Imagine if SWTOR launched with all of this...

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

So what you're saying is imagine if EA waited an extra 2 years and launched it with the features and polish expected of them and a MMO?

 

that would have been a smart move, kind of

[Knockerz]

I don't think that is possible without seriously delaying the launch of swtor. It's a nice dream, but I don't think any mmorpg ever launched with all those features. Perhaps if we replace the human developers and programmers with advance future robots or androids that work 24 hours for seven days a week.

[Knockerz]

Oh, that I do. You can always tell the MMOs that are having trouble as they begin to throw everything they have at their players. Free characters, free levels, free gifts, just please please come back and play our game...

 

The ones that do well are those that are 'steady' in their releasing of new content and steady at improving existing content.

 

Example: For those who didn't know, the Developers added in a good bit of new music to established content. No mention of it, but there it is. Also, my load times are considerably quicker than what they were before the patch. I don't know if it's something they did, but I haven't changed a thing on my end this week.

 

Do they have issues still? Oh sure. Are they game-breaking? Nah. So, I'm good with them being steady at fixing and releasing new stuff. That's the sign of a long-term plan and the sign of a healthy company.

 

I strongly agree with this statement. Swtor is getting better like wow, but under different market conditions.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I strongly agree with this statement. Swtor is getting better like wow, but under different market conditions.

 

better than WOW is very subjective, it´s certainly better for me since I can´t stand cartoon fantasy and Pandas

Edited December 5, 2013 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[MallocV]

Goes to show you how a strong CEO that had the balls to stand up and say "No we're not releasing an unfinished product" couldve retained those early substribers. Where would/could this game be if those early 1mill+ players actually sub'd after the first 30 days.

 

Couldve shouldve wouldve we'll never know for sure

[Idunhavaname]

People forget that Rome is not built in a day.

 

Using that logic, you can't compete with Rome with a lesser government else people will just head to Rome instead of your country.

[Cretinus]

... I wonder if that would have been enough to stave off the naysayers if they delayed launch for another year or two to get it ALL IN. Probably not. But I feel like the game as it is now is closer to the vision of what the devs always meant it to be.

 

These games grow dynamically, you can't implement everything before first release. Not only from a technological point of view, but also because you have to know who your community is and what it wants in order not to start producing stuff that nobody wants.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Cretinus

[Fantazm]

Bothered.

 

As someone that has been subbed since early access I couldn't care less what it looked like 2 years ago. It is as it is now.

[ItachiZaku]

Having some more stuff would have helped my people stick around. More people sticking around would have helped prevent server merges, which is the reason why ALL the rest of my people left the game. Ruined legacys since they lost their early access toon names.

[slafko]

• Space Combat (PvE)
  
• Space PvP (GS)
  
• Warzones
  
• Arenas
  
• Flashpoints (SM and HM)
  
• Story Mode, Hard Mode, and Nightmare Mode Operations
  
• Heroic Quests
  
• All content fully voiced
  
• Engaging quests that are cinematic
  
• Iconic classes and class stories
  
• Dailies
  
• Personal starship (like housing)
  
• Social Points system
  
• Datacrons
  
• Achievements and Codex entries
  
• Fully customizable gear (keep your same look for as long as you want it)
  
• Legacy System
  
• Collections
  
• Companions (including romance options and approval/disapproval system)
  
• Reputations
  
• Moral alignment (LS, DS, or neutral)
  
• Cool ground mounts
  

 

All wrapped up in an Old Republic era feel. Holy crap...this game has a LOT going on. I wonder if that would have been enough to stave off the naysayers if they delayed launch for another year or two to get it ALL IN. Probably not. But I feel like the game as it is now is closer to the vision of what the devs always meant it to be.

 

That would have been a *complete* game. A game that would have been able to give other MMO's a run for their money and a game that wouldn't have seen such a dramatic subscriber exdous shortly after its launch.

 

Complete products ftw.

[AlienEyeTX]

• Space Combat (PvE)
  
• Space PvP (GS)
  
• Warzones
  
• Arenas
  
• Flashpoints (SM and HM)
  
• Story Mode, Hard Mode, and Nightmare Mode Operations
  
• Heroic Quests
  
• All content fully voiced
  
• Engaging quests that are cinematic
  
• Iconic classes and class stories
  
• Dailies
  
• Personal starship (like housing)
  
• Social Points system
  
• Datacrons
  
• Achievements and Codex entries
  
• Fully customizable gear (keep your same look for as long as you want it)
  
• Legacy System
  
• Collections
  
• Companions (including romance options and approval/disapproval system)
  
• Reputations
  
• Moral alignment (LS, DS, or neutral)
  
• Cool ground mounts
  

 

All wrapped up in an Old Republic era feel. Holy crap...this game has a LOT going on. I wonder if that would have been enough to stave off the naysayers if they delayed launch for another year or two to get it ALL IN. Probably not. But I feel like the game as it is now is closer to the vision of what the devs always meant it to be.

 

Games, especially MMOs, grow over time. Nothing will launch with "everything" that eventually makes it great. Granted, this game could have used a few more months to tweak some things, but there's nothing to be done about it now.

 

It is good now. It does not matter how it was then. Just move forward, young padawan.

[ImpactHound]

• Space Combat (PvE)
  
• Space PvP (GS)
  
• Warzones
  
• Arenas
  
• Flashpoints (SM and HM)
  
• Story Mode, Hard Mode, and Nightmare Mode Operations
  
• Heroic Quests
  
• All content fully voiced
  
• Engaging quests that are cinematic
  
• Iconic classes and class stories
  
• Dailies
  
• Personal starship (like housing)
  
• Social Points system
  
• Datacrons
  
• Achievements and Codex entries
  
• Fully customizable gear (keep your same look for as long as you want it)
  
• Legacy System
  
• Collections
  
• Companions (including romance options and approval/disapproval system)
  
• Reputations
  
• Moral alignment (LS, DS, or neutral)
  
• Cool ground mounts
  

 

All wrapped up in an Old Republic era feel. Holy crap...this game has a LOT going on. I wonder if that would have been enough to stave off the naysayers if they delayed launch for another year or two to get it ALL IN. Probably not. But I feel like the game as it is now is closer to the vision of what the devs always meant it to be.

 

Only 5½ of your bullet points weren't in launch. But I get your point, the game might have had a stabler subscriber base if it had launched in a better state.

[Diefenbaker]

People take WoW and everything it has in it now and then compare it to a new launch like SWTOR and then whine, proving again that people are either stupid or crazy or both.

 

Anyone remember with what WoW launched? Yeah, that's right. Most of the stuff that is in it now wasn't in it then.

[Icestar]

• Space Combat (PvE)
  
• Space PvP (GS)
  
• Warzones
  
• Arenas
  
• Flashpoints (SM and HM)
  
• Story Mode, Hard Mode, and Nightmare Mode Operations
  
• Heroic Quests
  
• All content fully voiced
  
• Engaging quests that are cinematic
  
• Iconic classes and class stories
  
• Dailies
  
• Personal starship (like housing)
  
• Social Points system
  
• Datacrons
  
• Achievements and Codex entries
  
• Fully customizable gear (keep your same look for as long as you want it)
  
• Legacy System
  
• Collections
  
• Companions (including romance options and approval/disapproval system)
  
• Reputations
  
• Moral alignment (LS, DS, or neutral)
  
• Cool ground mounts
  

 

All wrapped up in an Old Republic era feel. Holy crap...this game has a LOT going on. I wonder if that would have been enough to stave off the naysayers if they delayed launch for another year or two to get it ALL IN. Probably not. But I feel like the game as it is now is closer to the vision of what the devs always meant it to be.

 

Actually all they had to do was relase 1.2 as 1.0 and this game would not have experienced what it did.

 

This game has many things now but it takes alot to make players come back.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Icestar

[Callaron]

Actually all they had to do was relase 1.2 as 1.0 and this game would not have experienced what it did.

 

This game has many things now but it takes alot to make players come back.

 

Yep, that's something that I've talked about a few times with a RL friend that plays MMOs.

When they botch the launch it's something that is hard to come back from; most of the players that deem an MMO not worth their time the first time around aren't likely to come back to it, no matter how many updates its gotten since then.

There are tons of MMO's that I've tried over the years, and then ditched after 1-3 months and never looked back at.

[DOHboy]

yeah, and imagine what would it be like if we had waited another 2 years for the game to launch..or a year..or 6 months (ok that might have been worth it).

 

As people have said, game grows, launch wasn't perfect, but expectations were so sky high that anything short of a billion subs would have seemed a "failure" in some peoples eyes.

[MallocV]

People take WoW and everything it has in it now and then compare it to a new launch like SWTOR and then whine, proving again that people are either stupid or crazy or both.

 

Anyone remember with what WoW launched? Yeah, that's right. Most of the stuff that is in it now wasn't in it then.

 

Hey remember when they make power windows in lux cars only and then you could start buy them in all cars and now they're standard

 

People take power windows in cars and everything it has in it and compare it to a new car with roll up windows and then whine, proving again that people are either stupid or crazy or both.

 

All products go in this way its called innovation

[ImpactHound]

Hey remember when they make power windows in lux cars only and then you could start buy them in all cars and now they're standard

 

People take power windows in cars and everything it has in it and compare it to a new car with roll up windows and then whine, proving again that people are either stupid or crazy or both.

 

All products go in this way its called innovation

 

I hate power windows, the motors go bad after a few years and beyond the inconvenience of not being able to use drive-thru fast food, they can cost $300-400 to replace.

[LtBombshell]

I wonder then, if Bioware/EA should have waited an extra 6 months-year before releasing the game to avoid the huge drop in subs once players ran out of things to do. If the game had come out with all of this, do you think the drop in subs would have happened?

[Sarfux]

I wonder then, if Bioware/EA should have waited an extra 6 months-year before releasing the game to avoid the huge drop in subs once players ran out of things to do. If the game had come out with all of this, do you think the drop in subs would have happened?

 

That's just a majority of mmo players these days. A game could be fun, exciting, invigorating, new stuff to do, a new way to play and for some reason, people just like to bash because it's not up their unrealistic standards. Some people just like to "get hyped to play X mmo coming out, play it, then lose interest, bash it, move to the next one" type of thing. I never understood why.

 

I think a lot of unrealistic people expect mmos to have millions upon millions of subscribers and if it doesn't have as many subs as wow did at one point, it is a failure. Weird logic. But I could understand it.

[Sarfux]

I hate power windows, the motors go bad after a few years and beyond the inconvenience of not being able to use drive-thru fast food, they can cost $300-400 to replace.

 

My 1993 Chevy k1500 Silverado z71 has never had to have the power windows replaced

 

That's because it's an old chevy.

[AshlaBoga]

yeah, and imagine what would it be like if we had waited another 2 years for the game to launch..or a year..or 6 months (ok that might have been worth it).

 

As people have said, game grows, launch wasn't perfect, but expectations were so sky high that anything short of a billion subs would have seemed a "failure" in some peoples eyes.

 

Actually the Docs wanted to wait another 6 months to launch with most of the 1.2 stuff (except the Rakghoul event, that was done on their schedule). But EA said "my answer is no."

[Ren_simp]

Anyone here for the launch of wow? Well swtors launch crapped all over it

Wow release with like 1 instance at endgame no raid just 1 level 60 instance

And they came very lose to pulling the plug after 1year It was only with the release of BC an then wotlk where wow really took off its been dying very slowly since cata release.

 

Mmos are a work in progress look at the latest addition to swtor GSF now this will open up the doors

For free flight zones possibly linking each planet right up to the home worlds

This game will only get better.

[veevito]

It is odd. Some of the improvements should have definitely been seen and a part of launch. But at the same time, games in this genre can only be refined once launched. Betas just aren't large enough or include the right people. Betas need to evolve......

 

Alot of changes could have been foreseen. Others need a live base to refine.

 

Everything is in flux. You can wait many years, and still not get it right if your development is in a vacuum, which i think this game was. Many of the changes should have been in at launch.

 

Others need a large live base to evolve. It isn't easy.

[Arkerus]

This whole conversation is kind of pointless. I do get it, but it doesn't really mean anything.

 

You can take ANY MMO, or any game for that matter, and say "imagine if it had all of this at launch". Companies can't afford to sit on product for a long time once its release compatible. Once a product CAN be released all time spent without the product out in the market is not only loss but opportunity loss as well.

 

The product we have is the product we have. It's an interesting conversation but there is absolutely no basis for saying they should have waited to release it. They didn't release a unfinished product that you couldn't play. They simply released a product that wasn't as full as some people wanted.

 

There is also no base to make the claim they should have waited 3 months, 6 months or a year. You can't make that judgement call because there is a good chance that nothing we have today would have been developed. A lot of the items we have today are only here because the market forced them to add it to the game, AFTER it was launched.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Arkerus