I Want To Like TOR, But It Just Feels Old

[Lord_Indomitus]

TL;DR, I think TOR feels old, what do you think?

With a few of your comments, I agree, but some are exaggeration or plain being unfair imo.

e.g. about Qs... you say Bliz has evolved, Bioware not. I mean, you practically answer to yourself. It's too soon, Bioware will "evolve" too.

 

About graphics... the game looks beautiful, I can tell you that much. Still, not everyone may be able to realize that. Let me explain, If someone compares SWTOR and WoW at low/medium settings, the difference is not big. If you compare at max setting (like 2560x1600, 4xAA, max in game settings) the difference IS HUGE. That doesn't mean that graphics are next gen, still they are pretty damn good, especially for an MMO. What I would like to see in the future is ambient occlusion support and I'll be set.

 

Finally, as I've said above, with some of your comments I agree with, still some are not that well thought. I mean, why is a LFG tool needed so early in the game? We have a new MMO and it would be nice to see a community being built, guilds founded, etc. A LFG tool would take things to a different direction. Just because LFG tool was a good thing for WoW when it was implemented, that doesn't make it good for swtor right now.

[Erenax]

The same WoW that paid for itself many times over. The same old WoW that can bleed every last sub, go F2P and still laugh all the way to the bank... I'm willing to bet it'll be around. I only wish I could be so sure about SWTOR, a 2011 game launching with incomplete game mechanics borrowed from 2006 WoW. If in addition to their excellent solo game they manage to get the MMO part right (and I sure hope they do), it has a shot. If they don't, it's F2P with an item shop in a year.

 

The whole "incomplete game mechanics" argument is based on opinion. I think it could use a few UI customization options and better GTN support, but I haven't felt the need for add-ons, a LFG tool, or many of the other things that the OP thinks the game needs. That said, the game's been out for THREE DAYS. Given Bioware's track record, I think they deserve a little slack.

[Kaercha]

So honestly, I really do want to like this game. And I do think it has some positive features, including Star Wars; I've always like the Star Wars movies. Unfortunately, TOR just feels really old. Even compared to World of Warcraft, which actually is very old (over 7 years now), this feels elderly.

 

The following are some things that make TOR feel old:

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others; it's safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that's passable in 2011

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

 

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again; TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

 

- No Macros

 

- No mouseover casting

 

- No addon support

 

- No Dual Spec

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game's release build)

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW's Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

 

- More — I will expand on this as more things pop into my mind, these are the ones currently at the forefront of my thought process

 

Anyway, do you guys feel the same way? Maybe you don't see the logic in some of my points (but you will once you get to level 40+), but you've probably noticed the game feels old. I'm worried that this feeling will plague the launch, and the early days of the game. This will both turn away new players, and create a jaded community; problems that get worse and worse as time goes on. Hopefully the game can be improved enough though, I do like it.

 

TL;DR, I think TOR feels old, what do you think?

 

 

 

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

 

I hate this one. In my opinion, and in the opinion of the majority of testers/surveyed participants, LFG tool is terrible because of the side effects attached to that convenience.

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

 

UI Customization and API are coming. Give it time, man. Give it time.

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others; it's safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that's passable in 2011

 

COMPANION (not pets) AI has seemed pretty fine to me. In cases where I try to "Skyrim" my way over some mountains, they might bug out, but that's a difficult challenge to take.

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

Again, not sure if serious. MMO's are already pretty CPU/GPU heavy without adding complication to it. When you consider metrics of stability and performance across multiple strength gaming platforms, this game does very well. Graphics much stronger wouldn't be playable on lower end gaming PC's. Try playing on max settings, (HINT: "Ultra" doesn't turn all the sliders as high as they will go). Because of the client/server relationship, and the need to maintain a certain level of data integrity, (read: inability to handle certain things client side for security/exploitation reasons). In short, the graphics are about as good as they can be without cutting into their demographic.

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

On this one, I kind of understand ya. I'd like to have some cycles.

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

 

Been said before, but yeah. They didn't want to include swimming. Too much headache just to make people slow down in ditches.

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

This is mainly because it took 15 hours /played to hit max level this xpac, then there was NO reason to log on outside of scheduled raids/ranked pvp. And even then, during those 15 hours, lots of queues and server instability were paramount. Contrary to belief, these companies use similar hardware. Server caps are similar. It's not like they have the emachines and Blizz has the dells, I promise.

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

Yeah, I'd like an option to choose a voice, and a body type between 2 (Scrawny) and 3 (beefcake)

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

 

That's supposed to happen? I think leveling in wow/rift needs to be nerfed, honestly. Contrary to blizzard philosophy, the game doesn't actually start at max level. It starts at 1.

 

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again; TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

 

I feel ya on this one, too. But, that's what content patches are for.

 

- No Macros

 

Addressed, already incoming.

 

- No mouseover casting

 

Addressed, already incoming.

 

- No addon support

 

Addressed, already incoming.

 

- No Dual Spec

 

This is up for debate, they said they would like to implement it, but that they are more focused on making sure that all current specs can do what they want (PVE, PVP, soloing), thus alleviating the need for it in the first place. Again, weighing the convenience of the feature against the side effects.

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game's release build)

 

Addressed and fixed before launch. How awesome was that

 

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy.

 

WoW doesn't have story, so it relies on gimicky quest mechanics to make the experience fun. This game takes the opposite approach. But rest assured, I ... err... I mean you can have all the rail shooting fly by the clicking reticle missions you want once you get your ship.

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

 

Voice actors are expensive. Good ones even more so. Still, I wouldn't mind the occasional celebrity cameo, once the game is more established.

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

See Above.

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

 

What else could it be? You could ride the fence and remain gray, which some characters are doing. You don't have to take it to a cartoon-ish level. RP some.

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea.

 

When you finally make it to level 14 (should take all of 8 hours /played) you get the SWTOR equivalent of the lv 40 mount. When you hit 25, you get the "epic" ground mount. This is very similar to the way wow does it. Except BW lets you use your "normal" mount indoors.

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

People will use conversion? No one types, 5000 gold for example, in WoW. They say 5k. In TOR, it will be 5M or something like that. This seems an odd thing to gripe about.

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

More specific please?

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW's Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

 

Again, when you level some more, you'll get some orange gear. You can change out the mods/slots in it to keep it up to level with you. Not EVERY piece of gear is mod-able, true, but the feature is there.

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

 

Shouldn't have clicked "random" before you started playing. But really, yeah, I would like to recustomize my character now and again.

 

 

 

 

 

Just my thoughts on the aforementioned points. If these have been addressed, I apologize, I only read the first tennish pages before I couldn't contain myself anymore.

[Vladone]

Completely agree with the OP.

 

However I actually like TOR - you can't deny that it's old though, and that post 30 you get hit with a truckload of bugs.

 

I've experienced more bugs / design decision flaws in this past week than I EVER did during my 2 1/2 months in beta:

 

* Taris memory leak

* Guild tab bugging

* Guild chat bugged - can't see or type in guild chat or other chats

* Ability and combat non-responsiveness: clicking abilities and watching them do nothing

* Resolve working incorrectly - or not working at all

* No diminishing returns on CC

* Hit boxes screwing up

* Companion bugs galore: AI, Pathing, AOE's constantly turning on over and over again, or simply not spawning at all after you get off your bike or after a cut scene

* Old completed quests sending you reward emails over and over again - some even from 20 levels ago

* Segregated questing areas making Open World PvP almost non-existent

* No rewards for open world pvp

* No brackets in WZ pvp

* Raid frames in WZs bugged as all hell

* LOS issues galore: can't heal a friendly with a waist level cargo crate in between you, as you 'cannot see target'

* Repetitive, uncreative mission system: kill 25 of this, kill 135 of that (yes there are kill 135 bonus missions)

 

I could go on and on

 

I like TOR and will sub to it for a while - but it is really out dated no doubt.

 

* Taris memory leak - FIXED and Been said 50 billion f'ing times.

 

* Guild tab bugging - Well don't know what kind so I can't say it has not happened in other games.

* Guild chat bugged - can't see or type in guild chat or other chats -- Happened in the "GOD GAME" WoW all the time, there was a time when I had daily problems with chat.

 

* Ability and combat non-responsiveness: clicking abilities and watching them do nothing - That means the previous ability didn't finish casting or the animation for the previous ability did not finish so the animation for the current ability u used might not have shown(very small bug, I used to think that they did nothing but they acutally do, even if they do not show the animation veeeery rarely)

 

* Resolve working incorrectly - or not working at all --- Lots of skills in MMOs sometimes behave badly for some people, still happens in the "GOD GAME" WoW.

* No diminishing returns on CC -- Diminishing Returns are NOT a must if the game was not designed that way, it's like saying, channel x in chat MUST be this Color in EVERY game.

* Hit boxes screwing up--- in MMOs that have been around for YEARS and YEARS you find invisible mobs that hit you out of nowhere or mobs that are far away and you can not melee them, though they can melee you.

 

* Companion bugs galore: AI, Pathing, AOE's constantly turning on over and over again, or simply not spawning at all after you get off your bike or after a cut scene --- Never happened to me, probably a bug that will be resolved in the FIRST FEW WEEKS after the Game's release.

 

* Old completed quests sending you reward emails over and over again - some even from 20 levels ago ---- First of all...... why complain? Second..... make a ticket so they know about it and it will be fixed for sure in due time, like I said before the Game JUST came out and I for one have not had this problem.

 

* Segregated questing areas making Open World PvP almost non-existent ----- Partially Agree but keep in mind that not many people are into PVP and not many people have leveled to the stage where they quest in contested areas. In time when the avg lvl of characters will be higher there will be more world pvp.

* No rewards for open world pvp ---- AGREE, this sucks, I wish WoW had this too....

* No brackets in WZ pvp ---- PvP has been going on for a few Days, Give it time to develop, I bet you dont even have the Full Epic PVP set.

* Raid frames in WZs bugged as all hell ---- I have a Sage Character and I got to say, I had no problems throwing heals around AT ALL.

* LOS issues galore: can't heal a friendly with a waist level cargo crate in between you, as you 'cannot see target' - Nope, never happened to me, I had no problems healing companions that were behind small crates. When the crate is high and you can barely see what's going on behind it, yes you can't heal, but in other cases I never had an issue.

 

* Repetitive, uncreative mission system: kill 25 of this, kill 135 of that (yes there are kill 135 bonus missions) --- Those bonus missions are not meant to be grinded out.... you complete them while doing other missions like busting someone out of a prison or searching for cures for diseases, saving some children, searching for missing convoys, etc etc...

 

I could go on and on --- So could I.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Vladone

[Mamono]

you sound like a spoiled kid just like the op, maybe you should get together and make a game and then we can sit on your forums and tell you where you went wrong and you need more....

 

It is not about being spoild, it is about expectations and that this game is coming out more or less inn 2012 and what it could have been.

Again, if you buy a new car today, you expect to have at least a few "standard" equipments like airbags, abs, power steering, windows that can be opend and closed, a door that can be locked.

This game is just like a old car. It works but has no standard equipment. Oh, you will probably get it later, but then you wonder, what the heck have they done up until now with that huge founding?

 

Yada yada yada, other games been out longer yada yada yada.

The longe other games has been out, the more this game should have learned from the other games. A propper investigation of what people dont want and what people do like, what other games tryed but failed badly at and what thee games made corect.

BioWare have ignored so much that you wonder if they even have checked out other MMOs properly.

There are missing things in this game that is so basic to other games like a /roll system or grace period on gear bought or even just. There is a ton of things that you just go /faceslap, why is that not in the game? ‘

 

There is a post here somewhere, a proper “what we wish to see in the game” with no bad words or discussions etc, but I can’t seem to find it. (need to search to find it. It was a really nice post).

There is a ton of stuff named in that post where you go “no ****, you’re kidding me”.

1 example I remember is recipes. If you learn 1 recipe, and get the same recipe later, there is no indicator that you have learned that recipe already.

And on top of that you can actually read that recipe even if you know it.

 

Yes the game is just a few days old, but a lot of things are missing that a game from 2012 (yes I see this as a 2012 game) should have (if they did a proper research).

Even if this is a new game you expect it to have a minimum standard level of quality because of the evolution of the MMO gender.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Mamono

[Kaercha]

It is not about being spoild, it is about expectations and that this game is coming out more or less inn 2012 and what it could have been.

Again, if you buy a new car today, you expect to have at least a few "standard" equipments like airbags, abs, power steering, windows that can be opend and closed, a door that can be locked.

This game is just like a old car. It works but has no standard equipment. Oh, you will probably get it later, but then you wonder, what the heck have they done up until now with that huge founding?

 

Yada yada yada, other games been out longer yada yada yada.

The longe other games has been out, the more this game should have learned from the other games. A propper investigation of what people dont want and what people do like, what other games tryed but failed badly at and what thee games made corect.

BioWare have ignored so much that you wonder if they even have checked out other MMOs properly.

There are missing things in this game that is so basic to other games like a /roll system or grace period on gear bought or even just. There is a ton of things that you just go /faceslap, why is that not in the game? ‘

 

There is a post here somewhere, a proper “what we wish to see in the game” with no bad words or discussions etc, but I can’t seem to find it. (need to search to find it. It was a really nice post).

There is a ton of stuff named in that post where you go “no ****, you’re kidding me”.

1 example I remember is recipes. If you learn 1 recipe, and get the same recipe later, there is no indicator that you have learned that recipe already.

And on top of that you can actually read that recipe even if you know it.

 

Yes the game is just a few days old, but a lot of things are missing that a game from 2012 (yes I see this as a 2012 game) should have (if they did a proper research).

Even if this is a new game you expect it to have a minimum standard level of quality because of the evolution of the MMO gender.

 

 

For every convenience, you have side effects. It was decided that the convenience of these "WoW" features, that your lot seems to think now defines the genre, did not outweigh the negative impact of their side effects. If you would like to have these features added to the game, then make a case for it, but don't hide behind "Well, WoW had it, so it has to be in a modern MMO" or such similar drivel.

 

If WoW were so excellent, then no other MMO would need be made, because we would all have the perfect game to play. This is not the case, or we'd all by playing WoW right now, instead of trying to fight you lot off of turning another game into WoW.

 

/rant.

[Darth_Eclipses]

* Taris memory leak - FIXED and Been said 50 billion f'ing times.

 

* Guild tab bugging - Well don't know what kind so I can't say it has not happened in other games.

* Guild chat bugged - can't see or type in guild chat or other chats -- Happened in the "GOD GAME" WoW all the time, there was a time when I had daily problems with chat.

 

* Ability and combat non-responsiveness: clicking abilities and watching them do nothing - That means the previous ability didn't finish casting or the animation for the previous ability did not finish so the animation for the current ability u used might not have shown(very small bug, I used to think that they did nothing but they acutally do, even if they do not show the animation veeeery rarely)

 

* Resolve working incorrectly - or not working at all --- Lots of skills in MMOs sometimes behave badly for some people, still happens in the "GOD GAME" WoW.

* No diminishing returns on CC -- Diminishing Returns are NOT a must if the game was not designed that way, it's like saying, channel x in chat MUST be this Color in EVERY game.

* Hit boxes screwing up--- in MMOs that have been around for YEARS and YEARS you find invisible mobs that hit you out of nowhere or mobs that are far away and you can not melee them, though they can melee you.

 

* Companion bugs galore: AI, Pathing, AOE's constantly turning on over and over again, or simply not spawning at all after you get off your bike or after a cut scene --- Never happened to me, probably a bug that will be resolved in the FIRST FEW WEEKS after the Game's release.

 

* Old completed quests sending you reward emails over and over again - some even from 20 levels ago ---- First of all...... why complain? Second..... make a ticket so they know about it and it will be fixed for sure in due time, like I said before the Game JUST came out and I for one have not had this problem.

 

* Segregated questing areas making Open World PvP almost non-existent ----- Partially Agree but keep in mind that not many people are into PVP and not many people have leveled to the stage where they quest in contested areas. In time when the avg lvl of characters will be higher there will be more world pvp.

* No rewards for open world pvp ---- AGREE, this sucks, I wish WoW had this too....

* No brackets in WZ pvp ---- PvP has been going on for a few Days, Give it time to develop, I bet you dont even have the Full Epic PVP set.

* Raid frames in WZs bugged as all hell ---- I have a Sage Character and I got to say, I had no problems throwing heals around AT ALL.

* LOS issues galore: can't heal a friendly with a waist level cargo crate in between you, as you 'cannot see target' - Nope, never happened to me, I had no problems healing companions that were behind small crates. When the crate is high and you can barely see what's going on behind it, yes you can't heal, but in other cases I never had an issue.

 

* Repetitive, uncreative mission system: kill 25 of this, kill 135 of that (yes there are kill 135 bonus missions) --- Those bonus missions are not meant to be grinded out.... you complete them while doing other missions like busting someone out of a prison or searching for cures for diseases, saving some children, searching for missing convoys, etc etc...

 

I could go on and on --- So could I.

 

Listen dude, pointing out specific bugs and saying 'so and so game' had it IS NOT a defense. Are you honestly trying to say it's ok for a 2012 game to have the very same bugs and design flaws that a game had in 2004? Listen to yourself.

 

Furthermore, I said I like TOR and was pointing our just a FEW of the bugs I have experienced. I would go point for point for you but I don't really care to.

 

Pointing to OLD MMO's and saying they have the very same flaws as TOR - is proving the point of this thread, no?

Edited December 23, 2011 by Darth_Eclipses

[iMate]

TOR lacks what WoW had .... smooth gameplay.... when wow released it didn't have anything but quests.. a few dungeons and a raid.... but it had flawless, smooth and just plain amazing gameplay... Yea it had server issues... but that didn't matter beacause the actual gameplay was so nicely done people really didn't care....

 

then you have bioware who spends upwards of 300 million and doesn't even have a perfect feel to the game.. Fanboys will be fanboys but if you run both these games side by side... its a huge difference.. bioware should have developed there game with this in mind. its 2011 for god sakes ..... blizzard developed there game over 10 years ago.. no accuse for having less then perfect gameplay.. this game has everything it needs to be perfect.. they just left that small but extremely important feature out which really baffles me...

 

The gameplay must be perfect... then we can do the other stuff.... i have cut scenes where my guy is doing the most award stuff..

 

shooting people with no gun... no lips.... dramatic scenes have their music mess up...

 

you also have this empty world of starwars.......... uh last time i checked fight scenes in star wars were massive............. i mean massive..... what does bioware give us... 8v8??? how many 8v8 fights have you scene in the movies......

Edited December 23, 2011 by iMate

[Vladone]

Listen dude, pointing out specific bugs and saying 'so and so game' had it IS NOT a defense. Are you honestly trying to say it's ok for a 2012 game to have the very same bugs and design flaws that a game had in 2004? Listen to yourself.

 

Furthermore, I said I like TOR and was pointing our just a FEW of the bugs I have experienced. I would go point for point for you but I don't really care to.

 

Pointing to OLD MMO's and saying they have the very same flaws as TOR - is proving the point of this thread, no?

 

Clearly you have no clue as to the cause of these problems.... these "horrible" bugs that the game has are very tiny minor mini small code errors that happen on certain occasions, in ALL GAMES MMOs, Normal Multiplayer or Single Player Games, that is why ALL games in the history of Gaming have patches, these small impossible to predict code conflicts HAPPEN, just because they do... That is why Games get patched and worked on after launch, especially MMOs. On another note, you were not talking about bugs only.... So now I have to ask you why are you contradicting yourself when you are saying that some things that have been implemented in old MMOs HAVE to be implemented in NEW MMOs? Anyway, when you contradict yourself like that... there's no real point in continuing coz soon this conversation will end up in a post from you containing((( something, something, your mom, something something)) so in trying to avoid that rage post you will make... have a nice day.

 

Oh and.... thanks for taking 3 points I made about what you said, twist them around and make them almost seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Vladone

[Skullkids]

It has more than WoW did at launch so I have high hopes.

[Boesmith]

It has more than WoW did at launch so I have high hopes.

 

But dude, that was 2004, and when MMO's were new and exciting. This is 2011 brother, and this game isn't on vanilla wow's level.

[SelinaK]

Adding to my previous post:

 

it looks like they rushed it out and copied warcrap a bit too much in the process really I really hope they refine the amount of powers and windows down so that there isn't so much spamjunk covering your view in the future more like Mass Effect. or at least like City of Villains which did all that stuff way better and more compactly (managing with just one bar of 3 in the corner I remember) and just cut down on the RIDICULOUS amount of rainbow-coloured icons and powers and make it a bit more about action.

 

I'm not saying totally totally jumpy fighty like DC online, sure (though that's a lot of fun) but it really does need to be a bit less ridiculous so it's not so much like warcrap button-mashing and more actual fun running around fighting to live. Not a mass of numberspam so much that no one can see or care what's going on that isn't numbers like I've seen in some videos of the people playing at high level, ick. It's like the game is schizophrenic between being an actual massive multiplayer roleplaying game or a numberspam mash where the characters could be replaced with different colour cartoony blobs like warcrap...

 

 

Not totally sure why I'm bumping this a lot of the stuff in this thread is starting to get unconstructive, but as a place ot chuck list of complaints I guess it's ok, maybe a new thread with less aggressive title would be better though...

Edited December 23, 2011 by SelinaK

[Vladone]

TOR lacks what WoW had .... smooth gameplay.... when wow released it didn't have anything but quests.. a few dungeons and a raid.... but it had flawless, smooth and just plain amazing gameplay... Yea it had server issues... but that didn't matter beacause the actual gameplay was so nicely done people really didn't care....

 

then you have bioware who spends upwards of 300 million and doesn't even have a perfect feel to the game.. Fanboys will be fanboys but if you run both these games side by side... its a huge difference.. bioware should have developed there game with this in mind. its 2011 for god sakes ..... blizzard developed there game over 10 years ago.. no accuse for having less then perfect gameplay.. this game has everything it needs to be perfect.. they just left that small but extremely important feature out which really baffles me...

 

The gameplay must be perfect... then we can do the other stuff.... i have cut scenes where my guy is doing the most award stuff..

 

shooting people with no gun... no lips.... dramatic scenes have their music mess up...

 

you also have this empty world of starwars.......... uh last time i checked fight scenes in star wars were massive............. i mean massive..... what does bioware give us... 8v8??? how many 8v8 fights have you scene in the movies......

 

And how many 10000 Vs 10000 fights have you seen in games?

[JWuorinen]

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

 

As stated, most of us don't want this immersion breaking "gogogo" thingie here.

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

 

Would like to scale it down a bit. Otherwise, opinions. Works for me. Looks nice, sci-fish and clean.

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others; it's safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that's passable in 2011

 

So you would have preferred them to expand beta tests to, say, another year so no minor bugs could get pass?

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

Shile defending WoW this seems so out of place. Model graphics are decent, nothing photorealistic, but they do fine. Besides, I rather have more people playing the game who enjoy gameplay than ten with high-end computers who would still complain about graphics.

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

As someone stated, isn't it great that every planet in the universe has 24h night/day cycle? Isn't it?

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

 

Honestly, who likes swimming in games? OF course, there could be a possibility to it, but personally can't really miss it.

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

Blizzard had their share of queues as well. Besides, yesterday had no queue at all. Quess few "ZOMG THIS ISNT WOW!!1" kiddies left and made room for us who actually see potential in this game.

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

Again, coming from someone who defends WoW. There could be sliders for height and weight. Other than that I usually have gotten pretty good characters created.

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

 

It's too fast by being too curvy. Right....

 

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again; TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

 

So far people are only getting into this game. More content is already on the way while none of us has even seen everything there is already. Why would you have liked the dev time to grow for something you still couldn't see right away when they can release game and add content later on, which you know, is not very uncommon in mmorpgs.

 

- No Macros

 

Agree.

 

- No mouseover casting

 

Agree.

 

- No addon support

 

Not really sure about this, have been doing fine without. They have the tendency of becoming flamers against other players who are not as godly as some.

 

- No Dual Spec

 

Think its' on the way. Meanwhile we who play just have to adjust. Shouldn't matter to likes of you, there's one in WoW (btw, have you gotten your will thru about the trispec already so you'd have no need for choice of any kind, whatsoever?)

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game's release build)

 

Yeah, because Blizzard never release patches with bugs in them so no-one else can do this mistake. Oh, wait...

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

 

This is one I completely disagree! WoW has one of the grindiest quests there is. And as of today whenever there is greater events in quests that you think are going to be at least some challenge they toss you into some sort of steam tank and you just one-button through the big boss in the end! I mean, ***?? Or if not that they give you some immortal companion who pretty much does the dirty work while you stand aside.

 

Never understood that and never will. I choose my character to play with it. I train myself to perform with it as well as I can, if I sometimes get myself killed I can always think what would have I done better and then try again. After few times it usually goes right, thanks to learning to best use my strengths, cc stuff, priorise targets etc. I DO NOT WANT to hop on dragon and just autoroll challenges down to get my quest reward.

 

I also want to search for group of fellow players to conquer group challenges, or try solo. Possibly die also. I do not want some godly NPC join me and do the gaming for me so I can "see all the content". This is what WoW has turned into and I, for one, DO NOT WANT this to be that way and I bet many people agree.

 

There are lots of complaints about this game feeling like SP game and at the same time people want to steamroll solo through everything. Doesn't make sense. Grouping up for stuff is the best thing any adventure game can offer.

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

 

Yeah, because they did it they should have done it even better. Voice acting is good. I bet you are the kinda people who, when given a sack of gold, would moan you don't have the strength to carry it and would demand a giver to point a carrier also.

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

Haven't come up with this so far, then again, there is loads of dialoque so no wonder. I bet you never use the same phrase irl twice?

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

 

Once again, they give you whole new level in which to progress your character and you moan "they should have done it better". As you said, the system worked well before but now that it's in non-WoW mmo it is suddenly so unimpressive. If it was introduced into WoW I bet you would have praised it with tears pouring from your eyes.

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

 

Yeah, because everyone needs and wants everything handed on them on a silver plate. Why should anyone need to make effort to achieve anything? In a game? Please noo!!

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

Sorry, so far seen no gold so can't really argue here.. But as for the inflation, it's a great thing that WoW is not affected by such, right?

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

How long would you have liked for them to polish it out then before release? Just because some games have had time to polish out their codes and stuff doesn't mean every other game can just copy-paste it right from there. Issues do, and will, rise it is more of a matter how fast they fix them. Since no test group can always spot everything. And when new content is released there will be problems too. Heard about WoW's LFR loot problems? Using your logic, Blizzard sucks for releasing such bad content update.

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW's Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

 

Yeah, visual tab would be nice. WoW's transmog nonsense would NOT be, though.

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

 

Perhaps to come. But surely, none of the most urgent things to add in launch. Once again, stuff like these take time to develop, they cannot copy-paste code from another games. And all the neat little stuff they should have added in launch would have made dev time grow with, say, year or two. Depending on how much stuff would be needed to apply and properly tested.

 

- More — I will expand on this as more things pop into my mind, these are the ones currently at the forefront of my thought process

 

Please do. I bet they don't like you on WoW forums either for being such a fanboy?

 

Anyway, do you guys feel the same way? Maybe you don't see the logic in some of my points (but you will once you get to level 40+), but you've probably noticed the game feels old.

 

Yeah, it takes time for the rest of us to reach your height of understanding.

[Waypoc]

So honestly, I really do want to like this game. And I do think it has some positive features, including Star Wars; I've always like the Star Wars movies. Unfortunately, TOR just feels really old. Even compared to World of Warcraft, which actually is very old (over 7 years now), this feels elderly.

 

The following are some things that make TOR feel old:

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others; it's safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that's passable in 2011

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

 

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again; TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

 

- No Macros

 

- No mouseover casting

 

- No addon support

 

- No Dual Spec

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game's release build)

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW's Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

 

- More — I will expand on this as more things pop into my mind, these are the ones currently at the forefront of my thought process

 

Anyway, do you guys feel the same way? Maybe you don't see the logic in some of my points (but you will once you get to level 40+), but you've probably noticed the game feels old. I'm worried that this feeling will plague the launch, and the early days of the game. This will both turn away new players, and create a jaded community; problems that get worse and worse as time goes on. Hopefully the game can be improved enough though, I do like it.

 

TL;DR, I think TOR feels old, what do you think?

 

Excellent post!

 

I've been saying most of this from beta and some of this before just based on what we've read. I'm glad there are others that aren't blinded by fanboism to know what's subpar at best.

 

And for those that protest, just becuase bw said it was always going to be a theme park game doesn't make it better or right.

[Waypoc]

You are gonna get flamed to **** for this post. But... It is true. Sadly.

 

I agree this is a rough crowd. Very immature.

[Mamono]

For every convenience, you have side effects. It was decided that the convenience of these "WoW" features, that your lot seems to think now defines the genre, did not outweigh the negative impact of their side effects. If you would like to have these features added to the game, then make a case for it, but don't hide behind "Well, WoW had it, so it has to be in a modern MMO" or such similar drivel.

 

If WoW were so excellent, then no other MMO would need be made, because we would all have the perfect game to play. This is not the case, or we'd all by playing WoW right now, instead of trying to fight you lot off of turning another game into WoW.

 

/rant.

 

Who the heck are talking about WoW? Do you see me write down anywhere that "WoW has it so this game must have it"?

 

The problem is that fanboyz are so stubbern that no idea, no matter what it is, even if it to improve the game or remove a bug, not matter, that idea is BAD.

You can not improve the game of Star Wars. ALL ideas is being flamed. EVERY critisism is being FLAMED.

Just like you. You automaticly attack me with "dont say wow has it" etc etc etc when I have not done so.

I say we should have a requirement and expectation of a new game that fits the year it comes out.

[NatetheRipper]

reallllly? go back to wow then youll save someone from queing. last time i checked it took Bliz each expansion to add what you want in an first release. BW said they will be adding in stuff if you cant wait im sure bliz will take your money since they are loosing customers to this game and others LOLLLLZ

[Cadiva]

You can not improve the game of Star Wars. ALL ideas is being flamed. EVERY critisism is being FLAMED.

 

Actually there's plenty of ways of saying this game could be improved and providing examples of those improvements. What pisses most people off is when someone says - well WoW did this so every other MMO ever made in the history of the universe should also do it.

 

Like the feel of WoW, go play it and stop trying to turn every other game into a differently skinned version of it.

 

I miss the early MMO days where every game was utterly different, even the ones set in a similar fantasy frame were different. UO was nothing like EQ, EQ was nothing like DAoC, none of them were like Anarchy Online, Asheron's Call was different. Yes they all had the same basic MMO staples - a User Interface, area maps which showed you where you were, quests, levelling, rewards systems - but they all played quite differently and had different focus.

 

Is SW:tOR perfect, not by a long shot, they need to improve the UI without any shadow of doubt and they've already said they're working on it. That's a legitimate complaint which most people would agree with, even those of us like myself who don't have a real issue with the UI as it stands.

Most of the other suggestions are peoples' opinions on what "should" be included (based on what they have in WoW) and nothing more.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Cadiva

[Ghaiana]

I'm glad that it fits in the MMORPG genre. If it feels old, there are plenty other games on the market that are different.

[Cameirus]

As stated, most of us don't want this immersion breaking "gogogo" thingie here.

 

Figures to back that up please.

 

My opinion is that most players want it, virtually eveyrone I speak to in game wants one.

[Nightrode]

I'm not sure what to make of the OP. He's like trolling and not trolling at the same time.

 

Some of his concerns are legitament and some are iffy while some are just plain dumb. Most of it are things that will be fixed in time or just unecessary or opinionated.

[Darkeus]

I'm not sure what to make of the OP. He's like trolling and not trolling at the same time.

 

Some of his concerns are legitament and some are iffy while some are just plain dumb. Most of it are things that will be fixed in time or just unecessary or opinionated.

 

You should see some of his post in other threads. I lean towards troll.

[Zantoba]

WoW fanboi is Wow fanboi.

 

Leave then, and get a job.

[Amaradaichi]

500,000 credits = 5,000 Gold

 

Hardly the economy crusher.

 

How did you determined the value?