Nocher Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The term "farming" has been thrown about all over the place when referring to premades vs pugs. I, as a proud creator and participant in voip premades can say that we all feel bad when fighting new players, and we only "farm" them because when we see something, we kill something. It's the only mindset that makes us any good at real matches vs the other premades. So new players and players who havn't quite gotten the hang of things in GSF: please understand that we don't kill you over and over out of malice, we do it for the sake of finishing the game quickly to try to fight another premade and have a good game. As soon as more people get the hang of the game and more premades form, we won't need to "farm" because we'll be in happy, challenging games. In the meantime, there's generally a space or two open in most premades, and i've yet to meet a bad person in gsf. (a few trolls, to be sure, but no real malice) So just ask some high damage players to group with them. They generally don't care if you go into Voip with them or not, and you might get some handy tricks from those bastards that have been "farming" you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) See one side badly dominating the other, switch factions. That's what we do. Works out fine. One of the reasons we ended up mainly running on the Imp side - it has much fewer veteran players on my server. On the other hand, if you're too much of a wuss to jump into a stock ship, even with the benefit of a premade behind you, that's quite another matter. Edited February 8, 2014 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MystbladeWA Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The term "farming" has been thrown about all over the place when referring to premades vs pugs. I, as a proud creator and participant in voip premades can say that we all feel bad when fighting new players, and we only "farm" them because when we see something, we kill something. It's the only mindset that makes us any good at real matches vs the other premades. So new players and players who havn't quite gotten the hang of things in GSF: please understand that we don't kill you over and over out of malice, we do it for the sake of finishing the game quickly to try to fight another premade and have a good game. As soon as more people get the hang of the game and more premades form, we won't need to "farm" because we'll be in happy, challenging games. In the meantime, there's generally a space or two open in most premades, and i've yet to meet a bad person in gsf. (a few trolls, to be sure, but no real malice) So just ask some high damage players to group with them. They generally don't care if you go into Voip with them or not, and you might get some handy tricks from those bastards that have been "farming" you. Your benevolence knows no bounds. You should be nominated for the Nobel Prize dude. I am in awe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 your total selflessness should be an inspiration to all... i mean, who cares about anyone else as long as you get to the next match sooner, right?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegadeimp Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 On ToFn we always have a few premade groups going. Mainly for the fast queues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocher Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) your total selflessness should be an inspiration to all... i mean, who cares about anyone else as long as you get to the next match sooner, right?.. Yes, I am selfish, i'm a bad person. But I only have one ship in my loadout, it's unmastered and by god I'll use it to its full potential. I'm always happy to invite anybody who asks into a group, because it's a team game and I like winning (or losing, if it's hard fought) There is consistently a 12 man group which ques together on the other side on my server, so why the hell should i not get practice flying routines with my wingmen when I fight new players? Edited February 8, 2014 by Nocher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershadows Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 your total selflessness should be an inspiration to all... i mean, who cares about anyone else as long as you get to the next match sooner, right?.. So, what you're saying is that you somehow think it's kind to drag out a losing match and make people suffer through 15 minutes of knowing they've been defeated rather than ending it quickly so everyone can get on to the next game. It sucks for both teams involved, so why not get it over quickly rather than make people suffer through it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) if you're taking my post serious, you're missing the point... i found it silly for him to justify what he's doing when there's no need to do so... i don't care if he's farming others, as long as he's honest about it and doesn't try to spin it as something benign... trying to do so called for a bit of snark... Edited February 8, 2014 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershadows Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 if you're taking my post serious, you're missing the point... i found it silly for him to justify what he's doing when there's no need to do so... i don't care if he's farming others, as long as he's honest about it and doesn't try to spin it as something benign... trying to do so called for a bit of snark... I actually think it IS something benign to just want to get it over with. I know there's been plenty of times in ground pvp where all I was thinking was "please 3 cap us, please 3 cap us, please 3 cap us, this game sucks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirUrza Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I've seen it happen in ground pvp, where it's a completely one sided battle (particularly in huttball) and instead of winning the game they farm medals and kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocher Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 I've seen it happen in ground pvp, where it's a completely one sided battle (particularly in huttball) and instead of winning the game they farm medals and kills. unfortunately, in this game, winning overwhelmingly doesnt really speed things up as much as with huttball. I end up "farming" because there's nothing else to do in the game and I refuse to tab out during a game out of respect for those who are doing their best. Basically I guess i'm just tired of the nomenclature of it. Farming implies you get something for it, be it personal satisfaction or reward. Perhaps call it overrunning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohkar Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) unfortunately, in this game, winning overwhelmingly doesnt really speed things up as much as with huttball. I end up "farming" because there's nothing else to do in the game and I refuse to tab out during a game out of respect for those who are doing their best. Basically I guess i'm just tired of the nomenclature of it. Farming implies you get something for it, be it personal satisfaction or reward. Perhaps call it overrunning? Meanwhile the people getting farmed are getting frustrated and then will stop queing causing que times to drag out longer and longer till people stop queing for GSF. Its a double bladed sword your playing with that can easily be solved by a proper matchmaking system instead of one side having veteran pilots in 5 ships vs. rookie pilots flying 2 ships. The match I was just in, was 8v8 and it was 7 veterans and 1 rookie vs. 1 veteran and 7 rookies and the out come was obvious from the start. I was a spawn killed second I respawn to keep me out of battle and my co-wingman couldn't hit the side of a barn. So to you that would be a good match and to me and my team frustration with three people saying that was enough for them, three less imperial pilots to play GSF ever again. Edited February 8, 2014 by Zohkar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocher Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Meanwhile the people getting farmed are getting frustrated and then will stop queing causing que times to drag out longer and longer till people stop queing for GSF. Its a double bladed sword your playing with that can easily be solved by a proper matchmaking system instead of one side having veteran pilots in 5 ships vs. rookie pilots flying 2 ships. The match I was just in, was 8v8 and it was 7 veterans and 1 rookie vs. 1 veteran and 7 rookies and the out come was obvious from the start. I was a spawn killed second I respawn to keep me out of battle and my co-wingman couldn't hit the side of a barn. So to you that would be a good match and to me and my team frustration with three people saying that was enough for them, three less imperial pilots to play GSF ever again. no, to me that would be a boring match, like i said i rush through those to get to the real games (premade v premade) I can't really help who i'm matched against, and I feel bad when I don't try in a match, it's just the unfortunate result of an unfortunate matchup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoloGrinder Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The term "farming" has been thrown about all over the place when referring to premades vs pugs. I, as a proud creator and participant in voip premades can say that we all feel bad when fighting new players, and we only "farm" them because when we see something, we kill something. It's the only mindset that makes us any good at real matches vs the other premades. So new players and players who havn't quite gotten the hang of things in GSF: please understand that we don't kill you over and over out of malice, we do it for the sake of finishing the game quickly to try to fight another premade and have a good game. As soon as more people get the hang of the game and more premades form, we won't need to "farm" because we'll be in happy, challenging games. In the meantime, there's generally a space or two open in most premades, and i've yet to meet a bad person in gsf. (a few trolls, to be sure, but no real malice) So just ask some high damage players to group with them. They generally don't care if you go into Voip with them or not, and you might get some handy tricks from those bastards that have been "farming" you. We very much agree on one thing and I have suspected that pilots in premades with true skill would agree with me on this. The premade aces that really are good would much rather be fighting against other premades. I suspect that the ones that are riding there shirt tails into battle and farming along side them but are not that good them self would like to see the way things are going continue. I think they are the ones that are resisting separate queue's for grouped and ungrouped play. You would likely enjoy a premade only queue from the sounds of it and the new players wish to have the same thing. What are your thoughts on having a more elite queue for groups? I think it would encourage new players to stick with it and in the long run there would be a lot more competition. I want 3 queue's. 1) Groups 2) pugs 3) New players what are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocher Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 We very much agree on one thing and I have suspected that pilots in premades with true skill would agree with me on this. The premade aces that really are good would much rather be fighting against other premades. I suspect that the ones that are riding there shirt tails into battle and farming along side them but are not that good them self would like to see the way things are going continue. I think they are the ones that are resisting separate queue's for grouped and ungrouped play. You would likely enjoy a premade only queue from the sounds of it and the new players wish to have the same thing. What are your thoughts on having a more elite queue for groups? I think it would encourage new players to stick with it and in the long run there would be a lot more competition. I want 3 queue's. 1) Groups 2) pugs 3) New players what are your thoughts? I would absolutely love a group or ranked q for this game. However, I also very much like to PLAY the game, and to do so with real life friends, so I would be worried about very long que times in the group que section (or the whole thing being monopolized by one guild). This was the same problem in the pvp ground ranked games,which would be horrible for the space game as a whole. Now, if there were cross-server group only ques... i'd dig it (not likely to happen though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoloGrinder Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I would absolutely love a group or ranked q for this game. However, I also very much like to PLAY the game, and to do so with real life friends, so I would be worried about very long que times in the group que section (or the whole thing being monopolized by one guild). This was the same problem in the pvp ground ranked games,which would be horrible for the space game as a whole. Now, if there were cross-server group only ques... i'd dig it (not likely to happen though) I have a theory on the group times. I think the day they separated queue's every one would have a long wait. but new players would start liking GSF and play a lot more. those who have quit out of frustration would try it again and like it. Before long they would no longer qualify for the new queue and would play as Pugs and that Queue would get very strong. With a lot more Pug players around they would find it much easier to form squadrons on there servers and with some sort of Ace reward for flying grouped like maybe a squadron insignia they could wear on there helmet they would be forming squadron's left and right. All queue's would be much better in a couple weeks than the broken queue is right now. Just my theory can you see it happening that way? I don't want to punish premades by any means and I know that farming a super weak opposition is there only option when they fly against one. Give them something cool that lets them stand out as aces in a squadron and every one will want to be part of it. Edited February 9, 2014 by HoloGrinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocher Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 I have a theory on the group times. I think the day they separated queue's every one would have a long wait. but new players would start liking GSF and play a lot more. those who have quit out of frustration would try it again and like it. Before long they would no longer qualify for the new queue and would play as Pugs and that Queue would get very strong. With a lot more Pug players around they would find it much easier to form squadrons on there servers and with some sort of Ace reward for flying grouped like maybe a squadron insignia they could wear on there helmet they would be forming squadron's left and right. All queue's would be much better in a couple weeks than the broken queue is right now. Just my theory can you see it happening that way? I don't want to punish premades by any means and I know that farming a super weak opposition is there only option when they fly against one. Give them something cool that lets them stand out as aces in a squadron and every one will want to be part of it. I do agree that those measures would definitely stop the crisis in the long run if it went as you predict, but the process would take weeks to really work its magic. In the mean time, slow ques would drive people who normally play together to just simul-que in singles, which would put us back in the same situation as before, since even in a game of 8 new players vs 7 new players and an experienced mastered one, the team with the one ends up winning overwhelmingly still. Perhaps a more rigid tiering system based on games played? also, thank you everybody that has posted for being so constructive, I love seeing a forum on the forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoloGrinder Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I would absolutely love a group or ranked q for this game. However, I also very much like to PLAY the game, and to do so with real life friends, so I would be worried about very long que times in the group que section (or the whole thing being monopolized by one guild). This was the same problem in the pvp ground ranked games,which would be horrible for the space game as a whole. Now, if there were cross-server group only ques... i'd dig it (not likely to happen though) I agree 100% with cross server grouping. Some servers are rumored to have the imps owning and i'd very much like to meet those imps and fly with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 the problem with three seperate ques is it lengthens length, and proably would cause other problems, you'd likely see some "premades" queing up independantly together hoping to get into matches to farm PUGs. likewise there are two VERY differnt types of premades. there's the hyper effective kill em all premades. and there's the "ohh hey I'm doing some GSF, my buddy wants to come along. we're not really cordinating just having some fun" premades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocher Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 the problem with three seperate ques is it lengthens length, and proably would cause other problems, you'd likely see some "premades" queing up independantly together hoping to get into matches to farm PUGs. likewise there are two VERY differnt types of premades. there's the hyper effective kill em all premades. and there's the "ohh hey I'm doing some GSF, my buddy wants to come along. we're not really cordinating just having some fun" premades and there are a few combinations, real life friends who are all merciless bastards, who just joke around while killing you over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 and there are a few combinations, real life friends who are all merciless bastards, who just joke around while killing you over and over. ikr, one's own guildies are the often the meanest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterKannNix Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Enjoy your little game as long as it last. GS as it is now will die out quite quickly. In the moment it's new and shining but the "weak" player will quickly lose interest. Hope enough good player on both sides are left then, so you can play at all. I think GS is simply boring and quickly extremely unfair even more then ground PvP. I go back to ground PvP as i can enjoy that much more then GS. damn had they invest the development resources to the core game it would be a much better investment. my 2 cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Streven- Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 My solution for the newbies is to give them a pve training environment where they can truly learn the ropes. I can't see that being too difficult to produce. I know I would have used it. Let people slap on all the components for free there as well so they can try different combos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocher Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Enjoy your little game as long as it last. GS as it is now will die out quite quickly. In the moment it's new and shining but the "weak" player will quickly lose interest. Hope enough good player on both sides are left then, so you can play at all. I think GS is simply boring and quickly extremely unfair even more then ground PvP. I go back to ground PvP as i can enjoy that much more then GS. damn had they invest the development resources to the core game it would be a much better investment. my 2 cent please, let's see some constructive criticism, sir. Perhaps you could suggest something that would have made it better for you, even if you don't plan on coming back? (specific ideas, please) Like the person who posted beow you. My solution for the newbies is to give them a pve training environment where they can truly learn the ropes. I can't see that being too difficult to produce. I know I would have used it. Let people slap on all the components for free there as well so they can try different combos. That would definitely be something worth thinking about, but what do you think should be in the pve simulation, just drones? a maze to navigate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoloGrinder Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I do agree that those measures would definitely stop the crisis in the long run if it went as you predict, but the process would take weeks to really work its magic. In the mean time, slow ques would drive people who normally play together to just simul-que in singles, which would put us back in the same situation as before, since even in a game of 8 new players vs 7 new players and an experienced mastered one, the team with the one ends up winning overwhelmingly still. Perhaps a more rigid tiering system based on games played? also, thank you everybody that has posted for being so constructive, I love seeing a forum on the forums Another thing they could do is role the queue's out over time. They could start with 2 queue's. 1) New players 2) Every one else Then a couple weeks down the road once new players are more into GSF because they are having fun and more people are playing in general they could split it to 3 queue's. 1) New players 2) Pugs 3) Groups A couple weeks after that as it continues to grow they could divide it further. 1) New players 2) pugs *3) Ace (Hardcore Pug Ranked with KDR and Win/Loss recorded in your character information and in game rewards) 4) Casual Grouping *5) Squadron Aces (Team ranked with KDR, Win/Loss recorded with squadron in game perks and maybe a custom ship option. * Are optional modes that you have to choose to join. If you add VOIP for all and cross server queuing I have no doubt that this would work and bring a much more enjoyable game experience to every one. Is this something we can all get behind? Edited February 10, 2014 by HoloGrinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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