BW, Please Release More Nightmare Content

[Ty_walla]

BW,

 

Thank you for making such a great game. I have really enjoyed the time spent in Swtor. I will make this quick and request that you give the PvE community some additional information about nightmare content being released. For raiders that look to the nightmare content to fill their time, hardmode and storymode have become quite repetitive and I am sure most nightmare raiders that are still around are looking for content that is harder than what has recently been released. What is your plan for the release of nightmare content? I ask this question because the WoW expansion, WildStar, and ESO are all coming out with a proposed release date of Spring 2014 (last time I checked) which is only a few months away. They will supposedly ALL offer more challenging PvE content (my opinion) than what is present in Swtor. Can you give the PvE community that is looking for nightmare content some kind of timeframe? My guild is not planning to stick around in Swtor once WildStar releases because of the lack of content at the nightmare level. I'm sure other guilds are feeling the same pressure to move on because of the content not being challenging enough for some. Can you give the PvE community something to chew on as far as a tentative date for more nightmare content?

 

Thank you.

[Bowenator]

Would love to see this as well, but realistically I don't expect to see the next round of NiM ops until spring well after 2.5 and GS have had some breathing room. It is understandable on Bioware's part since NiM content is truly accessible to only a small handful of the player population.

 

After 8 weeks of farming HM DF/DP we are already starting to see attrition in the raid group. I never played any other MMOs, but I suspect this is a common theme. To be fair, there are still things to go for like "survivor" achievements in NiM S&V but those don't seem to motivate most of our group.

 

Would love to see the new NiMs sooner, but not holding my breath.

[lukenick]

There is no way the new wow expansion will be out by Spring 2014, Blizzard is notorious with pushing back release dates

[Emperor-Norton]

From what I have heard NiM DF & DP won't release until 2.7 in February, mostly due to getting Starfighter out for the Holidays. I get the feeling quite a few people among the hardcore crowd will quit when there is nothing to do and NiM is so far away. Edited November 21, 2013 by Emperor-Norton

[Xenphon]

February? Really? That is quite a long time away. That's acually unsettling to think about. I did not expect NiM in 2013, but I was hoping for it to come early January, with perhaps DF NiM on PTS in December. I am sure I won't be the only annoyed end-game raider if February ends up being true.

 

I mean, TFB NiM was out in June, roughly two months after the release of RotHC. Sure, TFB had existed longer than RotHC, but S&V was out the following month, so three months. Based on that I'd say we could expect DF NiM in January and DP NiM in February. Really do hope that happens.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Xenphon

[saatana]

People really shouldn´t ask for NiM content. Ask for NEW content and not same old same old with bigger numbers.

[steave]

People really shouldn´t ask for NiM content. Ask for NEW content and not same old same old with bigger numbers.

 

If that new content is released with NiM from the start, sure.

The point is getting something challenging, not just a new place to sleep trough.

[Ty_walla]

If that new content is released with NiM from the start, sure.

The point is getting something challenging, not just a new place to sleep trough.

 

I agree. The content is eaten up so quickly because in general, it is too easy. My personal opinion is that WoW will take back their raiders, ESO will take the skyrim/explorer types, and WildStar will take the players looking for the hardest content with updated graphics/gameplay. That doesn't leave much of a population left for Swtor unless BW can give the PvE community some kind of tentative timeline for nightmare content that will keep the raiders engaged instead of farming gear for their 2nd/3rd alts. I think it would be in BW's best interest to give a schedule for future content since they are about to take multiple population dips come Spring 2014. Hopefully BW will respond quickly as I'm sure many guilds that raid at a nightmare level are weighing their options.

[slafko]

People really shouldn´t ask for NiM content. Ask for NEW content and not same old same old with bigger numbers.

 

Common sense is strong in this one.

[Cookiackus]

If you think about this logically, you know that they are aware of the fact that next spring they will lose some people to these new MMOs. However I don't think their plan is going to be to push out Nightmare content faster to keep the I don't know 200 -300 some odd people that actually clear this content. I think they are more focused on keeping the majority of the people with the rest of the content in the game instead. This is why your seeing the Galactic Star Fighter coming out this Christmas and then more world events and such after that. That kind of content is what most people play this game for, not the Nightmare raids unfortunately. So I do think that some of the Nightmare population will stick around however most will try out Wild Star and ESO to see how the end game content really is going to be. If its challenging and fun then i'm sure SWTOR will lose a lot of these people but who knows until we try it. These wouldn't be the first MMOs ever to promise something they did not deliver on. I really wish this game would pump out more challenging end game content a lot faster but I understand why they don't. They have limited resources and time so they are not able to put that kind of effort into every aspect of the game.

[MitchPB]

1% of the game population clear NiM content sooo yeah...

 

+ The holidays are comming up

[countpopeula]

BW,

 

Thank you for making such a great game. I have really enjoyed the time spent in Swtor. I will make this quick and request that you give the PvE community some additional information about nightmare content being released. For raiders that look to the nightmare content to fill their time, hardmode and storymode have become quite repetitive and I am sure most nightmare raiders that are still around are looking for content that is harder than what has recently been released. What is your plan for the release of nightmare content? I ask this question because the WoW expansion, WildStar, and ESO are all coming out with a proposed release date of Spring 2014 (last time I checked) which is only a few months away. They will supposedly ALL offer more challenging PvE content (my opinion) than what is present in Swtor. Can you give the PvE community that is looking for nightmare content some kind of timeframe? My guild is not planning to stick around in Swtor once WildStar releases because of the lack of content at the nightmare level. I'm sure other guilds are feeling the same pressure to move on because of the content not being challenging enough for some. Can you give the PvE community something to chew on as far as a tentative date for more nightmare content?

 

Thank you.

 

You guys still have to Dragonslayer. Isn't Frequencyz spamming Fleet reminding everyone about how a PvE server hasn't l2dragonslayer yet enough of an incentive to keep chasing it? I know we beat you to it, but that doesn't mean you should quit. That title run is content you haven't completed. 16man NiM is content you haven't completed. 16man HM DF/DP is content you haven't completed. Hateful Entity is content you haven't completed. How can you sit here and complain about a lack of content when you have not completed the majority of it? This isn't a troll, this is a legitimate question that I would like a response to. You guys snagged the NiM Styrak kill and suddenly are too hot to trot. Then you don't stick to your guns. I'm honestly so baffled by your public front and your actual intentions that I am at a loss for words.

 

With Space Expansion coming up, how can you say they're not working on content? I would love to see PvE space based raiding. Taking on Capital ships, directing a squadron, or even commanding your own Cap would be insane. The majority of SW happens IN SPACE, IN SPACE BATTLES. How can you be 2 weeks from seeing more Space content and not be excited?

 

I agree. The content is eaten up so quickly because in general, it is too easy. My personal opinion is that WoW will take back their raiders, ESO will take the skyrim/explorer types, and WildStar will take the players looking for the hardest content with updated graphics/gameplay. That doesn't leave much of a population left for Swtor unless BW can give the PvE community some kind of tentative timeline for nightmare content that will keep the raiders engaged instead of farming gear for their 2nd/3rd alts. I think it would be in BW's best interest to give a schedule for future content since they are about to take multiple population dips come Spring 2014. Hopefully BW will respond quickly as I'm sure many guilds that raid at a nightmare level are weighing their options.

 

The HM content is not eaten up all that quickly. It's a stepping stone for the NiM stuff. We cleared everything on the first or second day of its release, and then we started alt runs to gear our toons that we didn't put through NiM. Once you know the fights, it's a grind. Progression comes from learning the stuff. It took you 2.5 months to get your From Beyond Titles, another month to get a NiM SV clear, and you still haven't titled. How can you make the ridiculous claim that it's too easy? If you want adaptive challenges, play HOTS. I promise you won't get bored there while you get destroyed by strategies you didn't see coming because they were engineered by players. Sandbox, player driven content is the only thing that has the potential to stay fresh 100% of the time. Everything else has to be written, coded, tested, and QA'd to ensure it's not just fluff. I'll be the first to say BW does a poor job of this, but they do put out content. If it's not fast enough for you, then just quit already and take your business elsewhere.

Edited November 20, 2013 by countpopeula

[AshlaBoga]

NiM Dread/Oricon is probably coming in 2.6.

[FridgeLM]

Yeah I wasn't going to be the first to comment in that line but you guys are complaining about how hardcores are apparently not being catered to, yet you didn't kill NiM Styrak until September. I'm really not trying to disparage you but you guys were well over a month behind and from what popeula is saying you don't have Dragonslayer. I'm posting to indicate that you're not representative of cutting edge guilds and I don't like it when cutting edge guilds are portrayed to be unreasonable whiners.

 

Get some perspective - 2.2 was pretty much 100% hardcore-oriented with very little to interest a casual player. That was in June, and it wasn't until October that new ops that the majority of the player base could expect to complete were released.

 

That dearth of accessible content didn't effect me directly because <Death and Taxes>, but I could see how people in worse guilds had little to be excited about for a good chunk of the year. Frankly, I'd wager that kind of content shortage does more damage to the size of the player base than what you're complaining about.

 

So hardcores have a small dry spell in challenging content. It's really not a big deal - 1 day raid weeks can be luxurious. The content cycle is what it is.

[Ty_walla]

1% of the game population clear NiM content sooo yeah...

 

+ The holidays are comming up

 

Completely agree. I just enjoy the game a lot and would like to see some type of tentative timeline introduced. Much like they did I believe right after RotHC released. By no means am I asking to serve the 1%. I'm requesting that the PvE community be given some information regarding PvE content; especially nightmare since it is usually the next thing down the pipe following an operation release (reason for thread title). I know many guilds are looking around to do different size operations be it 8 or 16 but unfortunately not all guilds can switch from 8 to 16 without recruiting more players.

[dscount]

I'd rather them:

 

1) Develop and QA NiM content that is not the same HM Content with DOUBLE numbers and additional mechanics. Meaning a NEW OPERATION with just NIM in the content and a narly Challenge that won't be cleared in first week (TFB NiM DG v1.0 anyone?). Like the Entities are now for some of the harder core guilds.

 

2) Before rolling out NiM for DF or DP - SEPARATE them from HM lockouts. Just plain silly this technical limitation exists today and they should have the means by now to separate them out. (Create cloned instance w/different name). Shouldn't be able to cheese around a certain NiM boss fight by going HM and then back to NiM.

 

3) More Oriconian story content. Was a nice change from the Makeb story line, but it does further the games story line (Even if not using as much voice over as the 1-50 Story line does).

 

4) More COOL MOUNTS & PETS only available in Operations (NiM/HM). Great idea as drops in multiple operations. Too bad most the PETS had been reskinned and sold and Cartel Marketed. MORE of them! Everyone knows when they see the cool TFB Mount, EC Tank, S&V Tank, etc. that someone completed some narly content!

[Ty_walla]

Yeah I wasn't going to be the first to comment in that line but you guys are complaining about how hardcores are apparently not being catered to, yet you didn't kill NiM Styrak until September. I'm really not trying to disparage you but you guys were well over a month behind and from what popeula is saying you don't have Dragonslayer. I'm posting to indicate that you're not representative of cutting edge guilds and I don't like it when cutting edge guilds are portrayed to be unreasonable whiners.

 

Get some perspective - 2.2 was pretty much 100% hardcore-oriented with very little to interest a casual player. That was in June, and it wasn't until October that new ops that the majority of the player base could expect to complete were released.

 

That dearth of accessible content didn't effect me directly because <Death and Taxes>, but I could see how people in worse guilds had little to be excited about for a good chunk of the year. Frankly, I'd wager that kind of content shortage does more damage to the size of the player base than what you're complaining about.

 

So hardcores have a small dry spell in challenging content. It's really not a big deal - 1 day raid weeks can be luxurious. The content cycle is what it is.

 

 

Great input. Thank you for contributing to this thread. I didn't post this for BW to cater to the hardcores so to speak. I was hoping BW would give another tentative schedule as they did before RotHC I believe. They gave about a 6 month future timeline of proposed content releases. I want to also congratulate you guys on your progression. I have watched a lot of your videos and I enjoy the commentary haha. I also am only representing myself, not hardcore guilds or any guild for that matter. I only mentioned my own guild because of our future intentions with a lack of PvE operations content.

 

As per my guild, we greatly look up to DnT for strats when we formed our 8man on July 30th, 2013. We were late starting TFB/SV nim but cleared both by Sept 8, 2013. Not defending my guild by any means. Just some of the statements flying around happen to be a bit misguided. Anyways, hopefully we all can stay on topic and I enjoy any further input from anyone relating to a schedule for future PvE content from BW.

[Redfiree]

If you need a challenge, try shortmaning, if you use voice chat, get rid of it. You could also have some players take off some gear, lots of options to make the current HM content more challenging without making content no one else can do.

[FridgeLM]

If you need a challenge, try shortmaning, if you use voice chat, get rid of it. You could also have some players take off some gear, lots of options to make the current HM content more challenging without making content no one else can do.

 

That's going a little far, they're better off getting people on to grab NiM achievements you missed the first go round if they're burning for something still challenging to do. Sure, they overgear it now, but the mechanics are still harder than current HMs.

 

Sorry for being flippant earlier but this discussion goes on in every mmo.

 

A better way to address this is to push for an alternative - content cycle with a longer gap between content releases but one where all difficulties are released at once.

 

Of course, that has its own problems - possible that with a longer gap that people actually will get bored and leave.

Edited November 21, 2013 by FridgeLM

[Ty_walla]

That's going a little far, they're better off getting people on to grab NiM achievements you missed the first go round if they're burning for something still challenging to do. Sure, they overgear it now, but the mechanics are still harder than current HMs.

 

Sorry for being flippant earlier but this discussion goes on in every mmo.

 

A better way to address this is to push for an alternative - content cycle with a longer gap between content releases but one where all difficulties are released at once.

 

Of course, that has its own problems - possible that with a longer gap that people actually will get bored and leave.

 

 

No problem at all. I would agree that perhaps a different content cycle might be better but I think there are definite disadvantages to it. I know this convo goes on in every mmo. I just loved how BW gave out that 6 month timeline and I would love to see that again. Very ambitious and very rewarding I would think for their player-base.

[Felkroth]

I am enjoying the lull. I get to raid one day a week, and twink out alts.... instead of the 3 to 4 days we had been doing for NiM TFB and SNV in the beginning.

[MitchPB]

A better way to address this is to push for an alternative - content cycle with a longer gap between content releases but one where all difficulties are released at once.

 

Of course, that has its own problems - possible that with a longer gap that people actually will get bored and leave.

 

It would work for slower progression guilds who take longer to clear content, but as you said guilds who clear content quickly (NiM included) they'd be sitting there bored having cleared everything.

[Rambeezy]

I think the ammount of content out ATM is just fine. Only thing bioware is doing, which I dispute, is releasing beter gear than NiM TFB/S&V through HM DF/DP; but arena was just released and classes are being balanced because of pvp, so I understand why a higher level of pve gear was needed. Yes, some guilds are ready for NiM, but IMO the community is not. The shadowlands only has 1 group of Dragonslayers, no Hatefull entity kills, no 16man NiM S&V/TFB clears and only 1 16 man HM DP clear. More content being released too soon would only lessen the value of these kills/clears; should you, like me, even still value said kills. If you want content to be released sooner, go back and clear **** that hasn't been cleared yet. It's basically like the community has paid for a loaf of bread, ate half, and let the rest go stale; no pun intended. If I was bioware, I would be disgusted by customers asking for more content, when the customers haven't even cleared what's already out. Sorry, but until we step it up and clear everything, bioware shouldn't release anymore content.

 

P.S. What bioware should do for the community, right now, is separate 16 man lockouts from 8 man lockouts.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Rambeezy

[Ruskaeth]

P.S. What bioware should do for the community, right now, is separate 16 man lockouts from 8 man lockouts.

That would make gearing and farming the content for 16 man guild (who can also run 2 x 8 man operations) so easy and fast that it would make people to demand new content even faster. At least those rare 16 man guilds who run things efficiently today. I wouldn't object. That would just provide gear for alts faster via mains alongside with alt runs.

[Anthraxal]

The NIM public is indeed few and far between on many servers, so it makes sense that limited resources should or could be dedicated to the development of NIM content.

 

However, NIM public is also one that (usually) spend a lot of time ingame and good amount of CC/IRL credats into the game. To keep it captive, Bioware can't afford to let 6 month run bewteen NIM content releases.

 

Rumors are that DF NIM wouldn't be implemented before February. If it's true, it's gonna be very hard keeping everyone on their toes til then, when we're already rehashing the same content sometimes thrice or more a week (typical week : 1 Asation NIM timer run, 1 Darvannis NIM timer run, 3+ DF HM runs, 3+ DP HM runs, 3+ Darvannis secret boss "farming"). Attendance is already slowly dwindling, a few players are talking about putting their account on hold til NIM release. Rerolling can only bring you so far, at some point. Competitive guilds have been known to deflate to the point of near-extinction in similar occurences.

 

There's no arguing NIM shouldn't be the alpha and omega of every patch, however if the launch taught us something, it's that it's no good letting too much time run between content release nor keeping players in ignorance of the next step. With high expectations on games like Wildstar or TESO, Bioware can't afford to let even a fringe of their paying player base starve.