The (Un)Official PVP venting thread.

[DainjaMouz]

Funny you should mention that. I've been noticing that as well, and assumed that was a mistake on the part of overeager noobs who just wanted to smash things. My intuitive response to the splitting up like that would be the thought that we'd be guaranteed to lose south and east would be retaken fairly quickly, leading to a loss.

 

I take it, though, that this actually is a good tactic? (I'm seriously asking here, by the way; not trying to be sarcastic, as I honestly don't know).

 

It's a good question. I'll give you my opinion, understanding that I am in no way claiming to be a SWTOR WZ tactical expert.

 

I was going to start with the pithy "there are no bad tactics", but that's untrue. There are some things you might try that just will not work against a skilled opponent. However, for the most part, the right question to ask is whether the tactic fits the situation. "Feint South" seems to be a useful tactic in NC *right now* because pretty much everyone is still conditioned to grind at the Southern node. If you've got the right class mix, and your opponent does what they've always done (i.e., "Mass South"), you can be pretty confident of gaining the element of surprise and the victory.

 

Eventually, smart players will catch onto the new tactic, and countertactics will be implemented. You make the best tactical choices you can to fit the situation, and hope for the best. This cat and mouse is exactly what fascinates me about PvP, and especially PvP in SWTOR. BW has done a pretty good job implementing a format where you benefit from making good tactical choices.

 

EDIT: when i say "right class mix", this tactic works best if you've got an Operative with Infiltrate. You want to give the clear impression the bulk of your team is headed South, and your Operative was just slow to mask your move. Once Infiltrate is cast, a couple of players (2 tanks preferably) hit the Southern node hard while a 5-player team sprints past to the opposing side node (as usual, you're going to send a single player to take and hold your own side node). If all goes according to plan, you're 5v1 at the opposing side node. Once opposing side is taken, your tanks disengage from South to shore up your own side node. I prefer to keep 5 on the opposing side node instead of 4 and 4, because your opponents immediate reaction is most often going to be to reclaim their own side node.

 

Like I said above, eventually smart players will catch on and devise countermeasures.

 

The trick to all of this is to keep counting. You may or may not be able to hold both side nodes for the entire match, although I find it easier than holding a side and South (BW designed the side nodes with better perimeter defenses than South). If you see that you've got 6-7 opponents dropping onto their side node and it looks unlikely you'll hold, it's time to beat a strategic retreat and hit them at South.

 

The biggest mistake n00bs make in objective-based WZs is not attacking in force. They'll dribble into a position one player at a time, kicking off a revolving door to the respawn. By the time they've arrived "in strength" at a specific node, they're generally too far behind in points to win the game. Even for a single-covered node, I want to send in at least three players (if the goal is to take it). This is because I expect that the minute they see us coming, they're going to be calling for reinforcements. I want to get the cover player ded and the node taken as quickly as possible, so my teammates can turn around and get into defensive positions. If we just need a distraction to pull opponents off another objective, I'd send in less.

 

Anyway, hope this helps.

Edited November 10, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[DainjaMouz]

I have to point out, that your assumption - that everyone who isn't competitive in pvp likes pve - is wrong, at least as long as we are talking about me. I also think, that if we compare things like operations and flashpoints to warzones, warzones are much more interesting. I'd rather be good at pvp than good at endgame pve (or lowbie flashpoints).

But.

 

There's one thing in pve that I put before everything else in the game and the main reason I even play this, and that's the stories. Class stories and companion storylines, mainly, but many other storylines can be interesting, too. And endgame seems to have very little stories to offer, at least without gear grinding (looking at you, operations!). So, I spend most of my time leveling, and a lot of that time in lowbies.

Saying that I don't want to be good in pvp isn't exactly true. I do want to develop as a player, but I think there's more than just learning your rotation or gearing your character in pvp. I believe that even if the match was totally uneven, you can still learn from it. And if you don't, there will be another match, and I don't think it's something worth getting upset about.

 

 

Anyway, at least in Red Eclipse, the arenas seemed to wake up the good players in endgame pvp - as in a week before arenas, there were warzones where top damage was something like 400k, but after it, you started to see those 600k - 1 million high damage numbers pretty often.

 

I hear you on all counts. I got a kick out of levelling my sniper to 55, even tho I rushed thru it. From what I've heard from others, I hear it's one of the better storylines in SWTOR. My sentinel alt is the toon that I'm levelling (at a more reasonable pace) with my son.

 

I think arenas are a great addition to PvP, and will continue to get better as people figure out how to play them. I started out HATING tatooine because the opportunities to find cover at distance are nil. Now, I'm actually starting to enjoy it more because it forced me to lose the "lazy sniper" habit (too much acting like a stationary turret) and learn how to move effectively.

 

I do think it was a TERRIBLE decision on BW's part to drop 8v8 from the ranked queues. There should be variety on the ranked side, just like unranked, so careerists that happen to like the format have an option to unranked.

[knownastherat]

^^^ Thank you for a serious response, instead of some blather about the popularity of WoW, Marilyn Manson, ancient Greece and the Social Factor.

 

[snip]

 

 

You understood nothing.

[Sideblaze]

I'm back, Got jumped on by a deception sin, Died instantly. Reminded me of launch operatives. I need a new keyboard.

[DainjaMouz]

You understood nothing.

 

Actually, I think you'd be surprised how much I understood, even if I don't have a 137 IQ.

[DainjaMouz]

So I guess another vent I currently have with PvP is the scoring voodoo in pylons. Seriously, it seems pretty arbitrary. Orb capture seems pretty meaningless. You don't seem to get any sort of lift for holding both pylons simultaneously. Kills are supposed to improve your score, but it's unclear what the calculation is. In addition, each pylon reset has a increasing bonus multiplier (x1, x2, x3). You would think this would help a team close the gap in later rounds if their first round was a loss, but I've never seen it work. All in all, it's completely unclear where I should be focusing effort when in order to maximize team score.

 

I'm sure the post immediately below this one will be a link to a resource explaining the pylon scoring system. If so, thanks in advance!

 

EDIT: Thought I'd do some self-service, and this is the best resource I've found on scoring. Obviously, I'm not the only person confused. It shouldn't take someone analyzing WZ video to sort this thing out.

Edited November 11, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[vennian]

What bothers me is the fact that I am always drawn to the pvp classes that are perceived to be weaker or less popular.

Why do I do this to myself?

 

Me too. And we do it because we are unique snowflakes

 

Naeh, I think I do it because I find it interesting seeing what I can do with an "underpowered" class.

[Ridickilis]

Just thought I'd say, as I know you were all waiting with baited breath , I picked up three mk-9 aug kits @75k each + 3 blue 55 augments @11k each + 36k installation x3 (this is the one that gets me, it's absurdly high price to pay an NPC and not another player for their time to craft such an item but w/e). So for roughly 375k I got three pieces augmented. Now that I can put a time value on it, It's not quite the the root canal I thought it would be.

 

Now 2 hours of the level 50 dalies a night should get me at least 375k, two more nights and I'll have all my clothes, MH and OH auged, that will just leave my ear, implants and relics un-augged. What's your opinions on aug'ing those now? I'd would think it would be best to save the dough and wait till those are Obiron quality.

 

But then I saw a cool mount on sale for 200k and knew I still had to buy level III speedering for 150k. So I got those instead. HAHAHA j/k.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Ridickilis

[sithBracer]

Just thought I'd say, as I know you were all waiting with baited breath , I picked up three mk-9 aug kits @75k each + 3 blue 55 augments @11k each + 36k installation x3 (this is the one that gets me, it's absurdly high price to pay an NPC and not another player for their time to craft such an item but w/e). So for roughly 375k I got three pieces augmented. Now that I can put a time value on it, It's not quite the the root canal I thought it would be.

 

Now 2 hours of the level 50 dalies a night should get me at least 375k, two more nights and I'll have all my clothes, MH and OH auged, that will just leave my ear, implants and relics un-augged. What's your opinions on aug'ing those now? I'd would think it would be best to save the dough and wait till those are Obiron quality.

 

But then I saw a cool mount on sale for 200k and knew I still had to buy level III speedering for 150k. So I got those instead. HAHAHA j/k.

 

Yeah, don't augment those until you get the obroan pieces as it is a waste of money. This is usually the reason why people get those first. I personally get a matrix cube relic and augment that one-since I can use it anytime/anywhere-and maybe replace it last (I am still refusing to take advantage of that glitch ... for now).

Edited November 11, 2013 by sithBracer

[Technohic]

Just thought I'd say, as I know you were all waiting with baited breath , I picked up three mk-9 aug kits @75k each + 3 blue 55 augments @11k each + 36k installation x3 (this is the one that gets me, it's absurdly high to be given to an NPC and not another player for their time to craft such an item but w/e). So for roughly 375k I got three pieces augmented. Now that I can put a time value on it, It's not quite the the root canal I thought it would be.

 

Now 2 hours of the level 50 dalies a night should get me at least 375k, two more nights and I'll have all my clothes, MH and OH auged, that will just leave my ear, implants and relics un-augged. What's your opinions on aug'ing those now? I'd would think it would be best to save the dough and wait till those are Obiron quality.

 

But then I saw a cool mount on sale for 200k and knew I still had to buy level III speedering for 150k. So I got those instead. HAHAHA j/k.

 

I do dislike the cost they have to add the augment after you already spent creds either crafting or acquiring them in the first place.

 

Just so you know; since I mentioned doing Illum in 20 minutes, I just want to say that if you do not have more than one ~ level 50 plus; I wouldn't limit to just Illum. Black Hole and Section X have good payouts as well. I just have 6 toons available and prefer Illum as there is less travel time than on Section X, and less people to contend with than Black Hole.

[Ridickilis]

Yeah I have multiple (old) 50's but I never really got into the daily grind thingy. I did it casually on a couple of my first 50's in between pvp pops but never made it out of Illum or Belsavis (the non-section x area) in one sitting before I had to log for the night. I'll probably be somewhat slow still till I do it a few times but yeah gonna check those area's out. I still can't believe I've been in the game since launch and still haven't seen Sec. X or BH!

 

Thanks sithBracer, that's what I thought.

[DainjaMouz]

<SNIP>But then I saw a cool mount on sale for 200k and knew I still had to buy level III speedering for 150k. So I got those instead. HAHAHA j/k.

 

Ok, so you got me to chuckle on a Monday morning, and I hadn't even finished my coffee.

 

Back when I was scrounging for credits to buy augs, I was also feeling a bit embarrassed with my lvl55 sniper still riding around on the pink speeder they sell in the cartel market. Since I didn't want to spend credits on a better one, I spent a week digging up parts in the Outlaw's Den (between PvP matches) to build one. What was funny is that during that time, I dug up FOUR DREADSEED HELMETS. Now, I actually happen to like the Dreadseed designs, but I don't need four of the things (esp. since they bind to legacy). What was aggravating was that they BIND ON PICKUP, so I couldn't sell them on GTN, and the game only pays you 30 credits for the thing.

 

The other funny thing about the entire effort is that I discovered that it's apparently uncool to attack someone in the Outlaw's Den. I've been griefed on several occasions for initiating a fight in a dedicated PvP area. And no, I'm not beating on lowbies (which IS uncool). These are other lvl55s who should be able to handle it.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Poor brazilian and argentinian teams, they play barefooted. But anyway it doesnt take very long (a week with a couple of hours of play?) to get decently geared nowadays.

 

I believe that you are quite out of touch with Reality.

 

Next thing you are going to tell me that Brazilian participanbts of the America's Cup can have a fairly good, competitive boat for the America's Cup within a month.

 

Do a Sanity Check, please.

[L-RANDLE]

Now 2 hours of the level 50 dalies a night should get me at least 375k, two more nights and I'll have all my clothes, MH and OH auged, that will just leave my ear, implants and relics un-augged. What's your opinions on aug'ing those now? I'd would think it would be best to save the dough and wait till those are Obiron quality.

 

But then I saw a cool mount on sale for 200k and knew I still had to buy level III speedering for 150k. So I got those instead. HAHAHA j/k.

Get crafted purple 54 implants and ears if you can. You can augment them immediately and have better stats than Conq in WZs. Use pvp comms to buy relics...

Edit: FYI these are not better just because you augment them, their base stats + bolster exceed Conq, even without an augment present. Truth be told, they are actually on par with Obroan...

Edited November 11, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[DainjaMouz]

Now 2 hours of the level 50 dalies a night should get me at least 375k, two more nights and I'll have all my clothes, MH and OH auged, that will just leave my ear, implants and relics un-augged. What's your opinions on aug'ing those now? I'd would think it would be best to save the dough and wait till those are Obiron quality.

 

I know you've probably thought of this, so apologies in advance. But, please be sure you're attaching your MK-9s to orange shells and moving your Obroan parts into them. The per setpiece cost of ripping components and moving them is dramatically cheaper than buying and installing MK-9s in new gear.

 

Also, IMO the Obroan gear is butt-ugly.

[sithBracer]

Get crafted purple 54 implants and ears if you can. You can augment them immediately and have better stats than Conq in WZs. Use pvp comms to buy relics...

 

Are you sure those are better? What stats are you getting from those compared to obroan? Also don't you lose expertise for those?

[sithBracer]

Also, IMO the Obroan gear is butt-ugly.

 

Still looks better than conqueror's gear. I like how the war hero's gear looked.

[Sangrar]

Still looks better than conqueror's gear. I like how the war hero's gear looked.

 

your kidding me, you think conqueror looks worse than Obroan!! that cheap excuse with a cheap recoloring, no difference between faction sets other than color, and a pve theme that has no place at all in pvp! The first time I saw it I wondered if my subscriber dollars were going to paying for the design teams vacation!

Edited November 11, 2013 by Sangrar

[DainjaMouz]

Still looks better than conqueror's gear. I like how the war hero's gear looked.

Fair enough. When Partisan gear got downgraded with 2.4, I hung onto most of the pieces to use as shells since it's a pretty good look for my sniper.

Edited November 11, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[Theagg]

OT: Rep side on Red Eq.

 

From yesterday:

- 2nd room in Voidstar: I die ganking mara who prevents me cap the door, but he is on 100 HP and no cds (spent them on me and one other guy). I run out of spawn point - to see 4 - 4! - of my team mates in front of CLEAR DOOR, enemies mostly on other door and in spawn point.

AND THEY DO NOT CAP, but prepare for enemies to come!

 

- Alderaan: A sage DPS comes with me to cap the left turret. I tell him, b4 speeders, that he goes to cap (force speed) and I will move front to intercept incs. Good tactics - assassin goes out way, I engage him. He stops, gets me up with wind and moves to turret. He looses bout 5 secs in that - more than enough for a sage to cap and prepare to attack...

EXCEPT THERE WAS NO SAGE! HE WENT TO MIDDLE!

.

 

wonder if that was the Civil war I was in yesterday, in which I did read pretty much those opening tactics being given in chat. One thing I always do if running intercept left and around to mid, is always look left to see if the guy who is supposedly heading to cap left is actually there and also hang on and keep an eye on the cap, to check on potential stealther interrupts, before I continue on round to mid.

 

Remember when exiting spawn, always look left, don't assume its a free node. That's the Civil War Code.

[DainjaMouz]

Are you sure those are better? What stats are you getting from those compared to obroan? Also don't you lose expertise for those?

 

The OP on this thread does a good job of explaining when / where purple PvE 53s/54s are better for you than PvP gear. Basically, expertise doesn't come into play until you have the PvP set bonus.

[Sideblaze]

This thread does not have my permission to die.

[Baron_Samedi]

Get crafted purple 54 implants and ears if you can. You can augment them immediately and have better stats than Conq in WZs. Use pvp comms to buy relics...

Edit: FYI these are not better just because you augment them, their base stats + bolster exceed Conq, even without an augment present. Truth be told, they are actually on par with Obroan...

 

Would you say that Oricon impl (x2) + Orion EP, augmented on 28 (Advanced Might all), for Guardian (with +6%) - are better than augmented Conqueror impl (x2) + Conqueror EP?

 

What about expertise?

 

Also, have Obroan Mainhand and Obroan Offhand - you think I should change them?

 

Pls some help, I suck at theorycrafting.

[DainjaMouz]

Ok, last night in Civil War. We grab snow early, and I'm left in solo coverage. Then, by some amazing stroke of luck, we grab grass. We've got both sides within the first minute, which is obviously a delicate defensive position. The ops lead and I are typing like mad over chat "split and defend....SPLIT AND DEFEND". You already see where this is headed--I watch all of the cute purple icons on my map (save myself and a lone defender--the Ops Lead--on grass) peel off and head for a smashfest at mid. A minute later, we were down all three turrets.

 

Seems like the only time some people want to defend is when the WZ is obviously lost, and then only because they're hoping to pick up a few defender commendations for standing around.

Edited November 13, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[Technohic]

So Im there on my scoundrel, healing and on defense, head east and sitting there cloacked get ready to heal a target when I look and see one of our gunslingers 5m in front of the door while there is someone about half capping straight behind them.

 

 

I just fire a shot to interrupt then type "Look behind you snipe." A moment later, the enemy plants at the other door with 3 of our guys there.