Mach 5 Massacre - In-Depth Marauder Guide

[Kibaken]

Kiba, you said ataru's proc and rupture's tick are considered force attacks and can be affected by Malice talent.

 

I don't think so. Can you elaborate on the methodology that allows you to make such assesments ?

 

I actually had to do some digging to answer the question before. For the purposes of this - and there's really no other resource - I'm going to quote the sithwarrior.com's breakdown of what is a weapon and what is a Force attack, which can be found, finalized, in post #80, here.

 

I have no knowledge of any other resources that say otherwise, however if you have any feel free to link them. Unfortunately what constitutes a Force attack isn't directly specified in the tool-tips.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kibaken

[Basek]

Abilities considered "Force" abilities:

 

Force Scream

Ataru Form procs

Smash

Savage Kick

Pommel Strike

Cloak of Pain procs

Force Choke

Rupture (ticks)

 

 

The fact that it affects the Ataru procs is reason enough to get Malice. The other cloak abilities are considered filler and, as I said, definitely have their uses in a raid environment, however the filler points come down to personal preference.

 

Thank you for the response, I had no idea Ataru form procs were force attacks that does change a lot. =)

[SubSenix]

Accuracy to 110% > Power > (Accuracy over 110%) > Crit > Surge[/Quote]

 

So how much is this correct?

Read a lot of threads in the last days and all of them say Crit comes second.

 

Im doing pretty good with the Power favoring and all that stuff but i want to be clear about it,probably like everyone else.

There is another "Guide" Thread on this board saying the Rage build is the best with exactly those stats.

 

Well for now i won't change cause i love your guide and it works for me.

Im just curious.

[Kibaken]

So how much is this correct?

Read a lot of threads in the last days and all of them say Crit comes second.

 

Im doing pretty good with the Power favoring and all that stuff but i want to be clear about it,probably like everyone else.

There is another "Guide" Thread on this board saying the Rage build is the best with exactly those stats.

 

Well for now i won't change cause i love your guide and it works for me.

Im just curious.

 

Accuracy to cap is definitely first, followed by Power for Carnage. Whether or not Accuracy over the cap or Crit comes third is up to the math to solve.

 

The main problem I'm seeing is that our best in slot gear, so to speak, has no comparable mods to switch in and out. If we could craft or get mods/enhancements from drops to truly min/max our best stats it would be a different story.

 

Since, to my current knowledge, we can't, chances are we're going to just keep our PvE set as is with little to no switching in and out of mods.

 

 

As for the actual stat weights themselves, there's no hard numbers to go off of because combat logs and parsing aren't currently available. The stat weights I have for Carnage are based around what is currently known/theorized about Accuracy and its caps at this time. Without said hard numbers it's very hard to put precise weights on everything, therefore they're really just pulled from my logic about how the combat for Carnage currently works (since one of our abilities is an instant crit Crit's weight is devalued, etc).

 

Even when stat weights are pulled from parses when they become available, if we don't have the ability to get hard-mode operation tier mods/enhancements elsewhere we're going to be stuck with what's stock, leaving stat weights nearly completely useless at that point.

 

 

As for which spec is better, again, without hard numbers it's hard to really say which is pulling top DPS. Having played Carnage and Rage quite a bit so far in both PvE and PvP I can say personally Rage's burstiness, while fun, makes it feel a lot slower than Carnage for me. That's in no way saying Rage isn't as good, but again, without parses it's hard to say.

 

I'm going to assume, since BioWare has a lot of testing meters that aren't available to us, all three specs are going to be close enough in DPS to the point where it won't matter which spec you go. That's really the type of balance system they're working towards and I will expect to see nothing more than a 1-3% DPS difference between all 3 specs, which to me is negligible to the point of irrelevance.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kibaken

[JCupp]

Accuracy to cap is definitely first, followed by Power for Carnage. Whether or not Accuracy over the cap or Crit comes third is up to the math to solve.

 

The main problem I'm seeing is that our best in slot gear, so to speak, has no comparable mods to switch in and out. If we could craft or get mods/enhancements from drops to truly min/max our best stats it would be a different story.

 

Since, to my current knowledge, we can't, chances are we're going to just keep our PvE set as is with little to no switching in and out of mods.

 

 

As for the actual stat weights themselves, there's no hard numbers to go off of because combat logs and parsing aren't currently available. The stat weights I have for Carnage are based around what is currently known/theorized about Accuracy and its caps at this time. Without said hard numbers it's very hard to put precise weights on everything, therefore they're really just pulled from my logic about how the combat for Carnage currently works (since one of our abilities is an instant crit Crit's weight is devalued, etc).

 

Even when stat weights are pulled from parses when they become available, if we don't have the ability to get hard-mode operation tier mods/enhancements elsewhere we're going to be stuck with what's stock, leaving stat weights nearly completely useless at that point.

 

 

As for which spec is better, again, without hard numbers it's hard to really say which is pulling top DPS. Having played Carnage and Rage quite a bit so far in both PvE and PvP I can say personally Rage's burstiness, while fun, makes it feel a lot slower than Carnage for me. That's in no way saying Rage isn't as good, but again, without parses it's hard to say.

 

I'm going to assume, since BioWare has a lot of testing meters that aren't available to us, all three specs are going to be close enough in DPS to the point where it won't matter which spec you go. That's really the type of balance system they're working towards and I will expect to see nothing more than a 1-3% DPS difference between all 3 specs, which to me is negligible to the point of irrelevance.

 

I am curious if any of this is the same for Carnage PvP.

 

Do you really need 110% accuracy for PvP as well?

 

I played around with my mods from my level 40 furious gear, and replaced most of the crit for power, and I seem too be doing a little less dmg than normal.

[SubSenix]

Ok thank you very much!

[Kibaken]

I am curious if any of this is the same for Carnage PvP.

 

Do you really need 110% accuracy for PvP as well?

 

I played around with my mods from my level 40 furious gear, and replaced most of the crit for power, and I seem too be doing a little less dmg than normal.

 

Accuracy is both WoW's hit and expertise rolled into one. Your specials will always hit, however players have a base 5% defense and any tank character will more than likely be stacking defense so your abilities will be parried/deflected quite often with them.

 

As I said in my lengthy post above, I don't think stat weights will matter all too much because there's only one group of BIS items - the ones from the commendation vendor. If there's no way to get equivalent commendations we'll end up losing out on stats - and a metric **** ton of credits - in order to try to min/max stats with lesser enhancements/mods.

 

IIRC there is quite a bit of Accuracy on the PvP gear set.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kibaken

[Alwaid]

Really good guide! I was looking forward to something like this. I can't wait to see your annihilation guide posted (it's my spec).

 

Also, when you are done with all 3 specs, maybe you should also consider creating a juggernaut guide.

 

Happy new year everyone!

[JCupp]

Accuracy is both WoW's hit and expertise rolled into one. Your specials will always hit, however players have a base 5% defense and any tank character will more than likely be stacking defense so your abilities will be parried/deflected quite often with them.

 

As I said in my lengthy post above, I don't think stat weights will matter all too much because there's only one group of BIS items - the ones from the commendation vendor. If there's no way to get equivalent commendations we'll end up losing out on stats - and a metric **** ton of credits - in order to try to min/max stats with lesser enhancements/mods.

 

IIRC there is quite a bit of Accuracy on the PvP gear set.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[evolart]

Sticky this!!

[Vinadin]

so any info on rage or annihilation?

[Kibaken]

so any info on rage or annihilation?

 

I've played with Rage enough to get a good handle on what's what, however I didn't take advantage of Slicing so I want to wait until my respec cost goes down before trying Annihilation out.

[Korvad]

It's a shame my english mastery is so poor.

 

Because i mained annihilation specialisation in pvp at 50, currently 42 valor rank, and if only i can elaborate fluidly about the richness and usefulness of this spec, i'll gladly do.

 

But for instance, i'll lean to rely on Kiba for the synthesis.

[andysdead]

I'm bumping this again because apparently some people haven't read it yet.

[BlindJuggler]

This is a good guide. Thanks!

[KillLogic]

It's a shame my english mastery is so poor.

 

Because i mained annihilation specialisation in pvp at 50, currently 42 valor rank, and if only i can elaborate fluidly about the richness and usefulness of this spec, i'll gladly do.

 

But for instance, i'll lean to rely on Kiba for the synthesis.

 

Its not so bad. I had an easier time understanding you than many people whose first language is english.

[Kibaken]

Its not so bad. I had an easier time understanding you than many people whose first language is english.

 

hookd on fonix dun gewd 4 mee

[DeathDeathDie]

Curious, do you opportunistically use Pommel Strike and Savage Kick?

 

And if they fix ability delay how much of an effect do you think that would have on your theoretical rotation?

 

Right now I find myself Charging in -> Batterring assault-> Gore-> Rupture -> Force scream if Blood Frenzy -> Pommels trike (if stunned)-> Ravage-> Assault -> Crippling Slash -> Savage kick-> Force Scream.

 

Well I can't even say thats my exact rotation as It is rage dependant and I absolutely never clip force scream if I have blood frenzy.

 

But looking at Pommel Strike and Savage kick if you can satisfy their activation requirements they are actually pretty good damage.

 

Then again with ability delay being what it is it could be a dps loss to try to trigger these things.

[evolart]

bumps

[grandmthethird]

a noob question sorry. but i think this is an ok place to ask instead of making a new thread.

 

how do i respec?

 

ty in advacnce

[shadowcreaper]

you respec by clicking on respec in the spec (k) and pay the bill

 

you cannot though change to Jugg from Marauder though;)

 

One quest i have is this.

 

Rotation for Anh...upto level 20-22 i was loving it, but recently im getting completely overwhelmed by the amount of new abilities im getting and given how many their are and how they seem to be "must have abilities" im worried i wont make it to level 50 without re-rolling as its getting rather crazy atm....made worse by no UI mods which can show your DOTS ect over target head:mad:

 

 

So question is, what abilities are useless and which ones can i ignore in my toolbar.

 

example:Single target rotation useally goes,

Use all the bonus abilities ie Cloak of Pain ect (about 3 of them )

Force charge

Blistering assualt followed by Deadly saber followed by rapture(the one which you cannot move) followed by DOT abilities...

 

Then from there it pretty much Cycle through that with force scream thrown in here and there.....not including all the other abilities ie force choke, disruption the list goes on

 

Need some advice on which abilities i need to focus on.

[Kibaken]

As far as I know the only ones are on Dromund Kaas and in the Imperial Fleet on Vaiken Spacedock, however who you're looking to respec with is the Skill Mentor.

 

He's located, on the fleet, in the Class Trainer quarter in one of the outside alcoves. Your initial respec is free and the price will go up after that; after a week the fee supposedly returns to being free.

 

 

As far as your Annihilation question, it goes the same route as Carnage and Rage in a way in that it really requires all the toys in the tree to be truly effective, so until you hit 40ish and get Annihilate you won't be as powerful as you would be otherwise, which is kind of the entire point of talent trees I suppose. But I digress.

 

Because just applying bleeds and hitting a few times will kill most standard mobs, on the harder ones you'll want to:

 

Charge > Deadly Saber > Battering Assault > Rupture > Annihilate.

 

Your main point, which I will get around to when I sit down to write the guide, revolves around keeping Deadly Saber at 3 stacks, Rupture up, and the Annihilate buff being up as often as possible.

 

You won't be using Scream or Choke very often, Pommel Strike and Savage Kick both don't work in PvE or on bosses - they're more of a quick-dispatch skill we get for normal/weak mobs. Charge -> Savage Kick and then Smash -> Pommel Strike will probably kill two normal mobs or get them damn close.

 

Vicious Slash can and may be weaved in to the rotation, however I'll need to play it a bit to see if it will be worth it. If you have questions about any specific skills let me know.

[bklynfinest]

Thank you very much for this guide. Clears up a lot of questions for me.

 

Any tips on Rage? I just rolled up a Mara and am currently spec'd as rage @ 38.

 

My typical openings for PVE are:

 

Force Charge -> Battering Assault -> Smash -> [Pommel if weak/standard mob] -> Ravage -> Obliterate -> Smash (usually comes off CD soon as you get the crit bonus from Obliterate)

 

My typical openings for PVP are (assuming not a lot of movement/knockbacks etc):

 

Force Charge -> Battering Assault -> Smash -> Crippling Slash -> Ravage -> Choke -> Smash

 

Seems to work pretty well. Although scaled at 38 I'm not doing the crazy crit damage others are reporting from Smash. I'm guessing it's largely due to no high end gear.

 

Rotation seems to work fairly well but TBH I would greatly appreciate some advice/comments. Also, TBH I use Vicious Slash more than I probably should for the sake of efficiency at 2 rage (talented).

[Kibaken]

Thank you very much for this guide. Clears up a lot of questions for me.

 

Any tips on Rage? I just rolled up a Mara and am currently spec'd as rage @ 38.

 

My typical openings for PVE are:

 

Force Charge -> Battering Assault -> Smash -> [Pommel if weak/standard mob] -> Ravage -> Obliterate -> Smash (usually comes off CD soon as you get the crit bonus from Obliterate)

 

My typical openings for PVP are (assuming not a lot of movement/knockbacks etc):

 

Force Charge -> Battering Assault -> Smash -> Crippling Slash -> Ravage -> Choke -> Smash

 

Seems to work pretty well. Although scaled at 38 I'm not doing the crazy crit damage others are reporting from Smash. I'm guessing it's largely due to no high end gear.

 

Rotation seems to work fairly well but TBH I would greatly appreciate some advice/comments. Also, TBH I use Vicious Slash more than I probably should for the sake of efficiency at 2 rage (talented).

 

 

Normally you don't want to double dip into another tree before you get your 31 point talent, however I can say you'll want to use Force Choke before Smash for the 100% damage increase.

[Lozy]

... revolves around keeping Deadly Saber at 3 stacks...

 

Is this actually possible to do? I've never been able to do this without just afking for a second or two, which feels wrong. Normally once I get it stacked to three there is about 7 or 8 seconds left on the cd, as the ability is off the gcd and normally gets consumed right away.