dps Tank) I find SIn's with their openers and that dam cloak of invulnerability much harder to deal with than Concealment Agents.

 

The specs and classes that struggle when opened up on by an Op or Sin are the same specs classes that will destroy the Op's and Sin's if they open on them from range, so fair's fair I think.

 

As to people in PVE gear, my large hits on my pyro Merc are in the region of 5-7k, but I was gobsmacked the other day when I hit, I think it was a sorc with 35k health for 10.5k!!! No idea what the guy must of been wearing as it happened to fast and I was in the middle of a large fight so couldn't stop to investigate. I didn't even think it was possible to get over 10k as a pyro Merc lol.

[Scriffle]

@Vaerah pls stop commenting tnx!

 

U can't be taken seriously if you say that an Operative is a better damage dealer than an Assasin. rofl

[Blackrot]

@snave Best pvp video i've seen in AWHILE! Keep it up!

[snave]

@snave Best pvp video i've seen in AWHILE! Keep it up!

 

Thanks a lot mate, nice to know people are enjoying them. There probably wont be another one for a while if ever because I was lucky enough to get a beta invite to a game I've been looking forward to although to be honest after reading some of the posts here and seeing people down voting it on youtube I don't think i'll be missed that much!

[Vaerah]

Spike maul, recklessness, discharge, shock all do crazy dmg in an opener on low exp targets. Then volt slash x 2, low slash and maul again with shock then discharge at 3 stacks and vanish and do it all over again. It's pretty well comparable IMO except as a sin dps I have much better defensives but no range.

 

Yes, you have just listed a sequence that (by "mere coincidence" as my main is a shadow) know well enough. But now count the skill names you typed: its well longer than seeing 3 x > 8-9k damage notification messages in 2 GCDs. Heck I have some other more hybrid classes hit me for > 10k but that's a once per 5 WZs event not the norm.

[Missandei]

Yes, you have just listed a sequence that (by "mere coincidence" as my main is a shadow) know well enough. But now count the skill names you typed: its well longer than seeing 3 x > 8-9k damage notification messages in 2 GCDs. Heck I have some other more hybrid classes hit me for > 10k but that's a once per 5 WZs event not the norm.

 

You cant see 3 x 8-9K damage notification messages as Concelament, save that all the hits are crits.

And with a average crit rating of 20-25% it is not impossible but not common.

[Vaerah]

Snave could do it before 2.6, I could do it before 2.6 and a lot of people playing the class on a more regular basis as well. You could always win a 1v1 at the off node and cap. So that is nothing new that change brought about. And yes a remotely skilled assassin/shadow could always to it as well, but he usually had it a little bit easier.

 

You just typed the topic in a nutshell.

 

Before 2.6 Snave and an handful top players could do it.

 

Exactly like now 3-4 assassins / shadow can do something similar (I assume, never seen a video of it but I do see well better shadows / sins than me in WZs).

 

What changes is that now every other random noob OP can do the same, whereas it still takes the 3-4 top sins to pull those numbers out. That is, such class full power has been "given away" to the "plebs" not just to those capable enough to hit the class skill cap.

 

If instead of 2-3 extra-competent OPs per server you make everybody pull similar numbers THEN things suddenly become grim. Sure, the mediocres don't pull 11k, not even 10k. But they still do 3 quick 8.5k and it's still plenty enough to obliterate lesser classes like sorcs.

Now, I am in the interesting position of playing shadow, sorc and mara so... I enjoy FRAPsing the 10k crits on sorcs like everybody else but I am also on the receiving end and I can positively say it's not fun, not at all.

Expecially since after the effort of grinding augmented obroan you somehow feel entitled to believe you should last fairly longer than a PvE basic guy. Not so. Not by a visible margin enough. Yeah I can live 1 GCD longer, big deal!