How do you feel about the upcoming class changes in 2.5?

[NathanielStarr]

Trying to gather peoples opinion in one thread so hopefully the Devs may even look at it.

 

Here are the changes. http://www.swtor.com/blog/game-update-2.5-class-changes

[J_Fred]

I'm glad they are adding a root to master strike and ravage. The ability is the focus of the spec and currently it is easy to avoid, even with unremitting. All the other changes seem fine to me, although the buff to deception does seem a little odd, more specifically the buff to maul.

[metalfenix]

I feel indifferent. the only good thing about the changes is the boost on armor (or something like that) tha tankassasins/shadows will get, making them less spikey on PvE.

 

The changes on scoundrel are useless. I don't see the dps using quick shot unless they give it a gigantic boost, and the nerf....maybe it was intended for sawbones, but it hurts more the dps trees of op/scoundrels, making them less survivable. as a sawbones, I rarely use cover on PvP. maybe I only used it once.

 

No changes to commando/merc healing to bring them up for op/scoundrel or sorc/sage healing.

 

At least I should be glad that the nerfhammer weren't so strong this time for sawbones, I was expecting them to transform scoundrel into an useless advanced class with the upcoming nerfs.

[Xanas]

Aside the buff to maul it looks good... Still were is the nerf to OP healing?

 

Still my class get's a buff, root on MS, just awesome.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Sorcs must continue to Heal to Full while using LOS and Making Them Pay. That we received any adjustment at all is a pure accident of sharing a tree with Madness Sins, who are in turn getting a buff in response to the Jedi Shadow class questions.

 

More detailed thoughts, which would take a while to re-type here

 

Note: A Vengeance player brought up the point that it was unfair of me to single out the root on Ravage. Fair enough--the buff is needed for Vengeance to deal with certain other loltrollrolling specs. But the presence of yet another root, while DPS sorcs continue to get constantly rootlocked with no access to Fadeout (or any other escape that isn't on a 3 minute cooldown), does represent a last-straw scenario for us.

Edited October 18, 2013 by AdrianDmitruk

[NathanielStarr]

Myself I don't see any of these changes helping anything. In fact I think they are hurting things more. Assassins were fine. No changes to healing? More excuses as to why they can't really fix smashers because they are obviously the Dev's favorite class or at least they fear that truly balancing it will anger the players that they've already forced into playing that class if they want to PvP at all (I know dozens of people that felt they had to roll one and now only play that in pvp).

 

Snipers should've been toned down also, but no changes for them.

[alexsamma]

2.5 = more face rolling for sin/op/warrior/sniper.

 

I'll still lol on my operative when I want to heal arenas, and feel like I'm hurting my team when I solo queue on my sorc/sage.

 

Hopefully sin tanking is good again, otherwise I'll just give in and play lolception since it is my second favorite class.

[snaplemouton]

I feel like the blog about 2.5 patch notes generated a tons of tears, QQ, threads and posts depicting how much people have no clues what the hell they are talking about. Edited October 18, 2013 by snaplemouton

[LadyDarkkitten]

People will try veng then go back to smash. No fix to immortal damage being so low yr a burden to yr team without a healer to guard. Nothing about snipers being the class A range class, nothing about mara damage making them the class A alpha strike class (carnage). Nothing about smash specs being op if your team is smart enough to hold the enemy down for you while you blow them up. (so much CC in the game easy to do if you play with friends and is a random occurance if you dont)

 

 

I hate the loss of sin healing, will ruin my solo play on my tankasin, no fix to deceptions sustained damage or force managment issues and madness will still suck. So I'll just stop pveing with it and leave it as a pimped out pvp toon. The boost to its burst damage is going to be hilarious and Im going to enjoy making people rage quit warzones with it. I've always enjoyed getting hate /w I dont know why. It makes me laugh. I should maybe grow up abit.

 

The operative cover changes seem a bit pointless tbh, good healers dont sit in cover to be CC'd they run around alot in circles and around walls so you cant freecast into them/whale on them with yr glowy stick. I think it just fixes some annoying "exploits"(or as I like to call it intelligent play"

 

The sorc changes mean jack and I have no idea why they are even wasting their time with it.

[cs_zoltan]

Well I didn't see a PVE equivalent so I'm gona include that here too.

 

PVE:

Tanks: This summs it up better than I could: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=687924

Healers: they were fine and still gona be fine, Merc healers could've used a heat management buff, but that's not the most important right now.

DPS:

-Mara changes are awesome in all respect

-DPS sin: we'll have to wait to see if this make their sustained DPS viable in raiding...

-Jugger dps: this just a joke, most RNG spec with the lowest potential dmg from a MELEE SUSTAINED DPS spec is just sheer BS.

 

PVP:

Tanks:

-PTs (not hybrid) are still just optimal but not viable.

-Sins: The new mitigation changes might make them better than Juggers, but a nerf in 1on1 for the lack of heals

-Juggs: no change, but the Sin changes might make them 2nd choice...

Heals:

-a very slight nerf to operatives, while no changes to Merc/Sorc. GJ BW still only 1 healer to go in Arenas...

DPS:

-Dot protection is a good step forward to make dot specs viable, too early to judge for me

-Mara defense nerf is not enough, samshers gona be still top dog and they nerfed the otherwise not that powerfull Carnage and Anni even further

-No Merc/Sorc change still gona leave them as the no.1 who gets marked in an Arena....

-Sin: the changes depending on the magnitude might make them OP, or just leave them as is good initial burst then sh*t sustained

-Juggs: Root for Vengeance is not enough, they are still RNG heavy, cleansable, slows/roots/pushbacks still hinders their dps most.

 

All in all this "balance change" is a big joke. They said they gonna monitor Arenas to see which class needs adjusting yet all the topdogs got away from the nerf hammer again and they didnt buff the underdogs enough or not at all. The Arena class picture not gona change at all (or not much) after 2.5, so I can still shelf my Arsenal Merc and Carnage Mara for months....

[Brunner_Venda]

I feel like the blog about 2.5 patch notes generated a tons of tears, QQ, threads and posts depicting how much people have no clues what the hell they are talking about.

 

Does that include your opinions and QQ as well, or just everyone else's?

 

The combat team has no idea what they are doing.

 

OP healers are a little too survivable and they heal too much. What do they do? They nerf OP DPS by taking cover away. That's just... Why the hell? What are they thinking?

 

Maras hit too hard. What do they do? They nerf undying, completely missing the target.

 

Sins need better energy management and shorter cooldowns so they can do better sustained DPS, they already do the best burst in the game. What do the devs do? They buff maul... Just... So much stupid it makes my head hurt.

 

The problem isn't necessarily the players, the combat team started this stupidity. Given a choice of how to fix something, they always seem to pick the wrong thing.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Brunner_Venda

[Sharee]

Snipers should've been toned down also, but no changes for them.

 

Since the devs mentioned before that snipers have too much damage/utility, i suspect the no-changes in 2.5 mean they are still working on them and the changes will come at a later date.

[JackNader]

Overall, I think the changes were poorly thought out. There really doesn't seem to be any thought given to how these changes interact with other classes.

 

The first change - sorc dots not being able to be cleansed via purge. This is a heavy nerf to all sorcerer specs. They are the only class that is capable of actively purging force dots. This will put a lot of health pressure on all sorcerer specs. Sorc on sorc duels will suck. Madness will gain a significant advantage over lightning. Hybrids might gain a boost depending how high up in the tree the ability is.

 

Vengeance ravage root - Again, the only specs that this will impact are DPS sorcerers. They do not have any means of breaking the root. It won't affect powertechs, mercs, operatives, jugs, marauders or snipers. So we now have a double wammy on sorcs.

 

Assassin tank changes, while I think are necessary, is basically turning back the clock and encouraging tank sins in DPS gear. The damage potential of tank sins is greatly beyond that of the other 2 tank specs. They hit like mac trucks while in DPS gear.

 

I can also see a lot of people running dark charge and just lol maul spamming. At least that can be easily prevented by locking duplicity to surging charge.

 

Increasing Maul damage is hilarious to me. I don't know what exactly the devs are smoking. It's like they don't even play the game. Deception suffers from 2 problems. First it's a regstar pro class. It is absolutely godlike in regs because all your doing is bursting. You never ever get to the sustained damage phase. You get 6 auto crit force attacks and a maul that hits stupidly hard and can be spammed liberally while darkswell is up. You also gain the ability to stunlock your target and a shroud which prevents you being stunned while burning your target down in a very small number of GCD's.

 

The other issue is caused by exactly the same problem. Because it is loaded with stuns and burst, the spec was given pretty horrendous sustained damage. This makes it a terrible PVE DPS class and also pretty useless choice for Arena's. The spec needs less stuns and more sustained damage. It doesn't need more maul damage.

 

Annihilation changes - All good changes

 

Rage Marauder changes - Will not have any effect whatsoever. The thing that makes smash marauder overpowered is its ability to stall for time. The cool downs which allow the spec to do this are fear, undying rage and camo. Essentially you can leap in and autocrit smash-> fear -> force crush. You gain 6 seconds while you wait for your autocrit smash to come back online. If you get mobbed.. no worries, camo will buy you another 4 seconds and undying rage with a heal stim will buy you at least another 10 seconds. In that time you will get off 3 autocrit smashes while being surrounded by 5 - 6 guys.

 

The revamped undying rage won't have a huge impact. It will slightly impact the survivability of the mara over long drawn out fights.

 

Operative crouch changes took away a lot of utility from DPS operatives. Crouching was very useful for kiting. They are now even more in the **** than they were which is saying a lot. If you're going to take away the cover mechanic then you have to remove the cover requirement on explosive probe and give DPS operatives some decent survivability cool downs.

Edited October 18, 2013 by JackNader

[HeavyMetil]

The dev team has total downs. They will kill the game, the players are already slowing dropping. Just buff smash and maul more. Edited October 18, 2013 by HeavyMetil

[Cretinus]

I'd like to know why is it that the devs hate sorcs/sages so much!

 

Vengeance/ravage root is a slap in the face for sorcs/sages who were already dying like flies to knights/warries anyway.

 

Purge immunity of some DOTs is nothing but an indirect nerf to sorcs/sages, since they were the only ones that could purge them anyway.

 

Buff to maul is a further slap in the face for the squishiest class in game (sages/sorcs).

 

 

All this and not one single aid to survivability or kiting. Meaning that while sorcs/sages stay as squishy as they were, the melee traing gets buffed towards more uptime and hitting even harder.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Cretinus

[MidichIorian]

It improved some specs but it didnt deal with the general disparity and I strongly believe that it made sorcs/sages worse. Edited October 18, 2013 by MidichIorian

[lmogsy]

As a balance Sage I am really happy with our change. It is currently very frustrating to fight a lightning sorc with them cleansing our dots and then using superior burst to kill us.

In pvp as a dps it often feels like a choice between high burst but easily shutdown and highly immobile telekinetic, or mobile but easily shutdown (due to cleansing) sustained dps balance. This is a massive QOL improvement for us and is not bad for all sage specs as someone above said because you can still cleanse a lightning sorc's affliction to prevent the guaranteed crit on TB.

DOT protection also helps reduce the incentive to just dot everyone and actually play the spec as single target dps, as intended.

[MidichIorian]

As a balance Sage I am really happy with our change. It is currently very frustrating to fight a lightning sorc with them cleansing our dots and then using superior burst to kill us.

In pvp as a dps it often feels like a choice between high burst but easily shutdown and highly immobile telekinetic, or mobile but easily shutdown (due to cleansing) sustained dps balance. This is a massive QOL improvement for us and is not bad for all sage specs as someone above said because you can still cleanse a lightning sorc's affliction to prevent the guaranteed crit on TB.

DOT protection also helps reduce the incentive to just dot everyone and actually play the spec as single target dps, as intended.

I'm trying to avoid the L2P phrase but if you, as a balance, sage can't take down lightning/tele you really need to L2P. You do know that you can simply interrupt and break LOS, right? RIGHT?

[AlrikFassbauer]

Sorcs must continue to Heal to Full while using LOS and Making Them Pay. That we received any adjustment at all is a pure accident of sharing a tree with Madness Sins, who are in turn getting a buff in response to the Jedi Shadow class questions.

 

I agree. Sorcs/Sages remain fully untouched - it is by pure chance that they got a thing from the Assassin/Shadows trees ...

[Wainamoinen]

It barely hurts when they nerf me anymore. Edited October 18, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[Aerilas]

That's it.

After 2.5 I don't know if I'm continuing any longer. This is just utter ********. And I actually love this game, I've forgiven them thusfar with their idiotic insults at pvp balance. But not anymore.

Bioware has no grasp whatsoever at class balance.

Feedback from players is NOT listened to.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Aerilas

[DarthMaulUK]

Im left wondering if Bioware actually PLAY their own game. If these small updates is what everyone has been waiting for, then it;s RIP SWTOR because it just won't attract or retain most of its player base

[lmogsy]

I'm trying to avoid the L2P phrase but if you, as a balance, sage can't take down lightning/tele you really need to L2P. You do know that you can simply interrupt and break LOS, right? RIGHT?

 

I'm not saying that balance sages (or me) can't take down lightning, but if you LOS a lightning sorc, you also LOS yourself, which gives them an opportunity to cleanse your dots, then they can use their superior burst when you pop back out to reapply your dots. And ofc you interrupt TB but they also have superior burst just through LS/CL. This change will make killing lightning sorcs pretty easy with putting up dots and then LOS'ing them.

[Vember]

 

I hate the loss of sin healing, will ruin my solo play on my tankasin.

 

This really aggravates the crap out of me. If I wanted to play an Immortal Jug, I would've rolled one.

 

The rest of the changes look good to me, although I dont' think they've done enough to bring Annihilation/Watchman back up to par with the other Marauder/Sentinel specs, but that assassin/shadow tank change pisses me off more than anything.

[Technohic]

I am more OK with them knowing that it's not a full out balance patch and they intend to do tweaks more regularly. If they do, in fact, tweak more often in smaller bits like this, then I have no problem with it. I just am used to them having such a long period in between which I think would make these adjustments very lackluster to just leave it at that.