Ishigum Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) I believe this will strengthen the community as a whole as well as bonds within guilds. There are so many pugs who quit Operations after doing the weekly OPS missions, subsequently preventing me from completing these OPS unless 7-15 other people happen to be on the same boat as I am. It would be perfect if I could finish these OPS as well as help out a guildie. I don't care about the loot, I just want to cultivate an environment consisting of people helping one another instead of the selfishness that the current model promotes. Guilds have schedules they set up but sometimes people don't show up because life gets in the way. The best thing to do at this point is to help other guildies as well as new players, not to mention ourselves with the proposed change. It's a win/win situation! This small change will promote an environment of brotherhood and encourage others who want to build stronger guilds to do the same. UPDATE: One should either be allowed to only rerun an OPS 1 to 2 times per week to prevent gear farming or be locked out of gear rolls completely. Edited August 20, 2013 by Ishigum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaxem Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I believe this will strengthen the community as a whole as well as bonds within guilds. There are so many pugs who quit Operations after doing the weekly OPS missions, subsequently preventing me from completing these OPS unless 7-15 other people happen to be on the same boat as I am. It would be perfect if I could finish these OPS as well as help out a guildie. I don't care about the loot, I just want to cultivate an environment consisting of people helping one another instead of the selfishness that the current model promotes. Guilds have schedules they set up but sometimes people don't show up because life gets in the way. The best thing to do at this point is to help other guildies as well as new players, not to mention ourselves with the proposed change. It's a win/win situation! This small change will promote an environment of brotherhood and encourage others who want to build stronger guilds to do the same. it would defeat the purpose of gearing up then since you could literally farm the first couple bosses gear everyone up from those bosses and do the rest of the instance like normal since i doubt most guilds would farm past the first 3-4 bosses. it would just make it even easier then it currently is to gear up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishigum Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 it would defeat the purpose of gearing up then since you could literally farm the first couple bosses gear everyone up from those bosses and do the rest of the instance like normal since i doubt most guilds would farm past the first 3-4 bosses. it would just make it even easier then it currently is to gear up Well you could limit it to only 1 or 2 reruns per week. Should add that on my post thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaceen Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) i would be completely fine with changing it so that lockouts just prevented me from looting a particular chestsometimes a friend will ask if i can help out, and i have to say 'well, i've got locks' lotro implemented a system recently. i'm not entirely sure how i feel about it, but it has its pros and cons.but the loot was given out automatically to each person (like it was in the beginning of this game), but it's all BoE, and the loot tables are a bit more random, and there's no guarantee that you'll even get anything. but there are no lockouts whatsoever on anything. so it basically encourages more farming (which in and of itself has its pros and cons). i'm not sure if such a system can really work on swtor because of the way lotro uses currency to buy end-game gear, but i would still like to be able to help out a friend even if all of my characters are locked out. Edited August 20, 2013 by oaceen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishigum Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 i would be completely fine with changing it so that lockouts just prevented me from looting a particular chest sometimes a friend will ask if i can help out, and i have to say 'well, i've got locks' lotro implemented a system recently. i'm not entirely sure how i feel about it, but it has its pros and cons. but the loot was given out automatically to each person (like it was in the beginning of this game) and it's all BoE, but the loot tables are a bit more random, and there's no guarantee that you'll even get anything. but there are no lockouts whatsoever on anything. so it basically encourages more farming. i'm not sure if such a system can really work on swtor because of the way they use currency to buy end-game gear, but i would still like to be able to help out a friend even if all of my characters are locked out. That is exactly what I want to promote, helping other people out. I'm sure Bioware can tweek this idea into a working solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Lockouts are just artificial content extenders. It's a lazy trend that needs to stop in MMOs. Remove lockouts but can't start them over till you clear the Op 100%. That way you can't just farm the 1st boss. They also need to seperate HM NiM lockouts. They should at least let us run the content but be locked out of loot and comms. Edited August 20, 2013 by Toweleeeie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishigum Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Lockouts are just artificial content extenders. It's a lazy trend that needs to stop in MMOs. Remove lockouts but can't start them over till you clear the Op 100%. That way you can't just farm the 1st boss. They also need to seperate HM NiM lockouts. They should at least let us run the content but be locked out of loot and comms. I wholly agree. Those 2 lockouts need to be separate! If you're gonna copy other MMO's at least do it better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishigum Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hopefully Bioware addresses this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinSpaghetti Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 In a previous thread I made on this subject I made some suggestions that would alleviate farming i.e. locking out loot instead of bosses etc. After recent revelations about ninjaing on another forum I'd like to go against that now, I feel lockouts should be removed from story modes entirely and loot should be dropped just like flashpoints. The reason for this change of heart is due to the general opinion I got from my servers unofficial forum that a lot of people find story modes "insignificant" or to quote someone "rather pedestrian". If people/guilds want to go farm arkanian while in full 72's from a group finder pug run because story modes "don't matter" then lets remove this stupid once a week restriction on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaceen Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 In a previous thread I made on this subject I made some suggestions that would alleviate farming i.e. locking out loot instead of bosses etc. After recent revelations about ninjaing on another forum I'd like to go against that now, I feel lockouts should be removed from story modes entirely and loot should be dropped just like flashpoints. The reason for this change of heart is due to the general opinion I got from my servers unofficial forum that a lot of people find story modes "insignificant" or to quote someone "rather pedestrian". If people/guilds want to go farm arkanian while in full 72's from a group finder pug run because story modes "don't matter" then lets remove this stupid once a week restriction on them. that's a really fair point and one that i agree with. when i first replied to the thread, i sort of glossed over 'for story mode' in the title. i was really happy when they removed the daily lockouts for flashpoints way back when, and i feel story mode ops are on the same tier as hard mode flashpoints. especially now that anyone can queue for the new core meltdown HM over and over again for arkanian implant / earpiece, i don't see any reason to keep the lockouts. i think a good argument can be made, i think, for preserving lockouts until you actually finish the entire operation, but arkanian is now two tiers behind BiS, and with two new operations on the way, i have a feeling it'll be even further behind. there's no reason to bottleneck acquiring this tier of gear imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Should implement a system where people with the expansion don't have lockouts on lvl 50 operations. As of now it's futile to even try to get 50 gear because leveling is too fast. Also, classic comms are waaaay to hard to come by. You won't even have enough for one piece of lvl 50 gear by the time you ding 55. How about handing out classic comms instead of planetary comms on Voss and Corellia? We'd still only have comms for one item but it would be better than nothing. Or simply cutting the price on campaign by 2/3? Or perhaps it's not meant for people with the expansion to bother with lvl 50 stuff at all. Edited August 20, 2013 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 it would defeat the purpose of gearing up then since you could literally farm the first couple bosses gear everyone up from those bosses and do the rest of the instance like normal since i doubt most guilds would farm past the first 3-4 bosses. it would just make it even easier then it currently is to gear up ^ This. i would be completely fine with changing it so that lockouts just prevented me from looting a particular chest sometimes a friend will ask if i can help out, and i have to say 'well, i've got locks' lotro implemented a system recently. i'm not entirely sure how i feel about it, but it has its pros and cons. but the loot was given out automatically to each person (like it was in the beginning of this game), but it's all BoE, and the loot tables are a bit more random, and there's no guarantee that you'll even get anything. but there are no lockouts whatsoever on anything. so it basically encourages more farming (which in and of itself has its pros and cons). i'm not sure if such a system can really work on swtor because of the way lotro uses currency to buy end-game gear, but i would still like to be able to help out a friend even if all of my characters are locked out. That's an interesting perspective. Rather than having a content lockout, maybe you could have a gear-lockout to where you can only be eligible for loot (other than credits) once per week. Honestly, I could get behind this if it's done right. However, iMO SM lockouts isn't that big of an issue. The larger issue for me is that HM and NiM share the same lockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phinion Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 ^ This. That's an interesting perspective. Rather than having a content lockout, maybe you could have a gear-lockout to where you can only be eligible for loot (other than credits) once per week. Honestly, I could get behind this if it's done right. However, iMO SM lockouts isn't that big of an issue. The larger issue for me is that HM and NiM share the same lockout. If the lockout is gear only then that could work. First run, player can roll on everything, every run after that players are locked and cannot get gear at all. However, No locks at all, gear or otherwise would not work at all. Other games have no locks and the first several weekends people just ground out their gear then moved on. Content was eaten up so fast by players that the company could not keep up with the demand for group content. Once players have the gear they want, rarely did they return to run the instance again. That being said, can't raid drops be traded to other players within 2 hours of the raid or doesn't the item become bound to the carrier once they leave an instance? If so, then you have to stop the trading of gear to the locked player as guilds will just run the same few bosses and gear themselves up by trading gear amongst themselves. That would negate the entire lock system on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELRunninW Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) I believe this will strengthen the community as a whole as well as bonds within guilds. You can do that right now with the lockouts. Organize a run with the people that are not selfish and will complete the run with you. You can not stop people from dropping at anytime they feel like it with or without the lockouts. How is your suggestion a solution? Put people that drop on your ignore list and do not group with them ever again. Edited August 20, 2013 by ELRunninW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELRunninW Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Or perhaps it's not meant for people with the expansion to bother with lvl 50 stuff at all. You can run flahpoints at level 50, there is no lockout on that. When I pass 50 I make sure I have my planetary coms available for mods on Makeb. Makeb drops are usually green and I ignore those most of the time. Edited August 20, 2013 by ELRunninW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 If the lockout is gear only then that could work. First run, player can roll on everything, every run after that players are locked and cannot get gear at all. However, No locks at all, gear or otherwise would not work at all. Other games have no locks and the first several weekends people just ground out their gear then moved on. Content was eaten up so fast by players that the company could not keep up with the demand for group content. Once players have the gear they want, rarely did they return to run the instance again. That being said, can't raid drops be traded to other players within 2 hours of the raid or doesn't the item become bound to the carrier once they leave an instance? If so, then you have to stop the trading of gear to the locked player as guilds will just run the same few bosses and gear themselves up by trading gear amongst themselves. That would negate the entire lock system on its own. I think the lockout would be on the act of rolling on the gear, not whether you actually won gear or not. I like the idea being able to do an Op more than once if necessary. Personally, I would just run on a different character, but I suppose this would help others be able to go more than once. I do agree that loot drop rolls should still be on a lockout tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebevo Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) There is already a simple solution to lockout, level more toons. I also have a toon to help friends though sm operations since I have a sawbones, shadow, commando, sage, slinger and knight all at level 55. Lockouts are my friend or all I would be doing is healing these things. Also, classic comms are waaaay to hard to come by. You won't even have enough for one piece of lvl 50 gear by the time you ding 55. How about handing out classic comms instead of planetary comms on Voss and Corellia? We'd still only have comms for one item but it would be better than nothing. Or simply cutting the price on campaign by 2/3? For someone hitting 50 for the first time, I would agree, but hard for me to say Classic Comms are hard to come by when I have hundreds on many toons and only reason I don't have more is I buy and ventor the gear for credits. Classic comms to me are only good for gearing compaions and now with so many utimate comms they are not even good for that. Edited August 20, 2013 by mikebevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I support the complete removal of all lockouts. They're artificial road bumps that don't need to be there...especially since all equivalent SM gear can be purchased. HM and NiM need separate lockouts as well (if they have lockouts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 That being said, can't raid drops be traded to other players within 2 hours of the raid or doesn't the item become bound to the carrier once they leave an instance? If so, then you have to stop the trading of gear to the locked player as guilds will just run the same few bosses and gear themselves up by trading gear amongst themselves. That would negate the entire lock system on its own. Yes you can trade with 'eligible players' for up to 2 hours after you recieve it unless you do something like pull a mod, augment it, equip it, etc. They would have to do some fancy coding to make sure that the lockouts also effected the 'eligible players' for that loot to be traded too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 it would defeat the purpose of gearing up then since you could literally farm the first couple bosses gear everyone up from those bosses and do the rest of the instance like normal since i doubt most guilds would farm past the first 3-4 bosses. it would just make it even easier then it currently is to gear up SM ops drop 69. We already have 72 and 75. With 2.4 I bet there will yet another tier of gear. I really don't see an issue with having a faster way of getting 69s. In fact, I think it should be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELRunninW Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) SM ops drop 69. We already have 72 and 75. With 2.4 I bet there will yet another tier of gear. I really don't see an issue with having a faster way of getting 69s. In fact, I think it should be done The longer it takes you to gear up your toon the longer you will remain a subscriber. You may chose to quit once you achieve everything. Did you not notice complains about not enough content? being forced to do the same thing over and over for a long time is like adding more content to the game. Wake up! Edited August 20, 2013 by ELRunninW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieBrown Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 If they added this, it would be a consumable that reset your lockouts per character and cost 6,000 cartel coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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