The Super Secret Space Project is revealed... or at least teased!

[Arkerus]

Please explain how the rest of this game doesn't feel like it belongs in a Star Wars universe. From this. Furthermore where are the Star Wars ambient sounds? Where is the iconic music while doing your thing on planets? There are very rare, and I mean rare moments where the game feels like it belongs in that universe. You know very well that this game is far from what a Star Wars experience would be. Lightsabers are not enough. It just feels like a Sci-fi MMO. Its all the little details they left out that makes an experience feel like you're a part of that Star Wars universe. Tons of people expressed their frustration about this. Where were you? Without everything else the imagery you describe is useless. Every aspect has to work together to deliver that iconic Star Wars experience. Thats where they fell short. And why I believe they will still fall short with this as well. Understand?

 

No. I don't understand because since day 1, except for some complaints about armor, I think this game feels very much like star wars. I have been here. Since day 1.

 

Forum vocalists do not represent a majority nor should you construct an argument around an assumption.

 

Don't tell me what I know very well. I know very well I am very happy with the "feel" of the product. My post was asking a very simple question. A question based in fact. How are those two iconic cruisers with fighters that look very much like classic star wars fighters, not very star wars-like?

 

You can't actually answer the question. You throw a bunch of buzz phrases around (with a ton of talk about imagery) without any factual definition of what you want to see. Tell me what would make this space combat more star wars like? Tell me.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Arkerus

[The_Grand_Nagus]

My personal opinion is that until this game gets free flight space combat, this is only half a STAR wars game. Here is a blog I wrote about it over an MMORPG.com some time back:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Grand_Nagus/052012/23213_When-will-TOR-actually-be-STAR-wars

 

So I am very happy to see this teaser and I hope it means what most people are assuming it means

[The_Grand_Nagus]

Why don't you go get a job in the industry if you can make a better game?

http://www.bioware.com/careers

 

This made me "LOL" because it is so ridiculous. Hardly anyone who criticizes a game says they could MAKE a better game, only that they think "this or that" should be DONE differently. If you think it is wrong to criticize how something is done unless you are the one doing it, then that rules out every single subject in the world except for the one profession you happen to have. It would mean no one should criticize a president or politician unless they themselves are a president or politician; no one should criticize a religious leader unless they themselves are one. Etc, etc.

[xorcist]

No. I don't understand because since day 1, except for some complaints about armor, I think this game feels very much like star wars. I have been here. Since day 1.

 

Forum vocalists do not represent a majority nor should you construct an argument around an assumption.

 

Don't tell me what I know very well. I know very well I am very happy with the "feel" of the product. My post was asking a very simple question. A question based in fact. How are those two iconic cruisers with fighters that look very much like classic star wars fighters, not very star wars-like?

 

You can't actually answer the question. You throw a bunch of buzz phrases around (with a ton of talk about imagery) without any factual definition of what you want to see. Tell me what would make this space combat more star wars like? Tell me.

 

My post is based on fact. Based on reviews and based on interviews. Not minority. Even the devs admitted and acknowledged the frustrations that this game did not feel enough like Star Wars. They don't know how to make it better but they're looking into it. Which translates to never.

[LordArtemis]

I do think, and have thought for a while, that the game should have more actual "Star Wars" music in it, especially from Ep 4-6. Not that the current music is bad, but it would be nice to get that nostalgia twinge more often.

[Salantross]

My post is based on fact. Based on reviews and based on interviews. Not minority. Even the devs admitted and acknowledged the frustrations that this game did not feel enough like Star Wars. They don't know how to make it better but they're looking into it. Which translates to never.

 

I think the armor is the only thing to be honest, and this is my opinion and the opinion of the group of friends I play with. This is a very different time than the movies, and even a different time than Kinights of the Old Republic. The expanded universe is quite varied. From author to author, time line to timeline, game to game. The Thrawn trilogy does a pretty good job of extending the original trilogy, but aside from that, I feel that Jedi Academy is quite different, etc. The Legacy graphic novels are quite different, and I love those.

 

One of my friends that plays, I'm certain has read almost all the comics, graphic novels, and many of the novels. He goes to many comicons, dresses up, and plays this game, and has never once complained about the "feel" of the game. This guy can basically tell you the background of almost any random character (he always seems to assume I'll know who they are), and goes on for ages.

 

So if you aren't getting that Star Wars feel from the game, well that's fair. I am however. So are a lot of people I know. Nothing is perfect, and everyone's vision is different. This is Star Wars in this period of the Star Wars Universe, at least that's how I look at it- even if it's different from how I would perhaps envisioned some things.

[DarthOvertone]

I can't believe it's real. hehe

[Vis-Tecum]

Even the devs admitted and acknowledged the frustrations that this game did not feel enough like Star Wars. They don't know how to make it better but they're looking into it. Which translates to never.

 

those are some pretty heavy claims with no links to back it up, I'm sure lucus arts, bioware, and the old republic era writers like john Jackson miller do not agree

 

this is the Old Republic not the rebellion things are not the same just because there's not storm troopers and tie fighters every where does not mean it doesn't feel like star wars

 

traditionalist and swg fans have always complained about the old republic era but it is by far not a majority, a lot of people complain that the clone wars era does not feel like star wars too but still it is not a majority, its not up to you or the internet anyway to determine what is star wars, its up to lucas and the star wars authors and contributors, if you know anything about the universe, how is swtor any less star wars then yuuzahn vong and Abeloth?

[Andryah]

This made me "LOL" because it is so ridiculous. Hardly anyone who criticizes a game says they could MAKE a better game, only that they think "this or that" should be DONE differently.

 

That is his entire point.. armchair faux-designers. They like to crit the devs for 5000 with an armchair every chance they get. It's silly. Sure.. every player has their opinion, and more importantly outlook, about the game, but at the end of the day.. you are one among hundreds of thousands.. you are a grain of salt, not a superhero dev crusher.

 

Attitude is incredibly important for most people in establishing whether they enjoy something or dismiss it or hate it. And there is a lot of negative attitude in the forum, absent much objectivity and even more absent any sort of practical understanding at all. And in the era of blame anyone but yourself for your attitude.. the default for many is to blame the devs for what is actually a self-inflicted attitude about the game. It's immature, and it lacks responsibility one generally expects of adults in a civilized society. Internet barbarism is what we are seeing more and more here IMO.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I do think, and have thought for a while, that the game should have more actual "Star Wars" music in it, especially from Ep 4-6. Not that the current music is bad, but it would be nice to get that nostalgia twinge more often.

 

You know.. when I wear my 5.1 headphones and drown out the world around me.. there is so much music in this game it's almost over the top. It's both immersive and has quite a bit if retro-2-the-movies feel to it. You sure you have the volume control on music up in this game?

 

Gear is the only thing IMO that jumps the shark in this game sometimes.. and yet.. there is plenty of choice now days to avoid the travesty that some gear represents to ones sensibilities.

 

Like all product that uses IP from Star Wars.. it is subject to the Lore Masters review and approval as well.. so the declarations that the game is not Star Warsy enough is silly sauce on a silly sandwich heading for a silly pie hole IMO.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Andryah

[ImmortalLowlife]

Giggity

[Arkerus]

My post is based on fact. Based on reviews and based on interviews. Not minority. Even the devs admitted and acknowledged the frustrations that this game did not feel enough like Star Wars. They don't know how to make it better but they're looking into it. Which translates to never.

 

Still didn't answer my question...keep deflecting. Keep it up!

 

I asked a simple question and you can't answer it. Two ICONIC cruisers, fighters and space combat. That's star wars. If its not, please, by all means tell me why.

 

As for the devs responding to not being STAR WARS enough...learn to read PR speak.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Arkerus

[Arkerus]

This made me "LOL" because it is so ridiculous. Hardly anyone who criticizes a game says they could MAKE a better game, only that they think "this or that" should be DONE differently. If you think it is wrong to criticize how something is done unless you are the one doing it, then that rules out every single subject in the world except for the one profession you happen to have. It would mean no one should criticize a president or politician unless they themselves are a president or politician; no one should criticize a religious leader unless they themselves are one. Etc, etc.

 

If you don't understand why that's there, I can't help you.

 

I have criticized a lot of decisions and features in this game but I don't make assumptions that I can design a better one...which many people do. Have you READ some of the posts around here?

 

From people claiming they CAN make a better game to personal insults calling the developers incompetent, idiots, sad, terrible, etc, people do it all the time. They claim they know better when in reality, they don't.

 

If they did, they would be working in the industry.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Arkerus

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I have criticized a lot of decisions and features in this game but I don't make assumptions that I can design a better one...which many people do. Have you READ some of the posts around here?

 

If it is truly as common as you claim, then you should have no problem providing a measly 5 examples of posts where people arent simply criticizing the game, but actually claiming they can MAKE a better game than the Devs. Now let me guess, you'll probably say "I dont have to prove anything to you, just read the forums for yourself".

 

Well the fact is, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, not the person questioning it. You are making the claim that people regularly claim that they can MAKE a better game than the devs, so unless you can provide examples to prove how common that is then your claim is meaningless.

Edited September 3, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[The_Grand_Nagus]

That is his entire point.. armchair faux-designers. They like to crit the devs for 5000 with an armchair every chance they get. It's silly. Sure.. every player has their opinion, and more importantly outlook, about the game, but at the end of the day.. you are one among hundreds of thousands.. you are a grain of salt, not a superhero dev crusher.

 

Attitude is incredibly important for most people in establishing whether they enjoy something or dismiss it or hate it. And there is a lot of negative attitude in the forum, absent much objectivity and even more absent any sort of practical understanding at all. And in the era of blame anyone but yourself for your attitude.. the default for many is to blame the devs for what is actually a self-inflicted attitude about the game. It's immature, and it lacks responsibility one generally expects of adults in a civilized society. Internet barbarism is what we are seeing more and more here IMO.

 

Oh right, the old "armchair" argument. The fact, is, everyone is a critic of something. Whether it is politics, sports, movies, video games, everybody has their ideas about how something can be done better. In fact, did you know there are professional CRITICS? That means when you criticize someone on the forums for being an "armchair developer", you are being an "armchair" CRITIC. In other words, you are doing the exact same thing you are accusing other people of; aka hypocrisy.

[Andryah]

Oh right, the old "armchair" argument. The fact, is, everyone is a critic of something. Whether it is politics, sports, movies, video games, everybody has their ideas about how something can be done better. In fact, did you know there are professional CRITICS? That means when you criticize someone on the forums for being an "armchair developer", you are being an "armchair" CRITIC. In other words, you are doing the exact same thing you are accusing other people of; aka hypocrisy.

 

I see you trying to reframe your contentions via redefinitions. LOL.. won't work. You wear the outfit you come to the ball in.

 

By the way.. a gerbil can have a blog on the internetz.. true story as the internet has no threshold quotients to post a blog.

 

And Arkerus is correct. Many threads and comments within threads operate under a premise that the poster is smarter and more experienced then the dev team. They move beyond "critic" and onto " armchair designer". ou pretending otherwise just comes off as naïve IMO.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Andryah

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I see you trying to reframe your contentions via redefinitions. LOL.. won't work. You wear the outfit you come to the ball in.

 

By the way.. a gerbil can have a blog on the internetz.. true story as the internet has no threshold quotients to post a blog.

 

I see you could not actually refute anything I said, and I'm not surprised. If you decide you want to actually respond to any specific point I made rather than the old ad hominem attack, I'll be here

[Andryah]

I see you could not actually refute anything I said, and I'm not surprised. If you decide you want to actually respond to any specific point I made rather than the old ad hominem attack, I'll be here

 

I refuted it all. Suck it up.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

And Arkerus is correct. Many threads and comments within threads operate under a premise that the poster is smarter and more experienced then the dev team. They move beyond "critic" and onto " armchair designer". ou pretending otherwise just comes off as naïve IMO.

 

He specifically said that people did not simply criticize the devs(which I know they do, and frequently do in a disrespectful way), but said that MANY people claimed they could actually MAKE a better game than the devs. While I do not deny that there are probably a few random fools who make that claim, I do deny the claim that MANY people do so. And if it is truly as common as he claims, he should have no problem providing examples.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I refuted it all. Suck it up.

 

Wrong again, and I'll leave the sucking to you

[Arkerus]

If it is truly as common as you claim, then you should have no problem providing a measly 5 examples of posts where people arent simply criticizing the game, but actually claiming they can MAKE a better game than the Devs. Now let me guess, you'll probably say "I dont have to prove anything to you, just read the forums for yourself".

 

Well the fact is, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, not the person questioning it. You are making the claim that people regularly claim that they can MAKE a better game than the devs, so unless you can provide examples to prove how common that is then your claim is meaningless.

 

You just don't get it. Its not just "I CAN MAKE BETTER GAME HUUURRRR DURRRRR."

 

Is that what you still think this is? If so...get over it. Its not. It never was. I am not actually ASKING people to simply get a degree or shut up. I asking people to put a little more thought and idea into their criticism.

 

The entire point of my signature is a fun little jab at people who come into the forums proclaiming the game is ruined, or this feature will kill the game because of XYZ, or I am quitting because of <insert completely ridiculous expectation here> or <SWG> (lol).

 

I don't even have to point out how many ridiculous posts go into the forums. Just look at the PvP forums, for example.

 

Hell, on the MAIN page of general right now is a post from someone making fun of the devs for a bug on the PTS. Really? That's mature. Making fun of people now? Wow. We've come a long way.

 

You have 26 pages of people right here already claiming this feature will suck because it doesn't have XYZ. You even have the guy I was talking to who said this wasn't star wars enough even though it has the EXACT features of a star wars space battle.

 

You don't get it and I don't suspect you will. Its not about applying at bioware, its about making a point. Learn how to be constructive and have more realistic expectations.

 

And for the whole "not allowed to criticize" thing:

If I get a bad steak in a restaurant I don't walk back there and tell the chef how to make it, I send it back and ask for one that is more my taste. (e.g. medium instead of rare) I don't send a note to the kitchen head that says THIS IS HOW YOU MAKE STEAK.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Arkerus

[Andryah]

and for the whole "not allowed to criticize" thing:

If i get a bad steak in a restaurant i don't walk back there and tell the chef how to make it, i send it back and ask for one that is more my taste. (e.g. Medium instead of rare) i don't send a note to the kitchen head that says this is how you make steak.

 

qft

[Dokar]

You just don't get it. Its not just "I CAN MAKE BETTER GAME HUUURRRR DURRRRR."

 

Is that what you still think this is? If so...get over it. Its not. It never was. I am not actually ASKING people to simply get a degree or shut up. I asking people to put a little more thought and idea into their criticism.

 

The entire point of my signature is a fun little jab at people who come into the forums proclaiming the game is ruined, or this feature will kill the game because of XYZ, or I am quitting because of <insert completely ridiculous expectation here> or <SWG> (lol).

 

I don't even have to point out how many ridiculous posts go into the forums. Just look at the PvP forums, for example.

 

Hell, on the MAIN page of general right now is a post from someone making fun of the devs for a bug on the PTS. Really? That's mature. Making fun of people now? Wow. We've come a long way.

 

You have 26 pages of people right here already claiming this feature will suck because it doesn't have XYZ. You even have the guy I was talking to who said this wasn't star wars enough even though it has the EXACT features of a star wars space battle.

 

You don't get it and I don't suspect you will. Its not about applying at bioware, its about making a point. Learn how to be constructive and have more realistic expectations.

 

And for the whole "not allowed to criticize" thing:

If I get a bad steak in a restaurant I don't walk back there and tell the chef how to make it, I send it back and ask for one that is more my taste. (e.g. medium instead of rare) I don't send a note to the kitchen head that says THIS IS HOW YOU MAKE STEAK.

 

If you are sending it back to be cooked more then you are telling them how to cook it.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

You just don't get it. Its not just "I CAN MAKE BETTER GAME HUUURRRR DURRRRR."

 

Except that is exactly what you claimed that people said. Not those specific words mind you, but there is a difference between:

 

A) criticizing the game(or even INSULTING the devs)

 

and

 

B) actually claiming you could MAKE a better game than them.

 

You claimed that MANY people do the 2nd option above, and I disagree. I completely agree that many people criticize the game, do so in a disrespectful way, and many times have no idea what they are talking about. But that is NOT the same thing as claiming they could actually MAKE a better game themselves, which is what you said that MANY people do.

 

My point? If that is not what they actually said, then you cant claim to read their minds anymore than I can claim to read yours and then put words in your mouth.

Edited September 3, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[Andryah]

If you are sending it back to be cooked more then you are telling them how to cook it.

 

O'rly? Where in his statement is he stipulating method, rather then result?

Edited September 3, 2013 by Andryah