Jedi Shadow - DPS Rotation

[Jesstarian]

Kitru can you post up your skill tree so i can see how you've specialised?

 

cheers

[Kitru]

This is the Inf spec I generally recommend. It's designed for PvE rather than PvP. For PvP, you'd want to yank the points out of Situational Awareness and put 'em into Subduing Techniques or Misdirection.

[dronepilot]

Rotation: Stealth - Shadow Strike > Low Slash, Project > Clairvoyant strike X2 > Stun > find weakness > if below 30% Spinning strike or low slash. If not repeat rotation from Low slash, (not in stealth) then Clairvoyant strike X2 (or use Project) and so on as written. Repeat and wash. I also use Shadow Technique. You can if the target is stunned attempt to use a shadow strike again, but the angle some times throws this off, and it doesn't contact properly. You can also include an interrupt if they wake up too early, to stop them casting. But I wouldn't go to use Force wave as an interrupt on that. Edited February 8, 2012 by dronepilot

[Shardie]

When I was playing Infiltration (which was alot of fun!) I started (from stealth) with spinning kick, Clayvoyant Strike x 2 (Double Strike), Project (repeat), and when I had a full lot of that buff that buffs Force Breach, Force Breach itself (even though some say hit Force Breach every time, thats what I did, seemed a waste not stacking that proc to max). When Find Weakness proced, I'd hit Low Kick, move a little ahead then hit Shadow Strike.

 

To bad the survivability sucked; so back to boring double strike spam Kinetic while I level up.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Shardie

[SvnStrSlm]

2/31/8

Stealth

Force Breach

CS x2

Project

That is the simple rotation. Any time find weakness is up use shadow strike. Sprinkle in stuns and what not as need for positioning and agro control. I use for e breach first because of the longer cool down and it gives time for exit strategy to build. Im still debating dropping exit strategy for reduce force breach cool down.

[thefishdude]

Large amounts of math have been done to demonstrate that Force Breach is best used on CD rather than waiting for Exit Strategy stacks. Force Breach hits exceptionally hard and ignores pretty much every defense players and NPCs have, so the listed damage and real damage are substantially closer in practice than those of all of your other attacks.

 

 

I cannot agree with this more. Very seldom do I wait for 5 stacks of Exit Strategy before popping FB. It just hits too hard for the cost.

 

Until we get Damage Meters, If we ever do? All of this is Hearsay and not Proven at all.

 

Not everything in life needs to be mathematically proven before it's true. Someone with experience at a job (or in this case a game ) knows a lot about that job and can explain the ends and out of it, but they probably can't give you the mathematics behind it. Doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

So, in the case, I'm lvl 58 valor (i.e. lots of pvp experience) and I can say without a doubt that opening with an non-proc shadow strike is worse than using Clair x2>Project. There's less damage vs the cost. You can tell me I'm wrong all you want and feel free to continue opening with Shadow Strike, because you paid for the game.....just don't get upset once you actually see the math and it proves our point.

[KilmarFyrewynd]

I do similar to thefishdude. Stealth -> Spin kick -> 2xCS -> Upheaval -> FB -> pop blackout and every offensive skill -> Low Slash -> Shadow Strike -> if less than 30% health, Spinning Strike. If not 30% health, then it's a juggernaut, so run away.

[oddmyth]

So, in the case, I'm lvl 58 valor (i.e. lots of pvp experience) and I can say without a doubt that opening with an non-proc shadow strike is worse than using Clair x2>Project. There's less damage vs the cost. You can tell me I'm wrong all you want and feel free to continue opening with Shadow Strike, because you paid for the game.....just don't get upset once you actually see the math and it proves our point.

 

I find these Shadow Strike opener posts hilarious.

Without the proc Shadow Strike *might* hit for 1.8k, if you have a high crit rate maybe 2.4k crit (remember no proc, no 50% arpen).

 

My CS already hits for 1.8k base and I can get two of those off before the target can react after Spinning Kick. That's 3.6k damage *at least*, set bonuses put CS crit rate through the roof so it's easily 4k damage for the same force cost as one Shadow Strike without FW proc.

 

Then my next project is already buffed 30% and I've already got a couple stacks of Exit Strategy and quite possibly a FW proc.

 

Not opening with CS (or for Kinetics DS) is just not playing your force efficiently. You will still have your opponent in a heal deficit within 4 GCD's, difference being, you will still have force left to finish them off without being stupid with your Blackout CD.

[oddmyth]

If not 30% health, then it's a juggernaut, so run away.

 

Hilarious.

[thefishdude]

... then it's a juggernaut, so run away.

 

 

Too funny, because I've been there. My favorite is to hit them with force stun and then force lift...THEN I run away.

Edited February 8, 2012 by thefishdude

[ComputerSaidNo]

This is the Inf spec I generally recommend. It's designed for PvE rather than PvP. For PvP, you'd want to yank the points out of Situational Awareness and put 'em into Subduing Techniques or Misdirection.

 

I thought you needed the whole row where Situational Awareness was in order to get Exit Strategy and CS? The reason why I point this out is because I was curious to see what your PVP build would look like?

[oddmyth]

I thought you needed the whole row where Situational Awareness was in order to get Exit Strategy and CS? The reason why I point this out is because I was curious to see what your PVP build would look like?

 

No you just need to spend 5 points per tier, but you can spend them in lower tiers as well.

 

(ie. to move past the 4th tier you need to spend 20 points in the tree.).

[ComputerSaidNo]

Thank you, I never completely understood the rules to progress though the tree

[Amos_Umbra]

Kitru, I'm curious as to why you have 2 points in technique mastery insted of applied force. Is the AP applied across the board while in shadow technique or have you found that the AP pays off more than the 6% damage increase of our main spam ability?

[Hydurz]

you easily break 500k dmg in a warzone with balance

 

 

infil CANNOT DO THAT

 

 

 

Infil Is > Balance at pvp due to control(lowslash) and the ability to burst ( NOT DPS)

[oddmyth]

Kitru, I'm curious as to why you have 2 points in technique mastery insted of applied force. Is the AP applied across the board while in shadow technique or have you found that the AP pays off more than the 6% damage increase of our main spam ability?

 

See Powerr's PVP burst thread.

 

6% arpen applies to CS, Shadow Strike and Spinning Strike.

6% CS damage applies to CS.

[General_Koala]

As Kinetic, you want to open with Project.

 

The reason is that you don't get a Particle Acceleration Proc unless it's on cooldown.

[trakata]

What? That's just not true. PA proc wipes out the cooldown, but Project doesn't have to be on cooldown to get the proc. I never use Project without the PA proc, and it always comes up for me.

[TheREALKyias]

An analogy comes to mind here:

 

Arguing with Kitru about Shadow rotation is like arguing with God. It doesn't matter what you think, you're just plain wrong.

 

 

Shadow strike is 100% inefficient without the proc. Anyone who says otherwise simply hasn't played the class long enough to know better, simply likes the animation or thinks because it has "shadow" in the name it must be uber.

 

Kitru is right, the fact Kitru has to DEFEND a PROVEN argument is just baffling to me.

 

Do NOT mislead new players on skill rotations it's just bad form.

[Kitru]

6% arpen applies to CS, Shadow Strike and Spinning Strike.

6% CS damage applies to CS.

 

It also applies to Project since Project deals kinetic damage (which is mitigated by armor). There isn't any hard math to support it, but my guess is that a 6% increase to a single one of your attacks is lower than a decrease in mitigation on all but one of those attacks.

 

Here's my logic with some numbers and some basic assumptions (FB>CS>CS>Proj>SS>CS>CS>Proj is the attack string for those that don't know):

 

CS is roughly 50% of the attack string but only 20-30% of the damage since it is the lowest damage attack *within* that string for a total increase of 1.2-1.8% total damage dealt. 6% arpen applies to about 85% of your outgoing damage (the only non-kinetic sources of damage are Shadow Technique and Force Breach). Using the anecdotal numbers I've gotten from the Find Weakness arpen contribution (50% arpen roughly equals a 20% increase in damage for a .4 effective contribution ratio), 6% arpen would equate to a ~2% increase in damage (.85 damage * .06 arpen * .4 arpen-to-damage conversion ratio).

[Vyruzvetrix]

For a sustained dps rotation (as infiltration):

 

Start from stealth, open with:

 

2x clairvoyance

Project

Breach

Shadow strike (only when find weakness procs)

 

From there on, it becomes a priority system. Always use force breach as soon as it's up. Use shadow strike if the find weakness proc will run out before the extra damage on project. Otherwise, project only after 2x clairvoyance has been done.

 

When everything else is on cooldown, use your basic assault to build exit stratergy stacks for Breach. The only reason why I would say not to open with breach is because you could potentially gain a few stacks of exit stratergy before you use it the first time, causing it to hit harder.

 

Use blackout early on to get the 6 seconds of extra force regen, and so its back off cooldown possibly for use twice or more (during boss fights). Additionally, you can vanish and attack again immediately to gain another 6 seconds of extra force regen.

 

Activate force potency for when breach comes active after the inital use. The reason for this is because you will have around 4-5 stacks of exit stratergy, maximising the bonus damage.

 

I would never recomend using shadow strike without find weakness. You are better off saving the force for a proc or another ability rather than starving yourself of force. Realistically, if you're doing everything right, you'll never have spare force for doing this anyways (unless you're in a boss fight requiring lots of movement).

[healzcomin]

reading this makes me see why shadows will never get nerfed

[Amos_Umbra]

snip

 

Appreciate the insight and the response.

[apatah]

Shadow strike is 100% inefficient without the proc.

This statement is the most misleading information E V E R. Now granted, SS is defintely less effective w/out the proc (about 1/2 the damage it does with the proc), it is by no means 100% inefficient. If what you stated were true, SS would do no damage and be utterly useless.

[apatah]

CS is roughly 50% of the attack string but only 20-30% of the damage since it is the lowest damage attack *within* that string for a total increase of 1.2-1.8% total damage dealt. 6% arpen applies to about 85% of your outgoing damage (the only non-kinetic sources of damage are Shadow Technique and Force Breach). Using the anecdotal numbers I've gotten from the Find Weakness arpen contribution (50% arpen roughly equals a 20% increase in damage for a .4 effective contribution ratio), 6% arpen would equate to a ~2% increase in damage (.85 damage * .06 arpen * .4 arpen-to-damage conversion ratio).

Curious, so wouldn't the 9% be more prudent to have active? Or is that 3% neglible?

 

I always looked at a permanent 9% armor penetration to be better than a 45% change to proc an additional hit @ 50% of it's damage. Or am misunderstanding the numbers?

Edited February 9, 2012 by apatah