Light & Dark choices are not always simple choices

[Giondi]

My favorite one is on Taris. A group of people agree to pay you to go out and risk your life for a few quality of life items (not really anything that is necessary for survival since they're being housed and fed by the military at the base). When you do it, they try and play up the "Poor us, we're on this hellhole planet" schtick (even though, you know... THEN LEAVE!) and it gives you DS points when you have the audacity on a Smuggler to point out that you're a businessman and ask them to give you what they already agreed to.

 

Well, since they have a "no more than four lines" rule it does imply that they don't want signatures that are too large.

You found a way around that, great.

But don't expect to get away with it too long.

And don't come whining when they punish you for circumventing the rules.

Do not interact with him. Stop feeding the troll. Just report him and laugh in a couple days when he posts some whiny thread about how the "fascists" at Bioware took away his stupid sig.

[dorpen]

 

Do not interact with him. Stop feeding the troll. Just report him and laugh in a couple days when he posts some whiny thread about how the "fascists" at Bioware took away his stupid sig.

 

Easiest thing is to just click on his name and ignore him, I never ignore people but he never posts anything worthwhile in a topic he only does it to spam his signature. He'll get bored and go take a nap or play with his legos instead.

[-Foxtech-]

I have an issue with the morality choices on pub side Kaon.

When you get to Major Byzal and he gets infected, you have the choice of letting him live (light side) or end his life (dark). I'm kinda confused... Why would letting him suffer through the transformation into a rakghoul be a good thing compared to ending his suffering? Couldn't ending his life to relieve his suffering be considered euthanasia?

[SgtJeremy]

The LS/DS are based on your character not a generic moral line. If you are a jedi doing anything against the Jedi code is DS even if to most "normal" people it would seem LS. Like reporting on the relationship on Tython, its DS because it violates your code as a Jedi even though as a trooper or smug that would be a LS decision. It's nice to see that there is some flexibility in choices based on who you are playing at the time

Isn't that quest dark side because you took a bride to keep quiet, and something about the ball busting code against one of the more basic human urges.

[Rhalius]

I gues this is the problem when you have a very black and white morality system.

The game could use the lawful/chaotic axis to go with the light and dark side.

 

I mean.. this morality system is terrible for my trooper. He kills imperials unless they are civilians and doesnt take crap from anyone. But he is not corrupt and helps civilians. He's there to help the little guy unless its for a useless errand such as fetching that stuff on Taris.

You could say he's kind of a clint eastwood in space.

 

There usually arent enough dialogue options anyways.. the game forces you usually to do a light or dark side thing, offering very rarely a neutral alternative. The alternative usually is a second dark or lightside option.

 

They really need to introduce the lawfull/chaotic axis they also used in Neverwinter Nights. It made for a much better morality system. That game also allowed for lawfull good characters to still be interesting in dialogue instead of the bland hero.

 

It's worst for jedi knights due to the poor voice acting.. consular female voice seems much richer for example, more sensible and less naive.

[AlexDougherty]

you have to scroll down to see other posts anyway, and ive yet too see bioware comment on what is an appropriate size for a signature, just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean its spam.

 

It's a form of harrassment, and I have reported you for it.

You clearly know exactly why it's harrassment, since you've said there is nothing specifically banning it.

[jgelling]

That's why I despise playing Republic.

 

The "Light" side choices on the Republic are too often good... at the expense of being short-sighted and naive. The real-world is harsh and sometimes tough choices have to be made for the greater good, and the Republic Light side choices rarely respect that.

 

The Empire choices are easier - Dark almost always being really selfish and bad and Light being realistically balanced without the naivete of the Republic Light side choices.

Edited January 19, 2014 by jgelling

[bibobpipop]

Yeah spot on. If i recall correctly from playing my trooper the LS choice is telling his parents that their son is dead...

WTH?! "Your kid is dead", is the nice thing to do! What about family reunion and rehab?!

 

IIRC they boys parents treated him really really bad, so telling him to go back home means he'll suffer even more, while telling the parents that he's dead gives him a chance to start a new life somewhere else

 

Easiest thing is to just click on his name and ignore him,

 

Great tip, thanks

[horrorfaneightys]

There are definitely some strange choices.

 

 

My trooper is about duty and honour, and on the Taris mission where you gave to find the missing convoy, she forced them to go back. That was seen as the dark side choice, while letting them go AWOL was seen as light side. Except the AWOL soldier you talk to admits that their desertion would have meant the deaths of all the others at their outpost. To me that's more dark side, than making someone face their duty and not let their friends get massacred.

 

[RocketeerRaccoon]

That's why I despise playing Republic.

 

The "Light" side choices on the Republic are too often good... at the expense of being short-sighted and naive. The real-world is harsh and sometimes tough choices have to be made for the greater good, and the Republic Light side choices rarely respect that.

 

The Empire choices are easier - Dark almost always being really selfish and bad and Light being realistically balanced without the naivete of the Republic Light side choices.

 

Your probably right, the Imperials do get more realistic choices. I really hate the ones in Coruscant.

1. Get sewage system working again to then be met by annoying homeless kids saying they need it left broken to survive. Seriously, why would just giving them credits help them? They're still frigging homeless...

2. Told by women who believes in the "true Republic" to tell you to steal parcel from droid to stop corrupt senator from making his plan to then holtted by his lackey.

3. Find a computer with recordings of a Justicar guy with a government guy who's with the Black Sun. You either take the disk as it is to make Justicars look innocent which is Light or Remove recording two to make it look like the Justicars are guilty which is Dark choice. Wait? I thought the Black Sun and Justicars gangs were both bad??? This makes no sense.

 

As for mister dummy too-shoes eavn, why make your signature so large? You don't need fonts that big with massive spaces that fill up the whole page, your just asking for trouble.

[agamemnon-]

Your probably right, the Imperials do get more realistic choices. I really hate the ones in Coruscant.

1. Get sewage system working again to then be met by annoying homeless kids saying they need it left broken to survive. Seriously, why would just giving them credits help them? They're still frigging homeless...

2. Told by women who believes in the "true Republic" to tell you to steal parcel from droid to stop corrupt senator from making his plan to then holtted by his lackey.

3. Find a computer with recordings of a Justicar guy with a government guy who's with the Black Sun. You either take the disk as it is to make Justicars look innocent which is Light or Remove recording two to make it look like the Justicars are guilty which is Dark choice. Wait? I thought the Black Sun and Justicars gangs were both bad??? This makes no sense.

.

 

It's like the writers burnt themselves out with the Empire and just phoned it in at half-assed it when it came time to do the Republic story.

[Solzean]

I think a big part of the problem is that people are trying to apply their own moral codes to the games moral code. This is actually the whole point of a system like this. People that complain about it are essentially wanting to get rid of the system and make their own system of morals what the game will follow. Problem is that everyone will have one based on their own moral judgements. If you are a Jedi, then you are going to largely follow the Jedi code. If you go against it (just like any religion or belief system) you know that you could possibly face reprimand. If you are a Smuggler or Trooper then light side dark side can very well mean absolutely nothing to you. Who cares if the jedi say what you are doing is wrong? We are following our own code. That being said, having LS DS choices for those classes matters a lot less for me RPing wise. I suppose others could be different.

 

The idea is that light side choices are based on a Jedi code. Choosing to make someone do something is generally not going to be a light side option because that usually involves force where none was being pointed at you. I have seen a couple that are a bit odd choices, but the vast majority make sense in the context of the game.

[Solzean]

Your probably right, the Imperials do get more realistic choices. I really hate the ones in Coruscant.

1. Get sewage system working again to then be met by annoying homeless kids saying they need it left broken to survive. Seriously, why would just giving them credits help them? They're still frigging homeless...

2. Told by women who believes in the "true Republic" to tell you to steal parcel from droid to stop corrupt senator from making his plan to then holtted by his lackey.

3. Find a computer with recordings of a Justicar guy with a government guy who's with the Black Sun. You either take the disk as it is to make Justicars look innocent which is Light or Remove recording two to make it look like the Justicars are guilty which is Dark choice. Wait? I thought the Black Sun and Justicars gangs were both bad??? This makes no sense.

 

As for mister dummy too-shoes eavn, why make your signature so large? You don't need fonts that big with massive spaces that fill up the whole page, your just asking for trouble.

 

2 and 3 you are subverting justice and the way the republic works. Those are dark side choices. The senator was not corrupt, he simply held a different view point.

 

As for giving the kids credits? Yea, that is a tough one. The other option is we get another quest line where we take them to an orphanage. Even then, this is a giant debate that is FAR bigger than this random quest in a game as to how you handle this kind of situation.

[Rhalius]

All kids in this game looking very creepy doesnt really stimulate me to help them.

 

Aside from that, many choices just arent well written. They make it too black and white.

[drglory]

I reported it too, but let's not let the thread get hijacked.

 

ON TOPIC:

My personal favorite is an Ord Mantell side quest called "Mercy".

A soldier tells you that some medicine has been stolen and that some of his men are likely to die without it. You track down the thief, a Cathar refugee who has been pilfering supplies to help other refugees. She tells you that she meant to tend to sick refugees, but Separatist-aligned scavengers stole the medicine from her and offers to tell you where they took it if you agree to bring it back to her.

 

Alignment choice 1: either agree to this deal (light) or threaten a nearby child to make her tell you anyway (dark)

 

If you agree to the deal, you stomp a bunch of scavengers and come up with two packs of medicine. You are then faced with a decision.

 

Alignment choice 2: either bring the medicine to the refugees as promised (light) or return it to the military (dark)

 

It's that second one that makes no sense! How is it dark-side to save the lives of soldiers rather than treat non-life-threatening injuries of civilians? More to the point, why not have an option to give one pack to the refugees and return the rest to the soldiers? THAT would be the wiser decision in my book.

 

I always saw this quest as the guard who gave the quest was trying to cover up his sleeping on the job. Giving the meds back is dark side because it empowers him to cover up his failure. Like Kria tought us, helping another will only weaken them by taking that opportunity away from them and giving it to yourself.

 

Giving the meds to the needy forced the sleeping guard to face the consequences of his actions.

[YoshiRaphElan]

I always saw this quest as the guard who gave the quest was trying to cover up his sleeping on the job. Giving the meds back is dark side because it empowers him to cover up his failure. Like Kria tought us, helping another will only weaken them by taking that opportunity away from them and giving it to yourself.

 

Giving the meds to the needy forced the sleeping guard to face the consequences of his actions.

 

While that may be, it doesn't matter–you're still letting a soldier, a good soldier and one of your comrades, die of his injuries. When you return to the Sgt. he specifically says that one of them just went into shock and would die without medicine. I think it's worth it to help a dying man, whether or not it covers up a stupid mistake.

[GirlsAlwaysWin]

report for what? there is nothing offensive in it at all.

 

This has nothing to do with your signature size (because I really don't care)... But I just want you to know, That N with the little squiggly over it in Nobody, well it makes a weird sound to anyone with rudimentary Spanish skills, therefore your nobody character sounds like "Nyobody":D

[FeniceNera]

I have an issue with the morality choices on pub side Kaon.

When you get to Major Byzal and he gets infected, you have the choice of letting him live (light side) or end his life (dark). I'm kinda confused... Why would letting him suffer through the transformation into a rakghoul be a good thing compared to ending his suffering? Couldn't ending his life to relieve his suffering be considered euthanasia?

 

That is in interesting choice, because the morality alignment is inverted in the empire side (if I remind correctly): on the imp side, the "let live" option is the dark side choice

[Cbaoth]

On the contrary, I find following the DS harder because SO many of the DS choices are just STUPID choices...

 

I completly agreee! It seems that alot of the time, the dark side choice is just a matter of being evil for the sake of being evil. It is often a choice that hold no logic at all. Where as the light side choices seems makes the the player look alot more thoughtfull about what he is doing.

 

The point is that is seems those wrote the choices for the story are a bit biased towards light side, since they seemingly are going out of the way of showing that dark side choices are just plain stupid.

 

Its just kill him for no reason at all other than because you want to see him die. While some sith or imps might enjoy this, I would like to think that the char im playing does a bit more thinking than a damn street thug.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Cbaoth

[Sorei]

IIRC they boys parents treated him really really bad, so telling him to go back home means he'll suffer even more, while telling the parents that he's dead gives him a chance to start a new life somewhere else

 

If I'm not mistaken (i.e. confusing the quests) they treated him well and are worried sick about him, but he can't look them in the eyes anymore after all he's done

 

 

A DS/LS choice that has never made sense to me is the one on Korriban where you help Lord Renning with getting back his Tukata. His apprentice claims his research is pointless and wants to sabotage his experiments. Letting her sabotage the experiment is LS, giving the brain to him on the other hand is DS.

I can't possibly know whether Malora is wrong or right, so from a LS perspective, sabotaging him and ruining his reputation can't be right.

 

There are other times you apparently have to be naive and believe everything you're told unless you want to go darkside. On Ord Mantell, for example, there is someone looking for something. While looking for it, you're told she's an Imperial spy and the thing is her communication device.

Giving it to him is the LS option, giving it to her the DS option. While in this case I do believe that he really is a Republic agent, he could be lying for all I know. He could be trying to deceive me.

[ItachiZaku]

I feel a lot of the choices are very borderline moral decisions. "Kill the engineers so everyone else can survive, or try a risky move that could save everyone (or kill everyone).

[Beslley]

I'm starting to learn that the choices you make in this game are not always Light = good, Dark = bad. Sometimes the right thing is not always as easy as it seems. It just seems as if those who follow the Dark side have it easier because they don't have to worry about doing the right thing because they are always doing the wrong thing if you know what I mean.

 

IDK, with the characters I've played through, there are way more "SAVE EVERYTHING ^_^" choices and "I AM THE WORST PERSON ALIVE" choices than actual subtle light/dark ones.

 

Also a lot of the dark side choices have the misfortune of being really, really stupid in the context of things.

"Sir, we could strategically hit this and this, it would be the most sound way to go about things-"

"NAH LET'S JUST KILL EVERYTHING MUAHAHAHAHA SEE HOW EVIL I AM I KILLED ALL THESE THINGS"

"B-but sir this isn't even really a light side decision, we'd still be killing people, just in a smarter way"

"DOES NOT INVOLVE THE SLAUGHTER OF BABIES, IT IS THE INFERIOR CHOICE"

 

Some of the DS choices are delightful though and make sense in the context of the story. The ones involving Thana Vesh come to mind. They're just few and far between. On my DS inquisitor I had a lot of moments where I chose the LS option because the DS one was so monumentally idiotic. On my warrior I could kind of justify these because the warrior is supposed to be HURR DURR DARK SIDE SMASH but the inquisitor is supposed to be clever, so the generic DS quest choices don't fit.

 

Obviously the LS/DS choices for the individual class quests are much better tailored than the quests everyone gets.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Beslley

[DarthTHC]

Way back during late game test or maybe early launch the developers shared a tale about how they came to terms with what would be Light and Dark side choices.

 

It boiled down to Light is direct action or inaction that immediately saves a life or eliminates harm while Dark is direct action or inaction that immediately causes death or harm.

 

I can't recall any light/dark choice that strayed from that guideline.

[Beslley]

Way back during late game test or maybe early launch the developers shared a tale about how they came to terms with what would be Light and Dark side choices.

 

It boiled down to Light is direct action or inaction that immediately saves a life or eliminates harm while Dark is direct action or inaction that immediately causes death or harm.

 

I can't recall any light/dark choice that strayed from that guideline.

 

A couple quests handle the LS/DS choice really well, though, especially the

end of act 1 for the imperial agent. Deciding whether to activate the eradicators to trick Darth Jadus to capture him (costing lives up front but saving lives in the long run), or to shut down the eradicators and blow up the ship (Jadus survived one ship explosion, he could do it again and wreak havoc at a later date). Neither were really "good" or "evil" choices, which I appreciated.

 

It's a shame that more of the quests didn't handle the LS/DS choice in the same kind of way

Edited January 21, 2014 by Beslley