WTB, w/ coins, alternate ani's for Consular project and throw - no more junkyard jedi

[Master-Nala]

OMF'inG. I'm glad I revisited this thread, it's too good. Nala must be a dumb kid, or a really dumb adult. Really!@?! Reason based on emotion, rather than logic. Please~~. GT F O. No really. No one takes you seriously, go plague some other thread with your stupid trolldom. Completely agree with the other opinions offered, as it's totally reasonable that which is being proposed. Furthermore, if people want it to be reflected on the Imperial side, say for ex.: let people use red force lightning just like Darth Nihilus' in KOTOR II. That would be pretty awesome, with a simple color change, we get more variation (and of course, players love things that tie into the KOTORs).

 

I feel there quote from Master Yoda is appropriate here:

 

Much anger in him....

 

- Yoda to Obi-Wan

Edited February 24, 2014 by Master-Nala

[Master-Nala]

If you expect people to take your positions seriously, reasonableness and logic matter. The OP's dislike is not merely emotional, but appears to be based on solid reasons from lore, canon, the movies, whatever. They are logical. They make sense.

 

They still devolve into, "I don't like this."

 

 

All you have to offer is "I don't like it and I don't want anyone else to have it."

 

If you allow this, then you must allow it where ever there is distaste with an animation. I don't think that is good for the game. For example, I hate Rocket Punch. It looks like something out of Street Fighter and I don't ever recall Boba or Jango Fett doing anything like it. I don't think the devs should allow me to change, even for a fee, the animation for the attack. These powers define these classes, they provide instant information about an opponent. If we go down the rabbit hole of letting people change animations to something they like better, we could wind up in a situation where we lose any visual consistency to these classes.

 

When I see a Sage or Shadow in PvP, what powers they use tell me a lot about their strategy or spec. In PvE, I can react based on what I see teammates doing. Yes, I could learn the new animations, but again, once you allow this for Consulars you have no justification for not allowing it for everyone.

 

What if a Sorcerer wants the rock and junk throwing. As the OP states, that is more appropriate for Sith. Should he not have that choice? Based on your support for this idea I would think you would say yes. But then after awhile you lose the information that certain animations give you. Like being able to distinguish a Balance Sage from a TK Sage just by the visuals.

 

 

Personally, when I see junk tossed, I think Vader, and I don't like it. Sure, that is a dislike, but it is rooted in solid fact...baddies threw junk at people, not jedi so much...it isn't a jedi move.

 

Agreed. But then, as I said in the post over on the Consular forum, Sages shouldn't really be doing any force attacks other than a force push here and there. Weaken Mind and Mind Crush seem like very dark side powers from the LORE. If you use LORE to back up your argument, you must admit that LORE demand fundamental changes in this class and others.

 

Reasonable people who read this thread will discount your position as unreasonable and treat it as such.

 

That's OK, I really don't take this stuff personally.

[MirrimFaranth]

They still devolve into, "I don't like this."

...

 

Actually you are wrong, it is not "I don't like this"...it is BW messed up, made a mistake, and based a jedi class on abilities used by sith. It doesn't look right or feel right in relation to the IP. You have admitted as much and you know the truth of the matter. It doesn't bother you, but the fact that it bothers others is legitimate, and not just a matter of personal preference. Expecting jedi to look and play in consistency with what people know and expect is not an unreasonable or strange position. It is what BW should strive for and should deliver.

 

The fact that there are lore consistent options already in the game, available, is just icing on the cake.

 

Agreed. But then, as I said in the post over on the Consular forum, Sages shouldn't really be doing any force attacks other than a force push here and there.

 

Yep, and as the OP pointed out, there are two Force Bursts in the game already, which look like versions of force push. Icing on the cake. Already done. Already in the game. I didn't know about both of them, but the OP did the homework, provided the screenies, etc. Take my money please.

Edited February 24, 2014 by MirrimFaranth

[BlackSilverRoar]

Actually you are wrong, it is not "I don't like this"...it is BW messed up, made a mistake, and based a jedi class on abilities used by sith. It doesn't look right or feel right in relation to the IP. You have admitted as much and you know the truth of the matter. It doesn't bother you, but the fact that it bothers others is legitimate, and not just a matter of personal preference. Expecting jedi to look and play in consistency with what people know and expect is not an unreasonable or strange position. It is what BW should strive for and should deliver.

 

The fact that there are lore consistent options already in the game, available, is just icing on the cake.

 

^I suggest this be re-read, as it makes TOO much sense.

[Darth-Rion]

I'd pay for it. Whilst I will be rolling a sage for more variation (as opposed to the Inquisitors "Look at me! I have 15 attacks that all look the same! Here is some channeled lightning, eat some instant cast lightning, have some more... channeled lightning... And another instant cast, uh, lightning... Oh! Try the delayed cast... Lightn- oh come on!!), I would at least like to seem somewhat imposing, instead of channeling some dust at my enemies. Edited February 24, 2014 by Darth-Rion

[BlackSilverRoar]

I'd definitely pay to be able to use red force lightning, like Darth Nihilus' in KOTOR II.

[Master-Nala]

Actually you are wrong, it is not "I don't like this"...it is BW messed up, made a mistake, and based a jedi class on abilities used by sith. It doesn't look right or feel right in relation to the IP. You have admitted as much and you know the truth of the matter. It doesn't bother you, but the fact that it bothers others is legitimate, and not just a matter of personal preference. Expecting jedi to look and play in consistency with what people know and expect is not an unreasonable or strange position. It is what BW should strive for and should deliver.

 

First, you cannot be bothered by something and say that it's purely logical and reasonable.

 

both·er verb \ˈbä-thər\

: to cause (someone) to feel troubled, worried, or concerned

 

: to annoy (someone) : to cause (someone) to feel annoyed

 

: to take the time to do something : to make an effort to do something

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bother

 

Now to be clear, you're the one suggesting Spock like logic is necessary, I have little quarrel with you all being bothered by this. In 15 years of playing MMORPGs, I have argued this point with folks over and over again. There are some decisions which are primarily based on an emotional response. That's OK, but the OP tries to dress up his critique in a legal argument concerning LORE. There is one fundamental problem with that. LucasArts licensing approved this. No matter how many fights we have with references to the this or that part of the EU, if they say something is proper, it is.

 

Furthermore, this game is part of the same Expanded Universe that the OP is using to justify his argument. Once this game existed (again with LucasArts licensing approval), it became part of the LORE of Star Wars. Jedi of the Old Republic started throwing droid and rocks at people. So, if you only want to be logical, the OP's argument fails on a LORE standpoint as the people who decide what LORE is said OK.

 

Now all this gets back to my point. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE REASONABLE ABOUT THIS. You find a positive connotation in the word 'reasonable' that you probably shouldn't. There isn't anything wrong with saying, "I don't like Project and TK Throw and wish I could change them." This is a form of entertainment. Neither you nor the OP are under any obligation to justify what is essentially a personal preference. In fact, trying to do so undercuts your argument, because as I said, Bioware had to work with the licensing folks who weren't bothered by the attacks.

 

Yep, and as the OP pointed out, there are two Force Bursts in the game already, which look like versions of force push. Icing on the cake. Already done. Already in the game. I didn't know about both of them, but the OP did the homework, provided the screenies, etc. Take my money please.

 

Again, that is not the only consideration. You didn't bother to respond to the rest of my argument, so I'll just leave this here as it's another reiteration of the LORE based argument.

[YoshiRaphElan]

The Ashara and Raina "burst" animation is probably the best option I have heard. I am nearing 50 with my Warrior and my Consular's up next for leveling; I'd be more than happy to have this happen before I begin playing. I will use the normal Project and Throw animations without fuss, but this would be beyond awesome if they did it. So...

 

/SIGNED

[Dyvim]

The Ashara and Raina "burst" animation is probably the best option I have heard. I am nearing 50 with my Warrior and my Consular's up next for leveling; I'd be more than happy to have this happen before I begin playing. I will use the normal Project and Throw animations without fuss, but this would be beyond awesome if they did it. So...

 

/SIGNED

 

Thanks. I really hope EAWare takes this chance to improve the game experience for a lot of players, and make money while doing it.

 

The game was built on mirrored classes...slapping different animations on top of identical or very similar abilities. This seem like an obvious fit. Players get choice, EAWare gets money. Force push variants like the force bursts, are going to look more powerful, and they match up with what people expect from jedi, particularly light sided ones. In addition, they are environment neutral...they look good and work anywhere, whereas the junk, rocks, and pebbles simply do not...those animations are environmentally ignorant, and they have to cheat to randomly conjure the junk from the ground, magically, which is the worst of both worlds....it is conjured up magically, and it is often simply an impossible item to conjure in the first place (rocks out of starship decks).

 

The problem is so obvious, the fix is so obvious, and the money is there for the taking. There have been countless threads in the consular/sage/shadow forums expressing dissatisfaction with these animations over the years. There are TWO on the first page of the sage forums now...would be really nice if EAWare stepped up here.

[BobbyQuarrier]

I realize this could be a good bit of work to develop, and I'd not really be upset by it not being added to the game, I think it'd be pretty swell. It seems like it should be worth the amount of time it would probably take. I certainly would pay a lot to have this.

[Gwena]

I love the idea of alternate animations like Ashara's and Raina's, good find OP. Just looking at them makes me jealous for my Consulars! I'm not terribly bothered by the current ones (and prefer them to various flavors of purple lightning), though I am not at all fond of Project and TK Throw seems a bit random.

 

I also noticed a nice Force animation doing the Macrobinocular quests (the instanced puzzle-y parts), when your character sends bursts of Force energy at specific things to disable/destroy them. Probably not good enough for ability animations, but it struck me as odd that my character was doing something that looked better suited to a Jedi than most of my Consular's damage abilities. >.<

 

However, I do think that alternate animations should be handled carefully. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that the junk and pebbles were a poor choice, but I'm sure many players of all classes would say that about other animations. So while I think a few alternate-but-still-Consular-looking animations for the Consular is an awesome idea, I also think it would need to extend to all the classes. ^^

[MusicRider]

Although I do like project and tk throw I fully support this idea of cartel market abilities alternative animations.

 

EDIT: Problem is with pvp though as the visual of an ability is sometimes an indicator for whether to interrupt or not. Even worse would be with names, I think the name would have to remain the same... So you can have three animations of TkT, not the traditional TkT and an alternative animation called Force Burst... it would cause too much confusion as long as pvp is regarded.

Edited March 2, 2014 by MusicRider

[MusicRider]

And since on topic, my suggestion of alternative TkT animation would be to use a discblade, which requires a bit more workaround initially but portrays that consulars are masters of telekinesis. Of course you still keep the waving saber.

Discblade link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Discblade

Edited March 2, 2014 by MusicRider

[ottoisblotto]

excellent post OP

BW I want to give you my money. make this happen

[jaytdasme]

EXACTLY. Exactly what I tried to describe in my last paragraph. Hit the "p" key, bring up your abilities window, and it would be a slottable skill, identical in EVERY way, functionally, to the original project or throw, just with different icon and different animation...but with the SAME cooldown, etc. So theoretically you could slot both. It could be found on the consular tab, where project and throw are at now, or it could be on the Legacy tab, purchasable with cartel coins through legacy (along with a legacy level requirement if they wanted, whatever), or they could make a NEW "Cartel" tab....whatever. Point is, it would be a slottable skill, located where all the other skills are stored. And you could choose to slot it and use it, OR not.

 

As much as i agree that sounds like some tricky scripting....

A host of things could go wrong if they do it like this.

[Dyvim]

As much as i agree that sounds like some tricky scripting....

A host of things could go wrong if they do it like this.

 

I'm not sure I follow. Again, this game was designed by taking identical skills and slapping different animations on top of them in order to mirror classes. Then you have more current examples of the "kick the huttball" cartel market ability...which clearly puts a new animation on top of the basic throw skill...or the many many new out of combat rejuvenation abilities/animations they have released that ALL do the same thing with just a different animation....

 

Also, keep in mind how they have done all the legacy abilities....for use during heroic moment....force sweep, lightning storm, project....so there is OBVIOUSLY some built in flexibility with assigning animations and tinkering with different, situational version of abilities....so again, I don't follow ya.

 

Its ashame the game isn't open to client side modding, but I imagine that the animations are kept in separate files and called by the engine...so it shouldn't be that big a deal to copy the instance of project, then give it a new icon and have it call a new ani.... or who knows, maybe it would be the hardest damn thing ever, but given the nature of the game, I doubt it.

 

excellent post OP

BW I want to give you my money. make this happen

 

ty, ty very much

 

I love the idea of alternate animations like Ashara's and Raina's, good find OP. Just looking at them makes me jealous for my Consulars!....

 

ty ty. I know, right? how could the sith companions get better jedi animations than the actual jedi....its mind boggling.

 

I also noticed a nice Force animation doing the Macrobinocular quests (the instanced puzzle-y parts), when your character sends bursts of Force energy at specific things to disable/destroy them. Probably not good enough for ability animations, but it struck me as odd that my character was doing something that looked better suited to a Jedi than most of my Consular's damage abilities. >.<

 

We used to call that "force blow up an object" and it was kicked around before as a possible project replacement, except it just didn't seem substantial enough....then I found force burst....lol

 

However, I do think that alternate animations should be handled carefully. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that the junk and pebbles were a poor choice, but I'm sure many players of all classes would say that about other animations. So while I think a few alternate-but-still-Consular-looking animations for the Consular is an awesome idea, I also think it would need to extend to all the classes. ^^

 

I agree about the extension, but lets get the premier force using jedi class fixed, themewise, in a star wars MMO as a necessary first step. If you cant get jedi right in a star wars MMO where you have spent 100s of millions, its a somewhat more than an oversight...and jedi ARE NOT RIGHT. They are NOT rock, junk and pebble throwers. Its laughable. Going forward, though, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason EAWare couldn't go to town on this, and make a lot of money...look how people will spend millions of credits and alot of cartel coins on things like light saber colors, or a new weapon skin....how much more so for choice appearance of abilities that can really impact the look and feel of your class....the possibilities are there for EVERY class. They could take the two most hated animations from every class and offer cartel market alternates. Red lightning, Nihilus style for sorc's, etc. Most of the animations in this game are very good, but there are the ones that aren't popular, or some would say overused, like lightning...

Edited March 4, 2014 by Dyvim

[whitroc]

I am not letting this die. Im willing to pay money for the changed presented in this thread

[MirrimFaranth]

I am not letting this die. Im willing to pay money for the changed presented in this thread

 

You are not alone. I would pay real money for this on two accounts. I honestly don't understand why this has not already been done. There have been hundreds, maybe thousands of post asking for changes to these animations. I personally despise them. Loathe them. I understand people that are used to them and like them, but many want change and I, for one, am willing to pay for it...like now.

 

There has been a similar discussion going on in the consular and sage forums, in threads asking for changes to these animations....I am copying this here, which was posted by the OP of this thread, because I completely agree with it....and was yelling "YES, YES" at my monitor when I read it...lol.

 

...As far as Electric Judgment, it isn't my favorite option either, but I would buy it in A HEARTBEAT. I think if they did do it, simply recoloring the lightning would be the least impressive way to go...again I would prefer a large focused bolt, or ARC or green lightning that danced over the target as it hit...but again, I prefer the force push/force burst variants for the already stated reasons.

 

But, picture this (I know you should never rely on someone else's imagination, but here goes)...you are in a war zone and get zapped with lightning from a sorc for the 3,296,735,734 time. Your jedi extends his/her palm and Electric Judgment streaks from their hand straight to the sorcerer, crit'ing them and even maybe double arc'ing with an upheaval proc. Now, to that sith it would look like you took his lightning, absorbed it, Yoda Style, and reflected back a jedi version of it, zapping the crap out of him for a change...in that one instant, I would pay gazillions to hear the protestations and see the look on the face of that imp player after that very first bolt of Electric Judgment. Now that would be, perhaps the most epic moment of jedi game play this game ever delivered. EVER.

 

QFE

 

Oh, yeah, did I mention that I have green eyes on my Twi sage, and green arc'ing EJ lightning would match them perfectly....lol. It would be like the ultimate accessory...

Edited March 10, 2014 by MirrimFaranth

[RowanThursday]

The "wanting PVP abilities recognisable" thing really doesn't fly as an objection. That was touted by Devs in the early stages of the game when people complained about how identical the gear progression forced every class to look to anyone else in that class "Oh, but if you change it, I won't be able to instantly recognise that the person attacking me's a Sage in PvPpppppppppppwaaaah" It was overruled then- we got 'adaptive' armour, because people wanted it, and because Bioware realised they'd pay shiny cartel coins for the outfits. Here, we're seeing an identical case- we want flexibility of animations, we're willing to pay shiny cartel coins for it. So there's no reason for us not to get it based on a premise which has *already* been overturned.

[Altheran]

Not only I would buy the Burst-alternatives for my Shadow, but I would also buy alternatives for the sudden-uncalled-reverse-grip moves from my Marauder...

 

So that you know, BioWare... ...not only Consulars may be interested by alternate animations.

 

PS : While I'm not sure I'd buy it, I may also be "interested" by a more military-like or cop-like Unload for my Powertech instead of the gangsta-like one.

[RowanThursday]

Not only I would buy the Burst-alternatives for my Shadow, but I would also buy alternatives for the sudden-uncalled-reverse-grip moves from my Marauder...

 

So that you know, BioWare... ...not only Consulars may be interested by alternate animations..

 

Heck, for that matter, I'd buy optionals to change a few of the out-of-combat self-heals- again, as *optionals*. They're very much personality gimmicks for the class, and not all our characters as we see them *fit* those. My Knight would feel a lot more herself with a 'toss saber in the air and levitate-spin it for fun' smuggler-style animation, for instance. While I'm not suggesting that *every* individual thing everybody wants should be available, by no means, I do think the "alternative animations/identical replacement powers" Cartel unlock option has a great potential for allowing us to individualise our characters.

[Dyvim]

Heck, for that matter, I'd buy optionals to change a few of the out-of-combat self-heals- again, as *optionals*. They're very much personality gimmicks for the class, and not all our characters as we see them *fit* those. My Knight would feel a lot more herself with a 'toss saber in the air and levitate-spin it for fun' smuggler-style animation, for instance. While I'm not suggesting that *every* individual thing everybody wants should be available, by no means, I do think the "alternative animations/identical replacement powers" Cartel unlock option has a great potential for allowing us to individualise our characters.

 

Oh, I agree completely. EAWare could basically print their own money with this...and I'm not talking cartel coins...lol.

 

But yes, start with consulars...and start with the two most disliked or complained about animations in the game...with a TWO YEAR PLUS history, extensive history, of player complaints against them.

 

But they could basically roll out a couple of alternate animations for a different class each month...red lightning for inqs, etc. An alternate to lightning strike would also probably be pretty popular...Shock and lightning are great, but I understand people that say BW went back to the lightning theme one or two times too many....

 

Not only I would buy the Burst-alternatives for my Shadow, but I would also buy alternatives for the sudden-uncalled-reverse-grip moves from my Marauder...

 

So that you know, BioWare... ...not only Consulars may be interested by alternate animations.

 

PS : While I'm not sure I'd buy it, I may also be "interested" by a more military-like or cop-like Unload for my Powertech instead of the gangsta-like one.

 

Exactly, there are plenty of possibilities.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Dyvim

[Master-Nala]

Not only I would buy the Burst-alternatives for my Shadow, but I would also buy alternatives for the sudden-uncalled-reverse-grip moves from my Marauder...

 

So that you know, BioWare... ...not only Consulars may be interested by alternate animations.

 

PS : While I'm not sure I'd buy it, I may also be "interested" by a more military-like or cop-like Unload for my Powertech instead of the gangsta-like one.

 

And this is why they will probably not be willing to go down this road. Once you do this for Consulars, you have no justification for not offering this for any animation that annoys people. Like Altheran, I don't like Bounty Hunter's Unload.

 

This thread is about two powers, but how could they stop there? And what criteria should they use to determine which powers are granted this treatment?

Edited March 17, 2014 by Master-Nala

[Dyvim]

And this is why they will probably not be willing to go down this road. Once you do this for Consulars, you have no justification for not offering this for any animation that annoys people. Like Altheran, I don't like Bounty Hunter's Unload.

 

This thread is about two powers, but how could they stop there? And what criteria should they use to determine which powers are granted this treatment?

 

Ah, my favorite naysayer...lol. Why would EAWare stop....lol. They continue, they continue to make money. The criteria for consular is easy...they have made a jedi class based on sith powers. That is a no brainer. The rest, they can basically listen to customer feedback *gasp*... I know, shocking concept. They provide alternates for what will be the most popular and generate the most revenue based on feedback from the playerbase...kind of like any other business that stays in business by meeting the needs of its customers...lol.

[Altheran]

And what criteria should they use to determine which powers are granted this treatment?

 

They look at class forums, suggestions forums, get a glimpse of which one get the more "demand for a change", look at the alternative proposals, judge its feasability and thematic concordance with the class...

 

Just like they did for gear sets : they don't implement everything that is proposed here, but they clearly did implemented some (like character creation armors).

And just like they are probably doing (or did already) about this proposal.