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Feedback: Don't Nerf classes into Extinction

DkSharktooth

By DkSharktooth
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DkSharktooth

DkSharktooth

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Throughout SWTOR history, there has been a nerf cycle for classes that just seem way to overpowered. This is fine and expected. The problem with these nerfs however is that BW seems to Over-Nerf classes into extinction. What does this mean? Well let's look at the opertive nerfs, mercenary nerfs, powertech nerfs (and mirror classes). Note the change in population after these mega-nerfs. The nerfs usually are so crippling, last so long, and never get adjusted for months at a time to the point where the playerbase that played these classes has the choice to either leave their beloved favorite class and reroll and grind it all again on another class, or just unsub.

 

I would like for BW to take into consideration the above paragraph before further Over-Nerfing classes in the future. I'm sure your sub numbers can back up that information as well as the reasons why people may have stated for leaving SWTOR, aside from not enough endgame content in the past.

 

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TL;DR - Nerfs are supposed to be minor tweaks to a class that may perform a little to well. However, don't go and cripple classes and destroy them completely, such as what happened to dps operatives, mercenarys, and powertechs, to the point where people unsub because their class isn't useful anymore.

Edited by DkSharktooth
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DkSharktooth

DkSharktooth

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Marauder player detected

 

I lol'd. That was a nice joke.

 

I play Merc, Sniper, Marauder, Sorc. I've had alot of friends leave swtor after a very extensive nerf cycle in which they didn't enjoy their class anymore, along with the rest of the population shunning it from the rated scene. I just hope mega nerfs don't happen again, I don't think the swtor population can handle another dip in players. If it will be a nerf to marauders, so be it, I just hope BW understands that a large portion of their population probably has one by now and if it becomes useless, well there will be another huge dip in subs.

Edited by DkSharktooth
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JestersRevenge

JestersRevenge

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Marauder player detected

 

Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing. Having played with and against him in one form or another on our old server, he does very well with whatever class he plays, and was a Merc long before turning to other classes. The point is valid, they destroy classes to the point they're unplayable, forcing re-rolls. Maybe that's just part of a nefarious scheme to keep making money, but my bet is on their flawed metrics. They just need a scalpel to fix some of these things, not a sledge hammer. Hopefully discussions with the community via the class Reps yields some results :(.

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TonyDragonflame

TonyDragonflame

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I don't think the swtor population can handle another dip in players. If it will be a nerf to marauders, so be it, I just hope BW understands that a large portion of their population probably has one by now and if it becomes useless, well there will be another huge dip in subs.

 

I agree with you.

Where is my scrapper scoundrel after 1.3? Where is my assault vanguard after 2.0? Where is my hybrid tank guardian after 2.0? Where is my watchman sentinel after 1.4? Where is my hybrid tank vanguard after 2.4.0a?

Too many nerfs of my beloved specs seems too much for me now. I am bored because this. I think, I have enough nerfs of specs classes what i love to play this mmo.

Edited by TonyDragonflame
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LaVall

LaVall

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It's why Bioware should make several small class balancing adjustments every other minor patch or so, rather than huge nerfs/buffs every 6 months. Some major changes have been for the better, like the pyrotech range nerf way back and the improvements to gunnery/arsenal. However we've also suffered through months of stunbubble, seen the demise of concealment, and left commandos without a single viable spec for ranked warzones for nearly a year.
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DkSharktooth

DkSharktooth

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If you read the Dev answers to the Mercenary class they talked about nerfs to Marauders and Snipers. Those are much needed. It seems that PvE is what ultimately brought it to their attention too. It was inevitable.

 

The point of my thread is that small nerfs are ok, just don't go overboard and make the class sub par and useless to the point where nobody plays it anymore.

Edited by DkSharktooth
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Ren_simp

Ren_simp

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Don't nerf buff I want to play vigilance and not feel like I'm gimping myself and my team

 

IMO from an arena stand point sages dps/heals, gunslingers, commandos heals/dps and scoundrels (dps only), need some buff attention

Edited by Ren_simp
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Ren_simp

Ren_simp

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gunslingers? no....

 

I know that many smashers when they aren't going to be able to take on 3+ people and kill 2 will complain they are nerfed, but they never should've been able to do that anyway.

 

Snipers I expected them to be a problem but they drop easy, sure they'll own you If you get caught out in the open

But there's plenty of Los in the maps to handle them.

 

The only way smasher are killing 2-3 player at once is poor positioning and bad play.

Edited by Ren_simp
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maverickmatt

maverickmatt

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Don't nerf buff I want to play vigilance and not feel like I'm gimping myself and my team

 

IMO from an arena stand point sages dps/heals, gunslingers, commandos heals/dps and scoundrels (dps only), need some buff attention

 

Learn to play Vigilance properly and you won't gimp your team. Vigilance doesn't need a damage buff.. or a stupid root on Master Strike. It only ever needed a shortened CD on leap, and not a drastically shorter one, maybe a 3 second reduction. .

 

 

Your smash gear is NOT itemized for Vigilance. You have to have some crit and accuracy for it to work optimally, and you must stay on top of the procs or miss out. I hear that Vigilance has no burst but.... it does.

 

 

This is the problem. A spec requires a bit more effort and concentration, and players call for buffs. Eventually they DO get buffed and then they're overpowered until they get nerfed into the dirt.

Edited by maverickmatt
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Ren_simp

Ren_simp

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Learn to play Vigilance properly and you won't gimp your team. Vigilance doesn't need a damage buff.. or a stupid root on Master Strike. It only ever needed a shortened CD on leap, and not a drastically shorter one, maybe a 3 second reduction. .

 

 

Your smash gear is NOT itemized for Vigilance. You have to have some crit and accuracy for it to work optimally, and you must stay on top of the procs or miss out. I hear that Vigilance has no burst but.... it does.

 

 

This is the problem. A spec requires a bit more effort and concentration, and players call for buffs. Eventually they DO get buffed and then they're overpowered until they get nerfed into the dirt.

 

Ok keep telling yourself that...

I pull high numbers as vigilance it's my favorite spec I had 2 sets of conquer gear each itemized perfectly for vigilance and focus and though testing found my focus full power set does more damage than my crit orientated vig set

But it still doesn't cut it it's damage plateaus and can be easily managed by competent healers

Burst has alway been essential to successful melee pvp, sustained damage without any mechanic to ramp up for some burst will alway be subpar and no lucky procc on ms reset is not reliable burst.

 

I would like for vigilance is a 20% heal debuff attached to overhead slash

And to boost its damage so it crit 8-10k reliably

Edited by Ren_simp
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earthwalker

earthwalker

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Throughout SWTOR history, there has been a nerf cycle for classes that just seem way to overpowered. This is fine and expected. The problem with these nerfs however is that BW seems to Over-Nerf classes into extinction. What does this mean? Well let's look at the opertive nerfs, mercenary nerfs, powertech nerfs (and mirror classes). Note the change in population after these mega-nerfs. The nerfs usually are so crippling, last so long, and never get adjusted for months at a time to the point where the playerbase that played these classes has the choice to either leave their beloved favorite class and reroll and grind it all again on another class, or just unsub.

 

I would like for BW to take into consideration the above paragraph before further Over-Nerfing classes in the future. I'm sure your sub numbers can back up that information as well as the reasons why people may have stated for leaving SWTOR, aside from not enough endgame content in the past.

 

-----

TL;DR - Nerfs are supposed to be minor tweaks to a class that may perform a little to well. However, don't go and cripple classes and destroy them completely, such as what happened to dps operatives, mercenarys, and powertechs, to the point where people unsub because their class isn't useful anymore.

 

I couldn't have put it better myself! 100% your opinion ! I play none of the OP classes right now, but thats excactly what happens all the time: Over-Nerfing. Please listen Bioware !

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AdrianDmitruk

AdrianDmitruk

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Don't forget 1.2 sorc nerf. After 1.2 a lot of sorc healers (me included) rerolled ops. Bubblestun was a bandaid to try to fix that lol. So it was overnerf followed by ill-conceived buff.

 

And all that because bioware couldn't figure out how to fix a double proc bug for instant cast dark infusion proc, sound familiar? :rolleyes:

 

Now 2.0 tried to buff sorcs in some areas but the hand that giveth also taketh away as proven by unnecessary whirlwind nerf and lockup of electric bindings 30 points up in the tree. The result left sorcs in ok position (not foty but not the worst either) for 8v8s but in arenas...yeah I'm still trying to figure out how to make heal sorc viable.

 

It seems like I just have to respec based on team comp (do I have a tank or 3 dps?) before the group queues, and if I dare solo queue I just take my chances with hybrid troll spec. But ofc it's harder and harder to get arena pops to test as everyone who's not in FOTY premades gives up on the queue because Bioware hasn't attempted class balance in six months and classes that were a bit OP in 8v8 become massively OP in 4v4 where there is less room for non-optimal class in team comp.

 

(and bioware wonders why they couldn't get adequate sample size for their metrics on pts? lolol see above plz)

Edited by AdrianDmitruk
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NathanielStarr

NathanielStarr

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It's the defenses that have to go for Marauders. You shouldn't be able to be a tank and a dps all in one. Guilds showing off how easily teams of all marauders or all snipers easily took down high level content is what leads to the incoming nerf. Bioware might not care about PvP, but they do care about PvE.
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RomichGausser

RomichGausser

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The moment Bioware hints at sniper and marauder nerfs, people come running and begging to be "reasonable" to their class with "small nerfs".

I have been playing my operative as concealment since they've nerfed hidden strike and acid blade few weeks after the launch. I've felt and still do the pain of every nerf my class' dps specs received. Sorcerers felt the pain and still do due to their overall nerfs.

No, buddy. Its not gonna work like that. Now its the turn of every smash baboon and sniper finally feel the pain of the nerf bat. Just to make it fair, no?

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