Commandos heals in 4v4

[brandonkassem]

Just thought i'd share my excitement with my fellow troopers

 

With the new arenas on the horizon, I must say im pretty excited for us commandos/mercs! Despite all the posts about "mando/merc healers aren't viable" I think in a 4v4 scenario we have many advantages over other healers, considering we have the highest single target healing and great survivability (compared to ops and sorc's ) I think the new arenas will shed a new light on the much over looked mando healing!

[cashogy_reborn]

The exact same weaknesses that make us subpar to Scoundrel and Sage healers in an 8v8 will still exist in a 4v4.

[brandonkassem]

The exact same weaknesses that make us subpar to Scoundrel and Sage healers in an 8v8 will still exist in a 4v4.

 

Care to elaborate on that?

[galaxivurse]

The exact same weaknesses that make us subpar to Scoundrel and Sage healers in an 8v8 will still exist in a 4v4.

 

This is simply not true.

 

1) Your energy regeneration will be less of an issue b/c of the relatively fast nature of the fights (right now limited to 5m before gas is released).

 

2) Your heavy armor will become that much more important in a concentrated 4m TDM.

 

3) Your off dps is far better for burst than both the scoundrel and the sage. And, obviously, dps will be king in arenas.

 

Additionally, all your skills will be important whereas for the sage/scoundrel, some of their utility (and hence part of the reason they shine) will be of little to no use as far as I can tell from released information thus far. What would scamper ever be used for? Why would a sage ever rescue? (Of course, these skills might be used on occasion but prob not NEARLY as often as they are now).

 

In short, some of the elements of current 8m wz's that cause the mando to become eclipsed by its fellow healing AC's will not be present in arenas best I can tell. Imho mandos will rule as BiS for healing class.

[DariusCalera]

This is simply not true.

 

1) Your energy regeneration will be less of an issue b/c of the relatively fast nature of the fights (right now limited to 5m before gas is released).

 

2) Your heavy armor will become that much more important in a concentrated 4m TDM.

 

3) Your off dps is far better for burst than both the scoundrel and the sage. And, obviously, dps will be king in arenas.

 

Additionally, all your skills will be important whereas for the sage/scoundrel, some of their utility (and hence part of the reason they shine) will be of little to no use as far as I can tell from released information thus far. What would scamper ever be used for? Why would a sage ever rescue? (Of course, these skills might be used on occasion but prob not NEARLY as often as they are now).

 

In short, some of the elements of current 8m wz's that cause the mando to become eclipsed by its fellow healing AC's will not be present in arenas best I can tell. Imho mandos will rule as BiS for healing class.

 

1: For the fast nature of the fights being able to crank out the big heals on yourself and your team mates is going to be even more important. With those big heals comes the nature our the CM's poor energy regeneration. Also, with the fights being 4v4 I doubt that there will be anywhere that a CM can sneak off to to regen some energy while another healer carries a bit more of the load for a few seconds.

 

2: Heavy armor will still mean next to nothing with so many attacks bypassing it.

 

3: Possibly, but if it comes to the point where a CM can add their DPS to a fight then it was pretty much over before it began anyway.

 

The operative/scoundrel healers will still be the first choice because they lack the resource regen issues, have better instantaneous heals, and better escapes.

 

The sage/sorc will still have better AoE heals and the chances are all the fights are going to be in a relatively tight area where those type of heals will shine.

 

So I highly doubt you are going to see too many CMs int he 4v4 arenas.

[brandonkassem]

Commandos defiantly have the best survivability out of the 3 healers which will be key in 4v4's (assuming that people will focus target healers) being able to off tank, and put out almost 10k heals will be an interesting combo in arenas, In a situation where all 3 dps and tank target the healer, I see that commandos prevailing vs the other healers ( considering I drop ops/sorcs in a matter of seconds in dps spec )

[schooch]

( considering I drop ops in a matter of seconds in dps spec )

 

credibility=gone

[Powerrmongerr]

Commandos defiantly have the best survivability out of the 3 healers which will be key in 4v4's (assuming that people will focus target healers) being able to off tank, and put out almost 10k heals will be an interesting combo in arenas, In a situation where all 3 dps and tank target the healer, I see that commandos prevailing vs the other healers ( considering I drop ops/sorcs in a matter of seconds in dps spec )

 

Wut.

 

[MESSAGE TOO SHORT]

[SpaniardInfinity]

I'm actually really looking forward to Combat Medics in 4v4. The lower player count favors single target healers. Not only that, the lower cap also means the group healing weakness of Combat Medics will be less of a drawback. Match that with their sustainability (fewer players --> easier resource management) and durability and I think they stand a real shot of being capable of holding their own in arenas. Again the skill curve is still higher, but I think their tools may really start to shine when there is more focus on staying alive. Edited August 14, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[cashogy_reborn]

I'm actually really looking forward to Combat Medics in 4v4. The lower player count favors single target healers. Not only that, the lower cap also means the group healing weakness of Combat Medics will be less of a drawback. Match that with their sustainability (fewer players --> easier resource management) and durability and I think they stand a real shot of being capable of holding their own in arenas. Again the skill curve is still higher, but I think their tools may really start to shine when there is more focus on staying alive.

 

It will definitely be easier to manage in 4v4 rather than 8v8, but I dont think Commando will be able to edge out Sage or Scoundrel in healing effectiveness.

 

Especially since all cooldowns are reset at the end of every round.

[ManiacDavis]

Commandos defiantly have the best survivability out of the 3 healers which will be key in 4v4's (assuming that people will focus target healers) being able to off tank, and put out almost 10k heals will be an interesting combo in arenas, In a situation where all 3 dps and tank target the healer, I see that commandos prevailing vs the other healers ( considering I drop ops/sorcs in a matter of seconds in dps spec )

 

This is what people said pre 2.0, and look where we are now. Commando healing is still at the bottom of the barrel.

[SpaniardInfinity]

It will definitely be easier to manage in 4v4 rather than 8v8, but I dont think Commando will be able to edge out Sage or Scoundrel in healing effectiveness.

 

Especially since all cooldowns are reset at the end of every round.

 

I don't think they'll edge Scoundrels -- but Sages I think may be a different story. They are squishy, have one defensive on three minutes that also disables them for the duration, and very interrupt-prone. They're going to have to rely on their channels and bubbles because I don't think Salvation will be practical. You're going to be sprinting around a lot unable to stay in it, or there will be an AoE on it, or you'll get knocked out of it. And since you most likely won't have more than 2 people in a small area (you and your tank most likely), Salvation's effectiveness is going to take a hit.

 

Compare that to Combat Medics who have 2 defensive cooldowns (one on a much shorter cooldown), have heavier armor (it does make a difference -- get Smashed on a Sage then play as a Combat Medic, you will appreciate the extra padding), and better single-target efficiency. Hold the Line will bump up their mobility somewhat and Kolto Bomb doesn't suffer from the drawbacks of Salvation since most of its healing is up front. Electro Net is also a huge utility and looks primed to be a game-changer in arenas, potentially so much so that it might earn them a spot in arenas.

 

That's not to say that a skilled Sage won't be there -- same is true for a Combat Medic. I think skill is going to really be the determining factor. Those big numbers on scoreboards may look good, but if you're only doing fluff healing, it's not going to cut it. I think that's going to bring Combat Medics closer to the bunch, at least at first glance, inside arenas. Scoundrels of course will still have the edge, especially if they don't get a good nerfing to their resource management.

Edited August 15, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[ManiacDavis]

After the first day of arenas on the PTS. It appears OP heals are still the go to choice. Smuggle is an amazing ability to have in the opening and allows teams to get the drop on those who do not have it. Of course, the heavy reliance on OP/Scoundrel just may be because there is a lack of commando/merc heals on the PTS.

[Aramyth]

After the first day of arenas on the PTS. It appears OP heals are still the go to choice. Smuggle is an amazing ability to have in the opening and allows teams to get the drop on those who do not have it. Of course, the heavy reliance on OP/Scoundrel just may be because there is a lack of commando/merc heals on the PTS.

 

I'm down for trying, but I haven't run into any solid groups yet. I keep getting tanks who want to run away from me instead of taunting what's attacking me and some other funky things.

 

Shoot me a tell on the PTS (Aramyth) or a PM on here if you want to try running with a Commando healer.

[cashogy_reborn]

Ive given up on the solo queue for now lol. It is much, much too painful between the badness, people rage quitting, and the kick bug.

[Fellow-Canadian]

I love my commando healer, but I have to be honest.... if your 2 casted heals get interrupted you will not survive long.

[ManiacDavis]

Ive given up on the solo queue for now lol. It is much, much too painful between the badness, people rage quitting, and the kick bug.

 

I feel the same way, the amount of fail is strong with the players that I get grouped with.

Edited August 18, 2013 by ManiacDavis

[Jherad]

Commando healing is in no better a place for 4v4 than it was in 8v8. Arguably it's worse.

 

I've been doing arenas solidly over the weekend and today (I have streamed a bunch to twitch), both solo and premades, and can honestly say that the strongest teams have scoundrel/op heals, and everything else is secondary by a long way (with sages perhaps a nose ahead of CMs).

 

I'm also starting to question how useful mando DPS is now - I had great success at the start, but the best teams are learning to just put 2 melee on me for virtually the entire match. I either die, or I do next to no damage and sponge heals from the rest of the team.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Jherad

[cashogy_reborn]

Commando healing is in no better a place for 4v4 than it was in 8v8. Arguably it's worse.

 

I've been doing arenas solidly over the weekend and today (I have streamed a bunch to twitch), both solo and premades, and can honestly say that the strongest teams have scoundrel/op heals, and everything else is secondary by a long way (with sages perhaps a nose ahead of CMs).

 

I'm also starting to question how useful mando DPS is now - I had great success at the start, but the best teams are learning to just put 2 melee on me for virtually the entire match. I either die, or I do next to no damage and sponge heals from the rest of the team.

 

This is similar to my experience. Tho I had the same experience in the brief amount of time I played my sniper, and Id imagine Sage/Sorc has the same exact problem.

 

It looks like the best set-up is 2 sents, 1 guardian tank, 1 scoundrel healer.

 

 

Tho we knew that 4v4s would only bring a microscope to the class issues. Heres hoping the devs see them and are able to fix them before Arenas come out.

 

 

And somewhat unrelated, but I found arenas to be quite dull after a while. Once the novelty wore off, the combat just feels uninspired and predictable.

[Suryi]

So far in my experience mando heals feels not on par but deffinately not out of its league in 4v4. Played a few games last night with the following set up: vanguard tank, vanguard tactics, sentinel focus and combat medic and we faced mostly 2smash 1guardian tank 1op healer teams and had success versus some and lost to others, but always managed to at least get 1 round off them. The times we did lose felt like execution failures and not like the commando was dragging down the team by a significant margin.

 

I did feel the stress of having to keep people up when we're on the backfoot and in my opinion that is the weakness of the comp, no decent way to rebound when we're under pressure but we'd still need to play a lot more games to get better and work with our synergy.

 

Had I been an operative would have we won? Most likely because the op class would have carried my mistakes and would have relieved pressure in places where the mando starts to slowly fall behind. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that while we're clearly behind scouperatives in terms of viability, I did not feel like I was severely gimping my team mates (and friends) by being a stubborn bastard and insisting I healed on mando. I think it's possible to at least be a challenge, as is, as commando combat medic.

[swifferdude]

So far in my experience mando heals feels not on par but deffinately not out of its league in 4v4. Played a few games last night with the following set up: vanguard tank, vanguard tactics, sentinel focus and combat medic and we faced mostly 2smash 1guardian tank 1op healer teams and had success versus some and lost to others, but always managed to at least get 1 round off them. The times we did lose felt like execution failures and not like the commando was dragging down the team by a significant margin.

 

I did feel the stress of having to keep people up when we're on the backfoot and in my opinion that is the weakness of the comp, no decent way to rebound when we're under pressure but we'd still need to play a lot more games to get better and work with our synergy.

 

Had I been an operative would have we won? Most likely because the op class would have carried my mistakes and would have relieved pressure in places where the mando starts to slowly fall behind. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that while we're clearly behind scouperatives in terms of viability, I did not feel like I was severely gimping my team mates (and friends) by being a stubborn bastard and insisting I healed on mando. I think it's possible to at least be a challenge, as is, as commando combat medic.

 

I agree completely with this, op heals are the op healing spec for pvp. They pretty much alwayshave (cept pre 1.2) and probably always will be. The only way to get the other two on the same level is to bufff them, which the (sort of) did in 2.0 though, sages were brought to the scoundrels level (pve wise) the commandos small buffs werent really enough. The commandos are way to easy to shut down, theyre heavy armor wont mean anything if they cant use a single healing ability unless they use kolto bomb every 6secs and a bacta infusion eevery 20 ( correct me if im wrong on those) and even those heals are pretty weak, with just 4k crits on kolto bomb and 6k crits on bacta infusion, pretty sad compared to the ops 5k crit, free, insta cast, no cooldown surgical probe. They just need a little dev love, but we know that probs wont happen,. But seriously, even i could think of a few key buffs that would make them way more viable in pvp AND pve.

[cashogy_reborn]

So far in my experience mando heals feels not on par but deffinately not out of its league in 4v4. Played a few games last night with the following set up: vanguard tank, vanguard tactics, sentinel focus and combat medic and we faced mostly 2smash 1guardian tank 1op healer teams and had success versus some and lost to others, but always managed to at least get 1 round off them. The times we did lose felt like execution failures and not like the commando was dragging down the team by a significant margin.

 

I did feel the stress of having to keep people up when we're on the backfoot and in my opinion that is the weakness of the comp, no decent way to rebound when we're under pressure but we'd still need to play a lot more games to get better and work with our synergy.

 

Had I been an operative would have we won? Most likely because the op class would have carried my mistakes and would have relieved pressure in places where the mando starts to slowly fall behind. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that while we're clearly behind scouperatives in terms of viability, I did not feel like I was severely gimping my team mates (and friends) by being a stubborn bastard and insisting I healed on mando. I think it's possible to at least be a challenge, as is, as commando combat medic.

 

This is pretty much exactly how i would describe my experience healing in rwz on live.

 

Combat medic would be on par with just a couple of change. the Bacta Infusion thing discussed in the other thread I made would be a huge help imo.