How are Flashfires/Stings not Overwhelmingly OP?

[DarthVindictus]

its quite amusing that no one mentions the defensive advatages a strike fighter has over a scout. sure the can not equip the distorsion field and thus have 15% less base evasion chance. but no one mentioned the tremendous amounts of dmg strikes can soak up with charged plating(shield)+structural support(crew)+hydro spammer while still beeing only 15% evasion behind...

 

I took one look at charged plating, another look at all the different armor ignoring upgrades and weapons, and said HELL NO.

[Luckyluzi]

i use charge plating a lot on my pike and can confirm that armorpen goes through the damage reduction, best example, one hit from a slug railgun brings me down to orange hull with 94% damage reduction

 

burst lasers, concussion missiles, proton torpedos, heavy lasers, slug railgun... all with 100% armorpen kills you very quick

Edited December 18, 2013 by Luckyluzi

[Zoom_VI]

i use charge plating a lot on my pike and can confirm that armorpen goes through the damage reduction, best example, one hit from a slug railgun brings me down to orange hull with 94% damage reduction

 

burst lasers, concussion missiles, proton torpedos, heavy lasers, slug railgun... all with 100% armorpen kills you very quick

 

And only one of those is available to a Flashfire, but three of those are available to strikes

[Phantasym]

They tend to have the same armaments/range, only the scout is faster and more maneuverable, and the strike fighter can take more hits, but will get hit more often because of a lack of evade and slower maneuvering.

 

There is no real strength to play to. Are you going to claim to use proton torpedos for max range as a solution? A scout boosting towards you will fly right by you before you can lock on, nailing you with blasters all the way, that's if they're feeling gutsy, otherwise they can just outrun you and you will never lock on.

 

90% of the Complaints I am seeing are from you, who's favorite ship is the gunship, which I would argue is the natural enemy of the scout, the thing they have the easiest time killing. Earlier you complained you couldn't kill turrets as well, someone suggested using proton torpedoes and now you say but a scout will kill you if you try to lock them with those. They are not for killing scouts especially not in a 1v1 fight, if you lock a scout 10km off while they are dogfighting other people you can get hits because their lateral movement isn't that big, if they are coming at you of course its useless. They let a strike take out turrets and be in better shape then a scout 0 damage to shields or hull, one of your complaints earlier.

 

Strikes can carry the same close range weapons a scout can and longer range weapons, 7 and 10km missiles, or heavy lasers for 7km, the farther you are away the less lateral movement a target has so in anything other then a dog fight rate of fire is not as important, this is what allows gunships to hit people those ships moving fast even boosting move little side to side at 15km compared to the same movement at 3km where it is a flash across your screen.

 

The strike fighter I play is much much more survivable than either of my scouts. I have double the shields and nearly double the hull I can take damage to my hull even with bypass and still be alive, in fact even repair it and boost my shields and keep fighting like nothing happened. I can have 2 types of lasers or 2 types of missiles, my missile boat has clusters for dogfighting and protons for taking out long range targets and turrets. My laser strike has ion for taking out shields and draining energy and such and then quads or burst or light for finishing people off. On my missile boat I sometimes will lock a cluster missile they hit barrel roll and are now about 8-9km out with their missile avoidance used... perfect range for the real hit from a proton torpedo.

 

With its shield and hull and not needing to constantly fly in either f1 or f3 mode my strike fighter is exceptionally good at holding objectives I can circle a turret in the same type of erratic pattern I would in a scout and survive a lot longer, in fact I can hold off several people at once trying to cap an objective until help gets there.

 

You seem to be fixating on one scenario head on attacks, if you are coming head on boosting at each other sure that extra 2k range is a very short time, but why in the world would you boost towards a turret you already have in range, you boost to get into range you don't boost once you are in range unless you need to run away. Strike fighters have the advantage of range, and defense and versatility to have enough weapons to be able to have different ones for different roles.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Phantasym

[Telos]

Who cares about turrets? Even scouts can solo three turrets with 0 hull damage. The ability to use up your entire secondary weapons system for that (or half of your picks) for turrets is silly. Not that protons are useless, but the turret thing pretty much is. In a gunship I can eat all three in less than ten seconds, as a strike fighter it's longer and even assuming torps.

 

 

I think I'm confused at a different level by this:

 

When I'm on my strike fighter, I have a WHOLE BUTTON devoted to "switch gun types". The only way this really seems useful is if I'm running ion cannons and something else. A reasonable set of choices- like for instance, longer range lasers and shorter range burst lasers- doesn't seem to be available. I certainly don't press this button with the same delight as when I press "rapid fire death mode" as a Flashfire. I don't understand why they can put an offensive button there and a strike fighter cannot, nor do I understand why there isn't more threat to the strike fighter shots baseline, given how hard it is to keep a scout onscreen.

 

 

 

 

I might buy that about all FIVE ships. I definitely suspect that gunships are meant to be hunted by infiltrators- the fact that a gunship will get splatted by the dogfighting ships isn't really a weakness when you remember that the actual goal of the game is satellites thus far, and than if the scout chases the gunship and the gunship runs, either the scout chases (maybe getting a generally useless kill) or the scout turns back- either way 20 seconds of scout time is traded for 30 seconds of gunship time, max, and that's the BEST possible scenario.

 

But you'll note that while babies are crying about the gunship in the QQ thread over there, and different babies are crying about the Flashfire over here, the commonality is that no one is QQing about Strike Fighters. I don't think they are trash, but people should be QQing about their ability to swap guns and missiles but those abilities are so niche it doesn't matter. If they had a gun that did double damage to scouts but half damage to everyone else, I bet you'd hear the appropriate amount of waaaah needed to mark a ship as solid ("but they just switch it outtttttt they have NO DOWNSIDES QQQQQQ").

 

 

Right now, the best at damage seems to be the scout, who also seem to be the best at maneuvering, and they have a nigh invulnerability bubble for a few seconds, plus they can run in and out of range. I'm not saying that kit is too good, but I am saying that a strike fighter's power of "more shields" seems to be like as if a mouse had a second heart and lung set versus a cat- that's not a power, that's the ability to entertain the predator a bit longer as you die.

 

DarthWhinevictus was crying that scouts can make runs on turrets, without fear of death. I was pointing out that he can as well in his strike fighter. then he changed the subject.

 

flashfire/sting is not op. people that think they are op are just terrible pilots.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

plating is no armor its a shiled modifcation and thus not affected...

 

actually charged plating could possibly be even worse against heavies as 50% of all damage bleeds through the shields by default. Heavies can get 20% shield penetration so in theory using charged platting against heavies would allow 70% of the damage to bypass shields entirely. Factor in that heavies can nullify any damage reduction strikers get by default stats + companion passives and that shield component could possibly be the worse option to have when being targeted by heavy blasters.

 

Now again this is all in theory and in practice you'll be factoring in tracking penalties, range etc. but I'm just pointing out how on paper these could work out.

 

DarthWhinevictus was crying that scouts can make runs on turrets, without fear of death. I was pointing out that he can as well in his strike fighter. then he changed the subject.

 

flashfire/sting is not op. people that think they are op are just terrible pilots.

 

If I may I think the point is that scouts SHOULDN'T be able to make runs on turrets without a heavy armored ship like a striker drawing fire. If you try making an attack run on turrets without max evasion + distortion shield odds are you'll get blown out of the sky unless the turrets are distracted (or at the very least suffer critical levels of damage). That's the point, scouts are artificially able to use evasion + evasion boosting abilities to attack targets that their base stats would indicate they shouldn't be able to survive against.

 

Their base stats clearly indicate they weren't designed to be multirole fighters capable of attacking any and all targets but rather were designed to exclusively be dogfighters. Strikers on the other hand were clearly designed to be the multirole starfighters of the game equally capable of attacking enemy starfighters as they are at attacking things like turrets.

 

Just because strikers can attack turrets too doesn't mean it's balanced that scouts can do this as well. It would be like giving the striker an ability that allows them to 3 shot enemies at 15k meters for a few seconds. Sure gunships can do it better but that doesn't mean it would be balanced allowing strikers to perform outside of what their base stats clearly intend their attack ranges to be.

[LeonBraun]

I have to say I'm shaking my head at the absurdity of this thread suggesting that Scouts are anywhere near OP.

 

Scouts have a role in game and are certainly capable of performing it in the right pilots hands. However, Scouts will not (read: WIll NOT) out kill a Strike Fighter or Gunship of any skill. Nor should they be trying to; Scouts trying to top kill charts will only be watching their team lose as that is not their primary role.

 

Scouts excel at clearing and capturing satellites. They can also burst kill stationary or cherry picking ships. That's what they do. But once their CDs are on cool down, they fall to anything quick, including other Scouts. More than a handful of kills per match by a Scout should not be happening, and if if does, you'll want to be noting their lack of achieving objectives.

 

^ Thought I'd quote a post from another thread suggesting something similar. Also, keep in mind scouts are the easiest fighters to kill in game, even by other scouts. They are not anywhere near OP. They have a role as other ships do.

[Yorumi]

I tried it briefly and I found it to be something that was very situational. It has the lowest ROF and most brutal tracking penalty of all striker blasters so it's really only effective against enemy starfighters when you can get an enemy dead center in your sights. If you are forced to engage an enemy that won't stay in the center of your firing arc you'll need quads or rapids, especially if it's a scout running an evasion build.

 

The accuracy on them actually isn't so bad. While they do have a worse tracking penalty, at max range heavies have more accuracy than quads up to the limit of the heavy's firing arc where it's exactly equal. At med range the even point is 10 degrees, and for anything beyond 10 degrees heavy has 0.5% per degree less accuracy than a quad. I think close range is moot since no one can hit anything.

 

There's also the question of how prominent armor will be, the tier 4 upgrade does reduce that tracking penalty, though you'd have to give up armor piercing to get it. If people decide to not use armor in favor of evasion then that could end up being the better upgrade.

 

Damage is harder to compare, quads are a little more dps, but heavy has access to shield and armor piercing.

[LeonBraun]

Really the only reason they're so good is because the evasion stat is so out of place in this game type. In addition to speed and turn rates which give pilots the ability to manually be hard to hit they have evasion that grants them RNG dodges just in case they aren't doing a good enough job manually evading fire. They can boost evasion to passively apply a 40% accuracy penalty to an enemy (so a weapon with 100% accuracy when fired from the dead center of the firing arc automatically only has a 60% chance to hit). Combined with blaster tracking penalties this can cause an enemy's lasers to rapidly drop to 50% chance or less accuracy and that's before any defensive abilities are used. Evasion quite simply offsets any weakness in having paper thin armor by artificially increasing their ability to absorb damage through RNG dodges.

 

That's also why scouts, despite having paper thin armor, are better at taking out turrets than strike fighters. Scouts have abilities that buff evasion to the point of being literally unkillable for 3-6 seconds so they can make an attack run and escape with little/no damage whereas a striker will take a beating unless they just sit firing torpedoes (and asking to be shot down by defending fighters)

 

Simple solution: eliminate evasion entirely or if it's there to compensate for poor hitbox design (as I've heard), eliminate components, abilities, companion buffs that increase evasion beyond the ship's base stats. Good pilots that know how to manually take evasive action will survive, however the pilots that fly sloppy and need RNG dodges to stay alive will get ripped to shreds by other scouts and strikers.

 

Their firepower isn't the problem, the problem is that they have incredible firepower + evasion RNG dodges that make them disproportionately hard to shoot down. Remove evasion RNG dodges and the offensive firepower won't be a big deal because their paper thin armor will become a genuine weakness as intended.

 

This is ridiculous. Scouts are the easiest fighters to take out, bar none.

[LeonBraun]

Three ships total.

Two are overpowered according to him.

Guess the one he flies is perfectly balanced.

 

^ This. Quoted for truth.

[LeonBraun]

and they'll still be OP being that maneuverable with that much firepower.

 

The default scout ships are not a problem. They're offensively weak. They have just as much evasion as the Flashfire/Sting, they just don't have cluster missiles and quad lasers.

 

Take away evade, and they will still be OP, because taking away evasion also affects the default scouts, and gunships. A gunship can get 31% passive evade, and can go into over 100% evade for 3-6 seconds as well.

 

Evade is not the problem with flashfires/stings. Giving the fastest ship the best blasters and fast lockon missiles is.

 

Note the reason i don't complain about strike fighters is even though they have the same firepower as a flashfire/sting, you CAN lose them, you can outmaneuver them, I can get distance on them, with a lot of dampening, if I fly off to where no other ships on their side are, they lose track of me, I can then turn around and rail shot them. They don't have evade, but I still don't dare try to fight them laser to laser. They WILL win that way. That's not using the strengths of each ship. The evade is a moot point. You can use the advantages of your ship against a strike fighter, either gaining distance on them on a GS, or being able to fly circles around them and avoid a lot of their laser fire on a scout, whittling them down even if your own attacks are weak.

 

It's checks and balances between the ships.

 

There is no check or balance against a flashfire or sting. Neither a gunship nor a strike fighter is particularly effective against them, evade or no.

 

Have to say you are a pretty terrible pilot if this is actually true. They have 3 seconds worth of CD, then are paper thin. Scouts are by far the easiest ship in game to take out on any fighter, including other scout fighters.

[Zoom_VI]

If I may I think the point is that scouts SHOULDN'T be able to make runs on turrets without a heavy armored ship like a striker drawing fire. If you try making an attack run on turrets without max evasion + distortion shield odds are you'll get blown out of the sky unless the turrets are distracted (or at the very least suffer critical levels of damage). That's the point, scouts are artificially able to use evasion + evasion boosting abilities to attack targets that their base stats would indicate they shouldn't be able to survive against.

 

No heck no. Every single class of ship should be capable of busting turrets in a decently reasonable manner. Why? Because turrets are objectives, making it so scouts have to have help from a strike would be similar to making so that you can only score the huttball if the huttball is being carried by X class.

 

This is critical for pugging. Under your system if im on my scout and I realize that a node must absolutely be capped to win, but since I am on a Scout I am helpless to do this and must be entirely dependent on a PuG strike to wake and realize what he needs to be doing.

 

All objectives should be reasonably achievable for any class, but it should cost the attacker something. A strike on a attack run gets their front shield arc beaten up, a distortion field scout loses their best DcD.

[LeonBraun]

Have to say I'm pretty baffled by this thread. What exactly are people asking for here? For Scouts not to be able to do any damage at all? Or not to be able to down other fighters?

 

Really, I'm stumped. They certainly aren't OP.

Edited December 18, 2013 by LeonBraun

[Telos]

 

Their base stats clearly indicate they weren't designed to be multirole fighters capable of attacking any and all targets but rather were designed to exclusively be dogfighters.

 

says who?

 

strikers can destroy turrets with an absolute zero risk of taking a single point of damage from said turret. if you are taking damage from a turret you are trying to kill, you are not flying your strike fighter correctly and deserve every bad experience you have in it.

 

again, the problem is with the pilots and the map. you feel you should be as mobile as a scout, while at the same time having more hp and better weapons. and you are mad because the current maps don't favor strike fighters as much as they do scouts and gunships. if the maps were larger, strike fighters would be much more dominant in the spaces between capture points and scouts would be less useful, since their booster would maybe get them from one cap point to another and not the entire other side of the map.

 

you are mad at scouts for the sole fact that they are more effective in the 2 current domination maps. it isn't a balance issue. not even slightly.

[Zoom_VI]

Have to say I'm pretty baffled by this thread. What exactly are people asking for here? For Scouts not to be able to do any damage at all? Or not to be able to down other fighters?

 

Really, I'm stumped. They certainly aren't OP.

 

90% of the QQ would never have happened if BW had listed FF and ND as interceptors rather than scouts. Or better have the scout category only contain the Novadrive and make a fourth category called "interceptor" and have the Ocula and Sting in that category.

 

Too many people read "scout class" and think "weak, light ship that runs away from everything," and then look at "strike fighter" and think "uber leet superiority fighter"

 

In function its more like

Novadrive = Scout

Flashfire = superiority fighter (modern)/interceptor (WW2)

Star Guard = multirole (modern)/Heavy fighter (WW2)*

Pike = BVR** fighter (modern)/fighter-bomber (WW2)

Gunship = armed sputnik

 

*SG resembles the Heavy fighter classification far more than any modern one, but multirole is most appropriate.

** Obviously there is no real BVR in GSF, but the design philosophy is same.

[DarthVindictus]

90% of the Complaints I am seeing are from you, who's favorite ship is the gunship, which I would argue is the natural enemy of the scout, the thing they have the easiest time killing. Earlier you complained you couldn't kill turrets as well, someone suggested using proton torpedoes and now you say but a scout will kill you if you try to lock them with those. They are not for killing scouts especially not in a 1v1 fight, if you lock a scout 10km off while they are dogfighting other people you can get hits because their lateral movement isn't that big, if they are coming at you of course its useless. They let a strike take out turrets and be in better shape then a scout 0 damage to shields or hull, one of your complaints earlier.

 

Strikes can carry the same close range weapons a scout can and longer range weapons, 7 and 10km missiles, or heavy lasers for 7km, the farther you are away the less lateral movement a target has so in anything other then a dog fight rate of fire is not as important, this is what allows gunships to hit people those ships moving fast even boosting move little side to side at 15km compared to the same movement at 3km where it is a flash across your screen.

 

The strike fighter I play is much much more survivable than either of my scouts. I have double the shields and nearly double the hull I can take damage to my hull even with bypass and still be alive, in fact even repair it and boost my shields and keep fighting like nothing happened. I can have 2 types of lasers or 2 types of missiles, my missile boat has clusters for dogfighting and protons for taking out long range targets and turrets. My laser strike has ion for taking out shields and draining energy and such and then quads or burst or light for finishing people off. On my missile boat I sometimes will lock a cluster missile they hit barrel roll and are now about 8-9km out with their missile avoidance used... perfect range for the real hit from a proton torpedo.

 

With its shield and hull and not needing to constantly fly in either f1 or f3 mode my strike fighter is exceptionally good at holding objectives I can circle a turret in the same type of erratic pattern I would in a scout and survive a lot longer, in fact I can hold off several people at once trying to cap an objective until help gets there.

 

You seem to be fixating on one scenario head on attacks, if you are coming head on boosting at each other sure that extra 2k range is a very short time, but why in the world would you boost towards a turret you already have in range, you boost to get into range you don't boost once you are in range unless you need to run away. Strike fighters have the advantage of range, and defense and versatility to have enough weapons to be able to have different ones for different roles.

 

huh? I never complained about turrets. The only complaint I have about turrets is people exploiting them, hiding their ship in the turret model, allowing them to fire out but giving them a good shield against incoming damage.

 

Also I'm not focusing on head on attacks, because it very rarely happens with scouts. They will always lead you into a turning war. I was just saying it would be ridiculous to consider using proton torpedoes from max range against scouts as being "playing to a strike fighter's strengths" because of the ridiculously long lock on time. Proton torpedos only work against comatose pilots.

Edited December 18, 2013 by DarthVindictus

[Zoom_VI]

huh? I never complained about turrets. The only complaint I have about turrets is people exploiting them, hiding their ship in the turret model, allowing them to fire out but giving them a good shield against incoming damage.

 

No but your post history uses that same pattern.

Started off that the base 41% evasion was insane, until it was pointed out that evasion does not work at all like defense rating. So you dropped it.

 

So then you moved on to claiming that Flashfires had superior firepower, until the number of people pointing out that the strike had at worst equal firepower but also had much heavier options to supplement (2x primaries+secondary > 1 primary+1 secondary) So you dropped that.

 

Now we have moved on to the Flashfire is labeled under "scout" and therefore ought to suck compared to strike fighters because yaknow strikes have "fighter" in their name.

 

Also I'm not focusing on head on attacks, because it very rarely happens with scouts. They will always lead you into a turning war. I was just saying it would be ridiculous to consider using proton torpedoes from max range against scouts as being "playing to a strike fighter's strengths" because of the ridiculously long lock on time. Proton torpedos only work against comatose pilots.

 

ofc a scout will try to get into a turning war he isn't going to pursue a head-to-head that he knows he will lose. Just like a gunship will always try to escape close quarters.

 

And at 10km getting that lock isn't hard at all, I have seen it done several times. Why? Because 10km out tracking a target's movement isn't hard at all, plus pressing "r" does not work for missile locks so the target has no quick way to figure which way the lock is coming from and can only zig-zag at random. All the Pike has to do is keep attempting locks because it will eventually succeed and sooner rather than later.

 

I don't even think this is about Strikes V Flashfire anyway. You have already declared that you play gunship, I think your using Strikes as a front to get scouts nerfed since scouts are the only real threat to gunships, and you know you will get no sympathy posting for nerfs from a gunship PoV.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[DarthVindictus]

No but your post history uses that same pattern.

Started off that the base 41% evasion was insane, until it was pointed out that evasion does not work at all like defense rating. So you dropped it.

 

So then you moved on to claiming that Flashfires had superior firepower, until the number of people pointing out that the strike had at worst equal firepower but also had much heavier options to supplement (2x primaries+secondary > 1 primary+1 secondary) So you dropped that.

 

Now we have moved on to the Flashfire is labeled under "scout" and therefore ought to suck compared to strike fighters because yaknow strikes have "fighter" in their name.

 

 

 

ofc a scout will try to get into a turning war he isn't going to pursue a head-to-head that he knows he will lose. Just like a gunship will always try to escape close quarters.

 

And at 10km getting that lock isn't hard at all, I have seen it done several times. Why? Because 10km out tracking a target's movement isn't hard at all, plus pressing "r" does not work for missile locks so the target has no quick way to figure which way the lock is coming from and can only zig-zag at random. All the Pike has to do is keep attempting locks because it will eventually succeed and sooner rather than later.

 

I don't even think this is about Strikes V Flashfire anyway. You have already declared that you play gunship, I think your using Strikes as a front to get scouts nerfed since scouts are the only real threat to gunships, and you know you will get no sympathy posting for nerfs from a gunship PoV.

 

Got me confused with someone else m8. My entire point was that flashfires are too strong offensively.

 

Most strikers use quads and clusters, just like flashfires.

 

I might take you more seriously if you weren't such a rabid fanboy of the ship. It's hard to take you seriously when your avatar and signature are flashfire, so of course you think they're balanced.

 

You say ridiculous things like "rocket pods do more damage". "Novadrives are more maneuverable" and time and time again I point out that you're wrong (in this case a cluster does 650 damage, a rocket pod does 413).

 

Yes, strikers can use the same armaments/firepower, but I'm okay with that, because they are space superiority fighters, its their job, and they're plenty threat to me it's just I CAN get away from them. They're not as maneuverable as scouts and have crappier sensors.

Edited December 19, 2013 by DarthVindictus

[Zoom_VI]

Got me confused with someone else m8. My entire point was that flashfires are too strong offensively.

 

Really? The first few pages are mostly about evasion. The most recent pages generally focus on "but its labeled a scout therefore it should suck" mixed in among some actual productive strike fighter theorycraft.

 

And I am becoming more and more convinced of the last paragraph in my previous post.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[DarthVindictus]

Really? The first few pages are mostly about evasion. The most recent pages generally focus on "but its labeled a scout therefore it should suck" mixed in among some actual productive strike fighter theorycraft.

 

And I am becoming more and more convinced of the last paragraph in my previous post.

 

Nah that was someone else, claiming that if they didn't have evasion they'd be balanced, but I still think they're too strong offensively. I count their speed and maneuverability as a source of offensive strength.

[Svarthrafn]

Just because most strike pilots run quads and clusters doesn't mean that is the best way to run them. The optimal loadout for burning down strikes and gunships is not the same for popping scouts.

 

People just want a cookie cutter build that will let them pwn everything, not stopping for a moment to think that maybe the strike has the ability to swap weapons on the fly for a reason.

[Zoom_VI]

Nah that was someone else, claiming that if they didn't have evasion they'd be balanced, but I still think they're too strong offensively. I count their speed and maneuverability as a source of offensive strength.

 

Oh that's right, the only other posters agreeing with you cited distortion field and evasion but you shot that down because gunships also have that.

 

your entire pov can be stated no better than this

Leave the superior firepower to the air superiority fighters. That's their job. Scouts are for.. scouting, and capturing mission objectives.

 

Which basically translates to "Flashfires should be only good for guarding nodes, the real PvP should be left to the other classes like mine."

 

Also Strike fighter =/= superiority fighters.

By the definition of a Superiority fighter that would be ship devoted to establishing air dominance over enemy air forces by superior agility and speed. In other words a pure dogfighter purpose built for dogfighting alone. That sounds a lot more like a Flash than a strike. Strikes are multirole/Heavy fighter.

[DarthVindictus]

All I'm seeing is "please don't nerf my favorite ship, I want to have my cake and eat it too"

 

Maybe I should start asking for a gunship that has a scout's mobility eh? Would you have a problem with that?

[Zoom_VI]

All I'm seeing is "please don't nerf my favorite ship, I want to have my cake and eat it too"

 

Maybe I should start asking for a gunship that has a scout's mobility eh? Would you have a problem with that?

All I'm seeing is "Please nerf the counter to my ship, nothing should be able to kill me"

 

Maybe I should start asking for my Flashfire to have a gunship's hull HP and shields. At least then I won't have my entire shield arc vaporized along with half my hp just because somebody got a glancing hit.

[DarthVindictus]

All I'm seeing is "Please nerf the counter to my ship, nothing should be able to kill me"

 

Maybe I should start asking for my Flashfire to have a gunship's hull HP and shields. At least then I won't have my entire shield arc vaporized along with half my hp just because somebody got a glancing hit.

 

This isn't rock paper scissors, for the last time, ships are not meant to be hard counters to each other.