EzioMessi Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I ask this because Kuat Drive Yards has recently been announced as a role-neutral, level-neutral flashpoint. Not long after, The Eyeless boss is released, where every lowbie gets bolstered to level 55 stats. Is this a test for possible level-neutral Operations, or is this just a one-time thing so that lowbies get to have some fun with the event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingonaut Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well, obviously this is a system we've not seen before, in this form. If it goes well we can probably expect more in one form or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I wouldn't be surprised to see it for Story Mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I can see it used for events, but I think that operations should remain as top level thing, because they do continue the story of the hero you become at the high level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingonaut Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I can see it used for events, but I think that operations should remain as top level thing, because they do continue the story of the hero you become at the high level... We need something similar to operations at lower levels, because currently the gap of switching from flashpoints to operations is far to large. Some players (myself included for a while) see it and worry that they're not ready for a long time, even if they really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Well, obviously this is a system we've not seen before, in this form. If it goes well we can probably expect more in one form or another. Not entirely correct. They've done it before with the Gree event the first time it came around. But they removed it after it was exploitable and everyone with a lowbie character rushed to Ilum to farm the H4 quest over and over for easy powerleveling. (not sure how exactly it worked, but I think the lower level characters also got the xp numbers a 55 would get for killing the mobs, which would be insane amounts of xp for their level) I think they got it working now though, and yes, the new Tactical Operations are using the same system (I imagine the new FP was designed alongside the Rakghoul event). Edited January 24, 2014 by Callaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) I can see it used for events, but I think that operations should remain as top level thing, because they do continue the story of the hero you become at the high level... Yeah, most of them take place after you've already made a name for yourself in the galaxy. It would make zero sense to call "Joe, the level 10 nobody" to come fight the Dread Masters - not to mention they'd have to edit all the conversation scenes where they talk about you releasing the Dread Masters on Belsavis in the first place. A new operation however would work. One that's designed to be an introduction to Ops, and that takes into account that the characters aren't epic heroes yet. Like a massive raid on an Exchange base or something. (a more mundane threat rather than the epic enemies the current Ops all have you face) Edited January 24, 2014 by Callaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 We need something similar to operations at lower levels, because currently the gap of switching from flashpoints to operations is far to large. Some players (myself included for a while) see it and worry that they're not ready for a long time, even if they really are. Hmm, I really do not see the gap. You just have more people and there are some gear requirements, which are easily fulfilled by running Oricon once and getting the Artifact armor, which should be sufficient for Story Modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I ask this because Kuat Drive Yards has recently been announced as a role-neutral, level-neutral flashpoint. Not long after, The Eyeless boss is released, where every lowbie gets bolstered to level 55 stats. Is this a test for possible level-neutral Operations, or is this just a one-time thing so that lowbies get to have some fun with the event? It's just another way to avoid spending money on cross servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) It's just another way to avoid spending money on cross servers. Cross servers wouldn't solve the queue problem anyway, and it takes a lot of time and resources to implement. Unless there is a server out there, full of Tanks - all crying in desperation because those rare few DPS never queue for the groupfinder. Edited January 24, 2014 by Callaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 It's just another way to avoid spending money on cross servers. Unless there is a server full of tanks and healers not minding to group up with random, often terrible DPS, cross-server will not fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 lawl. So you all are telling me pulling from a pool of players from 8 servers instead of one wouldn't help at all? ****. My average wait time in both WoW and FF14 as dps was around 10 minutes at best. Granted they have more servers, but they still both have cross server queuing. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would sure as hell alleviate a lot of issues. This "neutral" role crap is just them avoiding implementing a feature that is becoming a standard for every other mmo out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hmm, I really do not see the gap. You just have more people and there are some gear requirements, which are easily fulfilled by running Oricon once and getting the Artifact armor, which should be sufficient for Story Modes. You miss the main problem: "Need to know tactics." It is very hard to find an OP group which takes in starters. My main is in a raiding guild. However, when I joined them, they were already doing TfB. That means I am kinda like a pro for this OP, however, I haven't done any of the others yet and anytime a pug calls out on the fleet, it says "needs to know tactics". So, for me (being a Swtor-veteran), having to read up tactics upfront or watch fight mechanism videos is a huge gap compared to all other content which I can learn by playing (my prefered play-style). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) I ask this because Kuat Drive Yards has recently been announced as a role-neutral, level-neutral flashpoint. Not long after, The Eyeless boss is released, where every lowbie gets bolstered to level 55 stats. Is this a test for possible level-neutral Operations, or is this just a one-time thing so that lowbies get to have some fun with the event? You never noticed that the Czerka-FPs are also meant to be "role-neutral" ? It doesn't have any Bolster, though. A new operation however would work. One that's designed to be an introduction to Ops, and that takes into account that the characters aren't epic heroes yet. It will far too soon be taken over by guilds which INSIST on everyone participating having a cartain amount of skill points, skills themselves, and al least 61 gear. There even have been tales of people putting others on their ignore lists because they (the other ones) didn't perform tank, DD, healer roles well in the Esseles Flashpoint ... History repeats itself. Edited January 24, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancaglon Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Yeah, most of them take place after you've already made a name for yourself in the galaxy. It would make zero sense to call "Joe, the level 10 nobody" to come fight the Dread Masters - not to mention they'd have to edit all the conversation scenes where they talk about you releasing the Dread Masters on Belsavis in the first place. Actually. The whole Dread Master mess is your fault if you did the Belsavis Imperial World Storyline. The Republic discussions have no mention of that, nor do the Imperial ones if you didn't do the Belsavis storyline, as with my fresh 55 Powertech. Edited January 24, 2014 by Ancaglon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufussay Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 A question on the bolster - what is actually bolstered? Is it just HP, or is damage bolstered as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 lawl. So you all are telling me pulling from a pool of players from 8 servers instead of one wouldn't help at all? ****. My average wait time in both WoW and FF14 as dps was around 10 minutes at best. Granted they have more servers, but they still both have cross server queuing. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would sure as hell alleviate a lot of issues. This "neutral" role crap is just them avoiding implementing a feature that is becoming a standard for every other mmo out there. The role composition is more or less same on all servers. Therefore, when you interconnect the servers, you get the composition times number of server connected. It might alleviate some issues, but it still does not change the fact that tanks and heals often hate to use GF because most of the DPS in queue are unable to follow some simple rules (except the awesome Rules of Marauders) I do not campaign against cross server system, but I feel it is not the "cure for all ailments" that some people think it is, and I realize it is pretty hard to implement. You miss the main problem: "Need to know tactics." It is very hard to find an OP group which takes in starters. My main is in a raiding guild. However, when I joined them, they were already doing TfB. That means I am kinda like a pro for this OP, however, I haven't done any of the others yet and anytime a pug calls out on the fleet, it says "needs to know tactics". So, for me (being a Swtor-veteran), having to read up tactics upfront or watch fight mechanism videos is a huge gap compared to all other content which I can learn by playing (my prefered play-style). I do not know, most Story Modes require no more tactics than some flashpoints... Of course, Hard Modes are a different thing, but that is something that is usually not PUGed. However, even on The Eyeless, many people have some serious problems with the nearly non-existent tactics there (stay out of circles), so that probably shows that even a simple tank and spank fight is hard for some. And I would hate to see all operations turned to tank-and spank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Actually. The whole Dread Master mess is your fault if you did the Belsavis Imperial World Storyline. The Republic discussions have no mention of that, nor do the Imperial ones if you didn't do the Belsavis storyline, as with my fresh 55 Powertech. Ah cool, I didn't know that. The characters I do my Ops on are also ones that completed most planetary arcs - the rest that skipped them is generally under 55 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I do not campaign against cross server system, but I feel it is not the "cure for all ailments" that some people think it is, and I realize it is pretty hard to implement. As someone who works on server code. It's actually not that hard. Also, data mining shows the code exists within the game. So the reality comes down to the fact that either EA will not give them the funding to buy the physical servers or BW just simply doesn't want to do it. Either way, if the code exists, the only thing that has to be done is putting in place the physical servers which in and of itself takes time, but not exactly difficult. Only thing is the live servers would probably be down for an entire day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzioMessi Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 It's just another way to avoid spending money on cross servers. Not really. In Pvp, cross-server is needed to make sure there's a big pool of players for ELO MM. In FPs and Ops, cross server won't help as much. If Pu g tanks are outnumbered 90 to 1 (pulled a number out of my ***, don't question it) on one server, chances are they are outnumbered by the same margin on the others too. All it will do is have more simultaneous raids, but DPS wills still, have the same 1-2 hour queue times and tanks will still get insta-pops. You never noticed that the Czerka-FPs are also meant to be "role-neutral" ? It doesn't have any Bolster, though. It will far too soon be taken over by guilds which INSIST on everyone participating having a cartain amount of skill points, skills themselves, and al least 61 gear. There even have been tales of people putting others on their ignore lists because they (the other ones) didn't perform tank, DD, healer roles well in the Esseles Flashpoint ... History repeats itself. I know it is role neutral (as is Esseles/Black Talon now), but still, bot level neutral. The main reason I like the idea of level neutral stuff is queue times. Right now, you have to wait a long time in lowbie FP queues on some days. On others you get an insta-pop. That's because it relies on at least 3 others in the same level range queueing up for the same FP. Level neutral FPs will alleviate that. Also, I like the idea of new Tactical Ops for that reason too. Training grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 A question on the bolster - what is actually bolstered? Is it just HP, or is damage bolstered as well? From what I've seen both. But the problem with it is that lowbies typically don't have their most effective and damaging attacks, mitigation, or heals at 20 or even 30. So... there is alot of spamming of attacks that ultimately contribute but aren't the difference makers in a tough fight like an Ops boss. It would be interesting if an entire group of lowbies went in and tried the Ops boss. My guess is that they wouldn't beat the enrage timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damask_Rose Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) After reading this I just might get up the courage to join an Eyeless pug. I've been too terrified to try HM flashpoints and SM ops because of all of the insistence about memorizing routes and encounters. I do know to stay out of circles though! Edited January 24, 2014 by Damask_Rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 After reading this I just might get up the courage to join an Eyeless pug. I've been too terrified to try HM flashpoints and SM ops because of all of the insistence about memorizing routes and encounters. I do know to stay out of circles though! Definitely give it a try. If you are on Harbinger let me know and we will be happy to make room for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 lawl. So you all are telling me pulling from a pool of players from 8 servers instead of one wouldn't help at all? ****. My average wait time in both WoW and FF14 as dps was around 10 minutes at best. Granted they have more servers, but they still both have cross server queuing. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would sure as hell alleviate a lot of issues. This "neutral" role crap is just them avoiding implementing a feature that is becoming a standard for every other mmo out there. And in WoW even with cross server there were constantly DPS crying about their long wait times. 1 server with no tanks or 20 servers with no tanks is still no tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 After reading this I just might get up the courage to join an Eyeless pug. I've been too terrified to try HM flashpoints and SM ops because of all of the insistence about memorizing routes and encounters. I do know to stay out of circles though! Eyeless Story Mode isn't too bad. I bit the bullet and pugged it as a tank. Just don't stand in the big colored circles and you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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