To all the people claiming the class is underpowered.

[frostbytex]

Carnage is the unwanted unneeded annoying little brother. If i was forced to spec out of rage I'd go annihilation. Guaranteed force scream crits are cool and all but I can hit harder with a larger window of opportunity for it as rage.

To get big hits it all revolves around gore which is only 6 seconds, it's just not enough.

Bosses love to move around a lot in flashpoints, you gore, he runs away.

Pvp it's very hard to get a decent gore off. You get cc'd and knocked back so often getting the full benefit out of gore is difficult. Plus the 6 seconds activates the second gore hits, so by the time your gcd is back you have 4.5 seconds left to do something.

 

Very good to know, and your reasoning makes total sense. I am trying to see in the Rage tree where the "magic" point is, where you really have all the tools that make the Rage tree really sing, if that is 31 then well the choice is simple, Anni to 40. If Rage can compete or is even better then Anni earlier then that it would be cool. Thanks again for being willing to answer our questions, it is most appreciated!

Edited December 25, 2011 by frostbytex

[Kricys]

Very good to know, and your reasoning makes total sense. I am trying to see in the Rage tree where the "magic" point is, where you really have all the tools that make the Rage tree really sing, if that is 31 then well the choice is simple, Anni to 40. If Rage can compete or is even better then Anni earlier then that it would be cool. Thanks again for being willing to answer our questions, it is most appreciated!

 

Honestly force crush would be it. You can get the 100% crit smash early on and the 100% damage, but you would only be able to do it with choke which is a 47 sec cd.

[Darkarchx]

Still wondering what those ****** cleaver vibrosword things are called and where I can get them.

[Kelindris]

Honestly force crush would be it. You can get the 100% crit smash early on and the 100% damage, but you would only be able to do it with choke which is a 47 sec cd.

 

So I have seen through this thread that you approve Rage for PVP. My question is why wouldn't you just play a warrior and get the same 3 sec cd reduction but 30% more damage on Smash as Marauders have. If anything, Juggernauts are better for Rage Spec'd Pvp. Not mention more armor and mit.

[Biboonz]

a dps spec jugg might have heavy armor but he won't be that much more tanky than a marauder, my bh buddy is squishier than me by a long shot. also marauder has some nice class skills that are very good in pvp that i won't name because i just woke up and i barely see what i type.

 

also , on another note to OP , I might respec rage i think now, because i might start getting know on my server or something because i get swarmed very often now , might as well thank them for their support with a buffed up smash

[Costello]

I'd love to know how people deal with Huttball.

 

The sad thing I suspect is that as a Carnage spec no one is denying its a poor skill tree with little going for it. Even rage is better than Carnage and thats the one we share with the tanks.

 

But I would like to know what people do when they spend most their time being knocked around the hutt ball area and told can't see that target when trying to jump back on the ledge that we were just knocked off.

[Biboonz]

I play annihilation and here's what i bring to the table in huttball as a marauder ( some are shared ):

 

> charge is a very important thing in huttball , there is s till a lot of people out there that pewpew you from the ledge of the pit area by their goal line , charge them and win.

 

> cloak of pain and saber ward help run those last few meters when you have people wanting to gang you to prevent u from scoring.

 

> force shoking people over a fire is win. I call it force bbq myself. you can cc 1 guy away from your ball carrier as well if needed.

 

> predation , 50% runspeed when you have the ball is nice, it also helps you and your team get ahead of the defenders.

 

> Undying rage : very frustrating skill for people that try to kill you when you are under 10% and a couple meters from the goal , it also allows you to walk thru a fire to gain some time or shake off pursuers , just crack a medpack or have someone dump heals on you after you use it if you don't think you can make it to the goal line.

 

> force camouflage : apart from the wonderfull escape move it is , when specced in annihilation , use it to go through a lit fire when i don't have the ball and my buddies pass teh ball to me after .

 

> intimidating roar to help you or that ball carrier get out of the swarm of players trying to get him down.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Biboonz

[Majinr]

I'd love to know how people deal with Huttball.

 

The sad thing I suspect is that as a Carnage spec no one is denying its a poor skill tree with little going for it. Even rage is better than Carnage and thats the one we share with the tanks.

 

But I would like to know what people do when they spend most their time being knocked around the hutt ball area and told can't see that target when trying to jump back on the ledge that we were just knocked off.

 

huttball is favoured towards the ranged, due to its 3D ledges.. i agree it is harder to play in huttball as a melee , but that is just how huttball is designed.. nothing to do with the class. What I do is , i position myself so that if they do activate a knockback i dont get off the ledge.. takes a bit of practice, but once you know how to position youself properly then u wont be pushed back from the ledges as often as you think (except for force push from jugga and similar moves)

[frostbytex]

I play annihilation and here's what i bring to the table in huttball as a marauder ( some are shared ):

 

> charge is a very important thing in huttball , there is s till a lot of people out there that pewpew you from the ledge of the pit area by their goal line , charge them and win.

 

> cloak of pain and saber ward help run those last few meters when you have people wanting to gang you to prevent u from scoring.

 

> force shoking people over a fire is win. I call it force bbq myself. you can cc 1 guy away from your ball carrier as well if needed.

 

> predation , 50% runspeed when you have the ball is nice, it also helps you and your team get ahead of the defenders.

 

> Undying rage : very frustrating skill for people that try to kill you when you are under 10% and a couple meters from the goal , it also allows you to walk thru a fire to gain some time or shake off pursuers , just crack a medpack or have someone dump heals on you after you use it if you don't think you can make it to the goal line.

 

> force camouflage : apart from the wonderfull escape move it is , when specced in annihilation , use it to go through a lit fire when i don't have the ball and my buddies pass teh ball to me after .

 

> intimidating roar to help you or that ball carrier get out of the swarm of players trying to get him down.

 

Biboonz, you leveled as Anni, any chance you could share the spec you were using? Rage looks great but as Kricys mentioned, Force Crush is pivotal for the Rage spec to really shine, and as I am going to be PVPing 30% of the time, I want to have a spec that will work while leveling. Seemingly that may be Anni. So if you leveled as Anni, and wouldn't mind sharing your spec, it would be great! Also, are there any attacks that I wouldn't be using much anymore as Anni, I feel like I have too many damn attacks, and would love to drop something that would mean less to leveling as Anni.

Edited December 26, 2011 by frostbytex

[TyrionTM]

Yes, please share the Annihilation spec for leveling and the priority/rotation? Thanks!

[Majinr]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100MIbRr****zZRGb.1 - Anni spec for pvp/leveling

 

2 things which are choice is cloak of annihaltion -> Quick Recovery and in tier 4 between close quarters -> Subjugation - These 4 are interchangable and depends on which you prefer.

 

Rotation well force leap/Run in Battering assault-> crippling slash-> (if you force leaped battering assault) / deadly saber -> rupture -> and then i usually keep spamming vicious slash if im on top of the target

 

I dont really use Force scream, as it costs 4 rage and does not really suit Anni well - but I do suggest using it if target gets a bit far away

 

Well all you have to woch out 4 is 3 moves - Crippling slash - Rupture and Deadly Saber, as long as these 3 are up , you should wipe the floor with anyone (of course do not forget defensive cd's esp Cloak of Pain)

[Biboonz]

I force leap > deadly saber > battering assault > rupture > annihilate > rupture . if you got lucky with the dot proccing rage points otherwise just squeeze an assault. if you land all that your target is already in serious trouble.

After that you just buildup rage a bit and deadly saber / ravage etc , almost never use ravage in pvp though unless the target is stuned.

The only trick about this rotation is to use deadly saber right after you force leap , while you are leaping , as its off gcd , this way it applies the first stack when you hit land on the target .

[frostbytex]

I force leap > deadly saber > battering assault > rupture > annihilate > rupture . if you got lucky with the dot proccing rage points otherwise just squeeze an assault. if you land all that your target is already in serious trouble.

After that you just buildup rage a bit and deadly saber / ravage etc , almost never use ravage in pvp though unless the target is stuned.

The only trick about this rotation is to use deadly saber right after you force leap , while you are leaping , as its off gcd , this way it applies the first stack when you hit land on the target .

 

So I have what are going to be some silly questions, but:

 

As Anni, we still use the following skills?

 

 

Retaliation

Force Scream

 

 

I am currently doing the following:

 

Force Charge > Deadly Saber > Battering Assault > Rupture > Force Scream > Vicious Slash ( filling in gaps with Assault )

 

I probably make matters worse as I use a hardware macro for firing these off, but it seems to work pretty damn well. I am just unsure if this is all optimal or not, or if I should be toning down to only 4 or 5 atks and pooling more Rage then I currently am. Thanks in advance.

 

( I use the n52 to do my macroing )

[Lashlarue]

 

( I use the n52 to do my macroing )

 

That's where you're making your mistake. Macros will somewhat hide a bad player for a while, but you'll peak somewhere as an average player. 20 percent of Maras/Sents are really bad...60 percent are average...20 percent are awesome.

 

Which do you want to be?

 

Learn to play, not write macros. Anyone can write a macro that does the highest priority attack/ability. Real players actually play. Highest damage attacks are a small piece of the puzzle. It's not always about keying up the hardest hitter. It's about the set up, it's about seeing what state your target is in, it's about reacting to what they do.

 

From about L13 to now L23, I'm averaging 175K to 200K damage in warzones with an Anni build. It's buttony and spammy as hell, and a difficult class to play, but I absolutely nuke anyone 1 vs 1.

 

Maras and Sents are THE toughest classes to play well. They punish bad play and mental errors more severely than any other class.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Lashlarue

[Cafte]

So I have what are going to be some silly questions, but:

 

As Anni, we still use the following skills?

 

 

Retaliation

Force Scream

 

 

I am currently doing the following:

 

Force Charge > Deadly Saber > Battering Assault > Rupture > Force Scream > Vicious Slash ( filling in gaps with Assault )

 

I probably make matters worse as I use a hardware macro for firing these off, but it seems to work pretty damn well. I am just unsure if this is all optimal or not, or if I should be toning down to only 4 or 5 atks and pooling more Rage then I currently am. Thanks in advance.

 

( I use the n52 to do my macroing )

 

Being level 45 marauder, I've long since found that I just simply don't have the rage or gcd to use force scream / retaliation.

 

That said, I'm in love with my marauder. I'm a pretty unstoppable killing machine with undying rage and force camouflage, gotten so many killing blows being under 5% health when the enemy just can't do anything to me.

[Majinr]

So I have what are going to be some silly questions, but:

 

As Anni, we still use the following skills?

 

 

Retaliation

Force Scream

 

 

I am currently doing the following:

 

Force Charge > Deadly Saber > Battering Assault > Rupture > Force Scream > Vicious Slash ( filling in gaps with Assault )

 

I probably make matters worse as I use a hardware macro for firing these off, but it seems to work pretty damn well. I am just unsure if this is all optimal or not, or if I should be toning down to only 4 or 5 atks and pooling more Rage then I currently am. Thanks in advance.

 

( I use the n52 to do my macroing )

 

well I do use retaliation every time it's up - due to it being off gcd - it has decent damage - and most importantly if speccd into cloak of annihalition it reduces the cooldown of cloak of pain by 6 seconds every time you use it. On top off that the attack cannot be missed or parried - So as you can see it has a lot of plus points , so yes I use it as much as I can and would advise you 2 aswel

 

Force scream not really - only if the target has slowed me and is trying to get away and I dont have force leap up (which is rare) , but otherwise no It's 2 expensive for a Anni marauder

 

For pvp dont forget to add crippling slash into your rotation - otherwise its fine (right after deadly saber or before dats up 2 u)

Edited December 26, 2011 by Majinr

[SocXiety]

I figured I'd weigh in a bit on this being a what I'd consider hardcore PVP player who's above average in every game I play. Not meant to brag just trying to paint a clear picture. I had 3 Grand Marshals in WoW pre-BC and qualified to play in NA Finals at Blizzcon in Season 1 of Arena in BC. I've also played and PVP'd heavily as far back as UO and every major MMO since then. So I love to PVP always, all the time

 

That being said.. I've tried all 3 specs quite a bit. Rage, Carnage, and Annihilation. I find them all good in their own ways but I think it ultimately comes down to player choice. For example I played Carnage in beginning for a long long time and would often be top DPS on my team pulling 160kish damage games from Lv 10-12 onward up to 25-30. A respectable number I would say considering I have no AOEs (cept a weak smash) and was competing with much easier to play classes at that point. It didn't compare to 300-320kish I could put up with my Sniper in PVP at like Lv 15 but then ranged is always easy, especially when you regularly crit for 4000 damage.

 

Then I got curious. I started respeccing around trying out different builds trying to find out if something worked better. Ultimately I found they all offered good things such as Annihilation can especially with Berserk buff stack some pretty fine DOT ontop of throwing out some healing. I was finding I averaged healed myself for about 15-20k damage. Not bad for no self casting heals in a full length Warzone. But ultimately I didn't much like the style of it where I had to slowly build up those DOT stacks and had no real burst until I got it all rolling.

 

Then I went Rage, after reading some of this thread. I'd read during beta 4k dmg Smashes were possible but ultimately I didn't like idea of depending on Smash at the time. But I decided to give it a try just so I'd know for myself and found I still mostly agreed with my earlier assessment. Smash is not the only thing Rage offers or anything but it is the primary mechanic of the tree. And personally I found using it to be difficult because it tends to be one of the buggiest skills we have, being that you'll smash and do 0 DPS to someone standing right next to you randomly. And fact if you get knocked back or pulled or something during time you hit Smash it will go CD consume your stuff but not actually fire off the damage. Yes I could when things went well get off consistent pretty good Smash damages but ultimately I didn't feel like Rage ran smoothly for me. It felt clunky.

 

Again this is just my opinion. Not saying OP is wrong just stating playstyles. So ultimately I went back to Carnage, got Massacre, and started on a mission to make Carnage respected. Ever since then I'm usually the first or second DPS on my team second only to my guildmate whos a knife spec Operative. And if you don't know how brokenly OP Knife Ops are you will soon. I honestly would never beat his DPS output consistently. But he doesn't leave me in the dust by any means either. And ultimately I love Carnage spec, even though it probably is a bit underpowered comparatively. It's a lot of fast relentless damage with some solid burst with Force Scream crits, and if you land Gore/Ravage together the damage can be quite high. Make sure you use all your tools such a Deadly Throw roots and interrupts and you're a healers nightmare with Carnage spec. I primarily spend all day looking for and pissing off healers in Warzones. Especially Sage's or Sorcs.

 

 

Keep in mind this IS all pre-50 (I'm about Lv 45 now) and I will be happy to include more information on my progress as I hit 50 and get Champion gear (which I bet will make me scale hard and fast.) I assume the OP is 50 because I've got a good friend on my server whos a 50 Juggy who does the same 400k+ damage every game because his gear is so beefy compared to most people he fights. He also regularly gets Paladin medals for defending people and practically never dying. But he does roll with guild groups as I do. So it can also depend on if you're rolling organized PVP or not. Though I do not always have a dedicated healer or anything.

 

http://imgur.com/a/nz8Xo

 

*Edit: Decided to upload some screenshots of some lower level games where I was Carnage and topping out in DPS. These aren't necessarily my best games as I don't regularly screenshot low level matches but I figured it'd give people some idea.

Edited December 26, 2011 by SocXiety

[Nobodygr]

saying that carnage sucks at pvp...ur doing it wrong...im dominating 2-3 ppl together with carnage even 2x50s together..cloak of pain + massacre spam and u can see 2k hits popping all over,add the 3-4k force scream critical and ur a killing machine,u got around 5% hp?just camo and go grab an healing..usually i end up with 250-380k dps,50-70kills 1-5 deaths and objectives depending the situation.

The only think we luck is some good stun and knockback,all have some sort of knockback,we dont,thats all

[SocXiety]

saying that carnage sucks at pvp...ur doing it wrong...im dominating 2-3 ppl together with carnage even 2x50s together..cloak of pain + massacre spam and u can see 2k hits popping all over,add the 3-4k force scream critical and ur a killing machine,u got around 5% hp?just camo and go grab an healing..usually i end up with 250-380k dps,50-70kills 1-5 deaths and objectives depending the situation.

The only think we luck is some good stun and knockback,all have some sort of knockback,we dont,thats all

 

I would agree, as I said above, but what level are you out of curiosity?

[Crimmlee]

Please, for the love of all that is holy, get to 50 and stop dumping your concerns on the forums about low level issues you think you have.

 

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/baws.jpg

Excuse the quality, no idea where the screenshots folder is supposed to be I've searched the entire electronic arts folder.

 

Complete pug. 389k damage done.

250k is a bad game for me. 300k is what I normally average in a full length warzone.

This is by far the best warrior class I've played throughout several mmo's. I'll go far enough to say that if you have issues leveling this class and issues pvping with this class, you are playing this class incorrectly.

I'm tired of seeing threads basically saying "the class is bad because i can't press a couple buttons and 2 shot people"

 

i can do this on my lvl 13 powertech....., no offense my main atm is marauder, but seriously lvl 13 PT

[Kricys]

I'd like to see a level 13 pull 400k.

[CrazyAl]

ive been rage since 34, anni at 30, and hadnt WZd as carnage since like 18

 

but swapped back tonight at 45 and im getting crushed

 

i do just fine as rage, almost always top damage, 250k ish

 

but carnage i played 3 games and barely hit 180k

 

my force screams are barely getting me the 2.5k single hit medal, how are you getting 4k screams? yes, i have the 30% increased crit damage talent

 

i swear my screams were critting for just as much when i was rage

[Anbokr]

Is rage a viable levelling spec? I'm levelling as carnage atm, but I really feel like a change, annihilation or rage until I hit 40 and start warzoning?

[BrolleunHunter]

ive been rage since 34, anni at 30, and hadnt WZd as carnage since like 18

 

but swapped back tonight at 45 and im getting crushed

 

i do just fine as rage, almost always top damage, 250k ish

 

but carnage i played 3 games and barely hit 180k

 

my force screams are barely getting me the 2.5k single hit medal, how are you getting 4k screams? yes, i have the 30% increased crit damage talent

 

i swear my screams were critting for just as much when i was rage

 

Massacre + Gore + Scream = Profit. Procing blood frenzy with Massacre = Priceless.

[Reclusion]

Marauder is up no matter what u say 2 much cd on force leap and need more cc breaks hes melee and dont have heals he should do way more dmg and dmg dont mean much if anythin show screen with dmg and kills btw 50 merc from my guild does 600-700k dmg and he can heal and is ranged so mara needs some buff