Alexhpy Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Notice how that guy is doing 2v1`s and winning all the time? That is due to his burst, he kills people in seconds. How is that done? Offense: The burst is thanks to his min/maxed gear, his 30% surge on any crit(except stockstrike), the fact that pyro gets a lot of crit from talents and his uber cooldown giving them 15s of 25% crit for 15 seconds. Defense: His defense is mostly Adrenaline Rush, that is usually a 3min cooldown. But Pyro gets 6 sec reduction to that every time they take damage, they can have it reduced to 40 seconds. And they get 30% less damage while its up. 8 seconds of being basically immune to 1-2 people attacking you and end up at 35% after the 8 seconds are up EVERY 40ish seconds.... i think any class would love that. On top of that they have their 25% damage reduction for 15 seconds from their shield AND 25% to get ANY ATTACK(tech, elemental, etc) miss for 6 seconds every 45s. Time on target: You can`t kite them, they have a slow on their attacks, they have Hold the Line(movement impairing immunity(no slow, pull, root, etc.) for 6 seconds on a 30s cd, they can pull you to them, a 4s stun, a 2.5 AOE(5 people) stun and their attacks are 10m range, so they can kite melee by staying over 4m and below 10m range. Why is this not yet OP? Because you don`t see a lot of them yet... they were nerfed and people stopped playing them. In ranked, they are the most powerful class right now(tied with marauders/sentinels), even the nr. 1 player is a Powertech. Conclusion: Buffing anything about their damage would make for an even better burst... and it would mean people would start playing this class in large numbers. That would be a PvP disaster.... Any buff to damage must come with a nerf to their defensive cd`s - for example removing the cd reduction to adrenaline rush and giving them a CD reduction to Hold the Line(mercenary has a cd reduction to their knockback, not to Adrenaline Rush) - however i doubt PvP players would like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telaan Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 broke our best pve dps build. Carebear forums ——> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevzz Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 only for merc / commando vangaurds is still weak compared to what it used to be. Merc/mando Pyro/assault are worse than VG/PT by quite a bit...they rely on channeled stuff to reset Rail Shot/HiB. PT's can just spam Flame Burst while the dots are up and watch the reset proc fast like hell! Pyro PT's perform much better than pyro mercs...mainly because of the big difference in reset mechanics...one gets off a Rail Shot every 6-8 seconds, whereas the other just needs a single interrupt and the chance to reset it is pushed by 4 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I`m sure they will buff PT`s in 2.7, together with assassins, they are the last 2 classes left... And 2.7 is launching on the 24th so its not too far away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krozis Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Honestly? If it wasn't for flame burst, I think I'd have no desire to play the Powertech over my Merc. The range nerf obviously hurt. I still think Thermal Detonator is too weak and has always been the indirect cause of so many people trying to find a hybrid that works with PT's.... you'll never see this on a Merc. (successfully). AP is a really fun spec. It feels like you have lots of 'stuff' to do and it is probably the built in anti-Smash spec. I always felt in powertech my biggest weapon was to out burst. A lot of these little videos you see will have poorly geared opponents, and/or a concentration of cool-downs all firing off to add tremendous burst for a short time to Powertechs. I always looked at my best chance of beating a good Marauder (for example) was my burst being up but without power shield there is a definite feel of glass cannon for Pyrotech. My opinion is purely from PVP and I've PVP'd with my Merc and my Powertech in almost every spec imaginable for years. Right now, I prefer my Merc. I feel more survivable, and the Pyro flows better. (it parses better on Merc for PVE fans). Going back to my original statement I feel if you take flame burst away the Pyrotech Powertech is trash. I'd rather be a Merc.... however even in PVP I do better with Arsenal... much better. If I'm going to be, or look for serious Melee damage in PVP, right now, I'm not sure it would be Powertech considering what I've been seeing/experiencing lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Merc/mando Pyro/assault are worse than VG/PT by quite a bit...they rely on channeled stuff to reset Rail Shot/HiB. PT's can just spam Flame Burst while the dots are up and watch the reset proc fast like hell! Pyro PT's perform much better than pyro mercs...mainly because of the big difference in reset mechanics...one gets off a Rail Shot every 6-8 seconds, whereas the other just needs a single interrupt and the chance to reset it is pushed by 4 seconds. Not quite true. Reset will proc on the first tic of Full Auto/Unload making it almost impossible to interrupt. Problem comes when you need fillers and charged bolts gets interrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevzz Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Not quite true. Reset will proc on the first tic of Full Auto/Unload making it almost impossible to interrupt. Problem comes when you need fillers and charged bolts gets interrupted. Yes, meanwhile PTs can just spam Flame Burst xD. Don't kid yourself, Pyro PT is much more effective than Merc PT in almost any situation...the fact that PTs don't rely on, as you mentioned, channeled abilities makes a whole world of difference. Not to mention Charged Bolts/Power Shot deals trash dmg in comparison to Flame Burst...AND it requires activation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, meanwhile PTs can just spam Flame Burst xD. Don't kid yourself, Pyro PT is much more effective than Merc PT in almost any situation...the fact that PTs don't rely on, as you mentioned, channeled abilities makes a whole world of difference. Not to mention Charged Bolts/Power Shot deals trash dmg in comparison to Flame Burst...AND it requires activation... All true. Anyone that thinks a merc of any spec is more effective than a PT in PvP is flat out wrong right now. That said, good players can do reasonably well in regs with merc pyro. Just stay away from ranked matches unless you really have the spec down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, meanwhile PTs can just spam Flame Burst xD. Don't kid yourself, Pyro PT is much more effective than Merc PT in almost any situation...the fact that PTs don't rely on, as you mentioned, channeled abilities makes a whole world of difference. Not to mention Charged Bolts/Power Shot deals trash dmg in comparison to Flame Burst...AND it requires activation... Yeah, I love my merc but PT's have just much more uptime in terms of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yeah, I love my merc but PT's have just much more uptime in terms of damage. Yep. It's just really hard to balance a class that needs to turret with one that can instant cast all their heavy hitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevzz Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yep. It's just really hard to balance a class that needs to turret with one that can instant cast all their heavy hitters. Which is why I find Charged Bolts/Power Shot stupid to begin with...that dmg is bad and IMHO it should be instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckeyduckey Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Which is why I find Charged Bolts/Power Shot stupid to begin with...that dmg is bad and IMHO it should be instant. It's as high as Tracer/Grav lol, and has crit damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 If they at any point make it possible for Mercs to cast all the time we will all roll one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 VG/PT > Mando/Mercs as far as Assault/Pyrotech is concerned. Hands down, no contest. And neither need buffs to damage output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 PT`s do in PvE... it sucks when people ask you if you have a Merc or a Sniper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamesux Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Notice how that guy is doing 2v1`s and winning all the time? That is due to his burst, he kills people in seconds. How is that done? Offense: The burst is thanks to his min/maxed gear, his 30% surge on any crit(except stockstrike), the fact that pyro gets a lot of crit from talents and his uber cooldown giving them 15s of 25% crit for 15 seconds. Defense: His defense is mostly Adrenaline Rush, that is usually a 3min cooldown. But Pyro gets 6 sec reduction to that every time they take damage, they can have it reduced to 40 seconds. And they get 30% less damage while its up. 8 seconds of being basically immune to 1-2 people attacking you and end up at 35% after the 8 seconds are up EVERY 40ish seconds.... i think any class would love that. On top of that they have their 25% damage reduction for 15 seconds from their shield AND 25% to get ANY ATTACK(tech, elemental, etc) miss for 6 seconds every 45s. Time on target: You can`t kite them, they have a slow on their attacks, they have Hold the Line(movement impairing immunity(no slow, pull, root, etc.) for 6 seconds on a 30s cd, they can pull you to them, a 4s stun, a 2.5 AOE(5 people) stun and their attacks are 10m range, so they can kite melee by staying over 4m and below 10m range. Why is this not yet OP? Because you don`t see a lot of them yet... they were nerfed and people stopped playing them. In ranked, they are the most powerful class right now(tied with marauders/sentinels), even the nr. 1 player is a Powertech. Conclusion: Buffing anything about their damage would make for an even better burst... and it would mean people would start playing this class in large numbers. That would be a PvP disaster.... Any buff to damage must come with a nerf to their defensive cd`s - for example removing the cd reduction to adrenaline rush and giving them a CD reduction to Hold the Line(mercenary has a cd reduction to their knockback, not to Adrenaline Rush) - however i doubt PvP players would like that... I'm a PvP'er and I would love to see a slight nerf to this spec. It's ridiculous. Its what i've been trying to say on these forums for the past few days, but you pretty much explained it very eloquently. Nerf PT DPS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 VG/PT > Mando/Mercs as far as Assault/Pyrotech is concerned. Hands down, no contest. And neither need buffs to damage output. This I'll agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discbox Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 still weak compared to what it used to be. So you want everything unbalanced again? How it used to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yes they need to handle this carefully or it will make them as OP as they used to be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Notice how that guy is doing 2v1`s and winning all the time? That is due to his burst, he kills people in seconds. How is that done? Offense: The burst is thanks to his min/maxed gear, his 30% surge on any crit(except stockstrike), the fact that pyro gets a lot of crit from talents and his uber cooldown giving them 15s of 25% crit for 15 seconds. Defense: His defense is mostly Adrenaline Rush, that is usually a 3min cooldown. But Pyro gets 6 sec reduction to that every time they take damage, they can have it reduced to 40 seconds. And they get 30% less damage while its up. 8 seconds of being basically immune to 1-2 people attacking you and end up at 35% after the 8 seconds are up EVERY 40ish seconds.... i think any class would love that. On top of that they have their 25% damage reduction for 15 seconds from their shield AND 25% to get ANY ATTACK(tech, elemental, etc) miss for 6 seconds every 45s. Time on target: You can`t kite them, they have a slow on their attacks, they have Hold the Line(movement impairing immunity(no slow, pull, root, etc.) for 6 seconds on a 30s cd, they can pull you to them, a 4s stun, a 2.5 AOE(5 people) stun and their attacks are 10m range, so they can kite melee by staying over 4m and below 10m range. Why is this not yet OP? Because you don`t see a lot of them yet... they were nerfed and people stopped playing them. In ranked, they are the most powerful class right now(tied with marauders/sentinels), even the nr. 1 player is a Powertech. Conclusion: Buffing anything about their damage would make for an even better burst... and it would mean people would start playing this class in large numbers. That would be a PvP disaster.... Any buff to damage must come with a nerf to their defensive cd`s - for example removing the cd reduction to adrenaline rush and giving them a CD reduction to Hold the Line(mercenary has a cd reduction to their knockback, not to Adrenaline Rush) - however i doubt PvP players would like that... Pyro PT's are about the same as carnage marauders and deception sins with regards to offensive power, defense, and viability. Nerfing PT's will just make the other two even more ridiculous than they are now. You can't hit one with the bat without the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missandei Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Seeing that you DEVS seem to be in the mood to rebuff everything you tuned down from 1.2 to 2.0 can we have our old DOT strength back on assault cell VG and while your at it we can have the 15% armour ignore back from 45% to the original 60% it was in the bottom of the tactics tree This will put us back on par with sin and operative after recent buffs and also fix the fact that the only real viable pve dps build for vanguards was a hybrid 2/22/22 in plasma cell, now the recent changes to pulse cannon stacks only working in high energy cell broke our best pve dps build. its time to revisit this class. Vanguards are utterly destroy me (overbuffed Operative - op class.) Nerf them. Buff Operatives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallistic Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Darkness assassins is not even in the ballpark now from what it was at release...Heck it's not even in the same sport. Now if you're referring to deception it was so-so back at launch but when they put the cap on surge, changed wz adrenals and removed on demand relics their burst took a dive but not as much as concealment which had been put into the ground with nerfs and now they're finally back and deception has been in a really good spot for almost a year now. The changes you described affected ALL of the classes. Did I seriously witness an assassin play the victim card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The changes you described affected ALL of the classes. Did I seriously witness an assassin play the victim card? He's a madness sin. He has more right to play the card than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The changes you described affected ALL of the classes. Did I seriously witness an assassin play the victim card? How am I playing th...What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamesux Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Pyro PT's are about the same as carnage marauders and deception sins with regards to offensive power, defense, and viability. Nerfing PT's will just make the other two even more ridiculous than they are now. You can't hit one with the bat without the other two. Does a Sent or Sin DPS have a pull? No. Can a Sin DPS use Shadow Strike in front of someone? No. Can a Sent throw annoying DOT attacks such as that grenade and spam DOTs? No. Can a Sent switch from DPS stance to a Tank stance? No. Can a Sin spam their Resilience every 30 seconds? No. Does a Sent have an ability like Hydraulic Overrides to stop movement impairing effects every 30 seconds? No. Can both these classes kite and play both ranged and melee? No. PT DPS is ridiculous. Edited February 13, 2014 by Gamesux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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