Koozie's AP Guide

[Kooziejr]

UPDATED FOR GAME UPDATE 2.4

 

Koozie's AP guide for PvP

Hi everyone,

 

A few people over the past few weeks have asked me a lot about AP since I made a video. A few even asked for a guide so because I am getting sick of explaining it I thought I would just put it on the forums.

 

For those of you who don't know me (probably everyone :-P) you can check out my PvP vid to see what AP is capable of and the fun you can have with it:

 

..so here it is....

 

How to play Advanced Prototype in PvP, from basics to double solos!

 

Gear and Build

Cylinder - HEGC

Build - Run the 8, 36, 2 build. (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsMMRrRRkGGzZb.3)

Gear - Get the 4 piece Combat Tech Gear. Run critical chance to ~ 250 (some people like to run full power and no crit and that is fine too), surge to maximum (>640), power to maximum, 0 accuracy (you should be on 94% from your build - I don't miss railshots on anything other than snipers and tanks). Make sure you use aim augments. When fully geared you should have approx. 3050 aim.

 

Basic rotation, opener and how to use Flamethrower (FT)

 

Rotation on single target - Retractable blade, immolate, rocket punch railshot, FB, FB, flamethrower (this rotation is not arbitrary as one things procs another- although immolate and rocket punch are interchangable because of the low RP cooldown).

 

Opener - As you inevitably start 30m from an opponent open with explosive dart, as you move closer you can spam rapid shots when you get within 10m try not to use flame burst or immolate because you are going to be within 4 metres before the end of the next GCD. Therefore, wait .5 of a second and just use retractable blade when you get to 4m (retractable blade is actually an excellent move [straight up damage, 50% slow, and a good bleed that buffs the rest of your damage on that target] - lots of people haven't figured it out yet).

 

Flamethrower? - Flamethrower is actually really hard to use and is a sense of great frustration for people starting this spec. However, AP is actually an extremely good single target rotational spec without flamethrower so do not go into AP with the mentality that I MUST USE FLAMETHROWER every time I have 3 stacks of PFT and it is off cooldown. For example, in a 1 v 1 against an AOE damage reduction class, flamethrower is low priority unless you are trying to coax them into blowing a cooldown. In a 2 v 1 or in a group fight flamethrower is number 1 priority when you are going to hit more than 1 person with it. Wait for the right situation before you start spamming a channel because it is easily mezzed, knocked back, stunned in which you have to wait another 15 seconds before trying again. Position yourself - try not to stand 1m away from 3 people you are trying to AOE (people don't like that and generally throw out an AOE mez even if they are noobs). Time your cooldowns - for example, carbonizing a group of enemies and then moving 8 meters away before activating your channel will eight times of ten give you the desired result. Further, carbonize, explosive fuel, and then flamethrower is an excellent move on greater than 2 targets (that move can seriously change a game if team mates are aware it is coming). Remember, when channeling on sorcs, mercs, snipers etc it can be a good idea to hit hydraulic override prior to avoid knockbacks (try not to do this in very tight matches, you will need this cooldown elsewhere). Even very good players still try and knock you back with hydraulic override active so it wastes their cooldown while maximising your DPS.

 

Using your Cooldowns

Energy shield - Anytime someone starts tunneling you, use this! Don't save it for later because it is on an effective 50 second cooldown in a proper match.

Explosive fuel - Try to time with 7 shoulder cannons being active. Further, before activating it make sure your retractable blade dot is on at least 2 people (preferably tank and healer). Make sure you use PFT when explosive fuel is active. Remember that rail shot is an auto crit so if you're a super pro you can wait until it ends before you use it (I neglect this because railshot is a high priority move and I like to use it every 15 seconds).

Kolto overload - Don't activate the monitor when you're at 50% unless you are getting a huge amount of focus fire.... why this may save your life sometimes if you get stun locked below 35% - it will more often end in a wasted cooldown. In 1 v 1 cases I use kolto at around 25%. Doesn't always work, but more often than not allows me to win the duel.

Shoulder cannon - Use them, don't save them. Blow people up with that burst. As mentioned earlier, try to time if with explosive fuel. However, if explosive fuel is 1 minute away USE YOUR SHOULDER CANNONS . 7 shoulder cannons in 7 seconds is ideal. Don't just throw 1 in every few seconds - you will never kill anything.

Hydraulic override - This cooldown can be used both offensively and defensively and it depends on your opposition and your team composition. If your team isn't dying and it is a stale mate or you are slowly wiping the other team then you can use this cooldown very aggressively. Run at healers and ranged dps and just stand on top of them for 10 seconds while dropping all your **** on them. If your team is light on for heals or the other team is slowly wiping your team then you need to save this to get away! Activate it on around 45% and start retreating for heals and LOS with it. Good PTs use LOS when they are getting focus fire!

Trinket/Determinaiton - AP is unique (well, not truly unique because madness sorcs have this ability too) but while stunned we take less damage. There are many tricks to playing AP but this is probably one of the most important so read carefully! AP takes less damage while stunned by 30% (This is a huge damage reduction). Anytime you are taking focus fire in a match and get stunned - DO NOT use determination if you cannot mitigate the damage a better way out of the stun. As a general rule (especially in huttball) I never use my cc breaker unless I get stunned in the fire - this also makes you a massive asset for carrying the ball as your trinket is always up. Do not just instinctively break CC because you do that on your other classes. Assess the situation (e.g., was it a 1.5 second stun or a 2.5 second stun or was it a 4 second stun?) Don't use your CC breaker on carbonize or Sin/Shadow/Op/Scoundrel knockdown (in fact, that goes for every class). Use it on 4 second stuns when breaking the stun will increase your chances of survival, you can mitigate more damage by using hydraulic override to get away, you need to protect an objective, or help a friendly. Again, assess the situation before using your breaker.

Adrenals - Use them! You are a heavy armour and with an adrenal running it makes you an undesirable target.

Flame sweep - Get your free procs on PFT before going into battle by using flame sweep.

Kiting - Try to kite other melee DPS. The idea of the rotation for AP is to get in and use RB to slow them and use all your 4m abilities and then move back out to 10m while you kite them. It is an extremely effective strategy.

Thermal Sensor Override and Vent Heat - Use thermal sensor override on 25 heat abilities when you have already started building heat (i.e., not when you have 0 heat because by the end of a 3 second channel you will virtually have 0 heat anyways when HEGC is active). Use vent heat when you are >50 heat. When bursting I often overheat myself on purpose to 55-60 and immediately vent heat and continue with burst damage and no fillers.

2 v 1s? It is next to impossible to kill 2 good players in a 2 v 1 - that doesn't happen. It is hard enough to kill another good player in a 1 v 1. However, against average players it is possible by exploiting their poor knowledge of your class and your excellent knowledge of theirs. Attack people who don't have cooldowns running, apply your dots to both targets, make sure you get them both in your AOE, AOE stun both targets, kite them if they are melee. If it is 1 ranged and 1 melee then attack the ranged first and bring them together OR LOS the ranged while attacking the melee - just use your brain depending on the situation. If there are 2 ranged then good luck to you - it is hard so use LOS!

Grapple - Pull in an enemy to team mates who have used their cooldowns (eg mara without FC/UR/Mez; sorc without force barrier; sin with no vanish or resilience etc). You will kill people very quickly if you take note of which enemies have just used cooldowns.

Stuns - Use your common sense. Just like hydraulic override, they can be used offensively and defensively. It all depends on your situation. Don't waste them at the start of a fight because they are active.

Taunts - Make sure you single target taunt enemy DPS on cooldown and use your AOE taunt to protect people getting focussed.

 

Random stuff

 

Missile blast & Unload - Use unload when you need to play defensively and are retreating for heals. Yes it isn't massive damage but it costs a small amount of heat and is a lot better than rapid shots. Use missile blast on snipers running away (hilarious) and to stop spam caps. Make sure both of these keys are bound. I sometimes go 2 - 3 warzones without using either of them but there have been some warzones when I have used missile blast 5-10 times to stop spam caps.

 

Relics - I use the Obroan Relic of Serendipitous Assault (power relic) and either the Critical rating Relic of Main statistic relic.

 

If I missed important information or you have a specific question then go for it. I will add it.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Kooziejr

[Discoteck]

Should add what you do when a assassin or op opens on you

[Noodlegotagun]

Thanks, I might try this.

 

I would assume if a stealther opens on you, usually with a stun, as they said. let the DR while stunned do it's job, slow them down, drop your 4M abilities, and start kiting. Just hazarding a guess. I could be totally wrong though, but that seems to be the theme of the guide anyway. XD

Edited September 12, 2013 by Noodlegotagun

[Kooziejr]

Should add what you do when a assassin or op opens on you

 

Pretty much what he said. Use your trinket on the second stun - you can't just eat four seconds of unopposed damage in a 1 v 1 unless you have already hit explosive fuel and your rockets are firing. Always, try to counter after the 1.5 initial stun with an instant carbonize or start with retractable blade..... have a dot running on them all the time and when a Sin hits shroud just run away from them (don't even face them) - and also put explosive dart on them (it is a timed attack so it will explode when force shroud ends). As I said, make sure the dot is always running so they cannot re stealth try and catch them with your stealth scan if they do (hopefully if it doesn't the dot will). If they get away try to heal yourself if they left you out of combat. TBH I beat most sins and ops in 1 v 1 but I think the best sins and ops would beat me because the class just has a big advantage. Note. hydraulic override stops the sin/operative knockdown, so it you foresee it coming then hit hydraulics!

[Nemmesiss]

Hi Koozi, I don't suppose you have a link to an askmrrobot gear layout showing how you got the stats you have do you? Whenever I try I get a lot lower Crit and slightly lower Aim.

 

Cheers

Edited September 13, 2013 by Nemmesiss

[madcappah]

I have more fun DPSing on my AP PT than all of my other DPS 55s. Granted, my DPS numbers usually are not at the top of the charts but I often get over 600k while doing decent protection from taunts.

 

It's nice to see somebody explain everything in words, I pretty much knew most of this but it's nice to see someone explain what I've been doing. Thank you.

 

 

Retractable blade is also a great help in Voidstar. When the doors open, I start switching targets while spamming retractable blade. The slow attached to it helps tremendously to get the following doors. Between that and grapple you can really slow the progress of your enemies.

 

In Huttball, if you are on the platforms and near the center and the ball gets thrown to you, you can pop your hydraulic overrides. With the 4 second extension added to your hydraulic overrides, most of the time you can walk right in to the endzone from there. I do it all the time. Of course a hard stun can still stop you in the fire but I find I make it to score more often than not.

Edited September 13, 2013 by madcappah

[DarthOvertone]

Pretty decent guide.

[Ifrit]

Rocket Punch and Immolate are not interchangeable on the opener. Immolate makes Rocket Punch free.

[Ifrit]

Another big tip: Use hydraulic override before using Flamethrower. Prevents you from being knocked back and interrupted.

[Kooziejr]

Rocket Punch and Immolate are not interchangeable on the opener. Immolate makes Rocket Punch free.

 

Hey man. Cheers for the other tip but I had pointed that out in my guide about hydraulic override before a channel. And actually, RP and Imm are interchangeable because of the low cooldown on rocket punch. If you think about it. You are more beneficial to use the "Free" rocket punch later in the rotation then just 3rd (when you have a very small amount of heat. In any case, because of the low cooldown on RP compared to Imm Rocket punch eventually catches Imm so, on average, you stop getting free RPs every 3rd rotation!!! And thus, over a long fight it is irrelevant which one came first.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Kooziejr

[dijskykiller]

Rocket Punch and Immolate are not interchangeable on the opener. Immolate makes Rocket Punch free.

 

They are as you would use RP to proc auto-crit or when you are waiting for your heat to build up in a few secs.

 

Another big tip: Use hydraulic override before using Flamethrower. Prevents you from being knocked back and interrupted.

 

This one is very predictable. Too inside the box. It will always work on regular players, but with skilled ones you will just end up getting stunned. And you will just waste 2 abilities at once. In fact, i no longer use HO pre-PFT as my chances of getting all ticks are higher with the element of surprise.

Edited September 16, 2013 by dijskykiller

[Ottoattack]

Just a general question. Contrast to the build mentioned earlier, I have been running, http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhMZrsMMRMRRkGGz.3, where I dropped the RP 8% damage bonus from the pyro tree and the free RP with immolate from AP tree for armor bonus in AP tree and tank tree. I feel the additional 5 armor you pick up is great and makes the spec tremendously survivable, with sacrificing too little on the damage side. I also find it useful in tanking situations, in which you run ion cylinder (VS defense round, HB).

 

Do you think I am sacrificing much on the damage side, considering the defense gained?

Edited September 16, 2013 by Ottoattack

[jillun]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMcrMRRRRkGGzZb.3

 

Think about it : Flame barrage will almost always proc, and our heat never goes that high with hegc annyway.

Prototype cylinders is just a ridiculous talent to have with hegc (1% increase, really bioware?6% instead of 5 %, what a waste).

 

Do not take talents with 1point = 1%, it's almost always pathetic.

 

Just my two cents.

[jillun]

double post Edited September 17, 2013 by jillun

[Ifrit]

They are as you would use RP to proc auto-crit or when you are waiting for your heat to build up in a few secs.

 

 

 

This one is very predictable. Too inside the box. It will always work on regular players, but with skilled ones you will just end up getting stunned. And you will just waste 2 abilities at once. In fact, i no longer use HO pre-PFT as my chances of getting all ticks are higher with the element of surprise.

 

I agree, you can't bank on HO pre-FT. However in certain situations it is also very useful to try and get all ur FT ticks on. I also don't understand your suggestion to wait to proc auto crit? Railshot. Care to elaborate? We were taking specifically about the opening rotation I thought? Maybe later in based on cd,s? Sorry for typos on iPad :-)

[Kooziejr]

Hi Koozi, I don't suppose you have a link to an askmrrobot gear layout showing how you got the stats you have do you? Whenever I try I get a lot lower Crit and slightly lower Aim.

 

Cheers

 

Hey man, you have to keep in mind I was wearing a stim, have all the cunning, aim, and endurance datacrons, and have maxed my companions to full (+1 crit, +1 surge, +1 accuracy).

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMcrMRRRRkGGzZb.3

 

Think about it : Flame barrage will almost always proc, and our heat never goes that high with hegc annyway.

Prototype cylinders is just a ridiculous talent to have with hegc (1% increase, really bioware?6% instead of 5 %, what a waste).

 

Do not take talents with 1point = 1%, it's almost always pathetic.

 

Just my two cents.

 

This is a very good build, I agree. In defence of the 1%. Your role is to maximize everything in terms of damage. If you tank would you not take 1% damage reduction? Its just a "perception problem" because it used to be 3% :-P. In any case, I agree, most the time the flame barrage would proc but if it doesn't it would screw your dps considerably. The 2 points in electrodart is a good idea. That's the only thing in the skills tree I wish I had (and maybe the damage debuff)

 

Just a general question. Contrast to the build mentioned earlier, I have been running, http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhMZrsMMRMRRkGGz.3, where I dropped the RP 8% damage bonus from the pyro tree and the free RP with immolate from AP tree for armor bonus in AP tree and tank tree. I feel the additional 5 armor you pick up is great and makes the spec tremendously survivable, with sacrificing too little on the damage side. I also find it useful in tanking situations, in which you run ion cylinder (VS defense round, HB).

 

Do you think I am sacrificing much on the damage side, considering the defense gained?

 

Your role as a DPS is to DPS. AP has massive survivability already - adding extra armour and 2% damage reduction is not helpful to your ability to DPS. The build is okay but if you want to blow people up 8% on rocket punch is massive- It turns a 4.4k hit into a 5k hit - has a 45% crit chance and is off cooldown every 9 seconds. Therefore you are sacrificing significant DPS in order to have a little more defense. I think the 2 points in power armour are okay (but better spent in flame barrage for sustained DPS (YOU NEED THAT SKILL for sustained DPS). And the 2 points in 16% armour compared to 8% rocket punch is not really a comparison. You will probably get an extra 2 or 3% armour which in terms of overall damage reduction (considering many things bypass armour - e.g., internal, elemental, armour pen abilities) is not very significant for a DPS.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Kooziejr

[Maliceminded]

@Koozie,

 

I just wanna say thank you man. I just came back after a couple years off, deleted all of my 50s because I wanted to start from utter scratch, and I always wanted to roll a DPS PT. been slewing through the forums in utter disgust and disappointment seeing all this **** talking about the DPS PT (granted we may very well need love).....until I read this thread and watched both of your pvp compilation vids. You've renewed my faith in the class. Watched you CONSISTENTLY down classes 1v1 that are supposed to have the overwhelming "advantage" and even 2v1. If YOU are doing it and handling business, which you clearly are, this class is obviously capable. I really appreciate this post bro.

[Kooziejr]

@Koozie,

 

I just wanna say thank you man. I just came back after a couple years off, deleted all of my 50s because I wanted to start from utter scratch, and I always wanted to roll a DPS PT. been slewing through the forums in utter disgust and disappointment seeing all this **** talking about the DPS PT (granted we may very well need love).....until I read this thread and watched both of your pvp compilation vids. You've renewed my faith in the class. Watched you CONSISTENTLY down classes 1v1 that are supposed to have the overwhelming "advantage" and even 2v1. If YOU are doing it and handling business, which you clearly are, this class is obviously capable. I really appreciate this post bro.

 

Appreciate that man. AP PT is probably in a good place from 2.4 and pyro is pretty okay now too (CGC nerf is a bit lame but apart from that it is fine). Basically, because PT was so overpowered pre 1.7 to the point where every other class *****ed about it pretty much non stop people think that until it returns to such a state it will be "underpowered". It truly is just a mindset. In saying that, until 2.4 pyro was actually complete garbage with heat management and defensive cooldowns - the damage is fine in both AP and Pyro (but perhaps pyro is not that viable in ranked). When you just solo Q and pug like I do a lot of the time you can play either and be really happy with them. No one will beat you in a 1 v 1 if you are a good player unless you happen to come up against an equally good player of a class with a 1 v 1 advantage. Just enjoy the class unless you are doing high end ranked - and even then AP and Tank are still viable and will thrive. People who say otherwise just don't know how to play the class properly - plain and simple. You will notice 95% of complaining is done by people who don't actually know how to play any class properly (though, they think they do).

[Maliceminded]

Appreciate that man. AP PT is probably in a good place from 2.4 and pyro is pretty okay now too (CGC nerf is a bit lame but apart from that it is fine). Basically, because PT was so overpowered pre 1.7 to the point where every other class *****ed about it pretty much non stop people think that until it returns to such a state it will be "underpowered". It truly is just a mindset. In saying that, until 2.4 pyro was actually complete garbage with heat management and defensive cooldowns - the damage is fine in both AP and Pyro (but perhaps pyro is not that viable in ranked). When you just solo Q and pug like I do a lot of the time you can play either and be really happy with them. No one will beat you in a 1 v 1 if you are a good player unless you happen to come up against an equally good player of a class with a 1 v 1 advantage. Just enjoy the class unless you are doing high end ranked - and even then AP and Tank are still viable and will thrive. People who say otherwise just don't know how to play the class properly - plain and simple. You will notice 95% of complaining is done by people who don't actually know how to play any class properly (though, they think they do).

 

absolutely agree with the last part of your post. i printed out and read over your guide and damage rotations and of course threw my own playstyle into it and I gotta say people need to quit complaining. if since lvl 30 ive been consistently pulling 500+k dps out of WZ's and 2-5 solo kills per warzone average....I have no complaints.

[Brunner_Venda]

AP is good 1v1 against everyone except for assassins. By the time you get up off the floor, your average sin has already taken 60% of your health. I could use some advice on fighting them.

 

Mercs can be killed but the really good ones are tricky. The good ones will push you away, hit overrides and e-net you. Then you have to stand there and take heat seekers, rail shots, and tracer missiles until the e-net wears off or the merc's overrides do so you can pull. Not a fun proposition either way, but you have to be really aware of what's happening. If you run around with e-net on it's over, and likewise you can't waste your pull.

[KainrycKarr]

AP is good 1v1 against everyone except for assassins. By the time you get up off the floor, your average sin has already taken 60% of your health. I could use some advice on fighting them.

 

Mercs can be killed but the really good ones are tricky. The good ones will push you away, hit overrides and e-net you. Then you have to stand there and take heat seekers, rail shots, and tracer missiles until the e-net wears off or the merc's overrides do so you can pull. Not a fun proposition either way, but you have to be really aware of what's happening. If you run around with e-net on it's over, and likewise you can't waste your pull.

 

I can't say I've had a problem with mercs on my AP, but on my merc I've utterly trashed multiple AP's.

 

The only time I can recall getting undeniably beaten 1v1 was against an assassin, so there may some truth in the quoted post.

[Kooziejr]

AP is good 1v1 against everyone except for assassins. By the time you get up off the floor, your average sin has already taken 60% of your health. I could use some advice on fighting them.

 

The only time I can recall getting undeniably beaten 1v1 was against an assassin, so there may some truth in the quoted post.

 

Guys, you can beat sins. But you can't just go in with the same mentality you do with other classes. I am making a video on how to do this for you guys. Just give me a while - I am a slow worker (probably more lazy). Really you should beat them if you play the class properly. There should only be 1 or 2 sins on your server that will be able to beat you but truly if you play correctly against them you can beat them sometimes. If you're good at AP you will never lose to random sins with your cooldowns active. Don't worry there is hope!

[KainrycKarr]

Guys, you can beat sins. But you can't just go in with the same mentality you do with other classes. I am making a video on how to do this for you guys. Just give me a while - I am a slow worker (probably more lazy). Really you should beat them if you play the class properly. There should only be 1 or 2 sins on your server that will be able to beat you but truly if you play correctly against them you can beat them sometimes. If you're good at AP you will never lose to random sins with your cooldowns active. Don't worry there is hope!

 

Oh no doubt, I've certainly beaten quite a few sins. This one in particular though was very, very good at running in and out of my range while still hitting me. Was actually quite impressive if it wasn't so humiliating lol.

[LordExozone]

Guys, you can beat sins. But you can't just go in with the same mentality you do with other classes. I am making a video on how to do this for you guys. Just give me a while - I am a slow worker (probably more lazy). Really you should beat them if you play the class properly. There should only be 1 or 2 sins on your server that will be able to beat you but truly if you play correctly against them you can beat them sometimes. If you're good at AP you will never lose to random sins with your cooldowns active. Don't worry there is hope!

 

Sins do have a straight up advantage vs Powertechs of any spec. A sin of equal skill and gear should pretty much always beat a powertech. There is a reason they almost always win server dueling tournaments.

[lordnathanial]

Sins do have a straight up advantage vs Powertechs of any spec. A sin of equal skill and gear should pretty much always beat a powertech. There is a reason they almost always win server dueling tournaments.

 

That depends... I have a 54 assassin (waiting on 2.4 for 55) and a really good PT can give u fits if they play themselves right. Kite...and Kite some more. If I get the jump on them thats a different story but I am having fun on my AP PT countering assassins since I know them fairly well. So I think in this case it depends on who is on the keyboard.