A sad day for PVP

[EzioMessi]

Maybe PVP just isn't as popular as people want to believe it is.

 

I dunno. On my server there's anywhere between 100-200 players doing wzs during prime time, while for the past 2 months, I have never seen more than 2 simultaneous GSF games going on.

 

GSF had over 300 players playing simultaneously on sub early access day. Right now, never more than 40. Never. I think it's quite evident which one is more popular.

 

The only difference is that GSF can be milked for Cartel Coins and ground PvP can't. So they'll keep on releasing content for a niche gamemode that roughly a fiftieth of my server plays.

Edited February 3, 2014 by EzioMessi

[Beslley]

Then i'm pretty sure you don't know how to PVP

 

Lots of people trying to forum PvP, though.

[JattaGin]

You PVP guys were disappointed since this game is released yet you are still here, complaining. Sorry, you don't have much credibility. Fill out those ranked pvp queues first (if you can find time from ganking newbies)

 

Boom, baby!

 

10/10 for that and already marked for my "post of the year award" (there is strong competition though).

[PurpleCliff]

Personally I definitely don't count GSF as main PvP content. It's more like a mini-game.

[AlienEyeTX]

Yeah, we've had TONS of high-end PvE content.

PvP has most certainly gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to content releases, but that doesn't mean that PvE's release schedule is hunky-dory, either.

 

Well, I can't won't be able to get you to admit that you're wrong, so I won't even put up the argument. But after reading your posts in different threads, we can all see who looks foolish here.

[Icebergy]

Bioware doesn't either, hence separate queues and forums.

 

There's separate queues for hard mode flashpoints and story mode flashpoints as well, but they are all still flashpoints.

[AlienEyeTX]

Personally I definitely don't count GSF as main PvP content. It's more like a mini-game.

 

In as much as ground PvP is a minii-game. To each his/her own.

[Froippi]

simple solutation for Que is cross server que but they try to say the tech don't exsist which i don't agree with that its more they don't wanna put the money into it

[EzioMessi]

That pretty much is the sign of them not really having an argument. They just want to irritate with semantics. I could just as well irritate when high end raiders start complaining and say they just had themselve an event and are getting new Flashpoints and those are all PvE. They got an entire planet even.

 

Exactly. I mean, they're getting 3 Flashpoints, 2 "brand new" raids, and an entirely new solo series of fetch and kill quests!

 

And yet all hardcore raiding guilds have been posting about quitting for a game with more hardcore content.

 

The defenders can convince themselves that a new lightsaber crystal is content.

[Andryah]

That pretty much is the sign of them not really having an argument. They just want to irritate with semantics. I could just as well irritate when high end raiders start complaining and say they just had themselve an event and are getting new Flashpoints and those are all PvE. They got an entire planet even.

 

Let's be honest here. The PvP players are a very fractured group of players... and very parochial about their preference in play style and dismissive of any other play styles. What is PvP to one, is not PvP to another, etc., etc.

 

GSF is player on player and group players on group players. Anyone that wants to parochially dismiss that as not PvP because they prefer warzones, or arenas, or open world, or mano-a-mano is free to do so. But that does not change anything about the game and it's player vs player mechanics. GSF is one form of player on player combat mechanics in this particular MMO. Just because a player does not like it or does not play it, does not change what it is. Declaring it not PvP is just crab walking around their disappointments that other forms of PvP are not meeting their needs/wants/desires.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Andryah

[Ottoattack]

Wait... what?

 

You mean all those things shooting at you and that you shoot back at are computer-controlled rather than player-controlled? Seriously?

 

I've been misled. I demand compensation and an apology! What a slap in the face!

 

I think there is a misunderstanding what "PvP" is. PvP means player is using his/her character to participate in content against other players using their character to achive a specific objective. You may call is MMO PvP.

 

GSF is PvP but it is not MMO PvP. GSF is a mini game. If BW implement Pazak and I play it against other players is that PvP content too? Of course not, neither is GSF or any content that does not involve using my character. If BW released a whole bunch of space content that you fight AI, or Pazak against AI, would that be considered "PvE" content? Of course not.

 

If SWTOR devs implement a first person shooter within SWTOR, that is PvP based would that also MMO PvP content?

Edited February 3, 2014 by Ottoattack

[Icebergy]

If BW released a whole bunch of space content that you fight AI, or Pazak against AI, would that be considered "PvE" content? Of course not.

 

Yes it would. Would it qualify as Operations? No. Would it qualify as Flashpoints? No. But it would fall under the general sphere of PvE. Just like GSF falls under the sphere of PvP.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Icebergy

[Technohic]

Let's be honest here. The PvP players are a very fractured group of players... and very parochial about their preference in play style and dismissive of any other play styles. What is PvP to one, is not PvP to another, etc., etc.

 

GSF is player on player and group players on group players. Anyone that wants to parochially dismiss that as not PvP because they prefer warzones, or arenas, or open world, or mano-a-mano is free to do so. But that does not change anything about the game and it's player vs player mechanics. GSF is one form of player on player combat mechanics in this particular MMO. Just because a player does not like it or does not play it, does not change what it is.

 

Understood, but it is irrelevant to what the OP means. It is just a troll method of changing the argument to be about whats PvP or not rather than whether they have came out with the ground combat the OP is talking about or not. It is not the players fault that the devs decided to do a space PvP that barely anyone asked for and now that is supposed to be their content any more than if you are in a progression PvE guild and they suddenly decide that these new tactical FPs are all they are going to do now.

 

You are a defender of this game and I can only assume because you love the game. I do not see why we would want to irritate any more even if we don't agree with someone. This game needs players to stay afloat, so it would be more beneficial to seek an understanding rather than keep poking at some buttons.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Technohic

[Andryah]

I think there is a misunderstanding what "PvP" is. PvP means player is using his/her character to participate in content against other players using their character to achive a specific objective. You may call is MMO PvP.

 

Hehe... mind boggling.

 

PvP is what you are doing against another player to kill them, or incapacitate them in lieu of killing them. What you wear and what you use as a weapon is contextual to the killing mechanics... but you are still working to kill/incapacitate an opposing real player.

 

Player VERSUS Player.

 

It's totally fine if you think GSF as a form of PvP sucks the back side of a Bantha. But let's not pretend it's not PvP.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Andryah

[AlienEyeTX]

I think there is a misunderstanding what "PvP" is. PvP means player is using his/her character to participate in content against other players using their character to achive a specific objective. You may call is MMO PvP.

 

GSF is PvP but it is not MMO PvP. GSF is a mini game. If BW implement Pazak and I play it against other players is that PvP content too? Of course not, neither is GSF or any content that does not involve using my character. If BW released a whole bunch of space content that you fight AI, or Pazak against AI, would that be considered "PvE" content? Of course not.

 

This argument is ridiculous. How is GSF, fundamentally, different than ground PvP? Just by the fact that you're in a ship? You still have to gear up, strategize, grind, and all that other stuff. And you are playing against other players in combat. It's the same thing with a different mask. Calling it a mini-game is insulting to every designer and coder who worked on it.

[Infernixx]

Then i'm pretty sure you don't know how to PVP

 

It's not hard, stop pretending like it is.

[EzioMessi]

Let's be honest here. The PvP players are a very fractured group of players... and very parochial about their preference in play style and dismissive of any other play styles. What is PvP to one, is not PvP to another, etc., etc.

 

GSF is player on player and group players on group players. Anyone that wants to parochially dismiss that as not PvP because they prefer warzones, or arenas, or open world, or mano-a-mano is free to do so. But that does not change anything about the game and it's player vs player mechanics. GSF is one form of player on player combat mechanics in this particular MMO.

 

I don't think you're quit getting the point of OP and other "fractured whiners" among us. GSF is obviously PvP, yet cannot be any more different from the PvP the "fractured group of whiners" love. Arguing that it is PvP is not going to make them like it any more or less.

 

The same can be applied to raids too. How much would PvErs whine if tomorrow Bioware announced that Flashpoints and Operations will be discontinued from tomorrow, in favour of fetch and kill solo PvE quests?

 

Obviously, the forums would be filled with outrage, and the game would die a very sudden death with the departure of nearly all PvE guilds. Of course, they were still getting PvE content right?

 

I mean, let's be honest solo PvE is PvE, and PvErs are just a fractured group of players, dismissive of other playstyles. What is PvE to one is not PvE to another.

 

Solo kill quests involve players fighting against scripted pixels. Anyone that wants to parochially dismiss that it's not PvE since it's not a group of players fighting those scripted pixels is free to do so. But that does not change anything about the game and it's player vs environment mechanics. Solo quests are a form of PvE combat in the mechanics of this MMO.

[Andryah]

I don't think you're quit getting the point of OP and other "fractured whiners" among us. GSF is obviously PvP, yet cannot be any more different from the PvP the "fractured group of whiners" love. Arguing that it is PvP is not going to make them like it any more or less.

 

Oh I get what they are upset about. They want the PvP style that they want.. and those that do not like GSF see it as a resource drain from their pet PvP preference.

 

I just wish they would be honest about what they want, and not feel compelled to dismiss GSF, or any other variant of player-versus-player action in SWTOR as part of expressing their desires. It's a completely dishonest approach, IMO.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Andryah

[Icebergy]

The same can be applied to raids too. How much would PvErs whine if tomorrow Bioware announced that Flashpoints and Operations will be discontinued from tomorrow, in favour of fetch and kill solo PvE quests?

 

Obviously, the forums would be filled with outrage, and the game would die a very sudden death with the departure of nearly all PvE guilds. Of course, they were still getting PvE content right?

 

Personally I wouldn't "fill the forums with outrage", I would just cancel my subscription and move on.

[TUXs]

This argument is ridiculous. How is GSF, fundamentally, different than ground PvP? Just by the fact that you're in a ship? You still have to gear up, strategize, grind, and all that other stuff. And you are playing against other players in combat. It's the same thing with a different mask. Calling it a mini-game is insulting to every designer and coder who worked on it.

 

Uh...there are 4 buttons in GSF vs an abundance of skills in ground PvP. There is no "gear" in space PvP, just trees to pick.

 

It is honestly nothing more than a mini-game AlienEyeTX. I LOVE GSF, I wish the queue's popped more often, but it's got TWO flipping maps...it's the very definition of a mini-game.

[kodrac]

In as much as ground PvP is a minii-game. To each his/her own.

 

Yes, I see lots of raiders in warzones in their uber 72s and 78s with no expertise being complete wastes of space in the warzone. Clearly warzones are viewed as mini games by raiders which in turns makes the warzone a waste of time. We don't come to flashpoints and ops undergeared. The devs obviously agree. They've given up on PvP as endgame content.

[Infernixx]

I don't think you're quit getting the point of OP and other "fractured whiners" among us. GSF is obviously PvP, yet cannot be any more different from the PvP the "fractured group of whiners" love. Arguing that it is PvP is not going to make them like it any more or less.

 

The same can be applied to raids too. How much would PvErs whine if tomorrow Bioware announced that Flashpoints and Operations will be discontinued from tomorrow, in favour of fetch and kill solo PvE quests?

 

Obviously, the forums would be filled with outrage, and the game would die a very sudden death with the departure of nearly all PvE guilds. Of course, they were still getting PvE content right?

 

I mean, let's be honest solo PvE is PvE, and PvErs are just a fractured group of players, dismissive of other playstyles. What is PvE to one is not PvE to another.

 

Solo kill quests involve players fighting against scripted pixels. Anyone that wants to parochially dismiss that it's not PvE since it's not a group of players fighting those scripted pixels is free to do so. But that does not change anything about the game and it's player vs environment mechanics. Solo quests are a form of PvE combat in the mechanics of this MMO.

 

Yah, except no one's ending any sort of PVP content at all. You still have your WZs and Ranked PVP stuff and GSF. Be glad you get what you do, considering it's a niche mini-game.

[DarthTHC]

I think there is a misunderstanding what "PvP" is. PvP means player is using his/her character to participate in content against other players using their character to achive a specific objective. You may call is MMO PvP.

 

GSF is PvP but it is not MMO PvP. GSF is a mini game. If BW implement Pazak and I play it against other players is that PvP content too? Of course not, neither is GSF or any content that does not involve using my character. If BW released a whole bunch of space content that you fight AI, or Pazak against AI, would that be considered "PvE" content? Of course not.

 

If SWTOR devs implement a first person shooter within SWTOR, that is PvP based would that also MMO PvP content?

 

I agree that there is probably a misunderstanding.

 

You see, that "PvP" is an acronym. It stands for "Player versus Player". In other words, players combating each other.

 

It includes no other conditions. If Player-A enters into a contest against Player-B, that is, by definition, PvP.

 

Therefore, GSF is, indeed, PvP.

 

You could further categorize it if you would like, and that would be fine. In this game there's ranked and warzones and GSF and world and even GTN PvP. Maybe I even missed some. But they're all PvP.

 

My point is, the statement to which I replied, specifically, "GSF is not PvP," is patently false.

Edited February 3, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Infernixx]

Uh...there are 4 buttons in GSF vs an abundance of skills in ground PvP. There is no "gear" in space PvP, just trees to pick.

 

It is honestly nothing more than a mini-game AlienEyeTX. I LOVE GSF, I wish the queue's popped more often, but it's got TWO flipping maps...it's the very definition of a mini-game.

 

Of course it's a mini-game. It's PVP.

[Andryah]

Of course it's a mini-game. It's PVP.

 

Yeah.. following his logic... all PvP is mini-game in nature. The only PvP that might not be a mini-game would be open world PvP.. but even that is a stretch when open world content is still instanced.