Commando 2.6 Preview

[Vilanix]

I apologize if I came off hostile, Im just sick of the devs either lacking the comprehension to work on real fixes or being too stupid to realize that what they 'fix' doesnt actually fix anything.

 

Ive been a heavily involved member of the community since before launch. Im just tired of waiting for the devs to finally wake the fk up and make the changes that need to be made.

 

Putting Tech Override on a 60s cooldown would be an enormous help to this class. IMO it would probably be the one single change that would have the most improvement in PvP QoL. The devs even acknowledged how ridiculous the cooldowns on some of our abilities are in the Mercenary answers. How freaking hard is it to change the fking cooldown on an ability? Change it, send it to PTS, and lets us fk around with it since they are clearly too fking lazy/dumb/ignorant to do it themselves.

 

Not to mention I am getting really, really fking pissed about this Class Rep thing. Yet another instance of the dev team jerking us around.

 

/endrant

 

 

The two changes I would like to see is TO on a 45 second cool down and my 30m cryo grenade back

[midianlord]

I said it before, and I'll keep saying it, as many others also have. (Apologies for the Merconese )

 

Even without those two talent-points in Arsen/Gunny, pushback is not a big problem for us (at least IME). With the talent, it's practically non-existent.

 

Tracer Missile/Grav Round and PowerShots/Charged Bolts need to be un-interruptable.

 

Lower their raw damage if you absolutely must (hint: This is not needed, but I can't see it not happening, given the usual MMO-dev paradigm of excessively-huge-nerf-in-exchange-for-small-buff.)

 

I most ardently hope/pray that they will fix the Barrage/Curtain of Fire so it actually works consistently, without making ProtoAccelerator/Ionic Accelerator as bad as Barrage/CoF is now, because that would completely ruin Pyro/Assault. Again.

 

Do it right, and un-interruptable TM/GR and PShot/CB wouldn't be over-powered, because you wouldn't need to spam it whilst fishing for a proc that doesn't!

 

Barrage/CoF makes the Unload/Full-Auto un-interruptabe. Add a fourth tick to it as well. (Like the Slinger's Speed Shots/Sniper's Series of Shots).

 

^^That^^ done right is what would keep an un-interruptable TM/GR and PShot/CB from being OP, because:

 

Bear in mind --unless I'm hugely mistaken-- that "un-interruptable" in TOR parlance just means "immune to the effect of the actual interrupt-ability." It does not render you immune to mezz, stun, knock-back/knockdown and other things that aren't "actual" interrupts, but still cause one. (<---IOW, the "un-shakeable" buff for Snipingers -- all these things can shut one off/physically control him if he doesn't have Entrench/Hunker Down up. This is what Mercs/Mandos need. This what we have always needed.)

 

Just as an aside: How can a dev-team be as utterly clueless as this lot seems to be, and still have jobs?

Edited January 6, 2014 by midianlord

[TylerAcalan]

Lower their raw damage if you absolutely must (hint: This is not needed, but I can't see it not happening, given the usual MMO-dev paradigm of excessively-huge-nerf-in-exchange-for-small-buff.)

 

See that's a particular problem that no one wants. They don't hit hard enough to warrant ANY kind of damage reduction to make them instant. There's plenty of other talents that are insta-cast on other classes that hit for the same amount.

 

HIB is our true devastator but requires that we set up a DOT on our opponent first. The first use of HIB can only be done when you proc the Plasma Cell charge before you get other abilities at higher level. And they can be cleansed pretty quick.

 

This is an example of SMALL CONSISTENT CHANGE that the Devs need to take. Don't hit it with an overwhelming whopping change in an attempt to "balance out" the ability. Make the small change by removing the cast time first.

 

Then monitor the change.

 

If it's too potent, THEN whack the damage value.

 

DON'T try to balance it out in one go, from their past history THAT DOESN'T WORK.

 

Just as an aside: How can a dev-team be as utterly clueless as this lot seems to be, and still have jobs?

 

Oblivious Denial.

[cashogy_reborn]

They wont, and shouldnt, be making GR/CB instant cast on a permanent basis. We are a ranged class, casting balances out our ability to do damage from range.

 

Short-term mechanics are the answer here. Commando should be the kind of class that sits back and fires away at the enemy, and when the enemy gets in their face they keep on trucking and outputting damage. Tech Override is the most obvious way to make that happen; short term mechanic that allows us to use casted abilities instantly.

 

I have proposed in the past a mechanic that functions off of Stock Strike, granting 2-3 charges of Tech Override after using Stock Strike. This gives a melee attack in a ranged class an actual use; melee enemy in your face? Use Stock Strike, get charges of TO and youre able to fight back. Give it a short recourse timer of 15-20s, and youre cooking with fire. I had been calling it "run and gun" in the past, but if we actually got the change I could care less about the name.

 

The developers are very uninspired in their balancing decisions. Itd be real fking solid if we could get a dialogue about some of these changes. You know, what the class rep program was supposed to do?

[ArchangelLBC]

Honestly I think giving CoF the same proc beavior as IA would settle all of gunnery's PVE problems. More FA is not only more damage, but whenever you're lucky enough to have the procs rolling, everyone knows how easy ammo management is. It's when you go a full CD cycle without getting a single proc that things get really hairy. Change the proc chance to be additive and we're good to go. I wouldn't argue against making HiB free again either, but whatever. For PVP lower TO to 60 seconds as requested (along with RP), and for God's sake put some interrupt immunity on something, personally I like Hold the Line for this, and boom. The class is fixed in PVP too.

 

 

Also give us Battle Focus because not having an offensive cooldown is flat out BS Bioware.

Edited January 5, 2014 by ArchangelLBC

[midianlord]

[...]

 

I have proposed in the past a mechanic that functions off of Stock Strike, granting 2-3 charges of Tech Override after using Stock Strike. This gives a melee attack in a ranged class an actual use; melee enemy in your face? Use Stock Strike, get charges of TO and youre able to fight back. Give it a short recourse timer of 15-20s, and youre cooking with fire. I had been calling it "run and gun" in the past, but if we actually got the change I could care less about the name.

 

I like this, but....

 

But, IMHO, it doesn't go far enough on its own.

 

We need to be able to get the f out of melée range right now, and stay out of it at least for a while.

 

So, new ability, class-native, available from somewhere in the middle-game (Again, apologies for the Merconese )

 

Emergency Blast-off:

 

Instant

Heat: 0

Cooldown: (20-30 seconds)

 

Overloads your jet-pack and rockets you up and away from your location 22m forward in the direction your camera is facing. The exhaust-wash and shock-wave from the blast off will knock-down and stun up to (XX) enemies within a (YY) meter radius of the blast-off for (ZZ) seconds. This ability is de-coupled from the Global Cool-down, and can be used whilst physically controlled/impaired.

 

Talents: (I figure two talent-points, per the usual [50/100%] chance of giving these effects)

 

Arsenal:

 

Sonic Shock [1/2]:

 

Your Emergency Blast-off's down-wash/shock-wave has a [50/100]% to deal [XXXX-YYYY] Kinetic damage to up to (some number) of enemies caught in its area of effect. This effect also makes enemies vulnerable to RailShot.

 

Pyro:

 

Chemical Burn [1/2]:

 

Your Emergency Blast-off has a [50/100]% chance to leave a fire burning in its area of effect, burning up to [XX] enemies for [YYYYY] damage over (12-18, let's say) seconds. Enemies who remain in the area of effect are also slowed by 70% as long as they remain in the area for the duration. Standard or weak NPC enemies are also panicked and rendered unable to act by the flames over the duration.

 

BodyGuard:

 

Kolto-Saturated Exhaust [1/2]:

 

Your Emergency Blast-off has a [50/100]% chance to heal up to [some number of-] allies in its area of effect for [XXXX] instantly, and a further [YYYY] over [12-18] seconds. Enemies caught in this effect are slowed by 70% over the duration as long as they remain in the area of effect. Although this effect does not require or consume stacks of Combat Support Cylinder, existing stacks are applied to the healing effect up to a maximum of +3% for 30 stacks.

 

(Experienced healers, feel free to add any creative use of Supercharged Gas to this as well!)

 

The developers are very uninspired in their balancing decisions. Itd be real fking solid if we could get a dialogue about some of these changes. You know, what the class rep program was supposed to do?

 

It's not just in balancing. This whole game is informed by a disgustingly lazy, intellectually-imprisoned design ethic, quiveringly craven un-willingness to even try and innovate in any way, and almost comically shoddy execution.

 

That's very sad: the Star Wars mythos is worthy of so much better.

[klham]

I think Cashogy's idea of temporary instant casting proc'd off Stock Strike is great. It's temporary and is situationally dependent (it requires you to be face-to-face with melee). As for push back, the only time it's a real annoyance for me in pvp is when trying to pop off our loooong casted single-target mez (Concussion Round). Typically, it's not even worth the bother trying.

 

I also think it's necessary to see Commando changes within the context of other class changes. With a significant buff to Operative DPS, warzones will likely see the return of this (formerly) commando-killing class. Tech Override and Electronet are an essential part of a commando's defensive rotation when trying to kite a good stealth dps. Given stealth reliance on in-combat cc, commandos have very brief and intermittent windows in which they can deal damage. Having both Tech Override and Electronet available is probably the greatest determining factor in our ability to survive an ambush by a good stealth mdps. The current long cd's render a commando very vulnerable for disproportionate lengths of time.

 

I'm just very concerned about any return to that long period when commandos were widely regarded as free kills and sitting ducks that could be stun-locked and bursted down without being able to get a rotation off. That condition persisted in the game for far too long. I'm glad to see the incremental improvements, but we need to keep in mind that pvp class balance is entirely relative.

Edited January 5, 2014 by klham

[cashogy_reborn]

I like the disengage idea, its something that has been discussed in the past as well. Making it similar to the Slinger/Sniper roll in the way that each spec has a different additional effect would be a nice touch as well.

 

That said, I think there are ways for us to be better at controlling distance w/out adding a new ability (which is pretty dev-intensive, with entirely new code/animations/etc).

 

- The Full Auto slow talent should be changed to a 70% slow + hinder (same effect as E-Net), to prevent leaping during the channel. I dont know how many times I have the slow negated bc my target just uses a gap closer on me, cancelling out the slow AND interrupting the channel.

- A ranged root in Assault. Im not completely sure what ability it should be tied to (possible Explosive Round? its not spam-able), but Assault is in desperate need of some more range-control abilities. Preferably have this as a tier 1 talent so its available to all builds

 

If we were actually able to kite effectively (not indefinitely, but with at least *some* success), I think the situation would seem a lot less bleak. The key to our future is Tech Override. It should really be a focal point of the way our class functions.

 

 

I do want to reiterate that I am excited about the Combat Medic changes. Between being able to heal ourselves w/ Hammershot and multiple targets for Trauma Probe (even if its just 1 additional target), I think that is a huge step forward for the spec. I will be testing out the changes, but I have a theory that our survivability in heal spec will be up a lot. However, I do wish that the devs would go with a mechanic that heals you *and* your target with Hammershot (or does damage *and* heals you). I had suggested something similar in the past, along the lines of "you heal yourself for 50% of your bonus healing when healing or damaging a target w/ Hammershot". Its a bit more lore-accurate (shooting yourself is even less realistic than shooting health to your teammates lol), and I think would be a smoother overall mechanic.

Edited January 5, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[diadox]

Emergency Blast-off:

 

I find the general idea interesting, but I'm not sure I find all of those effects feasible with a 20-30 second cooldown. It's an off gcd immediate-escape ability that is also an aoe stun and a semi-stunbreaker (doesn't actually break stuns, but it will most of the time put you out of harms way from the burst that often follows a well placed stun; essentially nullifying it). Even disregarding the spec specific boosts, that is a whole lot of juice squeezed into a 20-30 sec cooldown. If it did less stuff it could probably have that kind of cooldown (which I would prefer to all that with a longer cooldown).

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have that kind of ability; I just don't see it as something that'd ever be put into the game

[Essence_of_Light]

Emergency Blast-off:

 

Instant

Heat: 0

Cooldown: (20-30 seconds)

 

Overloads your jet-pack and rockets you up and away from your location 22m forward in the direction your camera is facing. The exhaust-wash and shock-wave from the blast off will knock-down and stun up to (XX) enemies within a (YY) meter radius of the blast-off for (ZZ) seconds. This ability is de-coupled from the Global Cool-down, and can be used whilst physically controlled/impaired.

 

Talents: (I figure two talent-points, per the usual [50/100%] chance of giving these effects)

 

I like this idea, but I feel it could be 'exploited' (lack of a better term) to get to the battlefield quickly. For example: Sort of like the scoundrel/operative roll at 55.

 

I'm going to change the description to what I think would be best (I'll put in bold what I changed/added):

 

Emergency Blast-off:

 

Instant

Heat: 12

Cooldown: (45 seconds)

Limitations: Only useable in combat, drops Huttball when used (if you have it)

 

 

Overloads your jet-pack (or rocket boots(if you're a commando)) and rockets you up and away from your location 25m forward in the direction your camera is facing. The exhaust-wash and shock-wave from the blast off will knock-down and stun up to (XX) enemies within a (YY) meter radius of the blast-off for (ZZ) seconds. Due to the heat from your landing, this ability also reveals stealthed opponents where you land in a 7 meter radius. This ability is de-coupled from the Global Cool-down, and can be used whilst rooted but not while stunned.

 

Talents: (I figure two talent-points, per the usual [50/100%] chance of giving these effects)

 

What do you guys think of my additions/changes to the idea?

Edited January 6, 2014 by Essence_of_Light

[TheSupaCoopa]

Duran'del here:

 

Honestly, the 100% push back resistance is great for PvE. While I was leveling my DPS commando, I found that Push back did hurt my damage output. Its definitely a difference, but I don't know how it will change Commandos for PvP.

 

Combat Medic has gotten a much needed buff. I would have also liked to see 0% push back for MP and AMP, along with a buff to BI, but I'm happy that BW is finally getting Commandos back to where they need to be. I'm totally placing TP on my MT, myself, and OT when I raid.

 

I'm quite happy to see my second favorite class get a buff, and I hope the Brainstorming thread is still going.

[ArchangelLBC]

Duran'del here:

 

Honestly, the 100% push back resistance is great for PvE. While I was leveling my DPS commando, I found that Push back did hurt my damage output. Its definitely a difference, but I don't know how it will change Commandos for PvP.

 

Combat Medic has gotten a much needed buff. I would have also liked to see 0% push back for MP and AMP, along with a buff to BI, but I'm happy that BW is finally getting Commandos back to where they need to be. I'm totally placing TP on my MT, myself, and OT when I raid.

 

I'm quite happy to see my second favorite class get a buff, and I hope the Brainstorming thread is still going.

 

Honestly, the 100% Pushback resistance isn't that great for PVE.

[TylerAcalan]

It may not be great but it's not damaging ether. No point in ************ about it when it's a neutral change for PvE.

[cashogy_reborn]

It may not be great but it's not damaging ether. No point in ************ about it when it's a neutral change for PvE.

 

You know how I can tell you havent been here very long?

[midianlord]

I like this idea, but I feel it could be 'exploited' (lack of a better term) to get to the battlefield quickly. For example: Sort of like the scoundrel/operative roll at 55.

 

I'm going to change the description to what I think would be best (I'll put in bold what I changed/added):

 

Emergency Blast-off:

 

Instant

Heat: 12

Cooldown: (45 seconds)

Limitations: Only useable in combat, drops Huttball when used (if you have it)

 

 

Overloads your jet-pack (or rocket boots(if you're a commando)) and rockets you up and away from your location 25m forward in the direction your camera is facing. The exhaust-wash and shock-wave from the blast off will knock-down and stun up to (XX) enemies within a (YY) meter radius of the blast-off for (ZZ) seconds. Due to the heat from your landing, this ability also reveals stealthed opponents where you land in a 7 meter radius. This ability is de-coupled from the Global Cool-down, and can be used whilst rooted but not while stunned.

 

Talents: (I figure two talent-points, per the usual [50/100%] chance of giving these effects)

 

What do you guys think of my additions/changes to the idea?

 

That seems reasonable. (I like the stealth-breaker on landing...Think of he tears it might generate from Force-Camo'ed smashers! Because seriously, just **** them )

 

Yeah, not whilst hard-stunned/sleep'ed, but physically controlled --IE slowed, rooted, grappled/pulled if you can hit it fast enough.

[SWEtree]

A small step in right direction is much better than a huge step into the future nerflake. Im happy with this. Keep it up!

[venomlash]

- The Full Auto slow talent should be changed to a 70% slow + hinder (same effect as E-Net), to prevent leaping during the channel. I dont know how many times I have the slow negated bc my target just uses a gap closer on me, cancelling out the slow AND interrupting the channel.

- A ranged root in Assault. Im not completely sure what ability it should be tied to (possible Explosive Round? its not spam-able), but Assault is in desperate need of some more range-control abilities. Preferably have this as a tier 1 talent so its available to all builds

 

If we were actually able to kite effectively (not indefinitely, but with at least *some* success), I think the situation would seem a lot less bleak. The key to our future is Tech Override. It should really be a focal point of the way our class functions.

 

I like these a lot.

Making the Cover Fire talent apply a hinder effect would do wonders for our ability to keep enemies at range. Heck, make Hindered work properly for mobs (I've been leapt to by hindered adds so much...) and this would be somewhat useful utility for PvE too. It would definitely make taking us down in PvP require some amount of skill, to time ones gap closers/stealthouts properly so as to avoid getting pinned down, which would make the game better.

 

Tech Override really is our signature ability; no other class in the game, caster or otherwise, gets an instacast-of-your-choice ability like it. My proposal to make it more useful for other specs than Gunnery would be:

 

-Combat Medic: the damage or healing done by abilities affected by Tech Override is increased by X% (maybe 50%?)

This would improve our burst heal capacity slightly, giving us a tool kind of like the Sage's Force Potency. Probably should tie this to a talent high in the tree, otherwise Gunnery will want to take it and be OP.

-Assault Specialist: DoTs that critically hit have a Y% chance to reduce the active cooldown on Tech Override by 3 seconds, with an internal rate limit of 3 seconds.

This would effectively cut the cooldown on TO in half, assuming one is careful about keeping one's DoTs ticking. As it stands currently, TO is almost useless for Assault. Again, this should be high in the tree to stop Gunnery from taking it and going nuts.

[SWEtree]

Is there a release date of 2.6?.....I just realised im totally going back to healingspecc

[akabane_k]

Is there a release date of 2.6?.....I just realised im totally going back to healingspecc

 

I heard feb 4

[SWEtree]

I heard feb 4

 

cheers

[cashogy_reborn]

Hopefully either this week or next we see a PTS build so we can see what the patch notes are. As far as class changes go I wouldnt expect anything more than what Musco already told us we were getting.

[TheSupaCoopa]

Duran'del here:

 

Quite honestly, the devs are just giving us buffs because they think that if they don't, we'll be sad. Its like giving us half of the last piece of cake at a party.

 

But it seems we don't want any of that wimpy little slice of cake. We wanted the same piece everyone got, but the line was too long.

 

And I agree. Commandos are THE laughing stock of SWTOR right now. We need a lot more than that teeny little piece of cake you gave us, Bioware. We really do.

 

Gunnery:

I quite liked Cashogy's suggestion, but it seems like Tech Override already gives us Insta-casts. However, we do really need some sort of defense from melee classes, so I really like your idea. Interrupt immunity for GR and CB, more reliable CoF procs, and interrupt immunity on CiF prices would all be welcome additions. 2% DR per stack of Charged Barrier would also be nice.

 

Combat Medic:

Healing Commandos have THE hardest time healing. In Ops, its a race against time to heal your teammates. Same for PvP. We just don't heal enough and we die too quickly. I think Combat Medic's should be get a new talent. This would decrease the CD of Reserve Power cell and give 2 charged of said ability. We also need BI to get a lot more oomph. Commandos have the hardest learning curve of all healers, and we fall apart under pressure.

 

Haven't played Assault yet, but I'm sure its got its problems.

[DarthSpekulatius]

Duran'del here:

 

the changes to heal specc are most probably overkill in PVE without reducing the actual problem of the high skill requirement Mando Heals are perfectly viable

what would have been needed for PVE would have been a small Ammo return on Hammershot during SCC or more flexibility with recharge cells.

 

my Mandoheal has both instances cleared without trouble and we have not one raid without at least one Mando DPS

(we raid HC pretty much every day of the week)

 

If you think Mandos are a laughing stock YOU are the problem.

that doesn't mean Mandos are Perfect but no Class is that.

[TheSupaCoopa]

the changes to heal specc are most probably overkill in PVE without reducing the actual problem of the high skill requirement Mando Heals are perfectly viable

what would have been needed for PVE would have been a small Ammo return on Hammershot during SCC or more flexibility with recharge cells.

 

my Mandoheal has both instances cleared without trouble and we have not one raid without at least one Mando DPS

(we raid HC pretty much every day of the week)

 

If you think Mandos are a laughing stock YOU are the problem.

that doesn't mean Mandos are Perfect but no Class is that.

 

Duran'del here:

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the Commando class. I've done several raids as heal and DPS. Its just we need more buffs to make us better.

[DarthSpekulatius]

Duran'del here:

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the Commando class. I've done several raids as heal and DPS. Its just we need more buffs to make us better.

 

that's quite diffrent then calling the class a useless laughing stock