Why The Death of Ranked is a Good Thing

[cycao]

TBH. I don't see any point in Qing regs in 2.4. Especially if both ranked give ranked comms as it does now. You get better matchmaking, better rewards and you don't have to worry about facing them big bad premades. The only reason I will do it is because I miss Huttball and Voidstar, and probably the other 8 mans in some love-hate way.

 

Same, I think I will be doing ranked for the majority of my time spent in the queue. It would be nice though that when they introduce the new huttball map to have an entirely different queue for ranked and regs for the two huttball maps...Huttball league, time to get it started.

[Going]

The best post I've seen so far in all of time.

Bump

[exodusdm]

Bugs, Exploits and Disconnects

Another major factor adding to the demise of this mode is none other than the stability of the game's performance, coupled with players abusing the system for their team's benefit. I hate to say it, but this is one of the reasons that I cannot help but giggle at ranked being promoted as a 'true' form of PvP. Have you tried ranked huttball lately? Better turn on your autoclickers and hope for the best. Or if you're in the goal line, better hop on that 'glitched' pole so that you won't be pulled. Let's add to that - let's use lagbots to avoid people actually seeing us from capping until we're about 90% complete. 'Where did that guy come from? Didn't see him capping the door!'

 

What's that? You stepped into a certain spot and now you're suddenly in an invisible box and can't get out? Ouch. Let's not forget the random disconnects or heck, sometimes it even goes up to 2 disconnects per game. Just stuff like this. Especially when one person can alter and change an entire team's strategy, offensive or defensive output. I mean, what are you going to do if your jugg tank dcs? Or your node guarder's gone? Or both your healers are no longer in game?[/u]

 

Lag bots? Auto clickers? Where's the proof, if you have none, than you're just making excuses, like every other baddie.

 

Oh and by the way, I play on the same server as you and have been doing ranked on it a lot longer than you have, and I've only seen people use that glitched corner you're talking about twice in the 1500 ranked games I've played across all my toons, so yeah, you're smoking your socks lady.

Edited August 15, 2013 by exodusdm

[Shadow-scale]

Only bads hide behind objectives and call ranked wzs 'pvp', arenas will show true face

[funkiestj]

TBH. I don't see any point in Qing regs in 2.4. Especially if both ranked give ranked comms as it does now. You get better matchmaking, better rewards and you don't have to worry about facing them big bad premades. The only reason I will do it is because I miss Huttball and Voidstar, and probably the other 8 mans in some love-hate way.

 

Yep. I'm hoping that BW will implement challenge matches in 2.5. Challenge matches in 8v8 will provide a far better experience than 8v8 RWZ ever did with the added benefit that we could have player run tournaments.

 

In theory BW could also implement rated queuing for 8v8 (e.g. at most 1 4-man premade per side, fixed compositions) but the reality is they won't spend dev/test resources on both of these so I am hoping for challenge matches.

[TonyDragonflame]

Well said, Shinarika!

 

/hugs

Edited August 15, 2013 by TonyDragonflame

[DarthOvertone]

I cannot say it is the wisest idea to lessen your options of playability in the game.

 

Ah...so we agree. I'm glad you see the light and understand why Ranked should not be removed.

 

The one really good thing about Arenas is the new Matchmaking System being implemented. That is the true light at the end of the tunnel for SWTOR PvP. I expect that Ranked will be returning in Season One with this same matchmaking system should it perform effectively. But of course, I'm speculating with my tinfoil hat on.

[Shadow-scale]

Ah...so we agree. I'm glad you see the light and understand why Ranked should not be removed.

 

The one really good thing about Arenas is the new Matchmaking System being implemented. That is the true light at the end of the tunnel for SWTOR PvP. I expect that Ranked will be returning in Season One with this same matchmaking system should it perform effectively. But of course, I'm speculating with my tinfoil hat on.

i think that was what the OP was trying to get at, glad some people actually read and understand:rolleyes:

[Moombahcore]

Decent post, you make sound arguments when you look at it from a broader scale than just the immediate situation for most ranked players.

 

Let's be honest here. If a 4v4 comes out, you better believe some of these pvp guilds for ranked currently will fall apart. Most of them are barely held together by the potential/possibility of a higher number in a pre-season. Most fall apart within months anyway from quitting people, drama, etc. People have just been bouncing around because they dont get along with so and so but do with these 2. Etc.

 

Last I checked you can still queue with 4 for regs if you want your objective fix. It's not like they are removing objective gameplay from the game all together.

 

When areana's came out, rateds would die anyway, people need to get wise. New stuff comes out everyone wants to do it, which means they arent doing the old stuff. We'd go from ~5-10 teams queueing for ranked to about 1-3. How fun would it be to get the same team 20 games in a row? Especially if you are getting pounded, or even pounding them?

 

It's not like this is the last patch for pvp forever. So chill out, play another game for a while. Unsub, regs are unlimited free now.

 

Once you're not playing ranked for a few weeks you see how stupid the system is in the grand scheme of the game, it's poorly done. I had a 3k rated vanguard on a good team on pub side. <nerds>. Everyone quit being bored of the game and how the games were being played. Super ***** mode, stall stall stall, click macros popping up, and that was even before the everyone respec fad came in. I came back actually looking to do ranked, but that just turned me off. Its just more of the reason I quit. ****** style gameplay.

 

The game will be healthier as a whole and inspire growth of a dying community if you let them put in easier to get into systems. With arena there should be 200+ solid teams per server. Let alone people more willing to try.

 

Thats better than ~10 maybe sometimes.

 

TLDR See you in arena. (Most likely solo-ranked because yolo) And stop QQ'ing.

[funkiestj]

TLDR See you in arena. (Most likely solo-ranked because yolo) And stop QQ'ing.

 

I'm pretty sure I can get BW to change their plan by threatening to unsub. After all, it worked for wakalord with the 2.0 assassin skill tree changes.

 

[Xinika]

Decent post, you make sound arguments when you look at it from a broader scale than just the immediate situation for most ranked players.

In an idealized setting, it would be better to have both modes available for play. Not disagreeing to that in the slightest. However, if it came down to one option - Arena or Warzones, then Arena will logically be better from a business perspective. Which is why I said, if we cannot have both and only one (that one being Arena) the game is headed for a brighter future and for that, I give BW a thumbs up. There is no reason RWZs cannot exist in the future, but if it has to be removed for now due to this, then this is a more than acceptable bargain with understandably better outcomes.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Xinika

[Motoeric]

nailed it imo

[Mikeieveli]

Decent post, you make sound arguments when you look at it from a broader scale than just the immediate situation for most ranked players.

 

Let's be honest here. If a 4v4 comes out, you better believe some of these pvp guilds for ranked currently will fall apart. Most of them are barely held together by the potential/possibility of a higher number in a pre-season. Most fall apart within months anyway from quitting people, drama, etc. People have just been bouncing around because they dont get along with so and so but do with these 2. Etc.

 

Last I checked you can still queue with 4 for regs if you want your objective fix. It's not like they are removing objective gameplay from the game all together.

 

When areana's came out, rateds would die anyway, people need to get wise. New stuff comes out everyone wants to do it, which means they arent doing the old stuff. We'd go from ~5-10 teams queueing for ranked to about 1-3. How fun would it be to get the same team 20 games in a row? Especially if you are getting pounded, or even pounding them?

 

It's not like this is the last patch for pvp forever. So chill out, play another game for a while. Unsub, regs are unlimited free now.

 

Once you're not playing ranked for a few weeks you see how stupid the system is in the grand scheme of the game, it's poorly done. I had a 3k rated vanguard on a good team on pub side. <nerds>. Everyone quit being bored of the game and how the games were being played. Super ***** mode, stall stall stall, click macros popping up, and that was even before the everyone respec fad came in. I came back actually looking to do ranked, but that just turned me off. Its just more of the reason I quit. ****** style gameplay.

 

The game will be healthier as a whole and inspire growth of a dying community if you let them put in easier to get into systems. With arena there should be 200+ solid teams per server. Let alone people more willing to try.

 

Thats better than ~10 maybe sometimes.

 

TLDR See you in arena. (Most likely solo-ranked because yolo) And stop QQ'ing.

 

Ya sure people will have fun doing arenas for awhile but those will get boring too and people will quit once they achieve those high ratings. RWZ allows for an alternative to arenas for those that want to do it. The code is already there why not just leave the code. And what you are talking about with stalemates is wz design. Thats on BW to fix those issues, ie: getting rid of speeders in CW. And as far as the macros are concerned, those arent used by top teams due to reputation decreasing if it was found they were using it. Usually those were used by teams trying to be top teams but just didnt cut it. Also as bug always exist, the hope is to keep them to a minimum, once bugs and exploits are found in arena, macros exploiting those bugs will be formed. Its inevitable, and again this on the Devs to fix this.

 

What do you think will happen to arena a year from 2.4 when no attention fix these bugs, fix arenas, implement new seasons and new rewards occurs to arenas? Do you honestly think that participation will be as high as the day 2.4 is implemented, or even two months after? Or do you think it will die off too, will post then that its the players that need to fix it, and scrap off arenas altogether in favor of some new pvp implementation? I hope you do, because what I described is what BW did to RWZ and if they do it to Arenas the same will happen. Its not the format of Ranked WZ, its the devs that are the problem. Ya I said it.

[Herem]

TBH. I don't see any point in Qing regs in 2.4. Especially if both ranked give ranked comms as it does now. You get better matchmaking, better rewards and you don't have to worry about facing them big bad premades. The only reason I will do it is because I miss Huttball and Voidstar, and probably the other 8 mans in some love-hate way.

If you can get more ranked comms by queuing arena solo than you can by queuing warzones and exchanging those comms, people will stop queuing for war zones, plain and simple.

[Carter_Mathis]

If you can get more ranked comms by queuing arena solo than you can by queuing warzones and exchanging those comms, people will stop queuing for war zones, plain and simple.

 

Yeah because, especially at max gear, people always to things to maximize their output and gain so that they play as efficiently as possible

[Trevalion]

The OP makes great points. I agree.

 

I am an optimist. I see the fact that the dev team got the go ahead to do this work as a good sign. EA/BW acknowledges that PvP is an important, used system in their overall game design. They dedicate a patch to it. The design for the patch includes some of what look like really good systems. In order to support those systems they had to scrap an old and obviously broken system (in terms of participation in the overall population).

 

Some crying begins. It is unavoidable. Change always brings tears.

 

The thing that cracks me up is how people say "OMG cant you see this means that the developers are incompetent and the game will die!?!?"

 

I see the opposite. I see acknowledgement of the importance of PvP systems. I see work to update the systems. I see a better future, with potential being fulfilled. Where is all the doom coming from? Vote with your wallet. Leave if your unhappy. The rest of us wont miss you, and when new people come along to experience the better systems it will be like you were never here.

 

I haven't seen any suggestions as to how to make 8v8 viable that I found realistic. Let's prove the new matchmaking system. Let's show that people are interested in a new form of competitive PvP. If those things work out, lets add to the systems in the future and not worry about keeping around the broke *** one that we have had up till now.

[Ottoattack]

It is not. The solution was always solo que based on ELO rating, which will be implemented in arenas so....

 

It is simple, we already know their is not enough funding, devs are lazy or incompetent (most likely a combination of all three). Removing an option is never ever a solution. It just limits the player experience.

 

I am actually do prefer the 4v4 format over 8v8; however, I am totally against non-objective game play. Its a complete dumbing down of the game as it completely removes strategy and focuses class balance around suvivability instead of having options. The current class balance is beyond broken and with arenas coming, good luck having any sort of class balance.

 

BTW, all the problems with the current class balance (namingly stalemates) will exist if not further intensified in arenas. Removing 8v8 ranked que resolves nothing. All it does it shows how incompetent devs are in solving any in game problems.

[Trevalion]

It is ... devs are lazy or incompetent (most likely a combination of all three)....

 

I am actually do prefer the 4v4 format over 8v8; however, I am totally against non-objective game play. Its a complete dumbing down of the game as it completely removes strategy and focuses class balance around suvivability instead of having options. The current class balance is beyond broken and with arenas coming, good luck having any sort of class balance.

 

BTW, all the problems with the current class balance (namingly stalemates) will exist if not further intensified in arenas. Removing 8v8 ranked que resolves nothing. All it does it shows how incompetent devs are in solving any in game problems.

 

I see what you did there... The devs are incompetent.. oh man!

 

I completely disagree with your blanket statement that it "completely removes strategy". It does change the execution, but that is not the same as removing it. It's pretty arrogant to say that the only thing that requires thought and strategy is king of the hill or bomb planting. The things that make pvp a strategic exercise (knowing your class, knowing when to CC, when to pressure, when to burst, who to focus, who to peel, etc.) are not changed at all in arena. I would more swayed by an argument that showed how much more important those things will be in a 4v4 arena than an 8v8 objective map.

 

I have played all the archetypes. I think balance is mostly OK. I don't ever expect it to be absolutely perfect. Not seeing where your coming from on that one.

[Ottoattack]

I see what you did there... The devs are incompetent.. oh man!

 

I completely disagree with your blanket statement that it "completely removes strategy". It does change the execution, but that is not the same as removing it. It's pretty arrogant to say that the only thing that requires thought and strategy is king of the hill or bomb planting. The things that make pvp a strategic exercise (knowing your class, knowing when to CC, when to pressure, when to burst, who to focus, who to peel, etc.) are not changed at all in arena. I would more swayed by an argument that showed how much more important those things will be in a 4v4 arena than an 8v8 objective map.

 

I have played all the archetypes. I think balance is mostly OK. I don't ever expect it to be absolutely perfect. Not seeing where your coming from on that one.

 

Knowing your class rotation and atking healers does not constitute strategy. The only strategy enveloped in TDM is pick the right class composition, which if played on with today's class balance will be 2 sins and 2 ops. I am not saying that the current WZs involve insane strategy, but it at least its much more involved than just kill everything in sight!

 

And if the devs are so good, why is taking us 8 month for each balance patch. Why was the bolster implemented with so many bugs? Why are some classes like PT almost not included in competitive play (mercs pre-expansion)?

 

Plus if RWZ will be removed because there "was no support," a) why do not BW support them?! or b) leave them as is?! c) what guarantees we will have "support" in arenas?! Completely dumb reasoning to remove RWZs with incompetence written all over it.

[Mikeieveli]

I see what you did there... The devs are incompetent.. oh man!

 

I completely disagree with your blanket statement that it "completely removes strategy". It does change the execution, but that is not the same as removing it. It's pretty arrogant to say that the only thing that requires thought and strategy is king of the hill or bomb planting. The things that make pvp a strategic exercise (knowing your class, knowing when to CC, when to pressure, when to burst, who to focus, who to peel, etc.) are not changed at all in arena. I would more swayed by an argument that showed how much more important those things will be in a 4v4 arena than an 8v8 objective map.

 

I have played all the archetypes. I think balance is mostly OK. I don't ever expect it to be absolutely perfect. Not seeing where your coming from on that one.

 

Well put, which is the point I think most that are in favor of keeping ranked wzs are making. The strategy is different between objective based and TDM. Which is fine and great. We want both. Let us have to the ability to choose. Inherently when you have choices one will be more popular than the other, which again is fine. The point is though, to keep choices. Strategies are and create different "expertise" if you will, under the same umbrella.

 

Some doctors are the best Heart surgeons but lost when it comes to skeletal structure, and vis versa. I dont want an orthopedic operating on my heart and i dont want a cardiovascular surgeon operating on my bones. But they are both in the medical field. My point here is that we are all PvPers but some specialize in one aspect and others specialize in another.

 

Support your breathren, keep ranked wzs.

[Altheran]

TBH. I don't see any point in Qing regs in 2.4. Especially if both ranked give ranked comms as it does now. You get better matchmaking, better rewards and you don't have to worry about facing them big bad premades. The only reason I will do it is because I miss Huttball and Voidstar, and probably the other 8 mans in some love-hate way.

 

Being rewaded Ranked comms is better, only on paper. In reality, it will depend on how much comms will be given.

 

Partisan gear doesn't need ranked comms but warzone comms. Okay, ranked can be exchanged with warzone at 1:1 ratio. But if ranked arenas give less ranked comms than a WZ will give WZ comms (strictly speaking about the amount), Arenas will not be worth for buying Partisan.

 

Ideally, when a WZ give 100 WZ comms, an arena should give 50 ranked. Put that way, since an Arena is 3 round of 5min so having the same length than a WZ, the WZ will be twice as more profitable for earning Partisan (and stims/adrenals) as the Arena will be only worth 50 WZ comms.

As for gearing for Conqueror, Arena will become more profitable at a 3/2 ratio because a WZ will be only worth ~33 ranked comms.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Altheran

[Ariak-]

OP I sincerely agree. 6 months from now after over a million WOW subscibers come to swtor (yes im optimistic) , people will look back and see this as a great move. 8v8 hanging over the arena guys head (yes if they stayed live there would be a lot of drama about how 8v8 ranked is the "real skill") will incite fewer players to compete. I know that logic may be hard to follow, but I genuinely believe bioware is making the right move. Edited August 15, 2013 by Ariak-

[SOULCASTER]

OP I sincerely agree. 6 months from now after over a million WOW subscibers come to swtor (yes im optimistic) , people will look back and see this as a great move. 8v8 hanging over the arena guys head (yes if they stayed live there would be a lot of drama about how 8v8 ranked is the "real skill") will incite fewer players to compete. I know that logic may be hard to follow, but I genuinely believe bioware is making the right move.

 

Removing any form of current content, just because some or even a majority of a population doesn't participate in it, does NOT fix anything. It only removes content from those that were enjoying it. And in a game with EXTREMELY limited pvp options, that is a BAD thing.

[Xinika]

The one really good thing about Arenas is the new Matchmaking System being implemented. .

That's just the cherry on the cake. Either way, it's showing that BW is showing interest toward the PvP aspect of the game.

[IGotRawr]

This OP knows what he's talking about, ranked warzones were doomed from the start. The ridiculous amount of exploits/hacks that came up in recent times only made it worse, the implementation of arenas will revitalize the PvP community at least for a little while. At least we won't have to put up with 30 minute Novare matches because neither team can kill any opponent because of the presence of 2 tanks and 2 healers on each side as often was and is the case on ranked warzones. Of course there will be class balance issues, in my opinion especially the ability of a full stealth DPS team on voice communication to open up on a single target and burst it down before anyone realises what's going on, but I do think those will be adressed in time. As in any patch, there will be FoTM to be dealt with, it wouldn't be an MMO without it.

 

Personally I'm looking forward to cleaning the cobwebs off my scoundrel's shotgun and team up with 3 other scoundrels to pick off some poor unawary guys one by one in arenas hehe.

 

Prioritizing deathmatch is something that should've been done from the start as far as PvP goes, afterall everyone wants to hop into a PvP environment and shoot every red named character they see. While I did enjoy the objective play style, I often found myself while queue'ing solo or even in premade groups with guildies/friends for regular warzones to be grouped with people who were either clueless about the objectives or simply didn't care and would rather go out there and kill stuff. Also the less people that make up a team, the more individual player ability comes into focus which is a great thing, afterall in PvP you aim to be the best you possibly can be within your class, spec and role.

 

Thumbs up for a deep and insightful thread.

 

On a last note, to the top tier PvP guilds across the servers that played solely for ranked warzones: carry your commitment over to arenas. Even if you won't be as dominant on arenas as you were on ranked because team coordination will not be so vital or because they're disabling the field respec CHEESE! or if them auto-clickers in a few cases will not be as useful to grab them balls in SNIPER/SLINGERball it doesn't mean you won't enjoy it. So please, stop moaning about all your efforts on getting people coordinated to be sucessful on ranked warzones going down the drain when 2.4 hits because those same efforts will translate over to arenas if your players are worth their salt.

 

I bid you all a good day and thumbs up to the OP once more.

Edited August 16, 2013 by IGotRawr