Pyro Buffs

[Aelaias]

Burnout is the execute for Pyro.

 

Increases elemental damage(fire, dots) on targets below 30% health.

 

Wrong. It increases the damage of PERIODIC elemental effects i.e. dots. If it affected ion pulse I would be content.

[Ottoattack]

I am well aware of how each tree, even hybrid, parses since 2.0. I've done extensive testing.

 

Issues, well I don't have issues. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot here with my following comments, but I'm sure this isn't very difficult to understand.

 

I over perform as a VG/Assault. I consider myself an serious, exceptional "casual" player. For example, in 69/69/66 gear, I'm <100 DPS off of being in top 50 in almost all FP encounters on Torparse. (strangely enough several top 10's at the moment in MR...must be a major bug )

 

In my last 10 WZ's (9 wins all Pug'd), I finished top in damage 9 times, including 689k in the first round of a VS. Still lacking the burst and DCD's to be seriously competitive, though.

 

Anyway, my point is this:

 

Having 2/3 viable trees is NOT acceptable. Especially, when the tree in question, Assault/Pyro, was TOTALLY viable pre 2.0.

 

I could play a sniper, 'slinger, or marauder. I do not enjoy those AC's more than my VG. Therefore, I would like to see some reasonable changes that put the AC in a place where they can be competitive (~5% SWTOR standard) in DPS.

 

With the healing increase and the sheer amount of DPS sniper/slinger and marauder/sents put out, as well as their excellent DCD's in 2.4, there is no reason Assault/Pyro cannot get back some, if not most to all, of it's burst pre 2.0.

 

To ignore the struggling AC's (I know Assault/pyro is not alone) for a year, is abysmal and irresponsible.

 

DPS leaderboards show a clear disparity, and nothing is being done to correct this. 2.4 is a MINOR increase, if any.

 

I know I'm just wasting my breath. I've been MMO'ing for quite some time ('03), and I know the free passes, excuses, and "metrics" the Dev teams get away with that allow FotM to run rampant.

 

I, however, believe in accountability. And 2/3 is not acceptable.

 

PvE wise forget 2/3, its 0/3. As tank, you are a 2nd rated tank, where Jugg leads in every single tanking category. AP damage is not within 5% of tops dpsers and offer no utility to raid. Pyro, you are not within 10% of tops dpsers and offer no utility to raid.

 

PvP, its 1/3. Shield tank is good, but again second rated to Jugg in every aspect. Pyro is still un-viable due to avg. burst, avg. sustained and unreliable damage (clenseable dots). AP is the only viable tree for PvP when 2.4 becomes live. You can say its 2/3 and include shield tech. I won't.

 

As long as devs keep thinking of pyro as a pure dot spec, it will never ever work in PvP. None of the dots classes work, except lethality sniper, due to dots protection, and even that won't be viable in arenas.

[T-Assassin]

PvE wise forget 2/3, its 0/3. As tank, you are a 2nd rated tank, where Jugg leads in every single tanking category. AP damage is not within 5% of tops dpsers and offer no utility to raid. Pyro, you are not within 10% of tops dpsers and offer no utility to raid.

 

PvP, its 1/3. Shield tank is good, but again second rated to Jugg in every aspect. Pyro is still un-viable due to avg. burst, avg. sustained and unreliable damage (clenseable dots). AP is the only viable tree for PvP when 2.4 becomes live. You can say its 2/3 and include shield tech. I won't.

 

As long as devs keep thinking of pyro as a pure dot spec, it will never ever work in PvP. None of the dots classes work, except lethality sniper, due to dots protection, and even that won't be viable in arenas.

 

Yeah, I agree

 

Burst or bust.

 

And PT/VG got busted in 2.0, taking away our burst.

[TACeMossie]

Well 2.4 is now also giving this buff no one told us about:

 

• Rail Shot now deals slightly more damage.

 

Depending on how much slightly is, it might do it. Maybe.

Cause Thermal Detonator got a Slight increase which amounted to 12% more damage...

who knows?

 

Source:

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

[LordExozone]

Awesome changes, I think I'll be able to resurrect my beloved Tibetan Candle build: AP while in CGC.

It will be even better than before with the new sweltering heat changes: enemy players will be permanently snared by one of the 3 snares: 40% from flameburst/flamesweep. 50% from retractable blade. 90% from prototype flamethrower.

It's harder to manage heat of course, but that is part of the charm of the spec. Looking forward to testing this tomorrow.

[DOCSMonkey]

why would they reduce the damage done by flamethrower..... FML

[T-Assassin]

why would they reduce the damage done by flamethrower..... FML

 

Because PT/VG DPS is obvi...ha...obvios...haha...obviously over powered.

 

sorry, couldn't even get that out without laughing.

[Aetrus]

why would they reduce the damage done by flamethrower..... FML

 

Because of the crit damage boosts it gets in the AP tree. You shouldn't be using Flamethrower in Pyro anyway.

[reclipsed]

My PT is only level 25, but I enjoy the way it plays. Guess we will all see how ungimped the class is after a few days/weeks

[ScytheEleven]

Pre 2.4 my PT Pyro in crappy 66/69 gear w/ no set bonus pulled around 2350.

 

Now in 2.4 in that same crappy gear, first parse = 2550.

 

Keep in mind this is in crappy 66/69 gear and no set-bonus.

 

This APPEARS to be pretty good

[Raam]

Could you do a test with Shield Tech as well?

[ScytheEleven]

Could you do a test with Shield Tech as well?

 

Can't really parse Shield Tech (well, you can, but it's a tanking tree...)

 

Just pulled a 2626 in the same crappy 66/69 gear in full Pyro.

 

I am very, very happy right now.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/444284

 

Set the time to 8:12:24 - 8:17:24 for the five minute mark (2626.28)

[T-Assassin]

Pre 2.4 my PT Pyro in crappy 66/69 gear w/ no set bonus pulled around 2350.

 

Now in 2.4 in that same crappy gear, first parse = 2550.

 

Keep in mind this is in crappy 66/69 gear and no set-bonus.

 

This APPEARS to be pretty good

 

Ran just a couple parses...nothing major, nothing clipped. same situation, 69/69/66 gear, 72/69/69 MH/OH.

 

DPS looks like it is up 200-300 depending on RNG.

[ScytheEleven]

Ran just a couple parses...nothing major, nothing clipped. same situation, 69/69/66 gear, 72/69/69 MH/OH.

 

DPS looks like it is up 200-300 depending on RNG.

 

Yup, the 200-300 DPS increase is what I'm noticing as well. Include an armor debuff (about 100 more DPS) and Burnout (sadly, only about 20-30 if KBN math was correct), and I would be around 2750 DPS in my mediocre gear. Pretty good for a fully mobile spec IMO. I think we might need just a LITTLE bit more, but overall, taking steps in the right direction.

[WilliamMarshal]

I hear AP spec is doing quite well, and has strong burst atm with immolate hitting really hard.

[T-Assassin]

Yup, the 200-300 DPS increase is what I'm noticing as well. Include an armor debuff (about 100 more DPS) and Burnout (sadly, only about 20-30 if KBN math was correct), and I would be around 2750 DPS in my mediocre gear. Pretty good for a fully mobile spec IMO. I think we might need just a LITTLE bit more, but overall, taking steps in the right direction.

 

I'm REALLY disliking the CGC proc reduction on IP/FB

 

maybe it's just muscle memory, but I found myself not able to reliably DoT and RS/HiB trash mobs in PvE and target switching in PvP. IM/IR is a waste of a GCD in those situations...

 

I'm praying to baby jesus for some DoT immunity.

 

and I guess i'll just have to adjust in PvE

[TACeMossie]

I'm REALLY disliking the CGC proc reduction on IP/FB

 

maybe it's just muscle memory, but I found myself not able to reliably DoT and RS/HiB trash mobs in PvE and target switching in PvP. IM/IR is a waste of a GCD in those situations...

 

I'm praying to baby jesus for some DoT immunity.

 

and I guess i'll just have to adjust in PvE

 

Haha!

Im one of those people you laughed at!

One of those Assault Vanguards (Pyro's) who threw in Stock Strike (RP) on cooldown because its a 75% proc chance for HiB (RS) was much better than the 45% on Ion Pulse, and my target was on fire the whole time anyway.

 

And now its paying off!

 

As for the trash sticky grenade (the missile whos name escapes me) enables Rail Shot on almost all trash outside of ops and does AoE

[Helig]

I do dig the changes, but Degauss is kind of underwhelming.

[T-Assassin]

Haha!

Im one of those people you laughed at!

One of those Assault Vanguards (Pyro's) who threw in Stock Strike (RP) on cooldown because its a 75% proc chance for HiB (RS) was much better than the 45% on Ion Pulse, and my target was on fire the whole time anyway.

 

And now its paying off!

 

As for the trash sticky grenade (the missile whos name escapes me) enables Rail Shot on almost all trash outside of ops and does AoE

 

I do not recall laughing at anyone, only discussing the difference in damage potentials via parsing. I don't come to the class forums to puff my chest out and "laugh" at people...I actually try to actively discuss specs, damage, parses, play styles, and performance. But, if you say so.

 

Anyway, trash mobs...sticky, HiB. if HiB crits, switch. IP, HiB. Well, not reliable now

 

I guess if you like the 4m melee style of the class, good for you...I enjoyed the ability to remain <10m and DPS, especially in PvP.

 

I think the change is garbage. Now, instead of strategically setting up for trash mobs where I can switch and lose 0 GCD's on "auto attacking" with a reliable 10m proc...now I have to run to 4m, like every other melee class, and apply...Which is a DPS loss, and which I will not do. I'll play a saber wielding class if I want to melee. (other than situational. I like to use SS on occasion, especially as a finisher for lawls)

 

And don't get me started on a punch or stock strike to fire DoT a target.. That is asinine.

 

Well, in my 8-8-30 spec, on boss mobs, it's has not been much of an issue, so far...from the zones I've ran. Still pulled 2293 on Brax and 2581 on Gil in MR (ALL top 5 VG parses in MR) so, I must be doing something right., in 69/69/66 gear. 72/69/69 MH/OH.

 

Had some pretty nice parses in CZ zones as well...would like to see how they stack up once they are available to view on torparse.

 

EDIT: for accuracy, grammar

Edited October 3, 2013 by T-Assassin

[Aetrus]

And don't get me started on a punch or stock strike to fire DoT a target.. That is asinine.

 

Well said. Another pointless mechanics change from BW that contributes nothing to the game.

[Brunner_Venda]

At least they tied sweltering heat to flame sweep, the AOE snare is nice.

 

But yeah, all that fire coming out of your fist and the butt of your rifle.

[T-Assassin]

4/6 #1 VG parses in Czerka zones. #2 on those i'm not on top. All PuG'd.

 

I must be doing something right in 69/69/66 gear.

Edited October 7, 2013 by T-Assassin

[Ajaxduo]

I just hope they show Pyro some more love in 2.5. As it stands AP is superior Dps but I've always preferred Pyro.

[Brunner_Venda]

I just hope they show Pyro some more love in 2.5. As it stands AP is superior Dps but I've always preferred Pyro.

 

AP isn't always superior DPS in PVP. I've found that pyro directly delivers more damage, and you don't have to depend as much on a rotation or a three second channel.

 

In PVE, yeah AP is where it's at.

[T-Assassin]

AP isn't always superior DPS in PVP. I've found that pyro directly delivers more damage, and you don't have to depend as much on a rotation or a three second channel.

 

In PVE, yeah AP is where it's at.

 

I'm 8-8-30 putting up those numbers in HM FP's.

 

Are you talking overall, or zone wide DPS being superior in PvE as AP?

 

On trash, adds, and AOE's I can see it. but, I don't see any higher numbers (than mine as 8-8-30)on parses since 2.4.

 

I would really like to see some parses from AP's that would back up what i'm hearing, that AP > Pyro...I don't care for AP, or I would be more inclined to try it out.

 

and again, all my parses are from random GF q's.