The REAL Most Powerful Sith Lightsaber Duelists

[Aurbere]

I see no smilies...

 

The joke should have been implied when I mentioned 'The Hitman.'

 

But fine. Here you go:

[LadyKulvax]

I'm not sure I see it, Krayt perhaps but Ulic? You said so yourself that Kun simply left Ulic behind in terms of lightsaber capabilities. Kun only duelled him to a standstill with a single blade, I doubt he'd have lasted long against his saberstaff.

 

So utlimately we have a Djem So specialist - but I don't think as a specialist he deserves to be up there with Vader, Maul and Dooku - I feel he is in a lower league and therefore best placed at the tail end.

 

#7 and #8 I feel should go to the 'second tier' if you like blademasters. Much like it did in the Jedi thread.

 

He wasn't only a Djem-So duellist, he had a full range of high-level proficiency in both Form V variations as well as Soresu and Ataru.

 

Also, his skill with a blade is more evident than ever, not when he stalemates Exar Kun but when after his connection to the Force is stripped completely and he still decimates a Dark Jedi opponent because he was that damn proficient with the Lightsaber.

 

There is also another feat of his even before his turn to the Dark Side, when he holds off an army almost single-handedly alongside Nomi Sunrider whom is busy defending their injured Jedi allies.

 

There is a reason he along with Kun is seen as the absolute peak of all the Sith throughout the entire Old Sith Wars.

[Makoto_Shishio]

Everyone knows I hate doing long posts to counter the naive arguments of petty fanboys, but here goes.

Calling me a fanboy doesn't change the fact that you are an absolutely pathetic debater.

 

 

 

Only irrelevant because you choose to ignore anything we say.

Everything is irrelevant when the idiot you're replying to won't listen. I chose to ignore them because most of your claims are unbacked by anything concrete.

 

 

 

Restored content is canon, in terms of Malachor, Telos and the Ravager.

Prove it that it is, thats like telling me the deleted scenes of revenge of the sith is canon.

 

Cut content isn't canon and restored content was done by FANS that was released as a mod moron. Stop twisting facts to suit your argument, the fact that you're using non canon restored content by fans for your arguments makes you look like a joke and a hypocrite.

And he's not saying that, he's using examples. Something you have failed to do... Multiple times.

I HAVE used examples and i have used sources to back my claims up as well, hes using bloody cut content for his argument lulz!. Do you have a reading disability? Or do you simply choose to ignore half my arguments because you come up with nothing?

 

Because he's done it to hundreds of Jedi instead of engaging in battle with them, the fact he didnt to these Jedi means he probably wasn't able to.

So because he doesn't do it to a few people means he couldn't do it? How do you know he didn't have an opening? Thats like saying "Vader didn't defeat boba fett, it means he probably couldn't".

 

Its called circumstances and situations dummy.

 

The only thing dumb here is your ridiculous misunderstanding of the thread in question. Real most powerful is in terms of force skill, *******.

He's implying a powerful is sith lord is weak because he beat someone else through a lightsaber, im just pointing out how stupid that sounds.

 

Respond to the argument, instead of bringing up something irrelevant.

 

Oh wait, i forgot, the stuff in the OP is completely irrelevant

 

I... Don't even... Da***? Either respond to that, or shut the hell up.

 

Force Powers are an incredible factor in a battle. If Kenobi was the face Sidious, he'd be obliterated, despite his impenetrable soresu defenses. (Which isn't even the case, Sidious could do both

Which is exactly what iv been arguing about all along. To be a top contender, you need BOTH great force mastery and great lightsaber dueling skills which Taya has not demonstrated at all. Sure, she has her force drain, but thats about it, what do we know about her swordsmanship with the lightsaber? Nothing.

What do we know about her powers? That she can see far into the future blah blah blah and thats about it, that doesn't prove her being a great combatant.

 

Her combat abilities hasn't shown to be anywhere close to half impressive.

 

Thats what i been arguing the whole damn time, its just people like you whom are so blinded by your raging fanboyism, you refuse to see the point.

 

 

 

 

Lightsabers offer a means to counter force abilities, stop your opponent from using them. They're also damn deadly, can be incorporated into force attacks. You're just missing the point.

Nope, you're missing the point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not his logic at all.

Yes it is, learn to read. He's outright stating A > B > C

It's easy to explain why that particular event happened, Anakin had stronger force potential than Kenobi and thus a stronger force barrier, he had the offensive skills to keep Dooku on edge where Kenobi had none. In their duel on mustafar, Anakin was unbalanced with rage and unable to break Kenobis defense. The problem was, Skywalker lacked Dooku's prowess with Dark Side abilities, so when he tried to use the force they were a dead even match.

 

Also, Dooku was testing Skywalker. And you see, thats why A > B > C logic doesn't work.

 

 

 

Whilst i find it cute that you love the slapstick humour of someone falling over, look closer. He force pushed her, (In the same style every force push in the game goes) and as SOON as she was on the floor her connection to the force was gone, as she could not summon her saber.

Which is exactly what iv been arguing, a simple force push was enough to overwhelm to so called great Traya!

 

 

They weren't just masters. They survived the onslaught of Sith Assassins hunting them.

They survived by hiding, not by combat as they themselves stated in KOTOR2.

 

They survived the Jedi Civil War.

That means jacksquat in combat abilities and force prowess.

 

They SAT ON THE JEDI COUNCIL.

Boohoo they sat on the council so they must be powerful! As i have stated in my earlier post(which you delibrately ignored), the weaklings in the brotherhood of darkness were called DARK LORDS OF THE SITH and fell pathetically easy to mere jedi padawans.

 

Just because you sit on the council doesn't automatically make you a strong combatant, you think the only reason you get on the council is because of combat? What about wisdom etc etc?

 

They were some of the 12 most Powerful Jedi in the Order, in a time when there were thousands.[/color]

Well if they were the most powerful of the order, then that really shows how weak their order was yes?

 

I cut any of your post out that was either too stupid, or was sorted in one of the other responses to your other quotes.

Yes, its stupid because you don't have an argument to counter it. Denial is nice isn't it?

Edited October 22, 2013 by Makoto_Shishio

[Makoto_Shishio]

Indeed, enough with this Beni, stop spending your time replying to this fool and go call the Kaggath

Yep, im a fool for having a different opinion and actually debating it. You're so mature and a godly beacon of knowledge

 

No but seriously, Traya > Malgus, let's just post it.

 

No serious debaters have really quarreled it.

Then prove it.

 

I found this hilarious.

 

You knew the reason why, you know it's true, so you try to use "inb4" as a method of devaluing and dismissing the argument.

I'm not dismissing it moron.

[Kaedusz]

Not that it matters,but I find myself in a great paradox.

I agree with Purple and the color team on this issue(Traya>Malgus),but i also applaud the other guy's attitude towards you.

It's so amusing.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Aurbere]

Not that it matters,but I find myself in a great paradox.

I agree with Purple and the color team on this issue(Traya>Malgus),but i also applaud the other guy's attitude towards you.

It's so amusing.

 

I (and probably the rest of the so-called 'color team') would prefer it if you would call them by name, not the color of the text they type in.

[Aurbere]

*snip*

 

I'm sure everybody would appreciate it if you laid off the insults. It's unnecessary and adds no real substance to your argument. It actually detracts from your argument and makes it hard to agree with you.

[Beniboybling]

Boohoo they sat on the council so they must be powerful! As i have stated in my earlier post(which you delibrately ignored), the weaklings in the brotherhood of darkness were called DARK LORDS OF THE SITH and fell pathetically easy to mere jedi padawans.

 

Just because you sit on the council doesn't automatically make you a strong combatant, you think the only reason you get on the council is because of combat? What about wisdom etc etc?

You seem to be placing the burden of proof on us Makoto yet you've provided no evidence that displays the Jedi High Council to be weak. Essentially this is baseless opinion that you've fabricated to support your argument, exploiting the lack of information on the Jedi to make it seem credible. Perhaps you'd like to back it up with some proof.

 

On the topic of KOTOR II Restored Content, its being considered. A lot of this content was originally meant to be in game and as you said we possess little information on this characters, I see no reason why we shouldn't enrich our knowledge of these characters by considering the implications of cut content on their abilities.

 

If you disagree with that then fine, but this is the policy being taken by these threads.

 

P.S. Selenial I wouldn't bother continuing this mud slinging contest with him.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Not that it matters,but I find myself in a great paradox.

I agree with Purple and the color team on this issue(Traya>Malgus),but i also applaud the other guy's attitude towards you.

It's so amusing.

Only you would support that kind of attitude...

[Makoto_Shishio]

You seem to be placing the burden of proof on us Makoto yet you've provided no evidence that displays the Jedi High Council to be weak.

I can't prove the negative, you claimed these featless wonders to be powerful, you prove it.

 

Essentially this is baseless opinion that you've fabricated to support your argument,

How is it baseless? Iv already offered proof, proof which you choose to ignore. Like the sith weaklings in kaans brotherhood which were titled dark lords of the sith that were easily squashed by the jedi.

 

Its not baseless when these featless jedi demonstrate nothing.

exploiting the lack of information on the Jedi to make it seem credible. Perhaps you'd like to back it up with some proof.

Don't tell me about backing up with proof when you use cut content to suit your arguments.

 

On the topic of KOTOR II Restored Content, its being considered. A lot of this content was originally meant to be in game and as you said we possess little information on this characters, I see no reason why we shouldn't enrich our knowledge of these characters by considering the implications of cut content on their abilities.

Because its cut content, it was restored work done by fans, not by obsidian entertainment therefore it is not canon.

 

You can't use something thats non canon to back your arguments up

 

If you disagree with that then fine, but this is the policy being taken by these threads.

 

I'm sorry Beniboybling, I don't know if people have ever told you this, but you are not an authority here, you are not a Lucasarts employee. You sometimes act as if you feel you are superior to others, and on a higher level in wisdom, and thus feel that you can dictate whenever someone's right or wrong. Do people have to come to you whenever they make an argument, and run it by you? In your eyes, yes. In reality, no.

P.S. Selenial I wouldn't bother continuing this mud slinging contest with him.

Thats what you said earlier, so what exactly are you doing now?

[Beniboybling]

I can't prove the negative, you claimed these featless wonders to be powerful, you prove it.

So your telling me that you have no evidence at all to suggest that they are weak? Then why do you assert so strongly that this is the case? If we have no evidence to suggest they are weak, and no evidence to suggest they are strong then surely the most logical and reliable solution is to assume they are as powerful as the average Jedi High Council member? Rather than just deciding they are weak cause they ain't go a Poke card?

 

What your saying is baseless, you say they have demonstrated nothing, and yet your are ascribing something to them, that's hypocritical. Applying negative traits to them is just as logical reprehensible as applying positive feats to them.

 

And this Brotherhood stuff is poor evidence, to counter that I could just point to every other incarnation of the Jedi High Council which has always been comprised of highly powerful Jedi. At least I'm talking about the right Order here.

 

And for the record, the cut-content you refer to was restored by fans, it was created by Obsidian:

 

In a gesture to the fans Obsidian Entertainment provided the PC version of the game with many resources meant to be used for the original ending, such as screen plays, voice-acting, etc...

 

...They were extracted and arranged by two users of the Obsidian Forum Community [1] known as "HighPriest" [2] and "Aurora" [3] to produce The Sith Lords Restoration Project. While the files do not resolve everything, they do clarify what would have happened to many of the members of your party, and elucidate many in-game events.

 

EDIT: Notice that they were intended to be used, meaning they have value. Regardless of whether they are non-canon or not they still have value. In such a sense non-canon becomes an empty term.

 

And yes, I'm not sure anyone has told you this but I am the authority here. I am not a Lucasarts employee, this is not an official Star Wars thread, therefore I am not obliged to follow the rules of canon. To put it plainly this is my thread and therefore you will abide by my rules - if you don't like that them feel free to go elsewhere.

 

EDIT: Understand that its necessary to have some kind of authority in these threads so we avoid having petty discussion over issues like whether Nihilus should be considered for this list or not, whether Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord, whether the Ancient Sith should be considered or not etc. else we won't move forward.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Thats what you said earlier, so what exactly are you doing now?

Your right, I've made my stance clear. So good day sir.

[Makoto_Shishio]

So your telling me that you have no evidence at all to suggest that they are weak? .

Theres no evidence to show they are strong. Infact. all evidence DOES point to them being weak, like being insta killed with one force attack.

Then why do you assert so strongly that this is the case? If we have no evidence to suggest they are weak, and no evidence to suggest they are strong then surely the most logical and reliable solution is to assume they are as powerful as the average Jedi High Council member?.

But just how powerful is the Average Jedi High Council member? Then it simply means those guys were Average at best if you won't accept weak.

 

When i say "weak", i make it in comparison to the top tier jedi/sith.

What your saying is baseless, you say they have demonstrated nothing,

.

So stating what i see is baseless?

and yet your are ascribing something to them. Don't be a hypocrite, applying negative traits to them is just as logical reprehensible as applying positive feats to them..

Application of negative traits is due to what is seen, what is written in sources. Having seen nothing positive of them, except the assertion that they are "powerful" simply because they are on the high council is preposterous, you're either going to have to prove that they are combat worthy, or simply concede your argument.

And this Brotherhood stuff is poor evidence, .

No, im simply pointing out to Selenial that her argument of them being powerful just because they were ranked masters is abhorrent and stupid. Evidence is evidence.

 

o counter that I could just point to every other incarnation of the Jedi High Council which has always been comprised of highly powerful Jedi. At least I'm talking about the right Order here..

See the above.

 

And for the record, the cut-content you refer to was restored by fans, it was created by Obsidian:

.

You really are a stubborn donkey aren't you? If it wasn't in the game by official release, it is not and will not be canon. This is a fact, get over it and move on.

 

If it was restored by Obsidian, then its a different story.

 

Going by your stubborn thickheaded thinking, then id argue the whole force unleashed saga is non-canon for the simple fact that shaak-ti was a major character in the first TFU when in one of the deleted scenes of revenge of the sith, she was shown to be executed by general grievous.

 

Just because a bunch of modders released it as a non official mod, doesn't make it a usable canon source, if thats the cause i could simply grab adobe movie maker, slap in the deleted scenes and then declare the deleted scenes canon.

 

In a gesture to the fans Obsidian Entertainment provided the PC version of the game with many resources meant to be used for the original ending, such as screen plays, voice-acting, etc....

So what? Fan content isn't canon, Fan restored content also isn't canon. Get it in your head.

...They were extracted and arranged by two users of the Obsidian Forum Community [1] known as "HighPriest" [2] and "Aurora" [3] to produce The Sith Lords Restoration Project. While the files do not resolve everything, they do clarify what would have happened to many of the members of your party, and elucidate many in-game events.

Which again is not canon.

And yes, I'm not sure anyone has told you this but I am the authority here.

Keep living in denial.

I am not a Lucasarts employee, this is not an official Star Wars thread, therefore I am not obliged to follow the rules of canon. To put it plainly this is my thread and therefore you will abide by my rules - if you don't like that them feel free to go elsewhere.

LOL, you want to ignore the rules of canon, get into a debate with ignoring the said rules and then act as an authority because you created the thread? You're a joke mate.

 

If you're so insistent of ignoring canon, why don't you start using characters from fan fiction then? You state this and expect to be taken seriously? are a laughing stock, i won't be going anywhere anytime soon mate.

 

So thats the case then, ignore canon huh? Well why don't you put Vader on number 1 then? Seeing how in empire of war i could use Vader to singlehandedly take out the rebel armies with his force crush decimating entire armies and military tanks.

 

PS

Its ironic you keep saying you will ignore me, but you can't because you're embarrased i keep poking holes in your argument

Edited October 22, 2013 by Makoto_Shishio

[Beniboybling]

Well clearly Makato there is no convincing you, but unfortunately I find your arguments equally unpersuasive.

 

Currently we have a minor lead on support for Traya over Malgus and a lot of ambiguity so for now I'm going to equalise them and we'll see if anyone else has something to say on the matter.

[Makoto_Shishio]

Well clearly Makato there is no convincing you, but unfortunately I find your arguments equally unpersuasive.

 

Currently we have a minor lead on support for Traya over Malgus and a lot of ambiguity so for now I'm going to equalise them and we'll see if anyone else has something to say on the matter.

Hey, continue being thick headed and stubborn, i just had to LOL when you said you ignored canon. Why is there even a list anyway?

 

That being said, of course i can't pursuade you, you just admitted to be a raging hormone fanboy of Traya

Edited October 22, 2013 by Makoto_Shishio

[Beniboybling]

Hey, continue being thick headed and stubborn, i just had to LOL when you said you ignored canon. Why is there even a list anyway?

 

That being said, of course i can't pursuade you, you just admitted to be a raging hormone fanboy of Traya

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/20700000/Just-smile-and-wave-boys-penguins-of-madagascar-20799079-500-240.gif

[tunewalker]

Ok first want to say, beni and selenial neither of you are treating Makato any better then he is treating you and I would like to note he is the new one here. He is the one who is the new voice trying to come into these debates and its hard to be heard as the new person in town. You 2 come from a position of power he comes in with little to no back up knowing that he will have little to try and convince you of something that he believes is correct that is by no means absurd as we initially put Malgus over Traya to begin with. anyway that's my thoughts I can see why some people have issues debating with you guys when you call them out on their attitude but do not return much better in kind (you return slightly better sometimes) and they are the new ones and you guys are the established instead of having a welcoming attitude you guys can come off a bit heavy handed.

 

 

On the debate its hard to say whether they were weak or they were powerful so we can assume neither in all honesty. Assumptions are bad, rather I feel we must look at other displays and for that reason I feel Malgus trumps Traya by a bit.

 

 

Edit: on topic see rayla's last post as to why Ulic should get number 7.

Edited October 22, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

Ok first want to say, beni and selenial neither of you are treating Makato any better then he is treating you and I would like to note he is the new one here. He is the one who is the new voice trying to come into these debates and its hard to be heard as the new person in town. You 2 come from a position of power he comes in with little to no back up knowing that he will have little to try and convince you of something that he believes is correct that is by no means absurd as we initially put Malgus over Traya to begin with. anyway that's my thoughts I can see why some people have issues debating with you guys when you call them out on their attitude but do not return much better in kind (you return slightly better sometimes) and they are the new ones and you guys are the established instead of having a welcoming attitude you guys can come off a bit heavy handed.

Let's not even go there tune. I'm not obliged to respond nicely to someone who calls me a "raging hormone fanboy" and generally responds to and presents argument in the most aggressive way possible, and I'm confused as to how you can support that. I have no issue with Makoto or anyone taking an opposing stance to me but if they are going to be condescending, sarcastic, insulting and hostile then I don't have a shred of respect for them. And I don't much care if my response come across as heavy handed, because they should count themselves lucky that I refrain from saying what I actually think of them. If they are going to adopt that kind of stance, they sure as hell better me prepared for the consequences. And if they don't like how they are being treated, then they should sort that attitude out.

 

I'll admit that Sel cracks down on people with attitude hard, but its not my place to judge. I can't blame her for getting annoyed as such behavior and frankly Makoto is simple getting what he deserves.

 

Anyway Makoto is not 'new' to these forums (go look at his history - you won't be impressed) and I've had multiple dealings with him, all of which have ended (or started) with him flying of the hook. I'm done being polite, I've tried that and the response was just more hostility. And now I'm done responding altogether, my new policy is simply to ignore him, I think its in everyone's best interests that we all do exactly that.

[Beniboybling]

He wasn't only a Djem-So duellist, he had a full range of high-level proficiency in both Form V variations as well as Soresu and Ataru.

 

Also, his skill with a blade is more evident than ever, not when he stalemates Exar Kun but when after his connection to the Force is stripped completely and he still decimates a Dark Jedi opponent because he was that damn proficient with the Lightsaber.

 

There is also another feat of his even before his turn to the Dark Side, when he holds off an army almost single-handedly alongside Nomi Sunrider whom is busy defending their injured Jedi allies.

 

There is a reason he along with Kun is seen as the absolute peak of all the Sith throughout the entire Old Sith Wars.

But did Kas'im not have a high-level proficiency in Juyo, Ataru and Jar'Kai? Along with mastery over all the other forms?

 

Kas'im it should be noted took on and ending up dominating a Force User I'd estimate to be twice as powerful as he was, who himself was a highly skilled duelist. And I find it hard to believe that a master of his caliber would be useless without the Force. He himself espoused a doctrine of superior lightsaber skill over superior Force ability.

 

In fact I'd say quite a lot of high level duelists would be able to function without the Force, Ulic's feat may come across as impressive and unprecedented, but only because nobody else has ever been in that position.

 

Really I just don't see much grounds for Ulic over Kas'im, not only has Kas'im achieved mastery over a greater range of forms but his mastery over his personal forms is at least equal if not superior to Ulic.

 

We certainly lack the evidence to suggest otherwise.

[tunewalker]

Let's not even go there tune. I'm not obliged to respond nicely to someone who calls me a "raging hormone fanboy" and generally responds to and presents argument in the most aggressive way possible, and I'm confused as to how you can support that. I have no issue with Makoto or anyone taking an opposing stance to me but if they are going to be condescending, sarcastic, insulting and hostile then I don't have a shred of respect for them. And I don't much care if my response come across as heavy handed, because they should count themselves lucky that I refrain from saying what I actually think of them. If they are going to adopt that kind of stance, they sure as hell better me prepared for the consequences. And if they don't like how they are being treated, then they should sort that attitude out.

 

I'll admit that Sel cracks down on people with attitude hard, but its not my place to judge. I can't blame her for getting annoyed as such behavior and frankly Makoto is simple getting what he deserves.

 

Anyway Makoto is not 'new' to these forums (go look at his history - you won't be impressed) and I've had multiple dealings with him, all of which have ended (or started) with him flying of the hook. I'm done being polite, I've tried that and the response was just more hostility. And now I'm done responding altogether, my new policy is simply to ignore him, I think its in everyone's best interests that we all do exactly that.

 

I am not backing his behavior nor am I back your response to it. That's my whole point the general hostility is not condusive to a good debate and I feel neither side is behaving appropriately. Please understand that. Its one of those moments when I am kind of saying both are running into the issue of rage and need to take a step back and have a breather. You know as well as I do that I am just as guilty of it if not more so. You have seen my history man and you know how I get so I feel I understand where both are coming from but would like to see every one take a step back and become nicer. You know what I am trying to say yes beni

[Selenial]

Sorry Tune... I have to.

Strawman argument

Implies it's a useless argument, when it was perfectly rational and applicable to the debate

Nobodies arguing about Nihilus but you.

...

Inb4 "but cuz sh# is a f0rc3 wounD h3 w@z w3@k3ned".

Indirectly insulting us for using an actual canon argument.

And this is relevant in combat how?

I like this one. Beni replied with "Check the info in the OP" to which we got...

Information irrelevant to this debate.

Dismissal of arguments that he cannot retort to.

 

Your argument is flawed and stupid

some of your arguments are stupid and makes no sense

Again, you repeat the same old worthless arguments

So friggin what?

And your logic is horrible

 

All round trying to annoy Beni. He'd been perfectly hospitable and kind to him, simply putting his arguments forward in a matter of fact way.

 

Pfft thats like telling me Kaan and the rest of the brotherhood are "obviously powerful" because they were called DARK LORDS OF THE SITH when inf act they were weak as piss.

Hehe, just found this. Thought it was funny.

Mainly because he's comparing the Jedi High Council, the best in an order of thousands, to rank and file sith who happened to use a name that previously meant something.

 

THIS IS BEFORE I even entered the debate, he was far from a shining beacon of light before I showed up... Oh and then:

doesn't change the fact that you are an absolutely pathetic debater.

For using the exact same insult he used on Beni.

 

 

Annnnyyyywwwaaayyyyy, it got heated, we're all prone to it, but this guy was doing it before it was cool

No but seriously, he deserved it.

[Selenial]

Now that's out of the way I say we just vote.

 

We've got me and Beni arguing for Traya, Tunewalker and him arguing for Malgus, and most of the others seemed to say they're indifferent...

 

VOTE NOW

[Selenial]

But did Kas'im not have a high-level proficiency in Juyo, Ataru and Jar'Kai? Along with mastery over all the other forms?

 

Kas'im it should be noted took on and ending up dominating a Force User I'd estimate to be twice as powerful as he was, who himself was a highly skilled duelist. And I find it hard to believe that a master of his caliber would be useless without the Force. He himself espoused a doctrine of superior lightsaber skill over superior Force ability.

 

In fact I'd say quite a lot of high level duelists would be able to function without the Force, Ulic's feat may come across as impressive and unprecedented, but only because nobody else has ever been in that position.

 

Really I just don't see much grounds for Ulic over Kas'im, not only has Kas'im achieved mastery over a greater range of forms but his mastery over his personal forms is at least equal if not superior to Ulic.

 

We certainly lack the evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

Pretty much this.

[tunewalker]

Sorry Tune... I have to.

 

Implies it's a useless argument, when it was perfectly rational and applicable to the debate

 

...

 

Indirectly insulting us for using an actual canon argument.

 

I like this one. Beni replied with "Check the info in the OP" to which we got...

 

Dismissal of arguments that he cannot retort to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All round trying to annoy Beni. He'd been perfectly hospitable and kind to him, simply putting his arguments forward in a matter of fact way.

 

 

Hehe, just found this. Thought it was funny.

Mainly because he's comparing the Jedi High Council, the best in an order of thousands, to rank and file sith who happened to use a name that previously meant something.

 

THIS IS BEFORE I even entered the debate, he was far from a shining beacon of light before I showed up... Oh and then:

 

For using the exact same insult he used on Beni.

 

 

Annnnyyyywwwaaayyyyy, it got heated, we're all prone to it, but this guy was doing it before it was cool

No but seriously, he deserved it.

 

Ya like i said not excusing his actions he needs to clean it up to and i perfectly understand where you guys are coming from and why you guys got the way you did, after all think about how i have been at times selenial think about the unwarranted things i have said to you guys before because i got heated insults that none of you deserved. While he is not putting himself in a good light and is fueling the fire so he needs to knock it off as ell but i do feel over all the response wasnt all that much better. Personal attacks need to be left out entirely again i understand. Selenial you of all people should know i understand where you guys are coming from. Just wanting civility to return . We all get heated if every one can just take a step back and remember we are all here for the same reason im hoping that he can cool down and then you guys can as well but some one has to take that first step.

[Beniboybling]

I am not backing his behavior nor am I back your response to it. That's my whole point the general hostility is not condusive to a good debate and I feel neither side is behaving appropriately. Please understand that. Its one of those moments when I am kind of saying both are running into the issue of rage and need to take a step back and have a breather. You know as well as I do that I am just as guilty of it if not more so. You have seen my history man and you know how I get so I feel I understand where both are coming from but would like to see every one take a step back and become nicer. You know what I am trying to say yes beni

I understand where you are coming from, but I'd also point out that I haven't resorted to insults or degrading argument in any of my response, I've haven't been polite - but then I don't think its right that I put on a smile while he throws punches at me. Regardless again I see your point, but your mistakenly assuming that Makoto is going to change.

 

I assure he is not, I could be a polite as possible and he would still insist on hostility. Anyway this is going nowhere, I'd like to return to the discussion at hand. Thank you Makoto for bringing unpleasantness to yet another thread.

 

In other news, I just got beaten again in Supreme Commander - it was totally my allies fault. Stupid AI.

 

BUILD TURRETS GOSH DARN IT!

Edited October 22, 2013 by Beniboybling