I Want To Like TOR, But It Just Feels Old

[Jezryk]

The following are some things that make TOR feel old:

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

 

I am actually happy that there is no LFG-Tool. The LFG-Tool of WoW is, in it's basics, a good idea, but it just doesn't work. During WotLk where you actually needed some brain cells to defeat some heroic bosses, the LFG-feature mostly resulted in frustration and rep-costs. On top of that, it destoyed the interaction of players in the same realm. They didn't need to look for people anymore, so they didn't get to know new people. Most of the guys I raided with in WoW where people I "found" during my leveling and dungeon-phase. Som of them became close friends to me. With the insertion of the lfg-tool people stopped to actually interact with each other.

 

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

 

I never understood why people complain about the UI of SWTOR. It has everything I need. Two bottom skill-bars, one on the right corner and buttons for inventory/character screen/etc. where they do not disturb me. But I see your point.

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others; it's safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that's passable in 2011

 

The only problem I have with the AI is that they automatically activate some skills you deactivated, which can result in a quick death for my companion and me. But other than that my Vette or Corso doesn't act more stupid than, let's say, my void walker or felguard.

 

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

Well, you can't have a mmo with state of the art graphics. They tried it with everquest 2 and it was nearly unplayable for a lot of people. But I see your point. Most people want their games to be flashy and realistic in graphics. Well, I am not most people. I rather enjoy donkey kong country 2 on my SNES then Crysis 2 on the PC. Games are about fun, not about visuals. At least for me.

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

Here I have to actually be on your side. Especially since I am a roleplayer. It's just not right that I can be on, let's say, Tatooine for two days straight without the sky getting dark even once.

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

 

It's better than ridicously stupid underwater lightsaber-fights. Or, to compare it to WoW, underwater fireballs.

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

These queues must be adressed asap. After their stress-test weekends they should have shown to them the capacity they need and the behavior of players. The problem is, bioware thinks that players are smart people. It would be the logical conclusion to pick the less populated server from, let's say 2 to pick, when one of them is FULL. But Players are neither smart nor they think logically. More people = more partners to play with. More people = more idiots to sell overpriced items to. And then there's this whole friend of friend of friend is playing there business. Bioware has, without a doubt, something to do here. It's just not acceptable.

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

 

I am disapointed with that too. But I am waiting patiently for the addiotonal options bioware promised in due time.

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

 

The higher your level is, the more time it takes to gain a level. That's a rpg-basic. Never played a game where it is different(except the elder scrolls, but even there it takes longer with higher levels since oblivion). So I don't really get your point here.

 

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again; TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

 

To me, Hutball is the most fun and teamplay-based warzone I've ever played in a mmo. It's fast, it's not just about killing and every class has a role it excels in. I didn't have so much fun with pvp in a long time. And I know a handful of people who think the same. Only thing that's disturbing me is the fact that I can't queue for a specific battleground.

 

- No Macros

 

 

The lack of macros has it's ups and downs. But I am quite happy to don't get spammed in pvp or flashpoints because some guy linked all his abilities to stupid quotes.

 

- No mouseover casting

 

Never used it in other games. I rarely use the mouse at all.

 

- No addon support

 

They said there will be addon support. Can't blame them to not make it accessible during release. They first have to look that the game's working fluently. I can understand Biowares decision here.

 

- No Dual Spec

 

I REALLY want to have dualspec, too. But it's not so important that I can't wait for one or two months to get it implemented. And Bioware said they would implement it.

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game's release build)

 

Since I am a programmer myself I know how hard it is to locate the source of a memory leak and to work around it. It can take quite a while and needs enourmous amounts of long-time testing. They fixed it in early access which is early enough to me.

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

 

They added a lot of variation? Well yeah, and while doing that they destroyed most of the old leveling-zones. I really miss my interesting storylines in duskwood. But that's beside the point. SWTOR is storydriven. You work towards a major goal. That's what should motivate the player, not the quest objectives. And it's hard to implement variety. The more variety you implement, the more bugs can occur. The more bugs occur the longer development-time gets. The longer they need for development the more features will be implemented by other games. It's a, how do you call it in english? Devils spiral? It just never ends, so you, as a developer, have to draw a line between things that are important for the fluenty of the game and things that are nice to have but not necessary in the core build. I know that TOR is competing with the WoW of today, not the WoW of 2004, but it's not possible for a "small" company to implement the same amount of features in 2-3 years developmant as a giant like blizzard in about 10 years. It's just not realistic. As a player you have to accept some deficits if you want to give the game a realistic chance.

 

 

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

 

Otherwise it would have been too expensive. I am happy that there's voice acting at all. And that the voice acting is, mostly, well done.

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

That's a joke, right? Things like that are called catch-phrases. I don't know about you, but every person I know has their own two or three catch-phrases they use ridiciously often.

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

 

In a mmo it's not possible to get the whole story of the game influenced by your decisions and morality. It would require an amount of phasing that would split the population of a server even more than the instancing already does. TOR is not a sandbos. it's a nice feature for customization of your character, of your story. Nothing more, nothing less. Was never said to be more than this.

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

 

You don't need a mount before Tatooine. When you reach Tatooine you're about level 25-28 in most cases. I think the level is well picked for the need of a mount. I never liked that they made the mounts in WoW accessible with level 20. In early times, mounts were something to work for. Today they're just something else you can collect to get the time by.

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

Star Wars always had credits. They could've implemented the hutts money as alternative, but it would have been two different money systems in one game. There are no categorizations like "gold", "silver" and whatever. It's just credits. And like someone else said, 500.000 credits are like 5k Gold.

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

There will never be a product without bugs. NEVER. And in TOR I rarely found something that was "destracting from gameplay". Only some little things that just weren't quite right. Nothing game-breaking.

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW's Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

 

Saywhatnow? The whole crafting system(and orange gear) is build around the sole need of customization. The game just needs some more orange costume designs. But that'll be implemented with coming content. The basics are set- and working - with the games release and didn't need 7 years to implement. It's just another way to reach the goal. And WoWs transmogrification sucks by the way. DCUO and Champions implemented those features WAY better. But these games are all about your characters looks.

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

 

I think you don't need a barbershop until new customization features are implemented. You are the one who creates your character, so it is only logical to think that it looks like you want it to look.

 

 

Some of your points are valid, others are highly subjective and the majority are issues bioware already stated that they are working on them. The first content patch will most likely be released in january. Why don't we just wait what features(and how much) will be implemented? The game's constantly evolving, and when bioware keeps the speed, at an astounding rate. The basics for most features are already set and present. Now they only have to be tuned and rolled out. Maybe you should just stop playing the game if it's no fun for you and give it a shot in half a year or so.

[LuNkHeAd]

I think the real problem with this game is there is no bathroom system

[Duffelbag]

I'll take a stab at it because honestly, I think it's a pretty structured post and I can see your way on a lot of them. From the top then:

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

I think the game works well enough without a tool per se but it would definitely benefit from a global lfg channel. Most of the actual flashpoint recruitment takes place on the fleet but it's counter productive to hang around there for ages just to see when others are available for the place You want to go.

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

Awful is a strong word but there are definitely some features missing. It's serviceable, it's sufficient, it will do but that is hardly high praise for a title this hyped.

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others; it's safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that's passable in 2011

The AI isn't as terrible as you make it out to be but the delay before they spring into action just makes everything feel slow. The pathing is poor, I'm right with you on that. I noticed that especially when sending them off to gather materials.

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

The graphics are fine to me, really. Sure, it's not Crysis 2 but as far as MMOs go it's stellar. Sure, the skyboxes could do with some work but overall I think it looks great. This one comes down to preference.

- No Day/Night Cylce

This would be nice, I'm with you 100% on this one. I'm sure it's on the wall of crazy though.

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

BW has stated that they don't want to just shoehorn swimming into the game just for the sake of having it. If/when they add it they'll add it as part of some sort of actual game element and that's the right way to do it.

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

Honestly though, what did you expect? The title is massive with more players on it than any other mmo at launch, wow included. Keep in mind, they did a rolling start to ease players into it and there were Still a tsunami of players flooding the servers. Now, the queues are quite manageable, even on high pop servers. I think they rode the storm quite well on this. Besides, naturally Blizz has adapted to it, they've been in the MMO business for almost a decade. BW hasn't been in it for a full month yet.

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

I can agree with this to some degree. I would have liked to see more options here, especially considering just how much focus there is in making your character feel unique to each player.

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

Alright, now you're just pulling things out of your rear. I hit 50 yesterday and I don't think I spent more than at most 8 hours on each level and there was always something to do. In Aion there wasn't; once past 25 you had to bite the grind sandvich and you better like it too. Past 30 it wasn't a game anymore, it was a job.

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again; TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

Sure it could benefit from getting ranked pvp and we will get that. It's not fair to compare TOR to WoW now though. Keep in mind, when WoW was released it had Nothing in terms of pvp, nothing. There are now Currently 3 warzones with ranked an upcoming feature. It's way too early to give up here.

 

- No Macros

Upcoming feature.

 

- No mouseover casting

This I would like to see as well. Removing debuffs is clunky as hell as it is.

 

- No addon support

Probably coming at some point.

 

- No Dual Spec

Upcoming feature.

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game's release build)

I never noticed those myself but if they're as bad as you say they'll be addressed in due time.

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

Honestly though, you've got your Kill X, loot Y, fetch Z, escort xx, deliver xy and use vehicle to kill xz. There is variation and I think it's pretty funny that you hold up WoW as the example of variation here. It's really no different over there either.

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

I noticed a few of them but not enough to bother me.

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

There is an absolutely staggering amount of conversation pieces in the game. Imagine how much bigger it would be if the same line was never used twice.

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

On the MMO stage it's a new feature. Sure it's not as impressive as those single player games you mentioned but still a nice feature to have rather than not.

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

Honestly though, the early mount in wow situation is borderline ridiculous. Back at 40 you actually valued the damn thing, now it's like they're giving them away with tea and crumpets.

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

Try running a crafting skill alongside it and you'll see how much gold you'll have at 40. Besides, I've yet to see any signs of this inflation of yours.

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

There are a few of them of course but it's not like they won't get fixed.

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW's Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

Wrong, the mod system is exactly that. Sure it costs a bit but you can actually wear stuff you pick up in the Esseles at 50 with up to date mods.

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

Upcoming feature, can bet my life on it.

 

- More — I will expand on this as more things pop into my mind, these are the ones currently at the forefront of my thought process

[TofuMask]

I think the real problem with this game is there is no bathroom system

Sadly you hit the nail here.

My trooper has to remove his entire armor ENTIRE ARMOR if he has to pee.

Damn BW, give us bathrooms in social hubs or at least on our own ship!

WoW has it since Vanilla!

Wait...

 

On a serious note we are all feeding the troll here, and for way too long.

Obviously it's a matter of tastes and points of view.

Have fun if you want.

If not, there's a customer service to address for bugs and the like.

 

Enjoy your game, whichever it may be.

Edited December 30, 2011 by TofuMask

[eclap]

I'm seriously fed up with people defending this game with lame arguments like "WoW" didn't have these features at launch either. WoW came out 7 years ago! Surely the standard is somewhere else now? Or at least should be? I'm not expecting WoW polish from this and bugs are to be expected, but some of the very basic features missing are just ridiculous. Why can't I filter which warzones I want to queue for? Why can't I scale the ui? The op never said he wanted to play wow, he wants this game to be better by having some basic features.

[SnoggyMack]

Surely the standard is somewhere else now?

 

No, the standard isn't really anywhere else now. Look at the MMORPGs released in the past few years or so. Things like Star Trek Online, Tabula Rasa, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Rift. This game's launch has been smoother than all of those.

 

The one MMORPG I've beta tested that's been smoother than TOR is DCUniverse Online. Then again, that game died a horrible death because of Sony's security breach.

 

So no, the standards for MMORPG release have not changed. Not in this entire decade. They all launch with bugs and lag and if they're huge (like this one is), they have queues.

 

PvP wasn't good in any of them at launch. PvP is barely good in any of them years later. MMORPGs are the absolute worst gaming genre for Player versus Player. You get better results with Madden Football online or Team Fortress 2 than you ever will from an MMORPG.

 

The UI for each of the games mentioned in this post all needed work after release.

 

None of this is a big deal. TOR's launch was smooth in comparison. In comparison to the biggest MMORPG out there. And in comparison to the myriad of MMOs that have launched recently.

 

The game is fine. Devs are working on it. Since you can't go back in time, your choices are to take a break or stick with it. That's totally up to you.

[Minack]

lol You people get so hostile when anyone dares to bring up faults with this game or BW/EA. It's bordering on cult worship tbh. I know you people have waited years. I know you have spent gobs of money to upgrade your PCs. I know it's the only decent StarWars mmo at the moment. But folks, criticizing this game doesn't reflect on you personally one tiny bit.

 

Say it with me folks: It's okay to criticize this game. It's okay to criticize this game...

 

 

There. Feel better?

[TofuMask]

lol You people get so hostile when anyone dares to bring up faults with this game or BW/EA. It's bordering on cult worship tbh. I know you people have waited years. I know you have spent gobs of money to upgrade your PCs. I know it's the only decent StarWars mmo at the moment. But folks, criticizing this game doesn't reflect on you personally one tiny bit.

 

Say it with me folks: It's okay to criticize this game. It's okay to criticize this game...

 

 

There. Feel better?

Like someone much wiser than me already said:

 

"Just saying something sucks doesn't make it 'feedback'... "

 

Now repeat it with me....

[Minack]

Like someone much wiser than me already said:

 

"Just saying something sucks doesn't make it 'feedback'... "

 

Now repeat it with me....

 

 

Reading comprehension isn't your thing I take it?

 

The OP left a considerable list that described HIS issues with the game. I don't agree with all of them but he at least listed the ones he had the most to complain about. And, as if on cue, the Fanboys charge in here with the usual stale "go back to wow" or "This is the smoothest launch ever!"

[Stelakh]

You know, I said pretty much the same thing in a post I made following a weekend Beta.

 

If for no other reason, SWTOR feels like a very old game because of the graphics. They're sub-standard in today's world.

 

As much as people want to say "go back to WoW" because of some childish and inane desire to defend this game with the passion of any overzealous SW fanboi, the truth is the truth. (And I've never played WoW. I think WoW fanbois are idiots, too. Did I mention I say what I think, and am not a nice person?)

 

SWTOR looks old. It feels old due to the way it looks. Combat comes down to button mashing. Nothing really sets it apart from any other MMO - except the Star Wars name and weapons.

 

I think Bioware were banking on the fact that since it's called "Star Wars," those who blindly follow anything with the SW name on it would play it, defend it, and spend money on it.

 

It's a very, very, very sad statement that they were right about that. It's obvious. Anyone who says even the least negative thing about the game is flamed on these forums - and that's really pathetic.

 

But, since I'm not really a fan of Star Wars, I can look at this game objectively and say: I'm here because I enjoy playing games with my friends. They're a fun group of people. If I were here just for SWTOR, I wouldn't be here at all - because the game needs a LOT of work.

[TofuMask]

Reading comprehension isn't your thing I take it?

 

The OP left a considerable list that described HIS issues with the game. I don't agree with all of them but he at least listed the ones he had the most to complain about. And, as if on cue, the Fanboys charge in here with the usual stale "go back to wow" or "This is the smoothest launch ever!"

 

Ouch, sorry man, I beg you pardon.

I just read an utterly arrogant and blatantly hostile post about some random guy who dislikes people who dislike other people who dislike a game for totally personal reasons.

Obviously it wasn't you but someone with a very similar username and avatar.

Ten thousand times sorry.

 

 

Jeez.

[Kamidutten]

 

Here I have to actually be on your side. Especially since I am a roleplayer. It's just not right that I can be on, let's say, Tatooine for two days straight without the sky getting dark even once.

 

 

Well, i dont know the Star Wars universe lore, but this about the day/night cycles. Cycles is something we mostly base upon how it is on earth. Taking a real planet like Venus for example, a day there lasts for 243 earth days. So maybe Tattoine has a similar rotation speed? I have no idea, a lore buff would have to straighten that out.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Kamidutten

[SpirtikusTor]

You know, I said pretty much the same thing in a post I made following a weekend Beta.

 

If for no other reason, SWTOR feels like a very old game because of the graphics. They're sub-standard in today's world.

 

As much as people want to say "go back to WoW" because of some childish and inane desire to defend this game with the passion of any overzealous SW fanboi, the truth is the truth. (And I've never played WoW. I think WoW fanbois are idiots, too. Did I mention I say what I think, and am not a nice person?)

 

SWTOR looks old. It feels old due to the way it looks. Combat comes down to button mashing. Nothing really sets it apart from any other MMO - except the Star Wars name and weapons.

 

I think Bioware were banking on the fact that since it's called "Star Wars," those who blindly follow anything with the SW name on it would play it, defend it, and spend money on it.

 

It's a very, very, very sad statement that they were right about that. It's obvious. Anyone who says even the least negative thing about the game is flamed on these forums - and that's really pathetic.

 

But, since I'm not really a fan of Star Wars, I can look at this game objectively and say: I'm here because I enjoy playing games with my friends. They're a fun group of people. If I were here just for SWTOR, I wouldn't be here at all - because the game needs a LOT of work.

 

Yea I totally agree, A game with NOTPERFECT graphics is really bad, considering leaving SWTOR because of that.

And yea I totally agree that this game is no different to WoW or other MMO"s, really its just the same stuff.

 

Lol...

[Shadysketchy]

Well, i dont know the Star Wars universe lore, but this about the day/night cycles. Cycles is something we mostly base upon how it is on earth. Taking a real planet like Venus for example, a day there lasts for 243 earth days. So maybe Tattoine has a similar rotation speed? I have no idea, a lore buff would have to straighten that out.

 

We see Tattooine at night time, and day time, in the movies; if their day/night cycle is off from our's, it's only by a few hours at the most

 

Same with various other planets in the game, like Coruscant, and Hoth

 

Sure, maybe there's some planets out there, with a different cycle, but there's clearly a lot with the same, or similar cycle to Earth's. Surely, with this game's massive budget, they could have afforded to tweak the day/night cycle on a few planets, if need be; not doing so was just skipping a feature

[HailSithis]

I think what the fanboys don't realize is that most people don't go to the forums. The majority of the community is just playing the game, and a lot of the people who are playing the game, and not talking in the forums, feel the same way about the game as the people voicing opinions here.

 

If a LOT of people are in the forums saying things like "The lack of UI customization in this game really bothers me. It feels like a step backwards from other MMOs I've played before", then sure enough if you poll a random guild in TOR, there will be people who feel the same way.

 

The forums are something of a canary in the mine.

 

There's a lot of venom spewing from some folks of "if you don't like the game, go somewhere else", to which all I have to say is: THEY WILL go somewhere else if some of the issues aren't addressed within their tolerance, and let me tell ya', empty servers are less fun!

[Msbungle]

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

 

This one always makes me laugh. If the server pop was low and you never saw anyone, then you'd be saying the game felt old and dead too. I'm glad my server has a short que. It means that when subs drop there will still be people to group with.

 

This alone shows that you are the type that won't be happy no matter what.

 

As for some of your other complaints, if you want to play a game that has all the features of WoW, then go play WoW. This is like walking into Burger King and complaining that you can't get a Big Mac there.

[Msbungle]

 

As much as people want to say "go back to WoW" because of some childish and inane desire to defend this game with the passion of any overzealous SW fanboi, the truth is the truth. (And I've never played WoW. I think WoW fanbois are idiots, too. Did I mention I say what I think, and am not a nice person?)

 

SWTOR looks old.

 

What does saying what you think have to do with being a nice person or not?

 

If you've never played WoW, then you don't understand why the OP and others are being told to go back to WoW. It is because the things they are asking for are things that are predominant in WoW. If they would say "I would like to be able to change my toons hairstyles" instead of "I want a barber shop", then people wouldn't tell them to go back to WoW. That is because the things they are asking for and in the way they are asking tells others that this is mainly from a "WoW-perspective".

 

I agree, the graphics (particularly the backgrounds and gear) look a bit dated. But once again, that has nothing to do with why people have told him to go back to WoW. Much of what he asked for is particular to WoW, not all MMO's.

 

And I too would tell him to go back to WoW, but not because I'm a fanbois, fangirl or whatever lame name people want to call one another. I would say it because if there is something you want, you should acquire and pay for that and not waste your time with things you obviously don't enjoy.

[SpirtikusTor]

I would say it because if there is something you want, you should acquire and pay for that and not waste your time with things you obviously don't enjoy.

 

Yep, the guy said it. So go and enjoy your Panda-land.

[Shadysketchy]

Yep, the guy said it. So go and enjoy your Panda-land.

 

That's becoming a more viable option, everyday

 

I mean honestly, as long as I don't make a Pandaren myself, I probably won't see that many, except during the brief time it'll take to level up in the continent of Pandaria

 

Anyway, wouldn't you rather SWTOR keep a lot of subscribers, and be a successful MMO, than just have everyone quit, and go play WoW, leaving SWTOR without enough subscribers to keep it afloat without going free to play?

[RycheMykola]

SWTOR's graphics are amazing for an MMO. You don't design an MMO to where people need to by a new $2k rig to be able to play. WOW by far has the worst graphics of an MMO I have ever seen.

 

WOW is so easy, you can smash the palm of your hand on your keyboard and play sufficient.

 

Running the same 2-3 instances for 12 months is not fun either, which were simply reskinned from Vanilla content.

 

WOW is so easy, you practically get free epics just from logging in.

[Kalfear]

SWTOR's graphics are amazing for an MMO. You don't design an MMO to where people need to by a new $2k rig to be able to play. WOW by far has the worst graphics of an MMO I have ever seen.

 

WOW is so easy, you can smash the palm of your hand on your keyboard and play sufficient.

 

Running the same 2-3 instances for 12 months is not fun either, which were simply reskinned from Vanilla content.

 

WOW is so easy, you practically get free epics just from logging in.

 

Lusten, I think Bioware did above expectation oin the graphics front for the ultra low end machines they were shooting for.

 

Make no mistake, they get a A+ in the graphics area because they announced very early on they were going for market acceptence and thus cwere not going after the high end machine market.

 

Having said that, THEY ARE NOT AMAZING

 

Rift on full setting was amazing

EQ2 (when it released) on higher settings was amazing

 

SW:TOR is above average. Which is a win because I personally didnt expect better then Average after they made that statement.

 

PS: While yes TOR is better and tougher then WOW (the endless QQing of WOW players dieing tell us that one by itself), TOR is only BARELY TOUGHER and on the grand scale of thing IS "so easy, you practically get free epics just from logging in"

 

I made it to 47 in beta and only 3 times in the entire trip did I feel challenged.

Which granted is 3 more times then you encounter in WOW

but still NOTHING to brag about

 

TOR is stupidly, mindlessly easy to play and master and will suffer long term negative effects (once people have done their storylines and maxed out) because of it.

 

8 storylines should have taken (at the earliest for me) 16 months (2 months a character which is still stupidly fast btw).

 

I now figure 6-8 months tops to max out all 8 completely

And it would be even faster if I didnt promise myself to do all the content this time around, regardless if its greyed out (which it will be. Im not even off Nar Shaddaa with my Sage and already 3 levels OVER Tatooines suggested level range)

 

So lets not claim this is some great stratagy

 

WOW coul dbe mastered by untrained chimps

TOR can be mastered by untrained Chimps who at least were diapers

 

Genre is still a LONG WAYS OFF from the time to max and challenge per combat it should be at for viable long term interest and dedication.

 

If this wasnt named Star Wars, I dare say that opening 1.5 million subs would already be at 750,000 subs and dropping fast as people maxed out and as people said they were not going to accept so called RP servers with no naming or general chat moderation.

 

Dont get me wrong, I love TOR, I love the story, I love the interaction in cut screens and the voice overs

 

But Bioware left the door wide open for anyone that wants to DO IT CORRECTLY still.

[MaggotForever]

Well it is the OLD republic.

[Stopakilla]

I hate to say it, but i agree with the OP, i wish i didnt but....

[Shadysketchy]

I hate to say it, but i agree with the OP, i wish i didnt but....

 

Trust me, I wish I didn't feel this way, too

[Skerry]

The odd thing is, and this was alluded to by one of the posters; but actually got me thinking and is very correct.

 

 

This game DID take what works from MMO's. The stuff it currently has, is based on what works or has worked in every MMO.

 

They then did a couple of new things, or twists on existing things.

 

What they DID NOT take, was specific things that 1 or a couple of MMOs have. Those features are wrongfully being dubbed NORMAL by today's mmo standards, which they are not. Those features you need to give them time to see if they put them in and how.

 

Shady's list is using the art of convolution to create a confused argument.

 

Some of what he lists is features - which is what I just mentioned above.

 

Other things he mentions are performance things: THESE are things every MMO has to deal with at release and will have to deal with at release due to the logistics of the large audience. It is pretty simple to understand that and why it can be a problem; you just have to try. So, while true they exist - they are not gamebreaking (yet).

 

And still other things he mentions are bugs; which will get squashed eventually. THe problem with these is the ever ongoing problem of what a player or playergroup thinks is priority quite often is not what devs or producers think is priority.

 

And lastly, he throws in some personal opinions; which you can't really argue with as opinions are just that.

 

 

So; while there is close to 100 pages dedicated to this guy as it is (and I know I just added more) try to sort out what he is complaining about, because trying to argue the entire list as one subject really just feeds him and his agenda.