pyro, recent changes have helped but..

[prophaet]

i have a simple question to why TD and IM's range was reduced to 10 meters, i understand that they are supposedly a melee class but i ask again leth OPs have both corrosive grenade and corrosive dart that are both 30m, much stronger dots and CG is aoe, and operative are just as much melee if not more than PTs, I rolled a PT during early access because the thought of being able to dps at range as well as in melee was really appealing. I suppose that they don't necessarily need this, (although I, and I'm sure most of the other original pyros would like this to be returned). On another subject is CGC IM and TD dots, compared to the other dot classes, pyros dots are doing nothing but making railshot available.

 

any insight, or more info from the community would be appreciated, as well as those who will say that i'm complete and utterly wrong, feel free to. thanks.

[TheronFett]

Operative Lethality attacks are limited to melee range. However, the same attacks for Snipers are not. Kind of works the same for PT/Merc.

 

Pyro is a lot more difficult than it was in the old days. Players are smarter now and cleanse the DoTs.

Edited October 30, 2013 by TheronFett

[DAMossimo]

Same with the recent changes to AP; while they helped a little, it was not nearly enough to bring them in line with other dps classes - at least as far as PvE raiding in concerned.

 

Seems we can't get an audience atm. Eric stated that certain classes (that aren't being changed in 2.5) should discuss issues in thier class sub-forums, but Powertechs were conspicuously left off the list. Apparently, the slight buffs/nerfs in 2.4 is all we can expect to see until well after 2.6 which will come out sometime next year.

 

I'm currently stocking up on moth-balls to keep my PT fresh for what may be a long sabbatical. I'm not going to drag my raid team through the mud with my DPS PT much longer...

[Ottoattack]

Same with the recent changes to AP; while they helped a little, it was not nearly enough to bring them in line with other dps classes - at least as far as PvE raiding in concerned.

 

Seems we can't get an audience atm. Eric stated that certain classes (that aren't being changed in 2.5) should discuss issues in thier class sub-forums, but Powertechs were conspicuously left off the list. Apparently, the slight buffs/nerfs in 2.4 is all we can expect to see until well after 2.6 which will come out sometime next year.

 

I'm currently stocking up on moth-balls to keep my PT fresh for what may be a long sabbatical. I'm not going to drag my raid team through the mud with my DPS PT much longer...

 

From PvP perspective AP PT is one of the top dpsing specs in terms of output and mechanics. Pyro is still behind. At this point, I highly doubt AP will get any sort of buffs, but pyro might.

[Brunner_Venda]

Pyro PT will only get buffs if shared merc pyro skills are changed as well.

[DAMossimo]

From PvP perspective AP PT is one of the top dpsing specs in terms of output and mechanics. Pyro is still behind. At this point, I highly doubt AP will get any sort of buffs, but pyro might.

 

I agree, but the "mechanics" - meaning the utility a PT has, means close to nothing in raids. Bosses can't be stunned, grappled, or carbonized, and if you're doing your job correctly by staying out of red circles, the damage resistance of a PT is also of little value. No reason to take them raiding unless you enjoy working your butt off to parse 2800 dps while the drunken sniper in your group breaks 3200k with one hand as he is texting his girlfriend with the other.

 

There's pretty much no fix to the mess they are in, besides shelving them for another day when they are again worth adding to a progression raid team.

 

But if you PvP, you're golden with a PT. Go figure.

Edited October 30, 2013 by DAMossimo

[Brunner_Venda]

I hear pyro hybrids are still doing better than pure AP and pyro specs, which is LOL after the nerfs to that spec.

 

There is no defense with the pyro hybrid spec, but as you pointed out that's not necessary most of the time.

 

So 2/22/22 is still best for raiding?

[OlosBC]

I still main my pt. And I do better on him than on my sniper. Granted, pt has better gear, but not that much better. Maybe I just suck on the sniper, but I dunno.

 

I typically run hybrid for any fight with aoe (draxus, grobthok, corruptor, bestia, calphayus), and hybrid does excellent on aoe. For the rest I run pyro. Helps a lot in several fights being able to constantly move and DPS from 9.5m, especially on tyrans, raptus, and kiting raptus in council.

[hallucigenocide]

the range change was made to make more like a melee class wich it is supposed to be.. as for the dot damage it is where it needs to be.. if higher the class would be OP with the newly added defensive abilities,

pyro is in a good state atm(from a pvp perspective)

 

BW is still obsessed with hybrids even if they frown upon hybrid specs.. they sure like their hybrid taxing so if you got the ability to guard and taunt you should not be able to put out as much dps as a "pure dps" class.

[TheronFett]

the range change was made to make more like a melee class wich it is supposed to be..

 

NO.

Powertech was designed a ranged/melee hybrid. One of the major selling points on this class for me was touted since the very beginning. During development, Bounty Hunter was the first officially announced class, and they bragged about the mechanics of being a "ranged tank".

 

The range nerf was the biggest hit to this AC, as it completely redefined what it meant to be a Powertech. No other class nerfs have been this extreme. The idea of having a ranged weapon and animations, but being limited (mostly) to melee range is absurd. Really, I cant throw a thermal detonator or launch an incendiary round further than 4m?

[hallucigenocide]

NO.

Powertech was designed a ranged/melee hybrid. One of the major selling points on this class for me was touted since the very beginning. During development, Bounty Hunter was the first officially announced class, and they bragged about the mechanics of being a "ranged tank".

 

The range nerf was the biggest hit to this AC, as it completely redefined what it meant to be a Powertech. No other class nerfs have been this extreme. The idea of having a ranged weapon and animations, but being limited (mostly) to melee range is absurd. Really, I cant throw a thermal detonator or launch an incendiary round further than 4m?

 

ranged/melee = mid ranged pretty much.. it does not mean you can stand far away using pretty much the same things as a merc can.. not all pistols/rifles are designed for long range shooting. also do you really expect to be able to throw as long as you can shoot?

[TheronFett]

I can't speak for others of course, but the melee/ranged hybrid is why I initially rolled as a Powertech during beta, and made it my main character since early access. One of the biggest benefits to this class (was) being able to deal damage from all ranges. We had good abilities at both melee and distance...unlike typical ranged classes that deal crap damage @ melee range.

 

Our hybrid aspect was taken away from us, frankly, because of melee whiners. Every class has a gap closer now, so there's no excuse for this nerf to exist anymore. The argument was made that melee classes were 1/2 dead before they were able to even approach us. That is now a moot point.

[hallucigenocide]

I can't speak for others of course, but the melee/ranged hybrid is why I initially rolled as a Powertech during beta, and made it my main character since early access. One of the biggest benefits to this class (was) being able to deal damage from all ranges. We had good abilities at both melee and distance...unlike typical ranged classes that deal crap damage @ melee range.

 

Our hybrid aspect was taken away from us, frankly, because of melee whiners. Every class has a gap closer now, so there's no excuse for this nerf to exist anymore. The argument was made that melee classes were 1/2 dead before they were able to even approach us. That is now a moot point.

 

not exactly we can still remain outside melee range and dish out a ton of damage.. in fact there's really only one ability that requires melee range. so we're still hybrids when it comes to ranged/melee fighting.

[Ottoattack]

I agree, but the "mechanics" - meaning the utility a PT has, means close to nothing in raids. Bosses can't be stunned, grappled, or carbonized, and if you're doing your job correctly by staying out of red circles, the damage resistance of a PT is also of little value. No reason to take them raiding unless you enjoy working your butt off to parse 2800 dps while the drunken sniper in your group breaks 3200k with one hand as he is texting his girlfriend with the other.

 

There's pretty much no fix to the mess they are in, besides shelving them for another day when they are again worth adding to a progression raid team.

 

But if you PvP, you're golden with a PT. Go figure.

 

Mechanics means how you deliver the damage. In PvP this mean are you cast reliant or not. Can you be easily interrupted and kited. Again, from PvP perspective AP is one of the top specs; deal a lot of damage, good burst, very high mobility and good utility. The problem with AP right now is that it is where rage is. If they buff the damage output the spec will be ridiculously over powered in PvP, yet its not putting enough sustained damage in PvE.

 

Its is unfortunate, but do not expect any buffs or nerfs before 2.6.

[prophaet]

I can't speak for others of course, but the melee/ranged hybrid is why I initially rolled as a Powertech during beta, and made it my main character since early access. One of the biggest benefits to this class (was) being able to deal damage from all ranges. We had good abilities at both melee and distance...unlike typical ranged classes that deal crap damage @ melee range.

 

Our hybrid aspect was taken away from us, frankly, because of melee whiners. Every class has a gap closer now, so there's no excuse for this nerf to exist anymore. The argument was made that melee classes were 1/2 dead before they were able to even approach us. That is now a moot point.

I completely agree with this, I am right there with you, and our "gap closer" is on a much longer cooldown then say force charge and force speed. which i was fine before the range nerf on TD and IM, it mad perfect sense, "no real gap closer, so they start from range and move in" at least this was my thought. now if grapple is on CD there are little ways to close on a ranged dps if say knocked back, rooted, snared etc. so we have to rely on HO and grapple wich have much longer cds then any other movement ability in the game.

[TheronFett]

not exactly we can still remain outside melee range and dish out a ton of damage.. in fact there's really only one ability that requires melee range. so we're still hybrids when it comes to ranged/melee fighting.

 

You're arguing semantics and not practical application. Yes, on paper most of our abilities are "technically" just outside the boundary of melee range. However, due to server latency and other issues, we are for all intents and purposes, a melee class. You can't tell me with a straight face that you're able to consistently walk that fine line just outside of melee range.

[hallucigenocide]

You're arguing semantics and not practical application. Yes, on paper most of our abilities are "technically" just outside the boundary of melee range. However, due to server latency and other issues, we are for all intents and purposes, a melee class. You can't tell me with a straight face that you're able to consistently walk that fine line just outside of melee range.

 

no one can...

[OlosBC]

NO.

Powertech was designed a ranged/melee hybrid. One of the major selling points on this class for me was touted since the very beginning. During development, Bounty Hunter was the first officially announced class, and they bragged about the mechanics of being a "ranged tank".

 

The range nerf was the biggest hit to this AC, as it completely redefined what it meant to be a Powertech. No other class nerfs have been this extreme. The idea of having a ranged weapon and animations, but being limited (mostly) to melee range is absurd. Really, I cant throw a thermal detonator or launch an incendiary round further than 4m?

 

Don't know about you, but I can launch them up to 10m, rather than 4m.

[TheronFett]

Don't know about you, but I can launch them up to 10m, rather than 4m.

 

Again, you're missing the point. See my reply above. Melee range might as well be up to 10m. With server latency, you're never going to be able to skirt that fine line between 4m and 10m consistently. The minimum distance of leap is 15m (Annihilation/Watchman can reduce this range), which means we need to be able to operate in the 5-14m range to be the most effective against melee classes. 10-14m is more ideal, but again, that's a pretty fine line to walk.

[OlosBC]

Again, you're missing the point. See my reply above. Melee range might as well be up to 10m. With server latency, you're never going to be able to skirt that fine line between 4m and 10m consistently. The minimum distance of leap is 15m (Annihilation/Watchman can reduce this range), which means we need to be able to operate in the 5-14m range to be the most effective against melee classes. 10-14m is more ideal, but again, that's a pretty fine line to walk.

 

Leap min distance is 10m, not 14. Rage/focus gets a second leap with 10m max range.

 

Maybe you can't kite them 100% anymore, but that would be unbalanced anyway. Between hydraulic overrides and 6sec snare on flame burst, you should be able to keep enough of an advantage to still kill them.

[bigsexee]

Wish they would put the range back....its stupid 2 have a MISSLE that only goes 10m and on top of that I cant toss a nade more then 10m also....so it seems powertech's throw like girls....even the males

[AMNTitan]

i hear more complaining about the poor pt. what more do you want? what cant they do? they should be debuffed! so pathetic about pt complaining. they are so op in pvp (1v1) that its making the game not fun to even play

[Never_Hesitate]

i hear more complaining about the poor pt. what more do you want? what cant they do? they should be debuffed! so pathetic about pt complaining. they are so op in pvp (1v1) that its making the game not fun to even play

 

I think the spec you're talking about is the shield tech hybrid (if I picked that up right from the pvp threads) and not the pyrotech