LeonBraun Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 They can't suggest anything in this game is gambling because first of all, in many places online gambling is illegal. Second, in places it's not, most have to be over 18, and this game is currently rated T for teen. Not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) You're not buying a bag of apples. you're buying a bag of random fruit and you have a chance at getting apples. Further, you know this before you buy them and you know you might not get apples, but you buy anyways. Meanwhile, over to the side is a guy who's selling guaranteed apples, but you won't buy from him. So, you buy the bag that may or may not have apples and then rage when you don't get apples, meanwhile the guy on the side is steadily selling applies that you won't buy. Gamer Logic. You're not using money... you exchanged your real money for funny, play money. Then you used that funny, play money to obtain a random chance at... something. It might be something awesome. It might be something valuless. You haven't a clue until you take the action. Now what am I talking about? 1) The funny money is casino tokens, the action is putting the token into a slot machine and pulling the lever. 2) The funny money is casino chips, the action is placing them on Red and waiting a few minutes. 3) The funny money is cartel coins, the action is opening a cartel pack. Edited December 12, 2013 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 You're not using money... you exchanged your real money for funny, play money. Then you used that funny, play money to obtain a random chance at... something. It might be something awesome. It might be something valuless. You haven't a clue until you take the action. Now what am I talking about? 1) The funny money is casino tokens, the action is putting the token into a slot machine and pulling the lever. 2) The funny money is casino chips, the action is placing them on Red and waiting a few minutes. 3) The funny money is cartel coins, the action is opening a cartel pack. 1 and 2 can pay out in cash, or give you nothing in return. 3 does not pay out in cash, and is guaranteed to give you something in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 1 and 2 can pay out in cash, or give you nothing in return. 3 does not pay out in cash, and is guaranteed to give you something in return. Real money vs. ingame is irrelevant. All are games of chance and thus gambling. I'm not making value judgements. Heck, I'm a gambler so how could I? I'm just asserting the definition. Every random element in the CM is, indeed, gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Real money vs. ingame is irrelevant. All are games of chance and thus gambling. I'm not making value judgements. Heck, I'm a gambler so how could I? I'm just asserting the definition. Every random element in the CM is, indeed, gambling. Without risk, there is no gambling. With casinos, you put your money down and depending on the cards/roll/spin, you either get it back and then some, or you lose it for good. With Cartel Packs, you're buying something and you're guaranteed to get 'something.' You may not like what you get, but that's irrelevant. You walk into the situation understanding that you're getting 5-6 random items with a couple being guaranteed to be of a particular rarity and that's 'all' you're guaranteed. Grab Bags are not a form of gambling. No matter how the buyer might feel, there's no risk of loss of any kind. Edited December 12, 2013 by Infernixx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 What happens in the Cartel Market stays in the Cartel Market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Real money vs. ingame is irrelevant. All are games of chance and thus gambling. I'm not making value judgements. Heck, I'm a gambler so how could I? I'm just asserting the definition. Every random element in the CM is, indeed, gambling. You missed the guaranteed part didn't you. You can't lose with guaranteed returns. It's a variable return, but guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Everyone who thinks the cartel packs are gambling, what are you planning to do about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) You missed the guaranteed part didn't you. You can't lose with guaranteed returns. It's a variable return, but guaranteed. Oh, awesome! So let's say that I put a $5 chip down on the table. 25% of the time, the casino will give me $10. 75% of the time, the casino will give me 10 cents. Guaranteed but variable return = not gambling? Edited December 12, 2013 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Everyone who thinks the cartel packs are gambling, what are you planning to do about it? Nothing. I may be a gambler, but I've never bought or opened a pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Oh, awesome! So let's say that I put a $5 chip down on the table. 25% of the time, the casino will give me $10. 75% of the time, the casino will give me 10 cents. Guaranteed but variable return = not gambling? When you find a casino that does that, then you might have a point, but inventing make-believe scenarios to try and create wiggle-room is a losing prospect, over all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Maybe they should set up some sort of centralized trading system where players can buy CM things for in-game credits. We could call it the Gigantic Trading Network. Oooh, or the Global Trading Network... naah... doesn't quite have the right ring to it... I'm sure that if we just work together we could figure this out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 There is no gambling involved here. When you buy a cartel pack it states exactly what you will be getting inside, x amount of this, x amount of that, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Oh, awesome! So let's say that I put a $5 chip down on the table. 25% of the time, the casino will give me $10. 75% of the time, the casino will give me 10 cents. Guaranteed but variable return = not gambling? No. I don't know what math you're using but that's a loss of $4.90, or a gain of $5. There is a win or lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 There is no gambling involved here. When you buy a cartel pack it states exactly what you will be getting inside, x amount of this, x amount of that, etc. No. No Cartel pack says "There is a black/black dye in here. BUY ME!" The only thing we know is that there is an undefined, unknown percentage chance of getting specific things. Sort of like when you drop a chip on Red, a chip on Black, and a chip on 0 at the Roulette table. You know the odds are something like 49/49/1 on those bets, you know one is going to hit, but you don't know which one. Still gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 When you find a casino that does that, then you might have a point, but inventing make-believe scenarios to try and create wiggle-room is a losing prospect, over all. If I created a casino that did only that, I would be arrested for operating an illegal gambling establishment. It's gambling. Nice try at avoiding logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAMossimo Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Everyone who thinks the cartel packs are gambling, what are you planning to do about it? Same thing I have done since their inception; ignore them. That makes me a bad subscriber though, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 No. I don't know what math you're using but that's a loss of $4.90, or a gain of $5. There is a win or lose. There is a guaranteed return. That was your point, was it not? If there is a guaranteed return, it's not gambling. But I just showed that guaranteed return plays no role in the definition. So what's your next theory as to why the cartel pack game of chance isn't gambling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 When you put money down on a casino table, you wager money with risk of getting nothing back. When you put money down on a cartel pack, you are guaranteed to get exactly what you are said to be receiving. There is no gambling involved there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 There is a guaranteed return. That was your point, was it not? If there is a guaranteed return, it's not gambling. But I just showed that guaranteed return plays no role in the definition. So what's your next theory as to why the cartel pack game of chance isn't gambling? There are two states to your scenario, lose $4.90 or gain $5. Where exactly is the return in the first state? Pay $5 and get $0.10 back is equivalent to pay $4.90. There's your issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I gambled with around $300 and made about 40 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 It's gambling. Technically it may skirt some definitions of "gambling", but to deny that it is is lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 No. No Cartel pack says "There is a black/black dye in here. BUY ME!" The only thing we know is that there is an undefined, unknown percentage chance of getting specific things. Sort of like when you drop a chip on Red, a chip on Black, and a chip on 0 at the Roulette table. You know the odds are something like 49/49/1 on those bets, you know one is going to hit, but you don't know which one. Still gambling. Random factors do not turn something into gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Using this kind of gambling logic would suggest it is also gambling when you buy a pack of hockey/baseball/CCG card packs. Is it gambling if you open up a 100 magic card packs looking for a Black Lotus? Not in the legal sense. You still get as many commons, uncommons, and rares as you paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) ^this it's gambling and thts a fact. It's gambling. Technically it may skirt some definitions of "gambling", but to deny that it is is lunacy. Fact: Gambling is legally defined and heavily regulated. Fact: The Cartel Packs, Magic The Gathering Cards, Baseball Cards, etc, do not fall under these regulations. Using "gambling" in the colloquial sense is really up to the subjective opinion of the user. Stating something is a fact does nothing to prove or disprove it is. Edited December 12, 2013 by RandomXChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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