How does madness play?

[Kogarvandalin]

I'm really on the fence about keeping my assassin or scrapping him.

 

He's 55 I've spent a ton of time playing him. And I love the way he looks.

 

I just hate tanking with him. Dark Ward just seems annoying and a pain in the butt for me to keep up. And I don't like watching for 3 stacks in order to use force lightening.

 

Deception I hate the facing requirement. I do really good burst damage and can complete my dailies with no issues but I just cannot stand that some abilities I have to worry about the way the mob is facing.

 

How is madness play? Is it all DoT spec? Does it take forever to kill normals or silvers?

[Iona_Var]

I play madness on my assassin and I like it. More ranged capabilities then deception but you must keep your dots up on your target. Some may think madness is boring but I like it.

[Dasem]

From what I've read, Madness focuses on getting some of your seconds-long casting abilities to become instant cast under the right circumstances.

[Griad]

a little like this

 

dot, dot thrash thrash, dot, thrash thrash, dot, dot, thrash dot...ZZzzzZzzzzz most boring spec EVER.

 

But that is just my opinion, i find deception to be more interesting, i would hower like deception to be a little more melee heavy

Edited January 31, 2014 by Griad

[Xinika]

Madness is a one dimensional spec. It used to have more flavor pre-xpac, but that has changed and very unlikely to ever return. It is a DoT, DoT - Thrash (multiple times) into another DoT. The rotation is easy and the pay off is subpar.

[Dasem]

Madness is a one dimensional spec. It used to have more flavor pre-xpac, but that has changed and very unlikely to ever return. It is a DoT, DoT - Thrash (multiple times) into another DoT. The rotation is easy and the pay off is subpar.

 

You seem to be the one to ask, so...

 

Would you recommend Madness to be a spec for one to get their bearing with when it comes to being a Sin? I hear Deception is one of the hardest specs in the game to completely master. That leaves the tanking spec (The proper name escapes me at the moment), but it seems odd to play that spec when I only have Khem so far, so...

[Aragost]

You seem to be the one to ask, so...

 

Would you recommend Madness to be a spec for one to get their bearing with when it comes to being a Sin? I hear Deception is one of the hardest specs in the game to completely master. That leaves the tanking spec (The proper name escapes me at the moment), but it seems odd to play that spec when I only have Khem so far, so...

 

Deception is a much easier spec to play in pvp. Its hard to master, easy to be average with. Madness you will be bad, until you're very good at it, at which point you can play madness to a level of competitiveness equal to the average deception sin.

[cycao]

Deception is a much easier spec to play in pvp. Its hard to master, easy to be average with. Madness you will be bad, until you're very good at it, at which point you can play madness to a level of competitiveness equal to the average deception sin.

 

Madness is just a terrible spec right now for assassins. As xin knows it was completely gutted and made into an overly simplistic, boring play style. Liability if you have one on your team a free kill if the other team has one.

[thejollygreenone]

in end game pve, madness is still a bit better. in end game pvp, deception is the clear winner between the two dps trees, madness pretty much sucks donkeys in pvp.

 

just had to clarify, many responses in this thread seem to be about one or the other and it can get a bit confusing i imagine

[Xinika]

You seem to be the one to ask, so...

 

Would you recommend Madness to be a spec for one to get their bearing with when it comes to being a Sin? I hear Deception is one of the hardest specs in the game to completely master. That leaves the tanking spec (The proper name escapes me at the moment), but it seems odd to play that spec when I only have Khem so far, so...

The best spec for leveling used to be Darkness. When ROTHC came out, it switched to Deception. I'd recommend using Deception to level as of this current patch (2.5) Now, as far as getting your bearings you should try all specs. You learn something new every time.

 

Madness is an overall better spec for PvE DPS and the one I'd use in raid encounters all the time. Deception remains too inconsistent to top it.

 

Madness is quite possibly the worst spec for PvP. The damage 'tickles' and there's no true form of burst to unload its pressure on targets. Not to mention, the piss poor survivability. Lethality Operatives are a superior Stealth and DoT choice for PvP. Avoid using Madness in PvP at all costs.

 

PvE DPS - Madness

PvP DPS - Deception

PvE Tank - Darkness

PvP Half-Tank - Darkness

Edited January 31, 2014 by Xinika

[cycao]

The best spec for leveling used to be Darkness. When ROTHC came out, it switched to Deception. I'd recommend using Deception to level as of this current patch (2.5) Now, as far as getting your bearings you should try all specs. You learn something new every time.

 

Madness is an overall better spec for PvE DPS and the one I'd use in raid encounters all the time. Deception remains too inconsistent to top it.

 

Madness is quite possibly the worst spec for PvP. The damage 'tickles' and there's no true form of burst to unload its pressure on targets. Not to mention, the piss poor survivability. Lethality Operatives are a superior Stealth and DoT choice for PvP. Avoid using Madness in PvP at all costs.

 

PvE DPS - Madness

PvP DPS - Deception

PvE Tank - Darkness

PvP Half-Tank - Darkness

 

Yeah this sums up my thoughts and madness and makes me miss it even more....*heavy sigh*

[IInox]

deception pve too.

 

for levelling imho, infiltration is better. You don't need to be a tank to kill some mobs

[Xinika]

deception pve too.

 

for levelling imho, infiltration is better. You don't need to be a tank to kill some mobs

Deception can absolutely do PvE as well, of course. I was simply putting preferred or BiS for PvP / PvE

[thejollygreenone]

i'd say madness is better than deception for leveling up until at least the 30s. deception is just really deprived of necessary utilities that makes up its rotation early on, so if we're going by a factor of what's easiest to level with i'd put my vote in for madness, it get's enough of its key abilities early enough so that it's smooth leveling basically all the way up. if you're going that route, play madness till 45 then make a decision if you want to play deception or madness cause either will work pretty equally to get you to 55 from there.

 

that's my two cents about leveling.

[Evolixe]

Deception can absolutely do PvE as well, of course. I was simply putting preferred or BiS for PvP / PvE

 

Well, to be fair, I think with Perfect execution.. Deception is probably ahead of Madness for PvE everywhere except when there are multiple targets that need dpsing from you.

[thejollygreenone]

Well, to be fair, I think with Perfect execution.. Deception is probably ahead of Madness for PvE everywhere except when there are multiple targets that need dpsing from you.

 

i would tend to agree, deception certainly has higher burst potential that could influence the whole fight in such a way with enough luck. however the pessimist in me says that such perfect luck is a pipe dream due to the way deceptions procs and variables infinitely (exaggeration) affect each other. unless deception is fixed (this is an unfortunately broad term), then madness will be better in practice, imo.

Edited January 31, 2014 by thejollygreenone

[Aragost]

PvE DPS - Madness

PvP DPS - Deception

PvE Tank - Darkness

PvP Half-Tank - Darkness

 

Lets not pretend assasins are incapable of tanking in pvp. If you honestly think that, you're simply wrong.

[Maudril]

Question: Would Madness having selfhealing of the same caliber that the Tank had at launch be overpowering? Also, what do you all think of adding force regen to parasitism and similar talents?

 

One more thing, what about a conspirator's-cloak-like proc for Assassinate instead of Maul, and adding a duplicity-like talent to make Maul cheaper for Madness sins?

 

 

I would like deception, if it wasnt so darn inconsistent. The only spec I like right now is tank, so for Dailies and such I just grab Ashara and trade out my 180/168 Tank Gear for my 162 DPS gear.

[twsx]

This is all very subjective of course, but I can't imagine for the life of me how you could say Madness is "boring" or the rotation is "easy" when the only other tree that fulfills the same role is Deception.

 

With Deception, you stand behind the boss and hit 3 buttons in a FCFS (first come, first serve) capacity.

Now, in my eyes, THAT is boring.

 

I played as Deception, and leveling with it was absolutely lovely I must say, but once I hit 55 and started going in Ops, it took a mere two weeks until I was absolutely sick of it.

I then got myself full 72 tank gear and switched to Darkness, only to find out that, though I was doing okay as a tank, I don't like tanking.

I switched back to Deception for another week, at which point I was even more sick of it, to the point where I was considering leaving the Character be and playing others.

 

Luckily however, I decided to give Madness a shot before quitting the character, and boy let me tell you, am I happy I did.

 

• The rotation may not be "difficult", but it sure as hell takes more initiative than playing Deception. You have to watch our debuffs on the target as well as the buffs on yourself, and act accordingly. Also, there's a noticeable skill curve, as you start to develop a "feeling" when you have to re-cast your Discharge and Creeping Terror, something which is completely lacking when playing Deception.
  
• Usable AoE capabilities. Sure, we don't have AoE abilities comparable to, say, a Merc. But you can do good AoE damage to high amounts as mobs with Death Field and also Lacerate (which, as opposed to Deception, actually does something when you're Madness). Also, when it comes to fighting 2-4 high-HP mobs (as opposed to 10+ low-HP mobs) your sustainable DPS is actually pretty brilliant.
  
• Sustained Damage. Deception sure has kick *** Burst damage. Madness doesn't have a lot of burst, but it has excellent overall sustained damage.
  
• Flying numbers. Let's be honest. Seeing a dozen flying numbers coming out of your target per second is just a metric **** ton of fun.

 

Switching from Deception to Madness did, for me, change my Assassin from a Char I regretted leveling up and that I'd rather forget into one of my favourite Toons.

I can seriously recommend it.

Obviously, this is all subjective, but who knows, maybe it works out for the OP too!

Edited February 3, 2014 by twsx

[Evolixe]

Just like.. I don't even know where to start man. It's like you're seeing the world upside down.

[DisturbedMalak]

Just like.. I don't even know where to start man. It's like you're seeing the world upside down.

 

Agreed.

[twsx]

Maybe you could elaborate?

[Dasem]

Maybe you could elaborate?

 

I switched from Madness to Deception. Granted, I'm only lv25, but it was certainly enough to notice a difference in playing style.

 

And pretty much everything you said... Is how I'd describe Deception, not Madness. Except the part about burst damage, of course.

 

Talking about those numbers steadily showing at you tick away an enemies health... Seeing those gigantic crit numbers? Amazing. I often surprise myself how much I can crit for. And the line about buffs/debuffs/stacks? Yeah, that's how I'd describe Deception, not Madness.

 

I'm not going to speak for anything else, but when Eviolixe (I'm hoping I spelled your name correctly) says you're looking at the world upside down, I personally agree. Because the way you describe going from Deception to Madness is nearly exactly how I'd describe going from Madness to Deception.

[WooduckAUS]

I'm not going to speak for anything else, but when Eviolixe (I'm hoping I spelled your name correctly) says you're looking at the world upside down, I personally agree. Because the way you describe going from Deception to Madness is nearly exactly how I'd describe going from Madness to Deception.

 

I believe that's why he threw the "subjective" disclaimer at the end.

 

I've played both and i'm happy to admit i'm a balance/madness man. We can still stand tall and proud. I don't have many balance/madness friends on my server, definitely of the minority. Everybody's different, i enjoy watching the numbers go flying when i have all 3 dots running and you start spamming double strike. Compared to pre 2.0 balance/madness, it has nothing..... but thats another story. Mind you 10k crits on shadow strike/maul are pretty cool too, in infiltration/deception spec.

 

To each their own.

[Dasem]

I believe that's why he threw the "subjective" disclaimer at the end.

 

I've played both and i'm happy to admit i'm a balance/madness man. We can still stand tall and proud. I don't have many balance/madness friends on my server, definitely of the minority. Everybody's different, i enjoy watching the numbers go flying when i have all 3 dots running and you start spamming double strike. Compared to pre 2.0 balance/madness, it has nothing..... but thats another story. Mind you 10k crits on shadow strike/maul are pretty cool too, in infiltration/deception spec.

 

To each their own.

 

Oh, absolutely. Play whatever works for you, play what you're happy with.

 

Part of me doesn't like Madness simply because of my Balance Sage, I feel bored using a lot of the same abilities as another character I have. So I admit part of the reason I'm enjoying Deception is because of his different it is from any of my other characters.