olcraft Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Despite so much whining about premades(though mostly by UncleSam), premades are not the real problem. Why do we make premades in the first place? Not only we can avoid playing with idiots or jerks, we have a better fighting chance against the other team by having a healer and a tank in our premades. Nobody wants to die within 10 seconds 10 times or 20 times while our enemies die once or twice in a 15 mins long match. Such catastrophic defeats are mostly due to faction imbalances or lack of healers and tanks in a team. If devs can make reg pvp matchmaking system work like the solo ranked matchmaking system(or at least not randomly assigning healers and tanks to each team), we won't have to rely on forming up a group with others to enjoy fair pvp experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncelSam Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Despite so much whining about premades(though mostly by UncleSam), premades are not the real problem. Why do we make premades in the first place? Not only we can avoid playing with idiots or jerks, we have a better fighting chance against the other team by having a healer and a tank in our premades. Nobody wants to die within 10 seconds 10 times or 20 times while our enemies die once or twice in a 15 mins long match. Such catastrophic defeats are mostly due to faction imbalances or lack of healers and tanks in a team. If devs can make reg pvp matchmaking system work like the solo ranked matchmaking system(or at least not randomly assigning healers and tanks to each team), we won't have to rely on forming up a group with others to enjoy fair pvp experiences. This is what I suggested last year in a post. My suggestion was to make all to premades, like you suggest. That all gets pre-made team with healers, tanks and dps so its balanced. But that suggestion was rejected by the premade community. Prolly since its means they cant keep on stomping PUGs. So your suggestion is old and has already been rejected by the premade runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helloder Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 This is what I suggested last year in a post. My suggestion was to make all to premades, like you suggest. That all gets pre-made team with healers, tanks and dps so its balanced. But that suggestion was rejected by the premade community. Prolly since its means they cant keep on stomping PUGs. So your suggestion is old and has already been rejected by the premade runners. Premade conspiracy theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feztonio Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 how about the 4-man deathmatches with random solo que? i have gotten enemy groups made of 3 healers / 1 melee dps. and one time saw 3 tanks / 1 heals. not even on bizarro earth does this make sense. the rando-que needs to be addressed. ideally it would go cross-server but some semi-sense of intellegence would be swell. after all the random raid que doesn't drop in 5 heals and 3 tanks right? it knows enough to go 2/2/4 so why can't the pvp que? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helloder Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 how about the 4-man deathmatches with random solo que? i have gotten enemy groups made of 3 healers / 1 melee dps. and one time saw 3 tanks / 1 heals. not even on bizarro earth does this make sense. the rando-que needs to be addressed. ideally it would go cross-server but some semi-sense of intellegence would be swell. after all the random raid que doesn't drop in 5 heals and 3 tanks right? it knows enough to go 2/2/4 so why can't the pvp que? Had it like 30 mins ago, after first round I just took off my gear and start to play Xanta in the middle of Corellias arena. They killed my char ofc, but not his #swag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olcraft Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 This is what I suggested last year in a post. My suggestion was to make all to premades, like you suggest. That all gets pre-made team with healers, tanks and dps so its balanced. But that suggestion was rejected by the premade community. Prolly since its means they cant keep on stomping PUGs. So your suggestion is old and has already been rejected by the premade runners. So you've been playing this game for a while. You know that premades system aren't gonna change. Why bother necroing old premades qq threads all of a sudden? This is a MMO. People have rights to queue in groups. Just because your team is on a losing streak doesn't mean premades shouldn't be allowed to queue. This game has more than enough idiots and douchebags already. I'd rather not queue with them if possible. Another thing that attracts premades to reg pvp is that you have to farm reg pvp wins to finish both weeklies and dailies. You can't finish those by playing ranked matches only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidsyrup Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 This is a MMO. People have rights to queue in groups. Just because your team is on a losing streak doesn't mean premades shouldn't be allowed to queue. This game has more than enough idiots and douchebags already. I'd rather not queue with them if possible. Another thing that attracts premades to reg pvp is that you have to farm reg pvp wins to finish both weeklies and dailies. You can't finish those by playing ranked matches only. Amen sistah! But seriously though, I almost don't PuG anymore because it's filled with idiots. I usually wait until at least 1 Friend is on. This is an MMO, it's not BioWare's fault you lack the capacity to make friends. Shut ya yapper Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorClown Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 do you really need to make new thread for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 do you really need to make new thread for this? Apparently yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) do you really need to make new thread for this? Apparently 100 existing threads about premades weren't enough Edited December 14, 2013 by Sangrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanas Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) Despite so much whining about premades(though mostly by UncleSam), premades are not the real problem. Why do we make premades in the first place? Not only we can avoid playing with idiots or jerks, we have a better fighting chance against the other team by having a healer and a tank in our premades. Nobody wants to die within 10 seconds 10 times or 20 times while our enemies die once or twice in a 15 mins long match. Such catastrophic defeats are mostly due to faction imbalances or lack of healers and tanks in a team. If devs can make reg pvp matchmaking system work like the solo ranked matchmaking system(or at least not randomly assigning healers and tanks to each team), we won't have to rely on forming up a group with others to enjoy fair pvp experiences. Aside for roles they will also need to balance skill... 4 people in a premade are usually good players... Pugs are... Well the majority are the type that run (3 of them) to grab pylon and then all 3 leave it. The best solution would be to balance premades. If 1 team has a 4 man premade then the other team must have a 4 man premade and then add pugs. Having the ability to pick 3 other people that you KNOW are not imbeciles is a huge advantage and the most important one. Edited December 14, 2013 by Xanas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeHovah Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 They really aren't that bad tbh... Just mark the opposing team's healer and go pew pew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidsyrup Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 They really aren't that bad tbh... Just mark the opposing team's healer and go pew pew! Lol whenever I PuG I node guard because I'm the only person I trust to call inc, and I click on teammates and view Target of Target to mark the healer. They never mark them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncelSam Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 So you've been playing this game for a while. You know that premades system aren't gonna change. Why bother necroing old premades qq threads all of a sudden? This is a MMO. People have rights to queue in groups. Just because your team is on a losing streak doesn't mean premades shouldn't be allowed to queue. This game has more than enough idiots and douchebags already. I'd rather not queue with them if possible. Another thing that attracts premades to reg pvp is that you have to farm reg pvp wins to finish both weeklies and dailies. You can't finish those by playing ranked matches only. Im advocating a solution where u get tó Q with your Group far away from "idiots" (like u called the PUGs). You Q with your Group vs other Groups. The "idiots" /PUG goes in a Q with other "idiots"/PUG. No one is taking away your right to Q with your Group and friends. This is the very solution so you dont have to meet "idiots". Do-you-understand-me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanimir Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 "Why do we make premades in the first place?" Because you do not enjoy fair competition, which you basically said with your post. Thanks for clarifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Any honestly skilled player would want their premade to face another premade- anyone arguing against it just wants to roflstomp players. And yeah, everyone left the game's PVP- because it's not fun never having a shot at winning, and while you may hate casuals- they made up 90% of the playerbase, and making the game not for them was a bad idea. It might be too late now since premades have alienated everyone- but it might be worth a try what with the space xpac to try to make the game not suck as much. Ultimately? Fact is- premade vs pug has never, and will never be a good match up. Then again, making good decisions for pvp in this game isn't what BW does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) If you separate the queues, both sides of this argument will end up with drastically increased wait times, I for one will not be happy with that and it would probably kill the game for me. Generally speaking, I pug exclusively now, other than playing with my brother when he is online, personally I don't class that as a premade in the sense that the whiners are crying about. Yes we both know what we are doing and in a pug team, 2 people who know how to play can be a big step forward. Separate the queues and the pug queue will be utterly awful anyway. Who on the name of god wants to see 16 duellists all running around like headless chickens. I can guarantee most pugs frustration would go through the roof, if they were no longer carried once in a while by small premades. Edited December 15, 2013 by ThorgrimLutgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) This is a MMO. People have rights to queue in groups. Just because your team is on a losing streak doesn't mean premades shouldn't be allowed to queue. And no one says you can't. BUT what many of us is saying IS that you should Q against others with that same intention. The Idea that a PUG isn't MMO is just small minded and narrow sighted. The challenge of playing in a PUG or in a Premade game, should be as different as having a cup of tea or Coffey. BUT the objective tho is almost always the same; playing together with other live players against other live players. So... Really... Give this argument a rest now will ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited December 15, 2013 by t-darko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seireeni Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) I've thought about this quite a bit lately, and come to the conclusion that you're right, premades aren't the problem. The premade whining is just one way of whining about the lack of matchmaking. If the premade isn't that much better than the pugs, you probably have no problem with the premade being there with the pugs. When the premade is dominating the match, this usually isn't because of some superior voice-comm coordination. It's simply because they have (i.e.) 4 good and skilled players and you don't. This sometimes happens even without any premades, since there's no matchmaking. I've seen pugs vs. pugs matches where one side three-caps and manages to keep all 3 nodes the whole match. This just isn't as likely to happen as it is when 4 skilled players queue together. If some sort of "premades only face premades"-system was implemented, the people who are against premades would cheer, but I personally wouldn't like it for reasons A. Since the amount of premades isn't that big (especially at offpeak hours), the queues would be rather long for people who want to play with their friends and B. This would discourage the "bad" and "medicore" people from grouping with other "bads" and "medicores". The B imo is a bigger problem. A could be soluted with some sort of "if there's no other premade queueing in x minutes, put them against pugs". You see, not all premades are filled with skilled players. "Premade" is any group that is put together before the match, no matter what the composition. My first pvp experiences were in a "premade", as in I was grouping with my friends who taught me how to pvp and answered if I had any questions about it. I have once "premaded" with two people who were very unexperienced in pvp, again in order to teach them. Most of the times when I "premade", I premade with my friends, who aren't any better than I am. But we are just three medicore people and we don't always win against pugs, if those pugs happen to have players better skilled than us/more people as skilled as us while we have a lot people less skilled than us in our team. If premades always faced premades without any matchmaking, medicores and bads grouping together would be constantly matched against skilled players who are now "farming the pugs". And if you think 4 skilled people can farm pugs with random amout of skilled/medicore/bad players, think of how they would farm teams that automatically have x amount of medicores and bads. Best that these groups could hope for is getting another premade with medicores and bads against them, and then the situation would be pretty much the same as it is now if the other team doesn't have a premade. Of course, a matchmaking system would help with this problem. But if there was a matchmaking system, this wouldn't be such a problem. 4 skilled people with voice chat would have an advantage against 4 skilled people without a voice chat, but not big enough of an advantage to actually "farm" them. Edited December 15, 2013 by Seireeni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncelSam Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 And no one says you can't. BUT what many of us is saying IS that you should Q against others with that same intention. The Idea that a PUG isn't MMO is just small minded and narrow sighted. The challenge of playing in a PUG or in a Premade game, should be as different as having a cup of tea or Coffey. BUT the objective tho is almost always the same; playing together with other live players against other live players. So... Really... Give this argument a rest now will ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! / I agree! Its a freedom of choise what type of PvP u want Should have been ingame long time ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Aside for roles they will also need to balance skill... 4 people in a premade are usually good players... Pugs are... Well the majority are the type that run (3 of them) to grab pylon and then all 3 leave it. The best solution would be to balance premades. If 1 team has a 4 man premade then the other team must have a 4 man premade and then add pugs. Having the ability to pick 3 other people that you KNOW are not imbeciles is a huge advantage and the most important one. Why don't sports leagues balance teams? Well, that's a legit question even I don't fully understand; Money, probably. Oh, and the desire to win. You're basically saying premades are jerks for wanting to win. One property of competition? Wanting to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncelSam Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Why don't sports leagues balance teams? Well, that's a legit question even I don't fully understand; Money, probably. Oh, and the desire to win. You're basically saying premades are jerks for wanting to win. One property of competition? Wanting to win. If you havent noticed there is divisions and Leagues in sports. its there so u cant (PUG) stomp the opponenet, so you get a balanced and intresting game. Retardo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 If you havent noticed there is divisions and Leagues in sports. its there so u cant (PUG) stomp the opponenet, so you get a balanced and intresting game. Retardo. There are divisions, but there are also "pug stomps" and shutouts. Your point is invalid. Fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zabrak Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Why don't sports leagues balance teams? Well, that's a legit question even I don't fully understand; Money, probably. Oh, and the desire to win. You're basically saying premades are jerks for wanting to win. One property of competition? Wanting to win. I don't really care too much about premades as I'll do both, but your argument comparing to sports teams doesn't make sense. American professional sports are all about balance, why? Because nobody wants to watch a league with no competition. Competition is profitable. How do they balance? Through salary caps, draft picks ect... Sure sometimes there are better teams anyway, but how often does a team win multiple super-bowls consecutively? And for that matters there are also leagues, even high school ha JV and varsity levels, same with college and any other level of sports. Without competition the game dies would u watch a league where teams were on such different levels that it wasn't even slightly a match all the time? Probably not so to male money the NFL balances.. I've seen this sport comparison b4 on here and it drives me crazy because it's the exact opposite. Good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorojus Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 So we need managers for the pvp teams and give all players a salary. Transfers every season etc. Sounds cool. Oh and leagues ... and, and ... a higher player population to be able to divide the players over those leagues. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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