DeltaBos Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 I understand, but you are being unfair in your judgment. People who drop from your pug enjoy the game just as much as you do. I understand that and I agree, they enjoy the game as well. However, I fail to see a way in which everyone is happy. You can't separate weekly people from full clear people in the who list, and all you end up doing is piling up your ignore list. Creating that kind of a feature in the who list isn't a bad idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELRunninW Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Perhaps a compromise would be to allow ops leader to define where the weekly is locking everyone to that specific boss. People would have a choice to join the pug or not. That would require some work and peeps at BW are afraid of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBos Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Perhaps a compromise would be to allow ops leader to define where the weekly is locking everyone to that specific boss. People would have a choice to join the pug or not. That would require some work and peeps at BW are afraid of that. Although that sounds good in theory, the leader could just set the weekly to the first boss and be knock out the weekly in 10 minutes. Although if everyone agreed to that rule and were willing to do it that I don't see the problem. But alas, all mighty Bioware gets the final say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELRunninW Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Although that sounds good in theory, the leader could just set the weekly to the first boss and be knock out the weekly in 10 minutes. Although if everyone agreed to that rule and were willing to do it that I don't see the problem. But alas, all mighty Bioware gets the final say. Well, there would be no chance for the first boss I am sure. Consider having two options, current weekly or the last boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELRunninW Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) If you want full clear then set up group, make sure to have everyone join your voice chat and make it clear you are going for a full run. Any indication people do not like voice chat, or make you hurry up would suggest they can not be relied on. Edited January 3, 2014 by ELRunninW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBos Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 If you want full clear then set up group, make sure to have everyone join your voice chat and make it clear you are going for a full run. Any indication people do not like voice chat, or make you hurry up would suggest they can not be relied on. That is a very good idea. If someone drops after current weekly, but lead sets weekly to last boss, you could still pick up someone who wanted to get the weekly and is willing to do last boss for it. Great idea, should definitely be implemented into the game. Is Bioware going to take the time to consider this great idea and try to implement it into the game so as to satisfy the desires of the consumer... no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 You just said First time. People will probably get frustrated for a bit if this is implemented, but it won't take long for people to get used to the fights. When players were first attempting Explosive Conflict, it probably took a good few hours to clear, now a pug group could clear EC in an hour or two. People got used to the fights. it will make newer raiders have that much a harder time getting teams and give the elitists a warm fuzzy. not needed at all. and no one does EC anymore anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) I'm just tired of Bioware caving in to the cries of the noobs who would rather have everything nerfed than learn how to complete a difficult challenge. It really sucks out some of the joy from the hardcore raiders. Is it really asking too much that you learn ONE more fight? this game needs more tedium...thats the ticket to success. Edited January 4, 2014 by ivanhedgehog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Wow 3+ hours to complete a weekly? That is insane. Not insane, bad, really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphazoolou Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) most "real" raiders have most of there toons completely geared out in 78's by now with set bonuses. So forgive me If I end up having to pug a raid and do not feel like wasting an extra 2 hours for a few ultimate comms that will just be going to my companions anyway. and sense this is such an epidemic and you are such a "hardcore" raider I'm sure you'll be online when there are all these numerous people that are so butt sore that they didn't get a full clear of an operation that they are asking frantically to recreate the group and you will be able to finish your raid. but I'm guessing that does not happen much huh? which is why you are here complaining on the forms. minorities hardly are ever satisfied bioware will never give you what you ask. while I do admit I have done it before it has been very few times and most of them something really did come up generally always make my own raid group with the sole purpose of getting only the weekly Edited January 4, 2014 by alphazoolou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Stop catering to the kids who think Operations are too difficult and the badies who don't want to put forth the effort to finish Ops. Help us real raiders who actually care about finishing what we started. /signed Real raid groups will stay to the end anyway. You're probably just mad because you got in a comms run then all 15 others left after the weekly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) The funny thing is... the people the OP is whining about are probably part of that "real raidurzzz" group he keeps talking about. Newsflash OP; the "real raiders" are concerned with the higher difficulty Ops - not the weekly, and a lot of them will just go for the best time vs reward ratio, which is probably just stopping at the weekly boss. You don't even need to do every Operation to get capped on weekly commendations. Edited January 4, 2014 by Callaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfius Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Real raiders and pugs ... ouch what a mess. I am not a raider but do some pugs a week, most of time if PUG is created for full run and there is no clearly visible issue with group performance players stay till end. Exceptions - DP & DF - those are overturned for story mode, many pugs fail on 2nd and most on last bosses there. And it not work only with reading, need some runs to get SM on those above... but nobody wants to have not experienced players in groups. We have nice loop here... moving weeklies on last bosses would mean locking those 2 for most players = removing content. Bad idea... There may be some lure on all last bosses (even SM) more relics or implants drops (worst slots for any tank) or fluff (pets, speeders, shells) to get more group doing full runs (or at least try to do them)... but moving weeklies to last boss will actually hurt than help (at least on DF & DP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) I'm just tired of Bioware caving in to the cries of the noobs who would rather have everything nerfed than learn how to complete a difficult challenge. It really sucks out some of the joy from the hardcore raiders. Is it really asking too much that you learn ONE more fight? Not very smart, are we? These "noobs" you refer to are a majority of players and therefore are the reason this game still exists. Don't bite the hand that feeds you as they say. BW understands that they also need to accomodate the average player and not just the hardcore players or they can close shop. Do you get this? Seriously, it's a simple straightforward concept and I hope you get this. Secondly there are the hardcore players that at the same time that the "noobs" cry it's too hard, cry that ops are too easy. So what have BW done? They made it so the last boss is actually a much more intricate fight and the "noobs" don't have to cry about it because they can do the weekly without that fight and at the same time BW can offer a more interesting fight to the "real" raiders. This is the art of compromise so both sides of the story get something. I feel they've struck quite a good compromise here, but no, you must whine and have it all. Well, let me refer you back to my first point. In the end, if you do not get that this game NEEDS to cater to various player groups to stay alive, you will never understand why BW needs to compromise. These two elements are connected. I think BW already took a risk with the second boss in DF and I have seen recently that more pugs are attempting the last boss there. Your problem is simply this: You don't get that if you get what you want the game will die because too many people will give up on operations. And let me remind you that we are talking story mode here, which is intended to be easier. I don't see pugs for HM on the new ops yet. Anybody can get 78 comm gear with bad stats, but not everybody can get the 78 stuff from the HM ops, because pugs will invariably fail at HM unless they all happen to be raiders. Edited January 4, 2014 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceickerman Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I think he means final boss in each operation, he wants pug raid groups to stay for 3+ hours to complete their weekly. 3+ HOURS!? I stim up at the first pull and if my stim wears off before the op is finished, I'm out. And I should be able to get two ops out of one stim. Both TFB and DF can be done in 45 mins each with a pug group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Well it is pretty annoying how people mysteriously have to leave or go DC moments after the weekly boss dies...Word. And this is AFTER that the leader has stated, several times, that it is indeed a full run and that those who arent interested in a FULL run can leave. Still, always that one guy and once he drops you'll automatically lose another five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 3+ HOURS!? I stim up at the first pull and if my stim wears off before the op is finished, I'm out. And I should be able to get two ops out of one stim. Both TFB and DF can be done in 45 mins each with a pug group. Good luck explaining second DF boss to PUG and still making the run in 45 minutes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneirophrenia Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Pass. Weekly is there for the quick comms for casual players so no, let's not try to railroad everyone into the stupifying "hardcore" mentality. L2P issue aside (which I think is exaggerated to begin with), a lot of players simply do not have that much time to devote to ops on a weekly basis, assuming they actually want to get other stuff done such as leveling alts, shop on the GTN, crafting, dailies, etc. I'm personally not under any time constraint but I do know a lot of other players who have families or work odd hours who are. Frankly speaking, this discussion is obtuse and irrelevant to begin with since many DF/TFB SM operation groups are already doing "full runs" right now as those are neither difficult nor time consuming to begin with, even if the group has to drag along a few newbies. I'm not just speaking of guild runs but pugs as well since I start/join pugs at least half a dozen times on a weekly basis. As for SNV, even though I don't see as many "full runs" of that as the other two aforementioned ops, one can still find it fairly regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taramayne Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 If you want full clear then set up group, make sure to have everyone join your voice chat and make it clear you are going for a full run. Any indication people do not like voice chat, or make you hurry up would suggest they can not be relied on. ^ this. If you want a full clear with no droputs, make sure the whole group is on the same page before you start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavery Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 ^ this. If you want a full clear with no droputs, make sure the whole group is on the same page before you start. The problem is the group leader believes this to be the case. It is advertised as a full clear. The players in the raid acknowledge that they're here for the full run. And then the mass exodus begins as soon as the weekly boss dies. Players are choosing anti-social behaviour. The only solution to this problem -- and yes it is a problem -- is to change every weekly to the final boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orpheus Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 just give the weekly a bonus to clear the instance. Extra comms would give players an incentive to consider staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I feel like there should still be a Weekly for the half-way (roughly) point of the each Raid so that there is some achievable goal even for groups just starting out on the content. A sense of progression with notable milestones is what keeps a lot of groups going. But I could get behind the idea of it being turned into a Staged Weekly, where you get something like 10 (for DF/DP)/8 (for S&V/TFB/Classic) Ultimate Comms for reaching the current point and then a "Stage II" Weekly that'll give you a additional 8/5 comms for downing the last boss - giving a bit more for a full clear than you get now, so there's a "carrot", but also a bit less than you currently get if you jump ship at the half-way point, so there's a "stick". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taramayne Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The problem is the group leader believes this to be the case. It is advertised as a full clear. The players in the raid acknowledge that they're here for the full run. And then the mass exodus begins as soon as the weekly boss dies. Players are choosing anti-social behaviour. The only solution to this problem -- and yes it is a problem -- is to change every weekly to the final boss. I disagree about that being the ONLY solution. Another would be simply to do them with your guild; less chance of strangers who leave you hanging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATAMIANM Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Thinking out loud...Maybe a weekly or daily that grants extra comms to those who complete an operation through the final boss? And make it sweeter by having a unique vendor for those comms? Maybe even a cartel coins grant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeJagoff Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Wouldn't mind the weekly counting towards Any of the remaining bosses after the weekly. That way if you have a guy who bails at the weekly, you can get replacements easily who can still get credit for their weekly. Pretty much make the weekly ops quest like the priority targets quest...."Any of the following kills will give you credit for this mission" but just make it 1 boss at or after the current weekly bosses, i.e., "Killing Op9 -OR- Kephess -OR- The Terror From Beyond will grant the weekly credit" So you'd likely still have people leaving, but you could pick up replacements easily. I'd be opposed to the final boss only since if the pug can't get past say the ops chief and then people rage and the group breaks up, well there goes your ops group and you didn't even get the weekly out of it. In context to the 2 new ops, even in full 78s, people are still pretty clueless about the mechanics and often can't down Brontes or the council, so if devs did change the weeklies for those 2 to require downing the last boss, they'd probably have to nerf pretty much all the mechanics for pugs to be able to down them. SM is easy as it is....but pugs. =/ I've had lvl 55 pugs wipe over and over in EV SM, so... Edited January 5, 2014 by SomeJagoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts