Ottoattack Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) This argument is ridiculous. How is GSF, fundamentally, different than ground PvP? Just by the fact that you're in a ship? You still have to gear up, strategize, grind, and all that other stuff. And you are playing against other players in combat. It's the same thing with a different mask. Calling it a mini-game is insulting to every designer and coder who worked on it. Is Call Of Duty a PvP? Yes. Do you have to strategize and maybe grind? Ya. Does that make an MMO? No. Why? Cuz MMO be definition involve using an avatar to perform specific objectives and/or content, and FPS are a completely different type of game. SWTOR is an MMO. GSF is not. GSF is a mini game in an MMO, nothing less or more. It is not a core mechanic in the game and never will be, because it does not involve using your avatar (character/class/toon w.e you want to call them). You can call it space combat, flight simulator or w.e your heart please, it is not an MMO content. The fact that it is PvP based does not make it MMO PvP content, as much as FPS, sports games or GTA are not considered MMOs. When players come here to the forums and mention the term "PvP" it means using their avatars against other avatars to achieve a specific objective. And when the OP mentioned PvP, he did not mean GSF PvP, but PvP that involves your avatar. Even BW considered "PvP" and "GSF" to be completely different things, thus they separated their forums and moderators actively removed GSF threads from PvP forums. Wither you agree or not, when the OP mentioned "PvP" he meant PvP involving his avatar not space PvP. And yes, PvP is being shafted big time through out the game history, and the road map includes nothing except 1 WZ in six month. FYI, we have PvE servers and PvP servers, cuz both are fundamental parts of an MMO, anything else in an MMO is additional content, mini game, w.e you want to call it. It is not a core part of the game. When we have GSF server, will talk about GSF not being a mini game. Edited February 3, 2014 by Ottoattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'm not even replying or quoting him dude, I'm replying to people quoting me (mostly at least). The general idea of GSF is a PvP scenario - no doubt. But GSF is called GSF for a reason. PvP has always had their own forum where GROUND PvP is discussed. You're smart enough to realize that GSF and PvP are not the same gameplay styles. Well, until they put me up against AI-based GSF teams, it's pure PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Are you and I even reading the same thread? He has been attacking and slinging insults at everyone who disagrees with him. Who? I haven't seen any attacks or insults slung. If differences of opinion constitute attacks and insults then there has been plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzioMessi Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Anecdotes are totes excellent evidence, yo. Yes they are. Given that at least my anecdotal evidence can be cross-checked because I list my server name and legacy name for you guys to hunt me down in-game and see what I'm seeing. Your anecdotal evidence like, "I have a few friends who PvP, it's a very niche thing" can never be cross check because you don't even mention your own server. <--- Bastion of trustworthy evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 How many people do you have in your pocket when you use the term 'we' in your posts? Nitpick and troll as you see fit. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Absolutely not. Glad we agree. I'm glad we're friends again, mate! What are we agreeing upon? Being friends? Sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Yes they are. Given that at least my anecdotal evidence can be cross-checked because I list my server name and legacy name for you guys to hunt me down in-game and see what I'm seeing. Your anecdotal evidence like, "I have a few friends who PvP, it's a very niche thing" can never be cross check because you don't even mention your own server. <--- Bastion of trustworthy evidence The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it's based in personal perspective. It's unscientific and basically needs to be dismissed out of hand. Which is what I'm doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well, until they put me up against AI-based GSF teams, it's pure PVP. We agree that PvP is the main goal in GSF...but explain to me this...what do you discuss in the PVP FORUM? What is discussed in the GSF FORUM? Why are they separated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzioMessi Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it's based in personal perspective. It's unscientific and basically needs to be dismissed out of hand. Which is what I'm doing. No, what you are doing is stating your ridiculous argument that PvP is a niche gamemode that no one plays. It's funny, how you are the biggest perpetrator of exactly what you keep accusing others of doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well, GSF 'is' PVP, no matter what people want to believe it is. it's silly to try and say that it isn't. GSF is PvP in the same way that the old space system was content. It meets the technical requirements, but is not what someone would picture if you said MMO PvP or Space Simulator. People on the forum typically specify GSF separately from "PvP" when speaking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 We agree that PvP is the main goal in GSF...but explain to me this...what do you discuss in the PVP FORUM? What is discussed in the GSF FORUM? Why are they separated? Convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Is Call Of Duty a PvP? Yes. Do you have to strategize and maybe grind? Ya. Does that make an MMO? No. Why? Cuz MMO be definition involve using an avatar to perform specific objectives and/or content, and FPS are a completely different type of game. SWTOR is an MMO. GSF is not. GSF is a mini game in an MMO, nothing less or more. It is not a core mechanic in the game and never will be, because it does not involve using your avatar (character/class/toon w.e you want to call them). You can call it space combat, flight simulator or w.e your heart please, it is not an MMO content. The fact that it is PvP based does not make it MMO PvP content, as much as FPS, sports games or GTA are not considered MMOs. When players come here to the forums and mention the term "PvP" it means using their avatars against other avatars to achieve a specific objective. And when the OP mentioned PvP, he did not mean GSF PvP, but PvP that involves your avatar. Even BW considered "PvP" and "GSF" to be completely different things, thus they separated their forums and moderators actively removed GSF threads from PvP forums. Wither you agree or not, when the OP mentioned "PvP" he meant PvP involving his avatar not space PvP. And yes, PvP is being shafted big time through out the game history, and the road map includes nothing except 1 WZ in six month. FYI, we have PvE servers and PvP servers, cuz both are fundamental parts of an MMO, anything else in an MMO is additional content, mini game, w.e you want to call it. It is not a core part of the game. When we have GSF server, will talk about GSF not being a mini game. Um... what? Thanks for sharing. We'll just have to agree to disagree on, well, everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 GSF is PvP in the same way that the old space system was content. It meets the technical requirements, but is not what someone would picture if you said MMO PvP or Space Simulator. People on the forum typically specify GSF separately from "PvP" when speaking to it. They can do whatever they like, and feel however they like. But, GSF is still PVP, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Convenience. It's clear you're just trolling. I'm done with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 They can do whatever they like, and feel however they like. But, GSF is still PVP, regardless. Unless you feel like not understanding what anyone on the forum is talking about, you may consider adapting to this naming convention. Or you could just argue with everyone and get nowhere. Seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 It's clear you're just trolling. I'm done with you. Well, it 'is' convenient to have its own forum. Should I not have said 'convenience'? Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) Convenience. More like "clarity" and "practicality" in my opinion. If they did not give GSF it's own forum, then it would spill all over the PvP and General forum, and the PvPers that don't like it would be abusive towards GSF posts in the PvP forums (let's not even try to pretend otherwise), and that would in turn drive the GSF topics to general forum. Giving GSF it's own sub-forum was both smart and practical IMO. And I see absolutely no signs that they did so because GSF is somehow faux-PvP. It was done to promote clarity and focus of GSF discussions, and from a practical standpoint to reduce moderation resources to heard cats in the forum. Edited February 3, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Unless you feel like not understanding what anyone on the forum is talking about, you may consider adapting to this naming convention. Or you could just argue with everyone and get nowhere. Seems legit. EXACTLY!!! My guess is, he'll use it to create conflict and instigate fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldrenath Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 The general idea of GSF is a PvP scenario - no doubt. But GSF is called GSF for a reason. PvP has always had their own forum where GROUND PvP is discussed. You're smart enough to realize that GSF and PvP are not the same gameplay styles. I have to agree with TUXs on this one. Yes, GSF and warzones are both PvP. But they are very different games and in many cases attract completely different players. I have never run a single warzone in SWTOR and I've been playing since launch. I don't dig ground PvP in MMOs (and if you're guessing its because I'm terrible at it--you're 100% correct! ). But I play lots of GSF and enjoy it. And I've played with plenty of other folks that don't like ground PvP and never do it but play plenty of GSF. GSF is PvP, yes, because it pits players against other players. But it is very different from ground PvP and in my personal experience and isn't the same. At this point the argument is getting silly (well, it was many pages ago). Whatever the OP said and whatever you think the OP meant he was definitely referring to ground PvP. Even if it wasn't specifically stated in the original post that he meant ground PvP, at this point the OP has made it abundantly clear that he was in fact referring to ground PvP. One can argue the merits of whether the OPs opinion is right or wrong regarding ground PvP, but how about we all agree that the OP definitely meant ground PvP and center the discussion on his actual point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why is that a bad thing? I love Huttball! ^^this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraonaiMimnov Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 RIP means rest in peace, so you basically said rest in peace in peace. Also: Four out of the five things listed for 2.6 are for PvP. Two out of the four things listed for 2.7 are for PvP. One out of the two things listed for 2.8 are for PvP. Don't forget the Devs give PVP Griefers plenty of things to do during events on PVE servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzioMessi Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Don't forget the Devs give PVP Griefers plenty of things to do during events on PVE servers. Yes indeed. Idiot noobs ganking another group of idiot noobs counts as content.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 GSF is PvP, yes, because it pits players against other players. But it is very different from ground PvP and in my personal experience and isn't the same. No disagreement here. Less divisiveness among the PvP players about PvP would be a good thing IMO. As for the game.. what gets played the most will continue to get more attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elminster_cs Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Don't forget the Devs give PVP Griefers plenty of things to do during events on PVE servers. Hope you are joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rynis Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Lol can't believe i went through 10 pages of GSF IS PVP or Isn't... I felt like I was listen to my sisters argue. It's obvious what the OP meant and to feel the need to argue about it entertained me for a good 10 minutes so thank you . 1 new warzone in a year or something? GG ground pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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