The REAL Most Powerful Sith Lightsaber Duelists

[Kaedusz]

Really, what combat feats we have seen from Traya?

 

 

You must look upon these characters as if they were real people ,not as if they were a card in a card game with abilities written on the back.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

Since when is draining three Jeid masters ever impressive? A weakling like Alema keto was able to summon sith sorcery on a level that consumed half the republic fleet yet be a terrible combatant.

I don't remember Aleema Keto ever consuming anything at all, I think you are mistaking Force drain for Force illusions - as you can imagine there is no comparison.

 

On the other hand we have Darth Bane relying on a dark side nexus to perform Force drain, and we have Darth Nihilus - a practical force of nature - using this ability through his unspeakable power in the Force.

 

Force drain is not some low-level parlour trick and there is no evidence to suggest it is.

 

On the topic of Darth Nihilus, Darth Malgus wouldn't stand a chance against him. Heck even Darth Sidious himself would struggle to overcome him. He wields a vast amount of power, he tore the Ravager from the surface of Malachor V, a planet crushed by extreme gravitational force, he consumed an entire planet in an instant, and he presence extended across the entire galaxy. Obviously against that kind of power Traya could not resist. Very few could.

 

But if you have evidence to suggest that Malgus can rip battlecruisers from the surface of planets then by all means present it. However it would be fabricated because that is far far beyond Malgus' capabilities

 

P.S. Lack of showings in the Force is not an argument against a character, it just means we have to look more closely at the showings we do have. Don't underestimate Traya simply because she hasn't been in a fancy cinematic.

 

EDIT: On the topic of Force speed, Traya was extremely proficient in it.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

And Traya was taken out by a single force push before getting her powers stripped off..... Malgus has effectively proven that he is the superior combatant both in the force and in lightsaber combat.

So why didn't Malgus pound Zallow's apprentice into the ground? Heck why didn't he utterly destroy Zallow himself? If Traya is capable of absolutely dominating the likes of Darth Sion and the Jedi High Council then Malgus would have had no trouble with these individuals, and yet he did.

 

How do you explain that? And no, Sion and the High Council are not weak, they are very powerful.

[tunewalker]

So why didn't Malgus pound Zallow's apprentice into the ground? Heck why didn't he utterly destroy Zallow himself? If Traya is capable of absolutely dominating the likes of Darth Sion and the Jedi High Council then Malgus would have had no trouble with these individuals, and yet he did.

 

How do you explain that? And no, Sion and the High Council are not weak, they are very powerful.

 

but you assume that Zallow is weaker then Sion no proof of that really its very possibly Zallow was stronger then Sion.

 

 

 

Also shouldn't this debate be moved into the most powerful sith list instead of duelist. I highly doubt any one would argue traya gets into this list.

 

 

Speaking of out of context debates.... when are you going to call AoW vs KV.

Edited October 21, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

Darth Nihilus has to be one. He is not only a wound in the force but, his power is so great in the dark side, it is said his very speech weakens and can kill, and all around him become slaves to his will. We are talking about someone who drained an entite planet of life with one power. He could obviously duel well, he wouldnt have made it to Dark Lord in he couldnt, but the point is he could kill most before they even come close to him as his very aura is death. He won a battle or War without fighting. While this may not be eaborate or imaginative, it is a masterful representation of the art of War and achieves its zenith: to defeat an enemy without fighting.

This is a list concerning lightsaber duelists, see here for the list concerning Sith Force Users. However while I recognise Nihilus' immense power he is not being considered for two reasons.

 

1. He is not a coporeal being, but essentially a spirit - non-coporeal beings such as that do not qualify for the list.

 

2. His power is entirely dependent in the wound in the Force present inside him, which makes it impossible to determine how powerful he actually is and therefore place him on this list.

 

Nihilus is just too difficult to pin down.

[Beniboybling]

but you assume that Zallow is weaker then Sion no proof of that really its very possibly Zallow was stronger then Sion.

Not a chance. Darth Sion was able to keep himself from dying and hold his destroyed body together through sheer power in the Force. I don't believe for a second that Zallow achieved that kind of power, else he'd have been cracking some serious skulls during the Great Galactic War. He'd certainly be on the Jedi High Council.

 

Really I think Sion is too often low-balled, he is very very powerful. We point to Malgus' and Vader's Force rage as a sign of their power - but Sion trumps them all and then some. Someone who can become invincible in the midst of a dark side nexus is nothing to be scoffed at. I think people erroneously assume that its just some kind of parlour trick.

 

But its nothing short of a display of raw power. Which is why on top of this suggestion I suggested that we should reconsider Sion for the Most Powerful Sith list - I reckon he could give Darth Bane a run for his money.

 

P.S. Regardless we then have to assert that Sion is weaker than Zallow's apprentice, and that random Zabrak Jedi on Alderaan - and I really don't think that's a possible statement to support.

[Beniboybling]

Speaking of out of context debates.... when are you going to call AoW vs KV.

http://cdn.meme.li/i/p6dkw.jpg

[tunewalker]

Not a chance. Darth Sion was able to keep himself from dying and hold his destroyed body together through sheer power in the Force. I don't believe for a second that Zallow achieved that kind of power, else he'd have been cracking some serious skulls during the Great Galactic War. He'd certainly be on the Jedi High Council.

 

Really I think Sion is too often low-balled, he is very very powerful. We point to Malgus' and Vader's Force rage as a sign of their power - but Sion trumps them all and then some. Someone who can become invincible in the midst of a dark side nexus is nothing to be scoffed at. I think people erroneously assume that its just some kind of parlour trick.

 

But its nothing short of a display of raw power. Which is why on top of this suggestion I suggested that we should reconsider Sion for the Most Powerful Sith list - I reckon he could give Darth Bane a run for his money.

 

P.S. Regardless we then have to assert that Sion is weaker than Zallow's apprentice, and that random Zabrak Jedi on Alderaan - and I really don't think that's a possible statement to support.

 

Well as far as I can tell Sion's ability was a bit of a parlor trick. Vader could have done the same if only he could hold onto his rage. Same for any sith. Just about any one capable of healing full body wounds can do what sion did with the dark side as long as they can always hold onto their rage, at least that's the way Shadow's of the empire and Wookie paints it. Just healing full body wounds with the dark side for 10 seconds takes as much raw power as for 10 years its just how long can you keep yourself angry, the issue there isn't power in the force but power of Will which I feel is different again this is my own interpretation of it based on the way its talked about in some sources.

[Beniboybling]

Well as far as I can tell Sion's ability was a bit of a parlor trick. Vader could have done the same if only he could hold onto his rage. Same for any sith. Just about any one capable of healing full body wounds can do what sion did with the dark side as long as they can always hold onto their rage, at least that's the way Shadow's of the empire and Wookie paints it. Just healing full body wounds with the dark side for 10 seconds takes as much raw power as for 10 years its just how long can you keep yourself angry, the issue there isn't power in the force but power of Will which I feel is different again this is my own interpretation of it based on the way its talked about in some sources.

Take another look at Sion's body wounds.

 

I see where you are coming from and what your saying is interesting but I don't feel any old Sith would be capable of overcoming such extensive damage. Vader is no random Sith, he's one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever - I don't feel anybody with a lesser amount of power would have had enough strength to do what Vader did.

 

Because its an assumption that just anyone can heal those kind of wounds, they can't. Saba Sebatyne had to enter a healing trance to recover from her grievous injuries. And Master Fay was only capable of healing her mortal injuries through her immense strength in the Force. I don't believe just anyone would have been capable of that.

 

And Sion's injuries are even worse, his bones are fractured a hundred times over and then some - he's got innumerable scars all over his body and god knows how many internal injuries and ruptures. Yet he still functions without any aid at all, he still functions despite being dead.

 

I don't think any old Sith can resurrect corpses.

 

Nor do I feel Traya would have chosen any old Sith to be her apprentice.

 

And I certainly don't believe Sion, or the members of the Jedi High Council, to be weaker than Zallow's apprentice.

 

And finally power of will is no different to power in the Force. They are not mutually exclusive, all will/anger/rage etc. is is a means of unlocking one's Force power. If that power isn't there then it doesn't matter how angry you are.

 

EDIT: Essentially all this argument negates here is duration, which I accept, but in the end to heal these wounds in the first place you need raw power. Or any Sith who could get angry and stay angry could become immortal.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Makoto_Shishio]

I don't remember Aleema Keto ever consuming anything at all, I think you are mistaking Force drain for Force illusions - as you can imagine there is no comparison.

You don't get my point so you? I'm arguing that just because someone displays fancy powers, doesn't neccesarily mean they are a great combatant.

 

A fully consistent and great combatant would usually mean a combination of physical combat prowess, lightsaber skills, and displays of force mastery.

 

For example, Luke Skywalker at his peak(NJO) has never demonstrated any powers on a scale to rival that of Sidious, Vitiate or Nihilus, yet he is considered my many of us to be the most powerful Jedi and greatest combatant amongst all the jedi/sith in sw history considering his unmatched skills in lightsaber combat, force mastery and raw power.

 

Traya has not demonstrated any noteworthy feats in combat, her skills in saber combat are completely unknown and all she has is her force drain which killed 3 nobodies.

 

 

 

 

On the other hand we have Darth Bane relying on a dark side nexus to perform Force drain, and we have Darth Nihilus - a practical force of nature - using this ability through his unspeakable power in the Force.

And your point is? Am i disputing Nihilus here, or am i arguing about Traya's feats?

 

There's a misconception about Nihilus powers if you actually paid attention to the KOTOR2 game. His attack isn't the typical planet wide force drain as most of you guys make it out to be. The game logs/lore ingame and Traya actually state the nature of Nihilus powers is that its "A means of severing life from the force, and then feeding on the death it causes"(Kreia - KOTOR2 dialogue about Nihilus attacks).

 

It basically means he feeds off, or drains the force connection of all living things to the force.

 

Force drain is not some low-level parlour trick and there is no evidence to suggest it is.

Strawman argument, i never argued that it is some "low parlour trick".

On the topic of Darth Nihilus, Darth Malgus wouldn't stand a chance against him.

Nobodies arguing about Nihilus but you.

Heck even Darth Sidious himself would struggle to overcome him.

No he wouldn't.

He wields a vast amount of power,

So does Palpatine, Exar kun and plenty of top tier sith lords.

he tore the Ravager from the surface of Malachor V,

And yet with his so called impressive display of TK, he couldn't even subdue visas and mandalore, a non force user in battle and lost to the jedi exile. Inb4 "but cuz sh# is a f0rc3 wounD h3 w@z w3@k3ned".

 

 

 

Well guess what? Palpatine and numerous other force users(Luke,Obi wan etc etc) has demonstrated the ability to remove themselves from the force,(Fans call it the Fallanasi looping technique which the Fallanasi people developed) therefore making them immune to Nihilus attack because he cannot sense their presence or connection in the force and thus he cannot drain their force bond which allows them, or any skilled combatant in the force to get up close and defeat him in sheer combat.

 

 

he consumed an entire planet in an instant,

First, prove that he did it in an instant because if it was a really instantaneous power, he would have been able to traversed through star systems and easily "drain" any planets thus wiping out the galaxy in a short span of time.

 

Heck, Telos wasn't "drained" when Nihilus, so no, his powers aren't instantaneous.

and he presence extended across the entire galaxy.

And this is relevant in combat how?

Obviously against that kind of power Traya could not resist.

Which shows how weak she really is in full combat, considering that all it took was a simple force push from Nihilus which knocked her out before he blocked her force connection

 

 

 

But if you have evidence to suggest that Malgus can rip battlecruisers from the surface of planets then by all means present it. However it would be fabricated because that is far far beyond Malgus' capabilities

Your argument is flawed and stupid, it basically is "User A has not demonstrated feat X, User B has demonstrated X, therefore "A > B".

 

Sidious, Vitiate, and Luke skywalker have not demonstrated the ability to use TK on a scale to remove star ships on the surface, I guess that makes all of them significantly inferior to Nihilus right?

 

P.S. Lack of showings in the Force is not an argument against a character, it just means we have to look more closely at the showings we do have.

Showings that Traya has already been lackluster in. All we really have is Traya draining and killing 3 no named Jedi's.

 

Heck, Traya couldn't even beat the Jedi exile right in the core of a Dark Side Nexus which amplifies her power much greater than anywhere else and while wielding 3 telekinetic lightsabers.

 

Malgus has shown himself to be a superior lightsaber duelist(which Traya demonstrates non), great force mastery and an all rounded overall better combatant than Traya. So how is she above him? I have absolutely no idea.

Don't underestimate Traya simply because she hasn't been in a fancy cinematic.

See above.

EDIT: On the topic of Force speed, Traya was extremely proficient in it.

Show me a source which actually shows her demonstrating her "proficiency" in force speed. . I don't recall her doing in the Kotor 2 game.

[Makoto_Shishio]

Continued

 

So why didn't Malgus pound Zallow's apprentice into the ground?

So why didn't Traya pound the Jedi Exile into the ground? Despite having supposedly shown superior force powers?

Heck why didn't he utterly destroy Zallow himself?

HE DID destroy Zallow, if you're talking about Ven zallow, the guy who got killed in the cinematic.

If Traya is capable of absolutely dominating the likes of Darth Sion

Where has she demonstrated dominating over Sion? I don't recall her doing anything to him in K2

and the Jedi High Counci

Again, answer me how does draining 3 no named Jedi council members mean anything? Those 3 had absolutely zero feats or combat displays to their names.

l then Malgus would have had no trouble with these individuals, and yet he did.

What exactly No he wouldn't

How do you explain that? And no, Sion and the High Council are not weak, they are very powerful.

Prove the high council members she attacked were "very powerful", they have demonstrated jack squat.

[Beniboybling]

OK Makoto I can already see where this argument is headed, you've already resorted to insults and aggressive behavior so don't be surprised if I decide to break off this discussion. I'm not obliged to convince you of my opinions, this is a community thread and therefore the decision will be decided by the majority.

 

That said I will address a few misconceptions here.

 

Firstly I would advise that you read my post right before the OP, which contains information you are missing.

 

In particular

episode. After dispatching several Sith assassins Traya easily subdues Sion by Force choking him.

 

Given that we must assume that if Malgus is more powerful than Traya he would be capable of Force choking beings of equal and greater power in such an instant manner. Yet he is not.

 

He failed to subdue Ven Zallow in this manner and instead had to defeat him in lightsaber combat.

 

He failed to subdue Zallow's apprentice who he was also forced to engage in combat.

 

He failed to subdue an unnamed Zabrak Jedi on Alderaan who again he had to engage in combat.

 

Given that prior to both his duel with Zallow and his duel with the Zabrak Jedi he Force choked a Jedi without attacking them first in anyway, we have no reason to assume that if he could do this, he would refrain from doing so.

 

Yet he didn't, because he couldn't. And yet none of these Jedi are demonstrably more powerful than Darth Sion, and Traya would therefore be able to dominate them totally without raising a finger. What does that tell you? The only logical explanation I can think of is that Darth Traya is the superior Force user.

 

A few other things to note:

 

1. Darth Nihilus, as I demonstrated to you but you chose to dismiss, it immensely powerful which is why he subdued Traya so easily. He would have done the same to Malgus, he did the same to entire planets. And yes for the record it was instant. Its also likely that Nihilus severed her from the Force in tandem with this, making her incapable of resisting.

 

2. Meetra Surik is an incredibly powerful Jedi, and I believe her to be at least equal if not superior to Traya in terms of power. She is certainly more powerful than Zallow, Leener and the Zabrak Jedi. So I fail to see your point here.

 

3. High Jedi Council members are not nobodys - don't degrade your argument by saying such things. Obviously they are powerful else they never would have been appointed. Your tendency to dismiss characters because of lack of feats is illogical. They are Jedi Masters, by nature they are powerful. Don't treat characters like Pokemon cards.

 

4. Force drain is not like Sith Sorcery, it is an ability solely reliant on raw Force power.

 

5. Your attitude is pissing me off.

[Selenial]

Exile was immune to force drain.

 

Nihilus cut Traya off from the force. She was too powerful to face alone if he hadn't.

[Makoto_Shishio]

OK Makoto I can already see where this argument is headed, you've already resorted to insults and aggressive behavior so don't be surprised if I decide to break off this discussion.

Insults? I was just pointing how i personally think some of your arguments are stupid and makes no sense, i didn't insult you as a person so don't be such a sook.

I'm not obliged to convince you of my opinions, this is a community thread and therefore the decision will be decided by the majority.

Oh so if the majority says something i can't disagree? You're the one forcing your opinions on other people lulz.

 

Firstly I would advise that you read my post right before the OP, which contains information you are missing.

Information irrelevant to this debate.

 

 

In particular

episode. After dispatching several Sith assassins Traya easily subdues Sion by Force choking him.

Restored content isn't canon my friend. It was cut content the fans had restored as a mod.

Given that we must assume that if Malgus is more powerful than Traya he would be capable of Force choking beings of equal and greater power in such an instant manner. Yet he is not.

Again, you repeat the same old worthless arguments of "X > Y because X did feat A and Y did not".

 

I fail to see how not force choking beings of similar power puts him below Traya.

 

 

He failed to subdue Ven Zallow in this manner and instead had to defeat him in lightsaber combat.

So friggin what? Are you implying he is a weak combatant just because he beat him in lightsaber combat? Do you really know how dumb this sounds?

 

Thats what being a combatant is all about! Its being great in the force AND having having competant lightsaber skills and not just fancy super force powers(With Vitiate being the exception for how over the top his powers are).

This little piece of information was stated in the Darth Bane novel "Path of Destruction"

 

And its bloody common sense. Lets use MMA as an example, a great MMA fighter has great skill in utilizing both striking and grappling and would overall be the better fighter than another MMA fighter who only knows how to strike and not grapple or the otherway around.

 

If the battle is simply decided by force powers alone or who has more raw power, then why the heck were lightsabers even invented to begin with?

He failed to subdue Zallow's apprentice who he was also forced to engage in combat.

 

He failed to subdue an unnamed Zabrak Jedi on Alderaan who again he had to engage in combat.

So because he failed to subdue 2 Jedi it automatically makes him an inferior warrior to Traya?

 

So by your logic, Vader is a piss lousy warrior, because he failed to kill Boba Fett twice when they got into a fight, by your logic, Luke skywalker is a piss lousy warrior because he couldn't beat a vastly inferior force user like desaan, when that point in the timeline he had already went head to head with the reborn emperor whom at the peak of his powers and then struck down in a lightsaber duel?

 

 

Given that prior to both his duel with Zallow and his duel with the Zabrak Jedi he Force choked a Jedi without attacking them first in anyway, we have no reason to assume that if he could do this, he would refrain from doing so.

You don't always have an opening to attack with force powers in the midst of a lightsaber duel without the risk of you getting cleaved in half unless there is an opportunity to do so.

 

This is why the Jedi and the Sith go through rigorous swordsmanship training, because most fights end in a duel unless your sheer power in the force is on the level of Vitiate or Sidious.

 

Yet he didn't, because he couldn't.

See the above.

And yet none of these Jedi are demonstrably more powerful than Darth Sion, and Traya would therefore be able to dominate them totally without raising a finger. What does that tell you? The only logical explanation I can think of is that Darth Traya is the superior Force user.

And your logic is horrible

 

Your argument is A > B. B > C therefore A > C. Well thats a really bad argument and poor explanation, it doesn't work like that.

 

Count Dooku smashes Kenobi without much effort twice, Anakin has overwhelmed Dooku and quickly dispatches him.

So by your A > B > C logic Anakin should have beaten Kenobi in their duel on mustafar, but what happened? Kenobi hacked Anakins legs off and left him for dead.

I can list a dozen other examples of this which disproves your ridiculous assertions.

 

 

 

 

1. Darth Nihilus, as I demonstrated to you but you chose to dismiss, it immensely powerful which is why he subdued Traya so easily.

And look at the video trayas fall, the force push was so subtle. His immense power had nothing to do with it my friend. Quick being so stubborn. It wasn't as if he force gripped her and ragdolled the hell out of her, all he did was a simple force push to kreia against a pillar and it was enough to put her on her arse.

 

He would have done the same to Malgus,

Prove it!

he did the same to entire planets. And yes for the record it was instant.

How does that scan prove that it was instant? Its just 3-4 pictures at most. How do you know that he doesn't need to prep for the attack? Why didn't he "instantly drain" the planet of telos then and instead waited long enough for the Exile to beat his arse down?

 

This isn't valid proof of him being able to use the power to drain planets in an instant.

Its also likely that Nihilus severed her from the Force in tandem with this, making her incapable of resisting.

Well he did strip her off her powers, this is confirmed.

2. Meetra Surik is an incredibly powerful Jedi, and I believe her to be at least equal if not superior to Traya in terms of power. She is certainly more powerful than Zallow, Leener and the Zabrak Jedi. So I fail to see your point here.

Well by your logic, because she hasn't demonstrated the ability to drain 3 masters, she isn't on the same level.

 

3. High Jedi Council members are not nobodys

 

They are unless they prove otherwise.

- don't degrade your argument by saying such things. Obviously they are powerful else they never would have been appointed.

Pfft thats like telling me Kaan and the rest of the brotherhood are "obviously powerful" because they were called DARK LORDS OF THE SITH when inf act they were weak as piss.

 

Just because someone is called a Master doesn't make him automatically powerful. Then why is it disputed that Luke,Yoda and some others are called some of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy? Its because they actually show themselves being so with feats and combat displays, and thats when we can make a proper assessment if they are strong or not.

 

 

Your tendency to dismiss characters because of lack of feats is illogical.

Yes, im illogical by trying to make conclusions by analyzing the facts.

 

Those 3 jedi's have demonstrated nothing noteworthy, try again.

They are Jedi Masters, by nature they are powerful. Don't treat characters like Pokemon cards.

Bad argument, read my earlier posts.

4. Force drain is not like Sith Sorcery, it is an ability solely reliant on raw Force power.

Whose disputing that its Sith Sorcery? Stop resorting to strawman arguments.

5. Your attitude is pissing me off.

Deal with it, thats just the way i debate, nothin personal Edited October 21, 2013 by Makoto_Shishio

[Makoto_Shishio]

Exile was immune to force drain.

Because of her force connection, that shes a wound. And as i said there are plenty of force users who has demonstrated the ability to remove themselves out of the force to defend against this technique.

Nihilus cut Traya off from the force. She was too powerful to face alone if he hadn't.

No she wouldn't have been. She got knocked on her arse when she had plenty of time to take either Nihilus or Sion out.

[Trixdope]

Deyvon for sure

[Aurbere]

Anyone else finding this Traya vs. Malgus discussion to be pointless?

 

At least take it to the proper thread.

[wrnfkbsdgfbdsgb]

This is a list concerning lightsaber duelists, see here for the list concerning Sith Force Users. However while I recognise Nihilus' immense power he is not being considered for two reasons.

 

1. He is not a coporeal being, but essentially a spirit - non-coporeal beings such as that do not qualify for the list.

 

2. His power is entirely dependent in the wound in the Force present inside him, which makes it impossible to determine how powerful he actually is and therefore place him on this list.

 

Nihilus is just too difficult to pin down.

 

As is with most. Bane for example, while highly skilled, just like Vader, is easily killed by force lightning. And you can not ignore the force in combat. Force attacks are a big part of lightsaber combat, it is never just a pure saber on saber, that is why it shouldnt be disregarded.

[Selenial]

Everyone knows I hate doing long posts to counter the naive arguments of petty fanboys, but here goes.

 

Insults? I was just pointing how i personally think some of your arguments are stupid and makes no sense, i didn't insult you as a person so don't be such a sook.

Oh so if the majority says something i can't disagree? You're the one forcing your opinions on other people lulz.

Rofl.

 

Information irrelevant to this debate.

Only irrelevant because you choose to ignore anything we say.

Everything is irrelevant when the idiot you're replying to won't listen.

 

Restored content isn't canon my friend. It was cut content the fans had restored as a mod.

Again, you repeat the same old worthless arguments of "X > Y because X did feat A and Y did not".

 

Restored content is canon, in terms of Malachor, Telos and the Ravager.

 

And he's not saying that, he's using examples. Something you have failed to do... Multiple times.

 

I fail to see how not force choking beings of similar power puts him below Traya.

Because he's done it to hundreds of Jedi instead of engaging in battle with them, the fact he didnt to these Jedi means he probably wasn't able to.

 

So friggin what? Are you implying he is a weak combatant just because he beat him in lightsaber combat? Do you really know how dumb this sounds?

 

The only thing dumb here is your ridiculous misunderstanding of the thread in question. Real most powerful is in terms of force skill, *******.

 

Oh wait, i forgot, the stuff in the OP is completely irrelevant

 

Thats what being a combatant is all about! Its being great in the force AND having having competant lightsaber skills and not just fancy super force powers(With Vitiate being the exception for how over the top his powers are).

This little piece of information was stated in the Darth Bane novel "Path of Destruction"

I... Don't even... Da***?

 

If the battle is simply decided by force powers alone or who has more raw power, then why the heck were lightsabers even invented to begin with?

 

Force Powers are an incredible factor in a battle. If Kenobi was the face Sidious, he'd be obliterated, despite his impenetrable soresu defenses. (Which isn't even the case, Sidious could do both

 

 

 

This is why the Jedi and the Sith go through rigorous swordsmanship training, because most fights end in a duel unless your sheer power in the force is on the level of Vitiate or Sidious.

 

Lightsabers offer a means to counter force abilities, stop your opponent from using them. They're also damn deadly, can be incorporated into force attacks. You're just missing the point.

 

See the above.

And your logic is horrible

 

Eheh.

 

Ahaha...

 

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

*Ahem* Sorry. Give me a moment.

 

 

So by your A > B > C logic Anakin should have beaten Kenobi in their duel on mustafar, but what happened? Kenobi hacked Anakins legs off and left him for dead.

I can list a dozen other examples of this which disproves your ridiculous assertions.

 

That's not his logic at all. It's easy to explain why that particular event happened, Anakin had stronger force potential than Kenobi and thus a stronger force barrier, he had the offensive skills to keep Dooku on edge where Kenobi had none. In their duel on mustafar, Anakin was unbalanced with rage and unable to break Kenobis defense. The problem was, Skywalker lacked Dooku's prowess with Dark Side abilities, so when he tried to use the force they were a dead even match.

 

Also, Dooku was testing Skywalker.

 

And look at the video trayas fall, the force push was so subtle. His immense power had nothing to do with it my friend. Quick being so stubborn. It wasn't as if he force gripped her and ragdolled the hell out of her, all he did was a simple force push to kreia against a pillar and it was enough to put her on her arse.

 

Whilst i find it cute that you love the slapstick humour of someone falling over, look closer. He force pushed her, (In the same style every force push in the game goes) and as SOON as she was on the floor her connection to the force was gone, as she could not summon her saber.

 

Just because someone is called a Master doesn't make him automatically powerful. Then why is it disputed that Luke,Yoda and some others are called some of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy? Its because they actually show themselves being so with feats and combat displays, and thats when we can make a proper assessment if they are strong or not.

They weren't just masters. They survived the onslaught of Sith Assassins hunting them. They survived the Jedi Civil War. They SAT ON THE JEDI COUNCIL.

 

They were some of the 12 most Powerful Jedi in the Order, in a time when there were thousands.

 

I cut any of your post out that was either too stupid, or was sorted in one of the other responses to your other quotes.

[Darkelefantos]

Anyone else finding this Traya vs. Malgus discussion to be pointless?

 

At least take it to the proper thread.

 

Aurbere has spoken. Listen to him.

 

In all honesty, I totally agree.

[Selenial]

No she wouldn't have been. She got knocked on her arse when she had plenty of time to take either Nihilus or Sion out.

 

She drew her saber. Then Bamn, stripped of the Force.

 

[Selenial]

Inb4 "but cuz sh# is a f0rc3 wounD h3 w@z w3@k3ned".

 

I found this hilarious.

 

You knew the reason why, you know it's true, so you try to use "inb4" as a method of devaluing and dismissing the argument.

[Selenial]

Aurbere has spoken. Listen to him.

 

In all honesty, I totally agree.

 

Indeed, enough with this Beni, stop spending your time replying to this fool and go call the Kaggath

 

No but seriously, Traya > Malgus, let's just post it.

 

No serious debaters have really quarreled it.

[tunewalker]

Aurbere has spoken. Listen to him.

 

In all honesty, I totally agree.

 

Same here. can we get back to duelists.

[tunewalker]

Indeed, enough with this Beni, stop spending your time replying to this fool and go call the Kaggath

 

No but seriously, Traya > Malgus, let's just post it.

 

No serious debaters have really quarreled it.

 

I have, lol but not in length because this isn't the thread for it.