Premades in Deathmatch

[wishihadaname]

The mode has only been out for 1 day and already there are roving premades in maxed out ships and on voice comm. While annoying and difficult to beat in ground side PVP, they are unstoppable in Deathmatch mode in GSF for one very simple reason. They can call out targets. Being able to go into your voice chat and say "hey guys, everyone lock missles on target X" allows you to make damn sure that target X either dies or runs. You cannot win a 4v1 in GSF, and if you're not a scout you probably can't run either. Communication is critical and its something that pugs in GSF have none of. You can't type and fly, you will either crash or be shot down.

 

This MUST be fixed is the game mode isn't to become "join a guild or be farmed by guilds". (Before anyone asks, I AM in a guild, I don't premade out of principle. I'de rather have a fun and challenging match than farm comms for a ship that i've already mastered...). The way I see it there are 3 possible solutions:

 

1) Allow a pug only que. Have a little checkbox in the que menu that says "Do not que vs. groups". This is bad because it increases que times, but good because it allows new people and pugs a fair fight.

 

2) Add voice macros to GSF. Numbers 1-4 are abilities, 5-8 should blast the following commands over the radio "Focus this target (and a big red X flashes on the minimap)", "Push into them", "Fall back", and "Need support (big blue X flashes on you on the minimap).

 

3) Ban premade groups. Harsh, simple, utterly effective, and obviously very unpopular.

 

I really hope they do #2 and they do it soon. If they don't then I doubt i'll be doing much flying until they do either 1 or 3.

[DewyMossEmpire]

Premades are a part of PvP, & they're not going to stop.

 

Fight fire with fire if you have to, form your own premades.

[wishihadaname]

Its not a matter of have to, its a matter of want to. I don't enjoy fights that are one sided. I know a lot of people do (hence the rush of "elite" premades farming the F2P guys on their first day flying). This isn't about whether you like competition or stroking your epeen with 3 of your best buds. Its about a very distinct advantage that third party voice communication software gives to people who use it.

 

In fact, you could almost qualify it as an exploit because it is a piece of third party software that allows a select group of players to outcompete anyone who doesn't use it, and it is exclusive because not everyone wants to be in a guild, and not every guild can afford a VO server.

 

This needs fixing, and obviously i'm not advocating for banning premades, i'm asking for voice commands bound to hotkeys 5-8 so that communication isn't reliant on being in a guild with a voice server.

[Discount_Bob]

Honestly, it doesn't make sense to me when a person says, "This legitimate behavior (around which online games is built) is much too effective; therefore, I choose to not take advantage of this behavior. Please remove the ability for other people to utilize said benefit."

 

I agree that premades are brutal at times. I've been on the receiving end, and I've gotten ticked off about it plenty of times. Still, though, it's not their fault that I chose not to group up with my buddies (or my buddies sucked!).

 

Allowing people to choose not to queue with or against groups is, I guess, the most feasible option, but then we're looking at HUGE queue times. The only way to even possibly prevent incredibly long wait times would be cross-server queues, which is unlikely to happen. Basically, there's no good way to fix premades vs. solo queuing players, except for the solo people to find a group.

 

I'd give a +1 for the communication stuff, though. That would at least allow people playing as a premade without VOIP the ability to coordinate slightly better.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Discount_Bob

[DewyMossEmpire]

That's ridiculous, voice chat is a an optional tool that gives a huge advantage in any kind of MMO gaming, be it competitive PvE or PvP. Getting upset because you lose to a premade is the opposing premade's objective. Take your marbles & fly as best you can, & then queue for another match! Edited February 4, 2014 by DewyMossEmpire

[wishihadaname]

I put in option #3 is a joke mostly. Of course I neither want nor expect bioware to remove the ability to fly with friends. The reason I don't premade is in my signature actually. I prefer to get my *** handed to me and get a bit better at evasion in the process than fly with 3 other great pilots against a bunch of pugs still trying to figure out which button is the thrusters. And i'm not asking for them to remove the ability to use voice chat (not even possible really).

 

All i'm saying is that voice chat is a must in this sort of gameplay in order to have any semblance of coordination as a team. Make as well make it free for all if you're not gonna have voice chat. Since this game refuses to set up dedicated voice servers, then they should at least add voice commands to GSF to give pugs some level of communication.

 

For me this isn't about flying with friends or flying alone, its about evening the playing field at least a bit because right now, against a premade, I just go explore the map and hunt stragglers because I know that the match is lost from the moment I joined it.

[DewyMossEmpire]

Trust me, I know what that's like >.> I've had premades come after me, litterally, the entire match. 2 Strike Fighters hunting me down the entire match, & I got my butt kicked. But I queued up again after that & had a rock 'em sock 'em match.

 

The best part is, in some of those other matches, I'd find people who are normally in their premades pugging, & sure enough, without their little posse, flying solo they are terrible.

[HuaRya]

The lack of a Solo Queue where you play other Solo Queued players is what will eventually turn the casual gamer away from SWTOR. The 'casual gamer' is defined as one who has limited time to play the game and uses groupfinder to run flashpoints, ops, and warzones.

 

 

Having played PVP and now GSF since inception I've noticed this culture of the twelve year old mindset running their premades in non-ranked warzone under the notion of 'practice'. Having been on three or four servers they are characteristically cliquish and closed to new members unless you are a healer. They are also quite bored of the game and spend their time farming pugs.

 

The Devs will realize too late (when a better game comes along) that they should've gave the option to play in solo vs solo arenas and groups with groups. Each is an entirely different kind of game play.

[DewyMossEmpire]

The lack of a Solo Queue where you play other Solo Queued players is what will eventually turn the casual gamer away from SWTOR. The 'casual gamer' is defined as one who has limited time to play the game and uses groupfinder to run flashpoints, ops, and warzones.

 

 

Having played PVP and now GSF since inception I've noticed this culture of the twelve year old mindset running their premades in non-ranked warzone under the notion of 'practice'. Having been on three or four servers they are characteristically cliquish and closed to new members unless you are a healer. They are also quite bored of the game and spend their time farming pugs.

 

The Devs will realize too late (when a better game comes along) that they should've gave the option to play in solo vs solo arenas and groups with groups. Each is an entirely different kind of game play.

 

Filtering to queue with groups vs. solo is a good idea in hypothesis, but it would never work. The queue times would be about as fast as trying to queue for Ranked PvP, solo ~or grouped, if not slower.

[Xnemth]

Simple, three key press team message binds worked wonderfully back in the day BEFORE we used voice com. In the original Tribes, there was an extensive communication menu accessed by pressing V.

 

Then there were topic categories, and finally the message you wanted to send within the category. VFS = Our Flag is Secure. Quick, easy, very effective.

 

We could benefit from a simplified version, and it wouldn't be too hard to build into the game.

 

Here's a link to the more extensive version used in the current Tribes game, should give you an idea.

 

http://www.tribesascendwiki.com/Voice_Game_System

[EzioMessi]

I agree that keybinds for 1. focus X; 2. defend X 3; Incoming X; 4. Minefield around X; 5. Hyperspace Beacon at X; 6. Heals near X and so on would be really really helpful.

 

But I disagree that premades are the source of the problem. Bad PuGs will always find something to complain for. Want proof? Look at the Solo Ranked Arena Queues. No premades there. The one-sided stomping doesn't seem to have stopped. Agreed, a lot of that stomping can be realistically blamed on Class imbalances, Faction imbalances and a generally high number of idiots queuing up, but the same applies to GSF too; the team with the Bomber will always have a slight advantage over the team without one.

 

So yeah, premades aren't the problem. But hotkey commands are awesome.

[LegoUniverseBC]

So...? It's no different then a premade in domination. I find this gamemode quite fun (not as much as domination) and that it doesn't need a premade to do. I can't wait for the Cargo run gamemode when that comes out.

[Zoom_VI]

I'm still trying to figure out how people know they are facing a premade as the match starts. There are no guild tags or personal identifiers beyond player name.

 

I feel like 90% of these "premades" are just people seeing stuff where there is none. I have seen many a PuG roflstomp other pugs. In fact PuG v PuG is just as likely if not more so to be horribly imbalanced.

[LegoUniverseBC]

I'm still trying to figure out how people know they are facing a premade as the match starts. There are no guild tags or personal identifiers beyond player name.

 

I feel like 90% of these "premades" are just people seeing stuff where there is none. I have seen many a PuG roflstomp other pugs. In fact PuG v PuG is just as likely if not more so to be horribly imbalanced.

^This.

I think it's just people playing against a couple of skilled players and thinking they are premades.

[RebekahWSD]

I'm still trying to figure out how people know they are facing a premade as the match starts. There are no guild tags or personal identifiers beyond player name.

 

I feel like 90% of these "premades" are just people seeing stuff where there is none. I have seen many a PuG roflstomp other pugs. In fact PuG v PuG is just as likely if not more so to be horribly imbalanced.

 

There aren't that many people playing (or weren't until today). The names of the aces become familiar. When you see several of them together chances are they queued together. I even queue with them from time to time.

 

Bear in mind I'm not saying this is a problem, just saying the regular teams are easy to recognize.

[Armonddd]

I'm still trying to figure out how people know they are facing a premade as the match starts. There are no guild tags or personal identifiers beyond player name.

 

I feel like 90% of these "premades" are just people seeing stuff where there is none. I have seen many a PuG roflstomp other pugs. In fact PuG v PuG is just as likely if not more so to be horribly imbalanced.

 

I recognize all the good names I fly against, and I've talked to and flown with most of them. It's pretty obvious when eight people from black or death squadron load into a match that they're running together.

[Nethgilne]

This has probably been suggested already, but what about req bonuses for damaging/killing an enemy player flying with a group?

 

This bonus would scale with the size of the premade.

[EzioMessi]

This has probably been suggested already, but what about req bonuses for damaging/killing an enemy player flying with a group?

 

This bonus would scale with the size of the premade.

 

How about no.

 

Encourage people to group up for an MMO. Don't discourage 'em.

[Lyet]

I am having trouble thinking of a way for the Dev Team to implement your second suggestion in a way that trolls wont abuse. Yes, in a pug where all 8/12 players are focused on winning and contributing to their team's success, the suggestion would help vs. premades. But imagine how fun it would be if you were trying to use these commands to help your team, then one or two of your team members starts spamming commands that are no help...

 

As someone who solo queues and flies with buddies, I think your ideas are creative and stimulating exercises, but I would lobby hard against them (Maybe not against suggestion #1--solo and group queues seperated--with the right implementation). Banning playing with your friends is a great way to push the player base away from your shiny new toy. Similarly, the opportunities for trolling with your suggestion #2 scare me.

 

Maybe I might be less leery of the idea if there is also a way to opt out of having to hear/read such commands?

 

As a side note, what information is this suggestion providing to the team that they can't already get? When I fly, I constantly keep tabs on which satellites are controlled by which team, how many turrets each satellite has, and which satellites have an enemy within range. If your teammates are not aware of this information (all of which is readily available on the screen right now. If you ["you" being anyone who is reading this] don't know, it's all part of the scoreboard and your fleet commander tells you when a satellite is lost, etc....), then how much help do you think your commands will be? Lone Rangers and "Heros" are going to do their own thing, regardless...

[Verain]

whoa whoa guys

 

this game is multiplayer?

 

 

that sounds unfair rite?

[HoloGrinder]

Premade groups have broken GSF. I agree totally but if death match frustrates you wait till you try to take a satellite that they have all dropped drones on... can't be done.

[Prydin_Thule]

Overall yes groups that are maxed out are annoying as they could ever be. The biggest issue that I have is when I decide to stay despite valiant efforts for kills, obj captures, drones etc you will get a whopping total of around 200 req. that is why I quit now.

 

If during this fights we at least for a minimum of 500 for staying it wouldn't be so bad.

 

Once I got my sting I've done a lot better since I have the best of both worlds and dish a little more damage (not a fan of GS or SF).

 

Hopefully things will dwindle down in the next few days but who knows. I'd prefer a solo option that strictly puts all players in solo not against groups. That is the only way to minimize the problem.

[wishihadaname]

^ Grab a quell/pike, fire an ion torpedo. Win.

 

Back to what I was talking about. The voice commands could have a 30s cooldown between uses to reduce trolling?

 

As for how you can tell premades? I usually can't right off the bat, but it becomes rather painfully obvious that someone is on voice chat based off of how they play and how quickly they respond. Focus fire, rapid response, and dedicated wingmen are not something you see among pugs.

 

And again, since some people don't read well, I'll repeat myself. Yes this is a multi player game and I have no issues with people playing multi player. I am simply pointing out that GSF relies heavily on coordination and that voice communication, or at least macroed commands, is needed in order for players without voice chat to be able to have any sort of chance vs players with voice chat.

[Mallorik]

I hate going against good premades when im alone but some people really need them, ive seen several premades today that still lost.

[HoloGrinder]

Overall yes groups that are maxed out are annoying as they could ever be. The biggest issue that I have is when I decide to stay despite valiant efforts for kills, obj captures, drones etc you will get a whopping total of around 200 req. that is why I quit now.

 

If during this fights we at least for a minimum of 500 for staying it wouldn't be so bad.

 

Once I got my sting I've done a lot better since I have the best of both worlds and dish a little more damage (not a fan of GS or SF).

 

Hopefully things will dwindle down in the next few days but who knows. I'd prefer a solo option that strictly puts all players in solo not against groups. That is the only way to minimize the problem.

 

I like everything you just said!