How do I get better?

[georgemattson]

Old hardcore reps pvp'ers mostly leave game with removing 8x8 ranked, and new (2.0 bolstered) generation of reps are just brainless degenerates in pve gear low valor and low expertise. There are just terribads useless trash, cannon folders, headless chickens morons with loud mouthes and zero skill. Its wonder in these days see reps pvp'er on warzone with 2018 expertise and 60+ valor. Most of them just pve mouse clickers crabs with 900-1500 expertise without any idea about min/maxing gear and warzones strategy.

Dhaima, Uggen, I'gor, Aerith, Theo, Slicker, Apostol, where are you?

 

So... this quote pretty much sums up what I am a part of on the Republic side in 55 WZ PvP on PoT5. While I've managed to avoid some of the accusations here (I have 2018 expertise thanks to Dawginole's Combat Sentinel Min/Max Guide, refrain from talking trash, and keybind), I'm fully guilty of the rest. I know the objectives, I fight on node (usually), but I still get annihilated pretty frequently, am usually the low player on the scoreboard, and have some questions.

 

- What kind of things are expected of a combat sentinel in a warzone? Had a match a couple days ago where someone commented, "Our combat sentinel doesn't use trans. Awesome." Had to ask what "trans" was (I told you I'm bad), but then I understood and now I wonder; when should I be using that? Start of the match? When trying to attack or defend a node? Keep it in reserve for emergencies? Also, are there other things like this that I'm expected to do?

 

- If I can't do squat worth of DPS due to lack of skill, does it make sense to still queue for unranked solo matches? I still do enough to get my daily/weekly commendations so that I can get better gear, but I wonder if I should go back to PvE for a while, parse my damage with something like Parsec, and only come back (or only do more than my daily/weekly coms) when I hit a certain level? At present, I'm a detriment to any team I join, and I'd prefer not to be "that guy" again.

 

- What kind of time frame is typical for a brand new PvP player (not just brand new to SWTOR PvP, but brand to PvP in general) to become useful? Weeks? Months? Years?

 

- Are there any kind of tips you'd suggest for improving situational awareness within a melee itself? I run into situations quite frequently where I am about to join a melee but have no clue who to hit. Five pubs on our side, six imps on theirs (or something similar), and I can't find the healer. I might tab over to the operative or the guy with the target marker, but have no clue visually if he's standing right in front of me or to the side. I'll often use Twin Saber Throw or leap just to find out, but then I'll lose track of him as he's running around. In fact, losing track of everyone is a constant problem for me. And of course, there's no telling whether the healer I'm targeting is the right one.

 

- After reading about focus target, I have that keybound and I understand how this could be very useful, but who do I pick as my focus target? On the one hand, I can see setting that on the node guard, but as a DPS it occurs to me that using it for focus fire would be even more useful. But who would I pick for that? The DPS on my side with the highest valor? Anyone who speaks up and calls strategy? Someone else?

 

- Finally, how much of this is gear related? I have a sneaking suspicion that my skill level is just atrocious and I need to practice a heck of a lot more to be viable in warzones, but I have to ask if maybe my gear is handicapping enough to make me unviable whereas I might otherwise be able to contribute. FWIW (going off memory, as I'm at work atm; slow day), I'm mostly in purple 58 PvE gear, but have managed to pick up the first four items from Dawginole's guide listed previously, pulled those out, and put those into orange gear. I have about half purple & blue might augment 28s, and my relics are both from the conqueror set (one is the serendipitous one; I forget the other, but it was the strength boost). Both implants and the earpiece are purple PvE; 58 or lower. I bolster to a little over 26k hp and IIRC, something like 1400-1600 damage. I know this is low, but is this low enough that I should be expected to be at the bottom of the scoreboard? In other words, if it's the gear that's making me crap I can suck it up and drive on, knowing that I'll gear up and contribute as it gets better, but if it's me, I'm thinking I need to hit the training dummy and PvE content for a while before I go fully back into PvP.

 

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edited December 26, 2013 by georgemattson

[Rilok_Singz]

Edit for OP answers -

 

- watch some good streams and see what other good players are doing. Don't be afraid to ask them why they do certain things while they are live streams so they can give you an instant answer.

* http://www.ezpvper.com/#!sentinel/c146i

*http://www.twitch.tv/gudarz?utm_campaign=live_embed_click&utm_source=static.wix.com

 

- Check class forums and ask around to see more specifics as to what you as a sentinel are suppose to bring to the table. For starters though you want...

-Transcendence at the start of hutball

-keep constant dps on healers

-If you see another enemy getting low, help drop him

*http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=33

 

- This is gonna sound harsh but i'd do it - Transfer to The Bastion or start grinding a marauder. Sad truth is pubs do better there than pot5 which means instead of playing pro imp teams - you will have the chance to grow into more of a pvper just by having better pug groups show you the ropes

 

-Gear is a decent factor. Not as much as pre 2.0 but it would be wise to try to make your gear as close to the one I linked earlier

 

-PRACTICE !!! Yeah you might get ridiculed at times for being new, but that comes with being new and every player has been at that same point 1 time or another. Don't get discouraged. Learn to know what to listen to. Take constructive feedback's but ignore trolls who having no idea what they are talking about and just need to vent frustration even if they are the reason for the loss. Keep queing for regs and keep learning. Don't be afraid to duel every now and then to help. If ever on the bastion send me a mail and i'll help ya been proficient at sentinel in like a week lol.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Rilok_Singz

[Ridickilis]

I may not be doing it *exactly* right with Transcendence, so I'm partially asking the rest if this is what you want out of your combat/carnage specs, but I pretty much just pop it every 30 stack so long as I don't have another Sent's trans buff on me.

 

The only times I don't pop it at start I'm using "bloodthirst" (forgot the pub name, it's the one on a 5 minute CD that give +15% healing and damage raid wide). I use that at the start of VS, NC or any arena. Basically when speed isn't as much of an issue, I'll use that. Though I am nerfing myself a bit by not using beserk/zen enough.

 

For which healer go after, I had some of the same issues as you describe. I got used to using target of target. Set another DPS as your focus target. It's probably better in a group so everyone knows who's on point before you even start.

 

And then, in general while in a melee scrum, I usually go after whomever isn't CC'ed and has the lowest HP bar. If I'm the only melee, I'll just hang back by our ranged DPS/healers and wait till they come to us. No need to jump into 5 droolers just waiting to gank me hehehe.

 

As far as rotation and that sort of thing, KBN's combat guide is a good reference (scroll down to the rotation notes). In pvp it's never going to work perfectly like it does in a raid but this one paragraph did help me quite a bit.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Ridickilis

[doodbro]

you just have to do reg matches over and over again. many of us first started pvping in this game and at first we had to fight really good players with a lot of experience in wow and other places and we learned by getting wrecked. you don't see it much anymore but we'd do entire matches with just getting spawn camped because we bad and had no gear. that's why we have don't have a lot of sympathy for the bolstered noobs. that said, the situation that existed where you could learn as you go doesn't really exist right now since so many have left. prob the best thing to do now since you are a pub is find a healer buddy and just grind warzones and take the lumps. also watch darth nish's old videos about the spec.

 

for the focus window it's ideal used on voice coms with a target caller. since you are pugging put it on the guy who seems to be pretty good and run around assisting him.

Edited December 26, 2013 by doodbro

[Uber_the_Goober]

Play more and more and more and more. When you find strategies that work, implement them more often.

 

When you see yourself or others doing something that does not work, stop doing that.

 

Regs are for random PUG's. Don't feel bad about losing or being bad. Just make sure to observe the match, and watch those who are better. Integrate their strategies.

 

Watch some PvP guide videos on youtube for your class. Read about rotations, and practice it on a dummy until you understand it well enough that you're no longer thinking about which skill you should activate next, it simply happens.

 

Also, if you don't currently, start keybinding. Nobody who is any good clicks. It's just too hard to react fast enough. Plus with keybinds you can do multiple things at once, like pop a defensive that is off the GCD (global cooldown) while stunning an enemy, or interrupt someone the very moment they begin casting something, or when you anticipate that they WILL be casting something.

 

Time my friend. Time. Don't be afraid to suck. Just don't quit. One sure fire way to not improve is to quit.

[Jadescythe]

So... this quote pretty much sums up what I am a part of on the Republic side in 55 WZ PvP on PoT5. While I've managed to avoid some of the accusations here (I have 2018 expertise thanks to Dawginole's Combat Sentinel Min/Max Guide, refrain from talking trash, and keybind), I'm fully guilty of the rest. I know the objectives, I fight on node (usually), but I still get annihilated pretty frequently, am usually the low player on the scoreboard, and have some questions.

 

- What kind of things are expected of a combat sentinel in a warzone? Had a match a couple days ago where someone commented, "Our combat sentinel doesn't use trans. Awesome." Had to ask what "trans" was (I told you I'm bad), but then I understood and now I wonder; when should I be using that? Start of the match? When trying to attack or defend a node? Keep it in reserve for emergencies? Also, are there other things like this that I'm expected to do?

 

The speed boost with an extra 30% for Combat, is ideal for getting around the map. If you need to get to a location quickly as a team, that is the right time to use it. So, the beginning of ACW and NC will let your team get to the nodes to cap faster at the start. When you pick up the huttball, it will help get your ball carrier to the endzone faster or get to the ball at the start faster. If you just capped a door in VS, it will help you get to the next door ahead of the other team. If you are in one place and getting attacked in another, it will allow you to reach your destination in time to defend. Don't forget you have Valorous Call or whatever it's called to build 30 stacks and use the ability at will ever 2 min or so. You also get a full 30 stacks just by healing up before the warzone starts in your spec.

 

- If I can't do squat worth of DPS due to lack of skill, does it make sense to still queue for unranked solo matches? I still do enough to get my daily/weekly commendations so that I can get better gear, but I wonder if I should go back to PvE for a while, parse my damage with something like Parsec, and only come back (or only do more than my daily/weekly coms) when I hit a certain level? At present, I'm a detriment to any team I join, and I'd prefer not to be "that guy" again.

 

Yes, it makes sense. PvE will teach you rotations and rotations are the enemy in PvP. Knowing the combinations that will give you the maximum damage output is nice, but the chances of you actually getting all the way through without being interrupted are extremely low. In addition to knowing the highest damage possible, you should know what is most likely to actually get through as well as what abilities will continue hitting hard if your initial attack is interruped. I don't know the spec well enough to comment for Combat in general, but there are certain abilities that should be saved for your precision slash window.

 

- What kind of time frame is typical for a brand new PvP player (not just brand new to SWTOR PvP, but brand to PvP in general) to become useful? Weeks? Months? Years?

 

It depends on the class and your overall movement mechanics. People say that Sentinel is faceroll easy to play, but for someone getting used to the mechanics of mouseturning while hitting the right keys and becoming familiar with the mechanics of your class, that isn't necessarily the case. Focus is a much easier spec to play since it is less reliant on hitting a particular window of damage and the rotation is more simplistic, so that may be a better starting point for you. It also has a higher raw damage output.

 

- Are there any kind of tips you'd suggest for improving situational awareness within a melee itself? I run into situations quite frequently where I am about to join a melee but have no clue who to hit. Five pubs on our side, six imps on theirs (or something similar), and I can't find the healer. I might tab over to the operative or the guy with the target marker, but have no clue visually if he's standing right in front of me or to the side. I'll often use Twin Saber Throw or leap just to find out, but then I'll lose track of him as he's running around. In fact, losing track of everyone is a constant problem for me. And of course, there's no telling whether the healer I'm targeting is the right one.

 

Make sure your camera is zoomed way out. Most people leave the camera at the default distance from character and that doesn't allow you to see all around the map. This will probably resolve much of the problem with not seeing the right targets. It also allows you to start attacking one target while still searching for another, but until you're comfortable with playing your character, you won't be able to spend too much time searching the crowd. Focus fire can be your friend in this case. Even if it's the wrong target, if you have 3 people hitting one, you shouldn't have any problem killing them unless there are multiple healers on the other team. If there are, then don't focus so much on doing damage to your target as much as identifying the right target and blow your burst on that target when you can.

 

- After reading about focus target, I have that keybound and I understand how this could be very useful, but who do I pick as my focus target? On the one hand, I can see setting that on the node guard, but as a DPS it occurs to me that using it for focus fire would be even more useful. But who would I pick for that? The DPS on my side with the highest valor? Anyone who speaks up and calls strategy? Someone else?

 

Focus fire is a good idea in theory, but hardly ever works in PUGs for the reason you mention. Unless everyone decides on a focus target beforehand (haha, like that will happen), then check for any groups on your team. If there is a 4man premade or something, then pick a DPS of theirs to focus and hope they plan on actually focusing. I generally just save my focus target for the person guarding if I'm queuing solo. It's far easier to see two people hitting someone and join in than it is to try and pick the right focus target and follow them around.

 

- Finally, how much of this is gear related? I have a sneaking suspicion that my skill level is just atrocious and I need to practice a heck of a lot more to be viable in warzones, but I have to ask if maybe my gear is handicapping enough to make me unviable whereas I might otherwise be able to contribute. FWIW (going off memory, as I'm at work atm; slow day), I'm mostly in purple 58 PvE gear, but have managed to pick up the first four items from Dawginole's guide listed previously, pulled those out, and put those into orange gear. I have about half purple & blue might augment 28s, and my relics are both from the conqueror set (one is the serendipitous one; I forget the other, but it was the strength boost). Both implants and the earpiece are purple PvE; 58 or lower. I bolster to a little over 26k hp and IIRC, something like 1400-1600 damage. I know this is low, but is this low enough that I should be expected to be at the bottom of the scoreboard? In other words, if it's the gear that's making me crap I can suck it up and drive on, knowing that I'll gear up and contribute as it gets better, but if it's me, I'm thinking I need to hit the training dummy and PvE content for a while before I go fully back into PvP.

 

With the way that bolster works at this point, the only gear related problem is augments. If you have augments, then your gear will roughly be on par with everyone else as long as it is statted correctly. Training dummies can help you feel more comfortable controlling your toon and may help you identify what abilities synergize well, but you'll get far more out of actual combat in a warzone. If you haven't joined a guild yet, do it. It doesn't have to be the #1 PvP guild on the server, but guilds will go a long way toward identifying players who can help you get better, they have a population to give you people to play with and make your time in warzones more enjoyable, and they also give you players to duel, which can be valuable in learning how other classes work when you come up against them.

 

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

My answers are in red above. Remember, above all else, you've already taken the most important step to becoming better at PvP: you asked how to get better.

[psandak]

Time my friend. Time. Don't be afraid to suck. Just don't quit. One sure fire way to not improve is to quit.

 

This above all else be true

[sithBracer]

I would recommend starting with smash (focus spec) until you get very comfortable with your sentinel. Your current spec has a pretty high skill gap but is great for single target burst.

 

Definitely add augments to your gear. The gear difference it makes is huge. If you can't afford the purples start out with the blues and slowly get purples. The perfect PvE gear is 69purple hilt/barrel/armoring 63purple/66blue mod 61purple enhancement for MH/OH, 61 purple (with special ability) armoring 66blue mod and 69 purple enhancement for right side armor, 148 blue implants/earpieces (BiS is crafted 54s but these are much easier to get), 1 obroan PvP relic and the matrix cube.

 

As for finding the healer (op healer I'm guessing), just look behind the group for the guy pointed his finger, that's the op healer. When you find him put a marker on him and attack. You can even alt+f him for when he disappears. Just don't leap to him, run over and attack him. Use your leap as a finisher for when he tries to run away.

 

As for timeframe, everyone is different. Some are more quick to adapt, some never learn. If you see someone telling you that you screwed up (in their own colorful way), don't flame back, kindly ask him in pm what you did wrong and tell him that you are still new. If he replies with something like "YOU WARE A F*CKIN N00BERs", just stop talking to him (don't put him on ignore). Many people will understand that you are new and will explain your mistake and probably apologize for acting like a jerk. Don't give up, keep trying.

 

As for focus target, put it on an enemy healer to start with. You can see when sorcs finish their bubble and when ops come out of stealth. No need to put it on your node guard if he is properly calling out. Besides you can see his health going down in your ops frame.

 

Keep trying, don't give up and before you know it, you will be helping other new players get up to speed.

[Seireeni]

I'm afraid I'm probably not that much better than you are, but this reminded me of a problem I used to have:

 

I might tab over to the operative or the guy with the target marker, but have no clue visually if he's standing right in front of me or to the side. I'll often use Twin Saber Throw or leap just to find out, but then I'll lose track of him as he's running around. In fact, losing track of everyone is a constant problem for me.

 

Have you zoomed out your camera? Have you changed the camera max distance from the preferences? If not, I'd recommend trying it. I'm playing with 70% camera max distance I believe, and it helps me to keep a track on what's happening on the battle, since I can see more of the area (so the enemies rarely disappear from my screen, unless they LoS).

[Uber_the_Goober]

 

- What kind of things are expected of a combat sentinel in a warzone?

Contribute damage, and don't be Rambo. Learn your CC abilities, and use it when you know it will help you or your allies cap a node, or kill an enemy. Otherwise, save them. Use your group speedbuff when it will help you get to the node.

 

- If I can't do squat worth of DPS due to lack of skill, does it make sense to still queue for unranked solo matches?

Yes. Practice makes perfect (or, at least better)

 

- What kind of time frame is typical for a brand new PvP player (not just brand new to SWTOR PvP, but brand to PvP in general) to become useful? Weeks? Months? Years?

Expect months until you learn your class well enough to know how it can be used to counter other players. The random and unpredictable nature of the battles make it worth it when you finally figure it out though.

 

- Are there any kind of tips you'd suggest for improving situational awareness within a melee itself?

Turn on "target of target". Also, make sure that your target's castbar is LARGE. So you can read the ability they're casting when you have them targeted. Then, learn the abilities of other classes, so you know when it is worth your time to attack them. For example, a powertech with the glowing gold ring underneath him - don't bother using a slow or root. He's immune. You'll need to hard stun him to counter it, or else he'll run all over you. A sorcerer using force bubble shouldn't be touched. Keep them in line of sight though, and resume the pummeling once that bubble drops. It also may help to adjust your nameplate settings, so that you don't lose your mind. Friendly nameplates are not required if you're just learning how to derp dps (forgive me ). Too much clutter. When you get better, or run a healer, friendly nameplates are good.

 

- After reading about focus target, I have that keybound and I understand how this could be very useful, but who do I pick as my focus target?

Melee doesn't benefit from focus target. It's a PvE thing really. When you die in a warzone, you normally respawn far enough away that your focus target gets removed anyway. Just make sure you are attacking healers first, and if they're not marked with a star or reticule, then mark them. Also, if the healer is guarded, make sure you're not the only person attacking him. It's a waste of your time. Either team up, or move onto the guard. Who is the guard? It's the one with the small circle of bluish hexagonal lines underneath him. The one being guarded has the obvious blue shield around him. Also, if you hit the healer, and you see damage text pop up on someone ELSE, that's probably the guard.

 

- Finally, how much of this is gear related?

With bolster, not much. It amounts to a 5% to 10% performance boost, enough that a highly skilled player can make wise use of it, but not nearly as bad as it used to be.

 

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

My replies in red. I expect to see you out there.

[Jadescythe]

Not plugging any streamer in particular here, but Twitch streams can be fun to watch and you can see how other people play their class. Some people are better than others about participation and I don't know of any streamers who are particularly helpful in terms of explaining what is going on, but you will pick up hints as far as UI, moving the camera around, etc.

[Devilk]

Learning the abilities and the hard casted icons of the other classes will help you recognize attacks. Take a gander at torhead. Look at the other classes skill trees and familiarize yourself with their abilities.

[BuzzingFridge]

From the first time I PvPed to the first time I actually made a heavy contribution to a win...months. Then again, this was my first MMO so I was pretty horrible to begin with. I remember thinking after a few months that I'd pretty much hit the skill cap and couldn't possibly get any better...lawl.

[Morde_]

What a nice thread. 5 stars.

[JabstJaif]

I'll answer your questions one at a time and then I'll add more info at the end.

 

- What kind of things are expected of a combat sentinel in a warzone? Had a match a couple days ago where someone commented, "Our combat sentinel doesn't use trans. Awesome." Had to ask what "trans" was (I told you I'm bad), but then I understood and now I wonder; when should I be using that? Start of the match? When trying to attack or defend a node? Keep it in reserve for emergencies? Also, are there other things like this that I'm expected to do?

 

I will be talking from my Carnage Marauder's point of view. It is the same as yours just on the different faction. The whole point about transcendence is that it increases your movement speed by about 90% I believe in combat/carnage.. If you do that at the beginning everyone gets to the nodes faster. Here's the nice thing...you are a combat sentinel. You have a move in your skill tree called contemplation that allows you to use intropsection and build up your zen that way. You should do this everytime before the match starts so you can pop transcendenceif needed.

 

People usually expect/want this from sentinels and marauders because it's a nice benefit to the ops group.

 

- If I can't do squat worth of DPS due to lack of skill, does it make sense to still queue for unranked solo matches? I still do enough to get my daily/weekly commendations so that I can get better gear, but I wonder if I should go back to PvE for a while, parse my damage with something like Parsec, and only come back (or only do more than my daily/weekly coms) when I hit a certain level? At present, I'm a detriment to any team I join, and I'd prefer not to be "that guy" again.

 

Don't quit PvP just because you are performing well right now. There is a very steep learning curve for maras/sentinels in PvP. Way more than people give credit for. We have light armor and can get squished easily when focused. The difference between a decent mara/sent and a great mara/sent is awareness. You must understand how your class plays in PvP. You aren't a tank. You can't handle getting hit too hard. When this happens, you should either be popping defensive CDs or you should be cloaking out.

 

When my mara first hit 55 I didn't play him because I was in the same boat as you. I took him into wz's and tried to beat people to death only to die the most on my team. Why? Because I was leaping in and I didn't truly know how to play my class. The problem with PvE for sentinels is that it usually teaches us to leap on the boss and delve into our rotation to bring out maximum dps. Combat/Carnage spec is all proc based. And you can rip someone apart if you time everything right. There isn't a set rotation in PvP (except for your opener) and from then on it is hitting stuff on priority as it comes off of cooldown. I went from doing at best 200k dps and dying more than I had successfully killed people, to now usually doing over 500k dps and on average a 25-3 K-D ratio. You use your cooldowns way more frequently in PvP than you will in PvE. I would recommend doing more PvP to understand your cooldowns. If you don't work on these you won't last long enough to give great dps numbers.

 

You might wonder how an improvement like that happened to me overnight?... Well it didn't. I spent time studying the class, how the ones who mastered our class played, and I picked up tips from them. Tips like...if you start attacking a group and they shift focus to you...you need to cloak out to lose focus...get away then leap back in. Or pop some defensive cooldowns when you do so if they refocus you, you last.

 

- What kind of time frame is typical for a brand new PvP player (not just brand new to SWTOR PvP, but brand to PvP in general) to become useful? Weeks? Months? Years?

 

It all depends on how much you are going to pick up from others who master PvP. There is information out there. People to help you and write long posts on forums instead of having a life . You can do thousands of matches and slowly learn the things for yourself. Or you can do what you did, ask questions, and learn from the answers. You can also watch streams of some of the better maras/sents out there and pick up on their skills and note the smart things they do to outlast their opponent. At the bottoms I'll post a few streams to go through and watch the vids on.

 

- Are there any kind of tips you'd suggest for improving situational awareness within a melee itself? I run into situations quite frequently where I am about to join a melee but have no clue who to hit. Five pubs on our side, six imps on theirs (or something similar), and I can't find the healer. I might tab over to the operative or the guy with the target marker, but have no clue visually if he's standing right in front of me or to the side. I'll often use Twin Saber Throw or leap just to find out, but then I'll lose track of him as he's running around. In fact, losing track of everyone is a constant problem for me. And of course, there's no telling whether the healer I'm targeting is the right one.

 

This is probably the toughest question to answer. And I say that because I have no set answer. If I were in this situation running into this group. I am not so sure what I would do. There are a bunch of different variables that would determine who I leap to. But even if I leapt to someone and wanted to change who I was focusing...I still could. I will tell you this, it is very hard for a sent/mara to 1v1 a healer. Unless he is undergeared that is. I have a sorc healer that I will not even worry with some sentinels attacking me because I ignore them and they can't even hit to the point of bothering me healing. Now some of the really good maras/sents I have to keep away from or I could have a problem on my hands. But again, unless you are a smasher with two leaps, if I keep several meters in front of you, you can't touch me. That is why 1v1ing a healer can be a pain in the butt.

 

From the scenario you listed, I probably would have done this. Picked out the lowest hp of the 6 imps that were on the enemies team. Leap to them and open up on him. The nice thing about leaping to opponents who are already fighting your friends is that you can hit them for a bit without them noticing you. Usually that is, unless of course they hit a group cc on you. As a combat sentinel though make sure to use your small saber throw. (The one you got at a low level) As a combat sentinel this will root the player and lower healing received by 20%. This makes hitting him easier when he's not mobile.

 

- After reading about focus target, I have that keybound and I understand how this could be very useful, but who do I pick as my focus target? On the one hand, I can see setting that on the node guard, but as a DPS it occurs to me that using it for focus fire would be even more useful. But who would I pick for that? The DPS on my side with the highest valor? Anyone who speaks up and calls strategy? Someone else?

 

I don't use the Alt+F focus target. I at least don't use it on enemies since it gets lost if they cloak or get out of range. You can focus fire simply from watching who everyone is going after. If you really want to use focus target, focusing your healer would be your best bet. Then you can watch and see when he is getting hit hard. I think you'd seem to spend more time setting up focus target than it'd be worth since most other classes die so much .

 

- Finally, how much of this is gear related? I have a sneaking suspicion that my skill level is just atrocious and I need to practice a heck of a lot more to be viable in warzones, but I have to ask if maybe my gear is handicapping enough to make me unviable whereas I might otherwise be able to contribute. FWIW (going off memory, as I'm at work atm; slow day), I'm mostly in purple 58 PvE gear, but have managed to pick up the first four items from Dawginole's guide listed previously, pulled those out, and put those into orange gear. I have about half purple & blue might augment 28s, and my relics are both from the conqueror set (one is the serendipitous one; I forget the other, but it was the strength boost). Both implants and the earpiece are purple PvE; 58 or lower. I bolster to a little over 26k hp and IIRC, something like 1400-1600 damage. I know this is low, but is this low enough that I should be expected to be at the bottom of the scoreboard? In other words, if it's the gear that's making me crap I can suck it up and drive on, knowing that I'll gear up and contribute as it gets better, but if it's me, I'm thinking I need to hit the training dummy and PvE content for a while before I go fully back into PvP.

 

58 gear? That's pretty bad if it's PvE gear. That's really low, like the old old Black Hole gear. I am guessing you left then came back with that gear? My tip to you is quickly run through Oricon. The story mission on that planet will give you a full set of 66 PvE gear. That gear over the 58s is going to be a large stat increase and I would recommend getting those. All of the while be q'd for pvp as the comms will help you out. It's almost too late to mention but you should've done the Gree PvP dailies every day. It yields 200 PvP comms just for completing the two missions. It's nice grinding out gear that way. Of course thanks to bolster it isn't screwing you over completely by having that gear. It's just not as good as you could have.

 

All right now I'm done with answering questions...now on to my stuff .

 

First off, I would recommend always...no...ALWAYS take a stim with you into PvP matches. Think about this...the prototype nano-infused might stim gives you around 169 strength and about 70 power I believe. That right there will give you a nice damage increase. It makes it totally worth the 8k it costs and it lasts 2 hours.

 

Second, go Here to watch some videos of Gudarzz playing on his mara. When I picked up my mara and really wanted to learn how to play him, I watched several of Gudarzz's videos. I learned his tactics for when to cloak, use a medpac, what cooldowns to use and when. And other than that just his overall rotation. I would love to show you me playing on my mara, but I haven't streamed any of him yet.

 

Third, play with guildies as much as you can. They will be able to watch you closely as you are in matches and give you constructive criticism on what you need to improve on and they can also lend hands in tactics and how to handle situations. Hearing all of this stuff will make you more prone to act wisely when put into these situations.

 

Best of luck to you. You show good initiative in at least stepping up and asking for help. Spend some time on the warzone test dummies on the fleet and put some of the ideas to good use. Practice implementing more moves than you do if they help you. Moves like crippling throw, and your cd's which when used should give you time to take people out.

Edited December 26, 2013 by JabstJaif

[Laoi]

gear = skill

 

/facepalm

 

srsly todays wannabe "pvp" generation just makes me wanna commit a genocide

[Laoi]

 

- What kind of time frame is typical for a brand new PvP player (not just brand new to SWTOR PvP, but brand to PvP in general) to become useful? Weeks? Months? Years?

 

 

in a proper mmo from the old days. years, easily

 

in swtor assuming u got a fully functioning brain and 2 arms with 5 fingers on each hand AND leaving gear out of the equation. minutes......literally minutes. obviously gear has a huge impact in todays noskill mmos but bolster will help you alot. aslong as u have 2018 expertise, minimum 29-30k hp, 2500+ mainstat and ~700ish bonus dmg u can be effective if u know what ur doing. u wont be scoring #1 in dps all the time since as i said before skill is a tiny factor in this game compared to real pvp mmos but if ur good u will still do better than the usual trash tier in the best gear available. thats mostly cos the usual trash tier in this game is 100 times worse than a trained chimp tho.

the difference between a good player in entry level gear and a good player in BiS gear is absolutely insane.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Laoi

[sithBracer]

58 gear? That's pretty bad if it's PvE gear. That's really low, like the old old Black Hole gear. I am guessing you left then came back with that gear? My tip to you is quickly run through Oricon. The story mission on that planet will give you a full set of 66 PvE gear. That gear over the 58s is going to be a large stat increase and I would recommend getting those. All of the while be q'd for pvp as the comms will help you out. It's almost too late to mention but you should've done the Gree PvP dailies every day. It yields 200 PvP comms just for completing the two missions. It's nice grinding out gear that way. Of course thanks to bolster it isn't screwing you over completely by having that gear. It's just not as good as you could have.

 

Don't get the 156 purple gear from oricon, it will lower your expertise. If you want some quick gear you can get the 66 blues from GTN, they are very cheap. But I would still recommend 61P/63P/69P or 61P/66B/69P for right side, 69P/63P/61P/41power crystal or 69P/63P/61P/41 power crystal for MH/OH, and 148 blues for you implants and earpiece. The only one that will be a pain in the behind to get is the 69 main hand hilt so a 66B/69P/61P might be almost as good.

[JabstJaif]

Alright, so avoid the 66s. I got them since all of my toons had old war hero which was almost worse than going in naked. Bolster is so screwed up that I never worried about messing with using it to max my stats. I just went and got full conqueror so full expertise is reached without worrying about the damn bolster.

[DemeXrt]

Read forums, look for gameplay videos, and keep practicing. For my first 55, I bought the warzone dummy and worked on key bindings and rotations. I used torparse to look at good vs. bad games and tried to simplify. Looked for good parses with fewer moves and then streamlined keybinds and skill tree points towards those skills.

 

Not sure I'll do all that as much for the current ones as they hit 55 but for the first, it was really pretty much required for me. This is my first mmorpg so I had work to do. Pretty sure I'm above average now, pretty sure their are still lots multiple steps better.

 

I might also try an alternate class with a different style. It may be that you are simply in one that doesn't suit your style. Plus it will help you to figure out strengths and weakness of the other class roles, how to bother them, and give you insight into your role on the team. Plus in under 30, it is hard to stick out as learning.

[georgemattson]

Wow. Thanks so much for all the advice, guys. It's a bit overwhelming and very much appreciated. Definitely a lot of things here that I hadn't thought of. Lots of questions, so I'll break this up into multiple responses.

 

I may not be doing it *exactly* right with Transcendence, so I'm partially asking the rest if this is what you want out of your combat/carnage specs, but I pretty much just pop it every 30 stack so long as I don't have another Sent's trans buff on me.

 

This I definitely have to get used to. Between trying to keep track of where everyone's at, remembering to pop my medpacs at the right time (I'll often pop when I'm at 5% health and surrounded or at 95%, neither of which is helpful at all), and trying to keep track of things coming down off of cooldown, I'm definitely quite challenged in recognizing what buffs/debuffs are active on me. I played an agent to lvl 36, which helped me recognize some of that class' moves, but there's a heck of a lot of other stuff that I don't recognize. Trying to figure out which specific moves to block is problematic, to say the least, and I often suspect I'm interrupting some sniper's filler move and leaving myself or, worse, another team member open to his uber-massive stomp because my interrupts are on CD. This stuff really tempts me to roll other alts and just play those, but then I lose focus on the sentinel. Learn to play my class first, or learn the other classes so I know how to counter? Seems like the latter influences the former quite a bit.

 

The only times I don't pop it at start I'm using "bloodthirst" (forgot the pub name, it's the one on a 5 minute CD that give +15% healing and damage raid wide). I use that at the start of VS, NC or any arena. Basically when speed isn't as much of an issue, I'll use that. Though I am nerfing myself a bit by not using beserk/zen enough.

 

For which healer go after, I had some of the same issues as you describe. I got used to using target of target. Set another DPS as your focus target. It's probably better in a group so everyone knows who's on point before you even start.

 

That's a good idea. About 1/3 of the time that I get into a warzone, I'll ask, "plan?" or suggest something. Maybe instead of that, I'll ask who'll be on point for me to focus target.

 

As far as rotation and that sort of thing, KBN's combat guide is a good reference (scroll down to the rotation notes). In pvp it's never going to work perfectly like it does in a raid but this one paragraph did help me quite a bit.

 

Yeah - been reading, re-reading, and re-reading that thing constantly. Figure I gotta just get on the training dummy for that, or something. There's an awful lot of content there.

 

we'd do entire matches with just getting spawn camped because we bad and had no gear. that's why we have don't have a lot of sympathy for the bolstered noobs. that said, the situation that existed where you could learn as you go doesn't really exist right now since so many have left. prob the best thing to do now since you are a pub is find a healer buddy and just grind warzones and take the lumps. also watch darth nish's old videos about the spec.

 

for the focus window it's ideal used on voice coms with a target caller. since you are pugging put it on the guy who seems to be pretty good and run around assisting him.

 

Yeah - that's the only PvP I ever did in the past. Spawn, die, spawn, die, spawn, run for 10 seconds, die. All without ever seeing an enemy, typically. SWTOR's PvP is definitely a lot more noob-friendly than stuff like Counter Strike or Battlefield. I also found darthnish's channel on Youtube and will check them out. The videos do tend to give me problems, though; not sure if I'm quite at the point yet of figuring out exactly what's being done from one GCD to the next.

 

Also, if you don't currently, start keybinding. Nobody who is any good clicks. It's just too hard to react fast enough. Plus with keybinds you can do multiple things at once, like pop a defensive that is off the GCD (global cooldown) while stunning an enemy, or interrupt someone the very moment they begin casting something, or when you anticipate that they WILL be casting something.

 

Time my friend. Time. Don't be afraid to suck. Just don't quit. One sure fire way to not improve is to quit.

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I definitely won't quit anytime soon (at least until Wasteland 2 finally gets released, and that should just be a break), but my temptation here is to do PvE while I practice the rotations/combos/reactions, and to come back to PvP when I'm a bit more comfortable. Of course, the two are so different as to almost be mutually exclusive, so I rather doubt I will.

 

Keybinds, though... that reminds me of yet another question. I spent literally 2-3 weeks just getting that down to being vaguely usable in a PvP environment. I already had a Razer Black Widow and purchased a Mad Catz MMO 7 mouse, but the keybinds/UI have consistently been a bit challenging. I'll post a screenshot later, but at present I have five of my bars at the bottom with one on the side, and am still having challenges with noticing when things are coming off CD and, more than that, keeping track of buffs. There's not a tremendous number of guides on the subject on the forums or elsewhere, and everything seems to be going in different directions. My underlying philosophy has been to try and group similar skills together (AoE's in one area, CC's in another, etc.) and that seems to be working, but the buffs/debuffs... ugh. Max scale on those and they're still very challenging to notice. Any kind of advice on how to set that all up?

[georgemattson]

The speed boost with an extra 30% for Combat, is ideal for getting around the map. If you need to get to a location quickly as a team, that is the right time to use it. So, the beginning of ACW and NC will let your team get to the nodes to cap faster at the start. When you pick up the huttball, it will help get your ball carrier to the endzone faster or get to the ball at the start faster. If you just capped a door in VS, it will help you get to the next door ahead of the other team. If you are in one place and getting attacked in another, it will allow you to reach your destination in time to defend. Don't forget you have Valorous Call or whatever it's called to build 30 stacks and use the ability at will ever 2 min or so. You also get a full 30 stacks just by healing up before the warzone starts in your spec.

 

Thanks for this - I'll keep those in mind. I never really thought of the speed boost being transcendence. Now that I'm re-reading it on swtor.wikia.com, it totally makes sense why that guy got mad at me for not using it at the start of the match. I kept thinking; this only lasts for a short while, shouldn't I save it? Obviously I was wrong on that.

 

Yes, it makes sense. PvE will teach you rotations and rotations are the enemy in PvP. Knowing the combinations that will give you the maximum damage output is nice, but the chances of you actually getting all the way through without being interrupted are extremely low. In addition to knowing the highest damage possible, you should know what is most likely to actually get through as well as what abilities will continue hitting hard if your initial attack is interruped. I don't know the spec well enough to comment for Combat in general, but there are certain abilities that should be saved for your precision slash window.

 

Yeah - I definitely suspected this. I played three sentinels in the watchman spec and got to a point where I was very comfortable in PvE but it was painfully obvious how much that comfort level did not translate in PvP. Heck, I still find myself running circles around mobs in PvE, just out of habit. I'll keep that in mind, though.

 

Make sure your camera is zoomed way out. Most people leave the camera at the default distance from character and that doesn't allow you to see all around the map. This will probably resolve much of the problem with not seeing the right targets. It also allows you to start attacking one target while still searching for another, but until you're comfortable with playing your character, you won't be able to spend too much time searching the crowd. Focus fire can be your friend in this case. Even if it's the wrong target, if you have 3 people hitting one, you shouldn't have any problem killing them unless there are multiple healers on the other team. If there are, then don't focus so much on doing damage to your target as much as identifying the right target and blow your burst on that target when you can.

 

This reminds me of another question. I do regularly scroll out as much as I can, but I would swear I've seen some youtube videos where the guy seems to be further zoomed out than that. Is there some other setting I might not be noticing, other than the mouse wheel down (or, in my case, [ctrl]+wheel down)?

 

With the way that bolster works at this point, the only gear related problem is augments. If you have augments, then your gear will roughly be on par with everyone else as long as it is statted correctly. Training dummies can help you feel more comfortable controlling your toon and may help you identify what abilities synergize well, but you'll get far more out of actual combat in a warzone. If you haven't joined a guild yet, do it. It doesn't have to be the #1 PvP guild on the server, but guilds will go a long way toward identifying players who can help you get better, they have a population to give you people to play with and make your time in warzones more enjoyable, and they also give you players to duel, which can be valuable in learning how other classes work when you come up against them.

 

I was afraid of that, then. The suckage is all me But yeah; got the guild thing down, although it's a question of trying to get others to join my guild (see the Fight Club thread in my sig). Had an idea for helping people get better at PvP, which turned into, "great idea, why don't you form a guild?" Um... But yeah; our focus is all about the practicing and helping noobs get better. The not-so-secret secret of that is I'm the one I wanted to help the most with that.

[georgemattson]

I would recommend starting with smash (focus spec) until you get very comfortable with your sentinel. Your current spec has a pretty high skill gap but is great for single target burst.

 

Well, yeah... that's part of my problem; I don't like easy, but I also don't like being bad at the hard mode. That's why I picked watchman spec on launch (heard it was the "best," albeit with the highest learning curve). I'm a bit leery about smash since I keep hearing that the "smash monkey" spec is the FotM uber-faceroll. Guess I'd rather suck for however long it takes to get good at combat.

 

Definitely add augments to your gear. The gear difference it makes is huge. If you can't afford the purples start out with the blues and slowly get purples.

 

Yep - got the augments. One thing I have done is almost all the crafting professions, and I've crafted something like 5 or 6 purple might aug 28s and the others blue.

 

As for finding the healer (op healer I'm guessing), just look behind the group for the guy pointed his finger, that's the op healer. When you find him put a marker on him and attack. You can even alt+f him for when he disappears. Just don't leap to him, run over and attack him. Use your leap as a finisher for when he tries to run away.

 

Very good to know on both points. Up until know I'd just been assuming the operative is the healer, along with the sorcerer, but then I have a concealment operative alt that isn't much good at healing so I wasn't sure how accurate that was. I'll have to look up what alt+f does, though?

 

If you see someone telling you that you screwed up (in their own colorful way), don't flame back, kindly ask him in pm what you did wrong and tell him that you are still new. If he replies with something like "YOU WARE A F*CKIN N00BERs", just stop talking to him (don't put him on ignore). Many people will understand that you are new and will explain your mistake and probably apologize for acting like a jerk. Don't give up, keep trying.

 

Yeah, that's a good idea. I've tried on one or two occasions, with no response back, but I'll keep trying. The iggy thing I have to work on, though. I tend to have a low tolerance for rudeness, but then I know iggying someone means I miss directions in ops chat.

 

As for focus target, put it on an enemy healer to start with. You can see when sorcs finish their bubble and when ops come out of stealth. No need to put it on your node guard if he is properly calling out. Besides you can see his health going down in your ops frame.

 

Keep trying, don't give up and before you know it, you will be helping other new players get up to speed.

 

IIRC, doesn't focus target drop when someone goes into stealth?

 

Have you zoomed out your camera? Have you changed the camera max distance from the preferences? If not, I'd recommend trying it. I'm playing with 70% camera max distance I believe, and it helps me to keep a track on what's happening on the battle, since I can see more of the area (so the enemies rarely disappear from my screen, unless they LoS).

 

I have, but it never seems like enough. I'm thinking maybe there's some setting I'm missing. Is the mouse wheel down button the only option?

 

Learn your CC abilities, and use it when you know it will help you or your allies cap a node, or kill an enemy. Otherwise, save them.

 

So I'm reading this to mean I should be a bit more discriminating and not CC an enemy just because it'll let me kill him (or kill him faster), but save them for when I need to kill him to help cap a node?

[georgemattson]

Turn on "target of target". Also, make sure that your target's castbar is LARGE. So you can read the ability they're casting when you have them targeted. Then, learn the abilities of other classes, so you know when it is worth your time to attack them. For example, a powertech with the glowing gold ring underneath him - don't bother using a slow or root. He's immune. You'll need to hard stun him to counter it, or else he'll run all over you.

 

Good to know. Noob question; what is a "hard stun?" I'm assuming there's another type of stun as well ("soft stun?"); what is that?

 

A sorcerer using force bubble shouldn't be touched. Keep them in line of sight though, and resume the pummeling once that bubble drops.

 

Well, damn. I feel like an idjit. Ran into that a couple times the last two nights. Kept flailing away at these guys, blowing my big damage dealers, wondering why nothing was happening. Now I know.

 

It also may help to adjust your nameplate settings, so that you don't lose your mind. Friendly nameplates are not required if you're just learning how to derp dps (forgive me ). Too much clutter. When you get better, or run a healer, friendly nameplates are good.

 

That makes a heck of a lot of sense. I'll do that as soon as I log in again.

 

Melee doesn't benefit from focus target. It's a PvE thing really. When you die in a warzone, you normally respawn far enough away that your focus target gets removed anyway. Just make sure you are attacking healers first, and if they're not marked with a star or reticule, then mark them. Also, if the healer is guarded, make sure you're not the only person attacking him. It's a waste of your time. Either team up, or move onto the guard. Who is the guard? It's the one with the small circle of bluish hexagonal lines underneath him. The one being guarded has the obvious blue shield around him. Also, if you hit the healer, and you see damage text pop up on someone ELSE, that's probably the guard.

 

I thought focus target was what was used when four DPS's all hit the same guy at the same time? Is that not the same? Because whatever that is, it definitely seems to work really well.

 

Also, good to know about the guard; I'll keep an eye out.

 

Here's the nice thing...you are a combat sentinel. You have a move in your skill tree called contemplation that allows you to use introspection and build up your zen that way. You should do this everytime before the match starts so you can pop transcendence if needed.

 

Wow. Just... wow. Another one of those "oh my lord, do I feel dumb" moments. I read about that, used it in PvE a few times, found it really useful, then promptly forgot about it completely when I went into PvP. Thank you for the reminder.

 

When this happens, you should either be popping defensive CDs or you should be cloaking out.

 

Yep. Yet another ability I constantly forget to use; Force Camouflage.

 

Tips like...if you start attacking a group and they shift focus to you...you need to cloak out to lose focus...get away then leap back in. Or pop some defensive cooldowns when you do so if they refocus you, you last.

 

Great idea; I gotta try that. Seems silly that I see other people use it against me pretty often (and it works), yet I don't do it myself.

 

From the scenario you listed, I probably would have done this. Picked out the lowest hp of the 6 imps that were on the enemies team. Leap to them and open up on him. The nice thing about leaping to opponents who are already fighting your friends is that you can hit them for a bit without them noticing you. Usually that is, unless of course they hit a group cc on you. As a combat sentinel though make sure to use your small saber throw. (The one you got at a low level) As a combat sentinel this will root the player and lower healing received by 20%. This makes hitting him easier when he's not mobile.

 

Yeah; that's one I should use more often (Crippling Throw), in that I know in my mind that it applies a healing debuff, but it's one of those I don't see obvious results from. IIRC, though, I don't think it roots. I think the root move is the leg slash.

 

First off, I would recommend always...no...ALWAYS take a stim with you into PvP matches. Think about this...the prototype nano-infused might stim gives you around 169 strength and about 70 power I believe. That right there will give you a nice damage increase. It makes it totally worth the 8k it costs and it lasts 2 hours.

 

Does the stim not drop off after your first death?

 

With regards to the gear, I've been following this thread:

 

Guide: Sentinel Combat/Focus PvP Min/Max for 2.0

 

Is that a good one to follow? Fwiw, I've got the first four pieces he recommends; Challenger's Gloves & Leggings, along with Weaponmaster Headgear and Boots, ripped all the mods out, and put them into orange augmented shells. My first two PvP gear purchases (pursuant to another guide I read somewhere else here) were my relics. Expertise is being bolstered to 2018 in each match.

Edited December 26, 2013 by georgemattson

[Lord_Masty]

Lots of good information in this thread. One more thing I'd like to add for the OP. Don't worry about your placement on the leaderboard at the end of each match. The leaderboard is by default sorted by medals and since you are a combat sentinel and thus incapable of getting any protection or healing medals you will by default never be at the top of the leaderboard when sorted by medals (unless your team is really really bad or all sentinels/gunslingers).

 

When I first started PvPing as a sentinel I thought I was doing something wrong as I was on the bottom half of the scoreboard perpetually unlike with my Jugg where I was at the top consistently...but it turns out it's due to the medal system being imbalanced against sentinels & gunslingers.

 

Recently I've just started focusing on my damage dealt and specifically comparing that against damage taken (hover over your death count to see that). If I dealt more damage than I took, it makes me feel like I contributed positively to the team. That seems to have helped my gameplay a bit...makes me think first before charging headlong into 5 enemies and encourages me to focus fire enemies that my teammates are already attacking.