The BattleZone Reboot Round 1 Match 11: Darth Traya vs. Darth Bane

[Darth_Omega]

That's true. It was the same with Anakin Skywalker.

 

 

 

She's pretty fast. However, Bane's deflection of the raindrops is very fast. The speed advantage likely goes to Bane.

 

 

 

I don't know if she can. It takes a great deal of concentration to use Force Cloak.

 

 

I agree. I don't think Traya can actually defeat Bane in lightsaber combat. But she has her own advantages in lightsaber combat. Whether those advantages can actually help her is another story.

 

 

 

Her connection to the Force had been severed. She could barely summon the energy to use them.

 

Now, I've been thinking on this whole 'using three lightsabers' thing. Originally, I planned to opt our of her using that, but we allowed Plagueis to use two lightsabers even though that isn't his primary tool. So Traya using three lightsabers is a go.

 

 

 

Bane is obviously more powerful than the three Council members. However, the Force Drain will have some sort of effect of him. When we get to such a discussion, we must decide how much of an effect it will have.

 

 

 

Bane admitted that such abilities were beyond his own abilities. But you're right, anything Traya throws at him won't really surprise him.

 

It should also be noted that Darth Bane has shown the ability to use a Death Field. This ability would have exhausted him if he weren't in a nexus, but it does show that he could use it.

 

Just throwin' it out there.

 

We need more opinions, me and beni arguing back and forth will achieve nothing.

 

Question: If Traya was severed from the force when she was using the lightsabers (source?) then she would have to have tapped into the massive dark side nexus of the trayus core to achieve that feat, so coild she do something like that without the aid of a nexus?

[Darth_Omega]

OK what have we got here, a chump? Good good. Jk jk.

 

I'd like to think that Traya is the favourite to win, and I can see her winning simply by being better. So I'll see what the opposition has to say and make counter-arguments when necessary.

 

I can tell most people here are extreme fans of Kreia. I think she's cool and all but Darth Bane is a lot cooler (in my opinion of course.)

[Aurbere]

We need more opinions, me and beni arguing back and forth will achieve nothing.

 

Question: If Traya was severed from the force when she was using the lightsabers (source?) then she would have to have tapped into the massive dark side nexus of the trayus core to achieve that feat, so coild she do something like that without the aid of a nexus?

 

She was always tapping into Malachor V's power when she was fighting.

 

I'm not sure if she could use this ability on her own. It's likely that she could, considering that she could still use it after being severed of her connection.

[Darth_Omega]

She was always tapping into Malachor V's power when she was fighting.

 

I'm not sure if she could use this ability on her own. It's likely that she could, considering that she could still use it after being severed of her connection.

 

I remember the exile cutting off traya's other hand, but I don't recall her severing her from the force. I've been searching to find the source, but to no avail. Could you point me in the right direction?

[Aurbere]

I remember the exile cutting off traya's other hand, but I don't recall her severing her from the force. I've been searching to find the source, but to no avail. Could you point me in the right direction?

 

KOTOR Campaign Guide.

 

This source was recently contested by forumers because it may be outdated. However, I feel no reason to dispute the source as I don't think either source contradicts the other in this case.

[Darth_Omega]

KOTOR Campaign Guide.

 

This source was recently contested by forumers because it may be outdated. However, I feel no reason to dispute the source as I don't think either source contradicts the other in this case.

 

Thankyou

 

I'm still trying to understand how she could do it without using the force. That would definately mean that she had to have tapped into the nexus, so there's no evidence to support that she can do it without a nexus' power.

[Darth_Omega]

When Bane has his armor he was the mindless charger with saber battle but when it was off he wasn't as mindless as it seems he is being made out to be.

 

Note that in the final battle vs Zannah he opened with overpowering strikes for a while then when she was on the ropes she wipes out some high technique acrobatic move that would've ended him as she anticipated him to continue his charge but he was nowhere close to her when she did this watching from a near distance. She then becomes worried about the waste of effort she just put forth etc.

 

Very good point. This proves how unpredictable his style really was.

[Selenial]

Thankyou

 

I'm still trying to understand how she could do it without using the force. That would definately mean that she had to have tapped into the nexus, so there's no evidence to support that she can do it without a nexus' power.

 

Someone with minimal connection to the force in a force nexus, has less power than a normal Jedi/Sith, obviously, or any republic soldier who arrived on Malachor, or even Hanharr, would be able to use the force.

 

Thus, she did it with less power than normal, so she could do it alone too.

Being in a nexus doesn't let you do things you didn't already know how to do...

[Darth_Omega]

See my link, she can move fast enough to dodge a volley of lightsaber strikes. Whether that makes her faster than Bane is a different story, but she can keep up.

 

Traya was highly skilled in the use of Force concealment and Force stealth, meaning she can render herself invisible both from sight and from sense with a moments notice. I see no reason why she wouldn't be able to use this when not engaging in lightsaber combat with Bane.

 

Given the fact that she can percieve shatterpoints on a large scale, in events etc. like Mace Windu, the master of shatterpoint. We can assume she was able to see shatterpoints in this midst of battle which all other users of shatterpoint have been capable of i.e. Cade Skywalker. Though we should note that is you play DS and confront the Jedi Council Members in battle she (presumably) uses shatterpoint to recognize their forms and its weaknesses.

 

I never said Traya can defeat Bane in lightsaber combat, but that we should not assume her abilities to be lacking. And like I said before, shatterpoint will work to dampen the advantages of his unpredictable form.

 

And finally it should be noted that Traya was severed from the Force when she performed that move, drawing on the last reserves of her strength to perform it. With her full abilities at her disposal the effects would be far more potent. Regardless Bane will not be able to reach Traya with three lightsabers blocking his path. Attempting to do so will only leave his exposed.

 

And no, her Force drain won't work as well, but being able to diminish his Force powers and bolster her own is an undeniable advantage. She can use it to weaken him and in particular weaken is Force rage which makes up for a large majority of his strength. Force drain is paper to Force valor's rock.

 

P.S. Force drain is not a power in the sphere of Sith Sorcery (a power Bane could not wield) and cannot be defended against through conventional means. There is nothing he can do to stop the attack.

 

Can I get a source and possibly a quote for the force stealth thing? I've never seen or heard of her using this ability anywhere.

[Darth_Omega]

Someone with minimal connection to the force in a force nexus, has less power than a normal Jedi/Sith, obviously, or any republic soldier who arrived on Malachor, or even Hanharr, would be able to use the force.

 

Thus, she did it with less power than normal, so she could do it alone too.

Being in a nexus doesn't let you do things you didn't already know how to do...

 

Bane projected a death field by tapping into Andeddu's keep despite never doing such a thing before.

[Selenial]

Bane projected a death field by tapping into Andeddu's keep despite never doing such a thing before.

 

He new more basic levels, couldn't perform higher with his own power but the nexus let him.

 

Different with Traya, when she fought with 3 blades she had diminished power than usual, I'm just saying the nexus couldn't teach her how to do it, especially if she had less power than before.

[Darth_Omega]

He new more basic levels, couldn't perform higher with his own power but the nexus let him.

 

Different with Traya, when she fought with 3 blades she had diminished power than usual, I'm just saying the nexus couldn't teach her how to do it, especially if she had less power than before.

 

Thing is, the Trayus core was very powerful, even severed from the force, traya's farsight was even more powerful than before. So its not unlikely that she could only weild 3 lightsabers at once because of its power. Without it, I'd say she couldn't weild them as effectively.

[Selenial]

Thing is, the Trayus core was very powerful, even severed from the force, traya's farsight was even more powerful than before. So its not unlikely that she could only weild 3 lightsabers at once because of its power. Without it, I'd say she couldn't weild them as effectively.

 

Not really.

Before: Predicted the fall of the republic and rise of the Empire, and Jango Fetts death 4000 years later...

After: Predicts things a few 2 years down the line.

 

 

Besides, I'm of the belief she wasn't completely severed.

[Darth_Omega]

Not really.

Before: Predicted the fall of the republic and rise of the Empire, and Jango Fetts death 4000 years later...

After: Predicts things a few 2 years down the line.

 

 

Besides, I'm of the belief she wasn't completely severed.

 

She couldn't have been completely severed. And didn't she predict jango's death when you asked about canderous? I think that the republic falling was merely traya stating how she felt it would fall. Regardless, Traya wasn't any weaker than her normal self when she tapped into the power of the trayus core. Remember, when she used the 3 lightsabers she couldn't move around or use any other force powers, so it must have required immense concentration.

 

Who do you think would win Selenial? We need more input

[marcelo_sdk]

That's one of those cases where theory and the real-thing are very different. In theory, Traya is, at least, very close in power to Bane. But in a fight, I have no doubt she would be overwhelmed by Bane. Her Force Powers wouldn't be nearly enough to beat the Sith'ari, not even Force Drain. And in lightsaber combat, well, it's quite obvious Bane would have a swift victory.

 

That's what I think, this match, for me, is as unbalanced as Darth Vader vs. Sora Bulq.

Edited August 2, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[Aurbere]

That's one of those cases where theory and the real-thing are very different. In theory, Traya is, at least, very close in power to Bane. But in a fight, I have no doubt she would be overwhelmed by Bane. Her Force Powers wouldn't be nearly enough to beat the Sith'ari, not even Force Drain. And in lightsaber combat, well, it's quite obvious Bane would have a swift victory.

 

That's what I think, this match, for me, is as unbalanced as Darth Vader vs. Sora Bulq.

 

Let's not go that far. This is not a ROFLstomp at all.

[Darth_Omega]

Let's not go that far. This is not a ROFLstomp at all.

 

Definately, this will be a very close match. It could go either way.

[marcelo_sdk]

Well, I don't see any scenario which Traya is victorius. If someone can provide one, I would gladly read it.

[Selenial]

She couldn't have been completely severed. And didn't she predict jango's death when you asked about canderous? I think that the republic falling was merely traya stating how she felt it would fall. Regardless, Traya wasn't any weaker than her normal self when she tapped into the power of the trayus core. Remember, when she used the 3 lightsabers she couldn't move around or use any other force powers, so it must have required immense concentration.

 

Who do you think would win Selenial? We need more input

 

Id go with Traya, because again, Nexus' are like an augmentation to a force users power...

Think of it like this

 

Blue Armor, 70 willpower 50 endurance. At the Trayus core, extra +12 willpower and 10 endurance.....

Strip away the stats of the Blue armor (Half it, maybe less) and you're no better off than if you weren't in the core and your normal self... (Leaves you with 48 willpower, where you had 70 before)

 

 

What that long and pretty pointless explanation was saying, was Severed in he core she was still weaker than before, so she could probably do what she did under normal circumstances...

 

I think her force drain, and mastery of many obscure powers would give her an easy chance to Dominate, as long as she coupled it with Force Concealment, whenever bane got too close...

[tunewalker]

Ok on the whole Traya saber skill thing. People are giving her way to much credit, she only has 1 hand the ability to block power blows are severely diminished and to top it all off when talking about saber skills she considers both herself and Meetra to be Amateurs at best. So while powerful in the force I do not believe we have any reason to believe her to be a skilled duelist, competent yes, but being able to disengage or being able to hold off a guy who is incredibly skilled and strong I highly doubt it both her Force power focus and her Physical frailties prevent this.

 

The difference with Zannah is Zannah was an exceptional duelist in addition to the sith sorcery, Traya simply put isn't when she even calls herself an amateur you should know she as at a disadvantage. And a random thought on this one but Bane's Curved hilt should also be mentioned allowing him to get different angles and some times even stronger power blows. Traya does not have enough physical strength, enough speed, enough stamina to hold out against a viscious physical blade work or keep him at a distance. She may be stronger in the force but the difference in Force ability is simply not enough to overcome all of her other defficiancies which she openly admits about herself.

[Selenial]

Oh come on Tunewalker.... You know better

 

She never calls herself an amateur, she says compared to the ancients, everyone of their era is. You're taking the quote way out of context.

Sorcerers whose Weakpoint is saber skill generally don't let their opponents engage them in melee range anyway, and even if he got close enough, she would be able to hold her own for long enough to conceal herself.

 

Also, I'd like to note, a curved hilt has no advantage to strength.

 

In fact, she could easily employ Trakata to counter his power attacks. In case you're not aware, Trakata is the skill of turning a blade off when an opponent is halfway through a strike, making them falter and lost balance.

[tunewalker]

Oh come on Tunewalker.... You know better

 

She never calls herself an amateur, she says compared to the ancients, everyone of their era is. You're taking the quote way out of context.

Sorcerers whose Weakpoint is saber skill generally don't let their opponents engage them in melee range anyway, and even if he got close enough, she would be able to hold her own for long enough to conceal herself.

 

Also, I'd like to note, a curved hilt has no advantage to strength.

 

In fact, she could easily employ Trakata to counter his power attacks. In case you're not aware, Trakata is the skill of turning a blade off when an opponent is halfway through a strike, making them falter and lost balance.

 

lol I thought I might get away with it , but it should be noted that I do not believe Bane would be like what she describes everyone from that era to be. He is 2000 years later and a master saber duelist if every one is an amateur by the ancient standards and Bane is argueably not an amateur by Ancient standards it stands to reason she is amateurish by comparison.

 

The curved hilt has small advantage to strength by having an easier grip on the weapon by not having to worry about losing your grip since the weapon fits better in your palm you can deliver harder hits.

 

I am also aware of Trakata, as well as its dangers if she does so it could risk her life, but it could throw him off balance just long enough for her to attempt to get away. This being said I still do not see her staying away for very long. If she was as good at that as people say I wonder why we never see her employ such a tactic in combat, she either decimates with her force powers or she is forced into both melee and force engagement and in a melee engagement her body is frail enough that a punch to the gut could likely slump her over and leave her vunerable she has shown considerable physical frailty something that against a physical power house can and likely would prove fatal.

 

His power in the force is also not so weak that she could easily one shot him with the force . All in all I see no reason she can really escape for more then a few seconds bane has shown much better speed feats and once he is in saber combat her skills do not seem to compare to his well enough for her to stand for very long.

[Darth_Omega]

I'm going to do a battle scenario, but first, after rereading the final fight between Bane and Zannah, I'm going to post some qoutes about bane's abilities as shown in that fight.

 

Speed:

 

"Zannah intercepted his blade with one of her own, angling her weapon so that the momentum of Bane's attack was redirected downward, sending the tip of his lightsaber into the dirt. This should have exposed him to a counterthrust, but he was already reacting to her move, driving his entire body forward into Zannah's before she could bring her weapon up."

 

"He was faster than she ever could have imagined,"

 

Strength:

 

"She easily blocked each blow, but the momentum of the crushing impact caused her to stagger back, throwing her off balance."

 

Unpredictible style:

 

"Her defensive style was simple, but performed correctly it was nearly impenetrable. Realizing this, Bane backed off and changed tactics. Instead of a savage, relentless pursuit meant to overwhelm her, he settled into a pattern of feints and quick thrusts, probing and prodding her defenses in search of a weakness as the two of them settled in for a long battle of attrition."

 

"His style back then had been brutish and simple (when he possesed the orbalisk armor), though undeniably effective. Now, however, his technique was more advanced. Unable to simply bully his way heedlessly forward, he had developed an unpredictable, seemingly random style. Each time she thought she could anticipate where the next attack was coming from, he changed tactics, disrupting the rhythm of the battle and causing her to give ground."

 

"Zannah had threw herself into a back handspring, flipping head over heels three times in a quick succesion just to put some space between her and Bane. Before the fourth one she suddenly stopped and went into a crouch, thrusting forward with her lightsaber like a spear to impale her opponent as he charged after her in pursuit... only Bane wasn't there. Anticipating her move, he had stopped several meters away."

 

Knowledge of defense against sorcery:

 

"Dark side sorcery was complex; it attacked the psyche in ways that were difficult to explain and even more difficult to defend against. Bane had no talent for it, yet he did his best to study the techniques. What he learned was that the only real counter was the victims strength of will."

 

(Regarding the mental attack of illusions Zannah was using against him) "He knew how to defeat these demons, and he struck back. Unleashing a primal scream, he channeled his terror into pure rage and lashed out with the dark side. It tore through the swarm in a burst of searing violet light, utterly obliterating them." (It also knocked Zannah back)

 

"She didn't let her concentration falter. Bane's mind was stong; if she let up even for an instant he might break free from the spell."

 

The only way Zannah could beat him was by summoning dark side tendrils, which was a black mist of pure dark side energy that formed into tenticals and attacked him. These tendrils distintigrated flesh and bone on contact, and they were completely impossible to defend against. In order to fight against them, in Bane's own words, he had to kill her before she killed him. I doubt Traya knew how to use an ability like this.

 

Now, the battle scenario:

 

The two sith lords stood facing each other, neither knew who the other was. Both of them intelligent, they knew that the enemy couldn't be underestimated, they both could sense the tremendus amount of force power in the other.

 

Bane and Traya had leapt to the center of the battlefield, igniting their lightsabers mid jump and engaging in a duel when landed. Traya knew she couldn't blindly entercthe offensive with her opponents strikes being as fast and strong as they were. His style highly unpredictable, it was difficult for even her to exploit an opening, so she had to rely on soresu.

 

Taking the best chance she got, Traya moved into an offensive makashi forcing Bane on the defense, hoping she could work his bladework away. But Bane's strong counterblows forced her back onto the defensive. Realizing she could not best him in lightsaber combat, Traya leapt away from her foe.

 

With a new strategy to attack her opponents mind, exploiting a shatterpoint in his defensive barrier over his mind, Traya tore through the shield and began to torment her opponent. She used dun moch, exploiting the fears she found deep within his mind, and used them to taunt him, hoping to break his will. But Bane's mind was strong. He mastered his fears, not vice versa. He turned his fear into anger and called upon that power to let out a powerful force scream, breaking Traya's hold on his mind.

 

Traya had quickly realized that mind techniques would get her nowhere, so she decided to use a technique she was sure that he was unfamiliar with. In an instant, she revealed 3 lightsabers hidden in her belt, and began to telekinetcally wield them all at once. Surely enough, Bane was caught by surprise.

 

There were two options on how to attack using this technique. She could go for an all offensive, and send all three at once to attack Bane, but no, that would leave her body to vulnerable for attack. Instead, she opted to send two lightsabers to attack him (focusing half of her attention on those two lightsabers; one fourth on each) and kept the third lightsaber closer to her for defense, and also keeping her main lightsaber in her hand (focusing her other half of her attention on her defense; one fourth on the last telekinetically wielded lightsaber and one fourth on her body, just incase she needed to throw up a force sheild).

 

Sending the two lightsabers at Bane, Traya threw her plan into motion. Bane fell into a defensive stance, blocking the lightsabers blows, however he realized that her attention was spread evenly across them, allowing him to destroy the first lightsaber with ease. Now with a full half of her attention, the second lightsaber was much more difficult to throw a good counterattack against. Using his unpredictability to his advantage, he started chargin towards Traya, the second lightsaber following quickly in pursuit. At the final moment, Bane swung around, blocking the lightsabers attack, and dealing a quick blow to the hilt, effectively destroying it.

 

With her attention on the lightsaber broken, Traya was nearly caught off guard by Bane now attacking at her body. She used the lightsaber she held in her hand to block his attacks. She nearly forgot about the third lightsaber, which was clumsily striking at Bane. He took advantage of this, spinning and destoying it quickly. At that moment, Traya could have attacked him, but she knew he would be able to block the strike, so instead she hesitated, and when Bane made another stike at her, she disappeared from sight.

 

Bane knew she had just been there, but he could no longer see her or sense her through the force. But Bane was no fool, he knew she couldn't have gon far. Bane lashed out with the force, sending a powerful force wave in all directions away from him.

 

Traya had felt it coming. If she let it hit her, it would render her visable and open her up for an easy attack by knocking her down. So, cursing under her breath, she threw up a force shield, knowing it would give away her location.

 

There she is! Bane had found her! He came after her quickly, engaging in another duel with her. Her defenses were growing weaker, and in a final decisive strike, he severed her remaing hand.

 

The pain was immense, but nothing she couldn't handle. Traya moved back quickly and unleashed her last hope upon Bane, Force Drain.

 

Bane fell to the ground, experiencing a pain more powerful than any he had ever felt before. However, he recognized the ability as being similar to the death field he had once projected. Not knowing how to defend against it, he tapped into the pain, turning it into power to unleash barrage of force lightning at his enemy.

 

With the force lightning headed her way, Traya's concentration was broken on her force drain, but it had to be done in order to deflect the lightning.

 

With his energy dimished a bit, and Traya's restored some, they both had about an equal amounf of energy. But Bane wasn't about to let her attack. With Traya completely unarmed, she could not defend against his lightsaber. Bane quickly began to attack Traya, using and all offensive stance. Traya moved with speed and precision, avoiding his attacks, but unable to defend against his lightsaber, she was at an extreme disadvantage. Attempting to leap away in mid air, Bane sliced completey through her waist, cutting her in half.

 

Traya was lying on the ground, attempting to call on the force to heal herself. Bane knew he had to end her now. In a swift move, he reached out with the force and crushed her heart, effectively ending the life of his most fierce opponent.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Darth_Omega

[Selenial]

Will post my argument layer, got a 6 hour journey now, only half of it with Wi-fi

 

I'll post it when I arrive rather than on the plane, 'cause I'm not going to use my laptop till I get there.

[tunewalker]

Will post my argument layer, got a 6 hour journey now, only half of it with Wi-fi

 

I'll post it when I arrive rather than on the plane, 'cause I'm not going to use my laptop till I get there.

 

take your time I am sure everyone will enjoy picking apart both scenarios