what are the 3 changes you need to see in the Merc class?

[Molltor]

So when you make a suggestion we should all bow down. When I make a suggestion it's utter crap. I see.

 

BTW, the dig wasn't veiled at all; I was as explicit as I could be.

 

You really do read things that are not there don't you?

 

Unless you can quote where I've said your suggestions are crap and that mine are the be all and end all l, then all your doing here is making yourself look moronic.

 

As for the dig, I'm sure if you wanted to you could've been more explicit, though admittedly, you need to work on the quality of your insults. But however fun this little exchange has been it's not really offering contribution to the discussion so I won't be responding to you again unless it's topic related. Opinions differ, I accept that, do you?

[AMightyKnight]

I'm just saying ammo management shouldn't be in the first questions mostly cause it is a very hard subject when you get into the fact that we are the only class that actually has a different energy system on each faction since ammo isn't the same as heat when it gets down to it. I'm kinda thinking maybe getting a little more time put into it wouldn't hurt especially cause we have so many problems that our questions can't be wasted on something like this " heat/ammo is the hardest energy management system due to costs and needs to be revised could you somehow lessen the cost of certain abilities or make it so the regen/dissipation rate is increased?" and them answering with "We have found this to be a problem in the past and have already put into effect ways to increase it. We will look into it and try to make it work better in the future. We will try to be quick but due to other classes we will most likely not get it done for -insert long time frame-". I don't think we can afford to use a question then get a yes and no answer we will need to find somehow to not get a answer like that.

Ammo management is our most important issue and it has to be addressed, especially because its far from certain that the devs even realize what they have done to us with the change to the set bonus.

If they just answer "yes we know, working on it" i'm happy. But I doubt it. It will be something like “working as intended, you class is fine, stop bothering us”.

Anyways, I’m sure odawgg will formulate a broad question about the issue, including overall lack of dps like the sniper rep did.

BTW, apart from graphics and the missing numerical display on the Commando, there is no difference between heat and energy cells.

[Ogi-Wan-BG]

1. Some abilities to allow us to move and shoot - maybe as a real Bounty hunter/Mercenary etc

2. Better defensive cool-downs

3. Spammable slow skill or with lesser cool-down(something like SW/SI)

[windogie]

Ammo management is our most important issue and it has to be addressed, especially because its far from certain that the devs even realize what they have done to us with the change to the set bonus.

If they just answer "yes we know, working on it" i'm happy. But I doubt it. It will be something like “working as intended, you class is fine, stop bothering us”.

Anyways, I’m sure odawgg will formulate a broad question about the issue, including overall lack of dps like the sniper rep did.

BTW, apart from graphics and the missing numerical display on the Commando, there is no difference between heat and energy cells.

 

Think the coding is different for heat/ammo? Cause I thought it was. Honestly don't know but thought the coding was different or something cause bioware altered ammo in 2.0 and didn't change heat.

[AMightyKnight]

Think the coding is different for heat/ammo? Cause I thought it was. Honestly don't know but thought the coding was different or something cause bioware altered ammo in 2.0 and didn't change heat.

They adjusted energy to mirror heat in 2.0. Before they were some noticable differences, Mercs were better off than Commandos. Graphics are still different and energy still isnt displayed as percentage reading, but that is pretty much it.

[windogie]

They adjusted energy to mirror heat in 2.0. Before they were some noticable differences, Mercs were better off than Commandos. Graphics are still different and energy still isnt displayed as percentage reading, but that is pretty much it.

 

Oh that makes sense thanks for answering that. Only real experience I've had with ammo is my vanguard tank and didnt really bother with ammo with him since never had a problem with it. Would prolly of known that if I had made a commando. Still felt weird cause I went straight from merc to vanguard. I actually only noticed a slight difference at 2.0 on him and didn't really care was more into getting the 5% heal from shoulder cannon.

[MVaglin]

Seeing the dev responses to powertechs today, I think maybe we need to rethink our strategy a little and turning their own answers against them a little. They keep hiding behind armor debuffs and executes when the dps disparity is brought up. So I'm thinking an initial question could look something like this:

 

When doing dummy parses we're trailing behind both snipers and marauders a fair bit in both our dps specs. This difference can only grow in ops situations when they gain executes (both) and the armor debuff (marauders). Is it your intention for those two classes to stay ahead? If not what kind of improvements are you thinking about for mercenaries? Our own priorities would be to get the energy reduction on rail shot our old set bonus used to give back, an offensive cooldown for increased on-demand burst and maybe an execute ability of our own (maybe like making Heatseeker Missile autocrit on targets below 30% health).

 

Something like that would be my PVE question. For PVP I'm not sure. It's kinda pointless talking about our interrupt sensibility given the answers sages got.

[idnewton]

I would assume the OP is the merc representitive, in which case this is my suggestion to buff merc heals as was posted in another thread a few minutes ago (before I realized the representitive had a thread up). Let's face it, merc heals is significantly inferior to the other two. My suggestion is similar to what the operatives have:

 

Kolto Coolant

Passive

0/3

While in Combat Support Cylinder, critically healing an

ally with Rapid shots has a (33%/67%/100%) chance to

vent 2 heat.

That, or:

Kolto Coolant

Passive

0/2

While in Combat Support Cylinder, critically healing

an ally with Rapid shots has a (50%/100%) chance

to vent 2 heat.

[Harkess]

What I would like to see in Merc class is a whole new dev team, especially class balancing team.

 

Thanks

[Ansalem]

geez after seeing the BW responses to sorcs and VGs today in the Q and A from class reps I'm concerned. I have a feeling no matter what questions are selected that they need to be very clear and well thought out. Though we will probably just end up with the big F.U. middle finger that they gave to those specs today.

 

Can hardly wait for BW to tell us all the l2p and that our perception is wrong that everything is fine with mercs and that we have EN to protect us vs those terrible sentinels...

[Rambeezy]

geez after seeing the BW responses to sorcs and VGs today in the Q and A from class reps I'm concerned. I have a feeling no matter what questions are selected that they need to be very clear and well thought out. Though we will probably just end up with the big F.U. middle finger that they gave to those specs today.

 

Can hardly wait for BW to tell us all the l2p and that our perception is wrong that everything is fine with mercs and that we have EN to protect us vs those terrible sentinels...

 

With the current cost of rapid scan they would be delusional to say we are fine. If anything is changed it has to be rapid scans cost. They can do nothing but they have to do nothing and address rapid scan. Until then, kolto missile spam yarg!!

[DkSharktooth]

I want to know why merc healers have been over nerfed and why they are still the weakest healing class by far making up such a small % of competitive pvpers. When will they get buffs? Edited August 24, 2013 by DkSharktooth

[Transcendent]

• Fix pyro to where it once stood in the game or make it better
  

 

I doubt they realise how broken Pyro as a spec is, I respecced into Pyro to see how badly they had nerfed it (after using the spec as my original Merc spec for ages). Honestly, I couldn't respec back to arsenal fast enough. It has literally no noticable damage output in comparison to any other dps class i've played.

 

My lvl 40 operative kicks out more damage than Pyro mercs at 55 in pvp, and not by a short margin.

 

I can't even play my operative properly yet.

[midianlord]

Why do they just keep nerfing, nerfing, nerfing us, is what I wanna know, and according to the PTS 2.4 patch-notes, another nerf to Pyros inbound.

 

Thermal Detonator as our capstone ability is now officially a joke.

 

Kindly spare me the "but this is just the PTS!!11oneone!" Given their past track record, this will not change. Looking at the PvP forums, there is, as usual, no acknowledgement whatsoever.

 

Were we ever so incredibly O/P that they hate us that much? Did some dev have a bad experience with a PyroMerc that so traumatised him that he must now lash out in atavistic rage at them at every possible opportunity?

 

 

• Range-control: We have essentially none. The Snipinger works as a turret-class because it can control range at least for a while. Really, it's the only properly-designed caster/turret-class in the game, IMHO. What little range-control we do have is nowhere near enough, and cooldowns are too long.
   
  
• Our defensive cooldowns are also much too long.
   
  
• Arsen is the only tree that can actually manage its resources over long fights. And the only tree whose cap-stone ability seems worth training. Just as an aside, hybrid specs just don't seem that viable in this class.
   
  
• Where's our guaranteed AoE auto-crit? I want my smash-kiddie easy-mode, too.
   
  
• Our supposed DoT-focussed spec is a *********** joke compared to real DoT specs, as implied above.
   
  
• We're completely vulnerable to having all our damage/healing shut off, because so much of it is dependent on proc'es from cast abilities with no interrupt-protection (except that one talent, but what about non-healers?).
   
  
• To really max out our abilities, it is almost mandatory to take at least 8, optimally 10, ranks in the Arsen tree. A possible in-practice nerf. What other AC needs this? In other ACs, that's called a hybrid build, for us, it's "talenting properly."
   
  
• Certain talents seem essentially useless: Kolto Jets in the Healer tree, does anyone use it?
  

 

Well, that's eight instead of three.

 

Why are we so hated by this dev-team? And why are they so bloody incompetent when they even look at us, if at all?

 

Signed, a Merc

 

E:

 

Gonna go have a cig' and then play my PyroMerc now. If anyone on Harbinger is doing [FLASHPOINT] The False Emperor (story mode), then could you please queue up for tank, heals, second DPS, thank you.

Edited August 24, 2013 by midianlord

[AMightyKnight]

Nah, you just have a perception problem

[Quazi-moto]

my thoughts:

 

I like the idea of the back jump as an alternate escape as posted previously.

 

If I were to rework the class this is what I would do:

 

1. Remove the stand still requirement for charging abilities. Merc/com are mobile ranged platforms. Make it so. Healing on the run would do wonders for bodyguards, would not change anything in heat management or hps. Damage on the run would do wonders for keeping pressure whether pvp/pve.

 

2. Give electro-net a 15s cd. I don't care if the damage is a pittance, it is just a valuable utility skill and should be high in the rotation for any dps. If this is considered OP, then I would suggest giving force camo the same CD as electro-net is currently.

 

3. in lines with mobility, reduce the hydraulic/hold the line skill cd or increase it's duration.

 

With these three suggestions, we become much better at mobility and change nothing in regards to our heat management or overall dps/hps. Mobility would be a great alternative to tweaking specific skills to do more damage or use less heat.

[midianlord]

Why, in the name of every God that ever was/is/will be, was ElectroDart/Cryo-Grenade nerfed to one-third of its original range in 1.4 (IIRC)?

 

Seriously, why?

 

It makes no bloody sense :/

[DkSharktooth]

1- kolto shell costs no heat can be applied to 1-4 targets

2- revert nerf to super charged gas or reduce heat cost of abilities during it's duration and interrupt immunity for first 4 seconds

3- any improvements at all that would fix the ultra harsh nerfs this healing class received.

Edited August 25, 2013 by DkSharktooth

[kennethdale]

I've said this in a few other places but based on the discussion here it needs to be said again: take a step back and honestly look at the questions posed by VGs and Sorcs; they were accusatory, demanding, and even referenced something the devs were in the process of trying to fix. While they SHOULD have thicker skin, they are people and clearly don't. Learn from their mistakes. Don't ask for specific things (like lower cds, a jet pack ability, etc) ask why things are as they are. Here is an example:

 

Bad: Resource management is currently extremely tight for all specs and making mistakes has a high penalty. Is there any intention to fix this to allow Merc/mandos to be more competitive?

 

Good: The community has voiced some concerns over resource management for Merc/mandos. Was this intentional?

 

Coming out and asking for a fix makes it sound like they failed and it puts them on the defensive. Asking if they intended it to be so tight is a way to get them to possibly look into the situation and (like they did for sentinels) admit they had made a mistake. Here is a good real world example: if a customer were to,come up to you and demand that you comp their meal because it was terrible and the service was terrible and that you are terrible, would you help them?

[ArchangelLBC]

I've said this in a few other places but based on the discussion here it needs to be said again: take a step back and honestly look at the questions posed by VGs and Sorcs; they were accusatory, demanding, and even referenced something the devs were in the process of trying to fix. While they SHOULD have thicker skin, they are people and clearly don't. Learn from their mistakes. Don't ask for specific things (like lower cds, a jet pack ability, etc) ask why things are as they are. Here is an example:

 

Bad: Resource management is currently extremely tight for all specs and making mistakes has a high penalty. Is there any intention to fix this to allow Merc/mandos to be more competitive?

 

Good: The community has voiced some concerns over resource management for Merc/mandos. Was this intentional?

 

Coming out and asking for a fix makes it sound like they failed and it puts them on the defensive. Asking if they intended it to be so tight is a way to get them to possibly look into the situation and (like they did for sentinels) admit they had made a mistake. Here is a good real world example: if a customer were to,come up to you and demand that you comp their meal because it was terrible and the service was terrible and that you are terrible, would you help them?

 

On your example, people often DO get comped when their food and service are terrible and they complain loudly. It's when they try to tell the manager nicely that things weren't quite up to par that they don't get anything. BW has no one to blame but themselves, and I think most of us are at the point where we'd rather just give them a piece of our minds before unsubbing.

 

And I don't see anything wrong with your "bad" example, except it should point out that the old DG set bonus consistently performs as well or better than the underworld set bonus simply because of the ammo/heat management ease it provides. Asking if there are plans to either ease ammo management so that the old set bonus does not provide equal or better DPS than the new one is both perfectly reasonable, and can be asked in a manner which isn't accusatory.

 

And on that note going back and reading the questions, I didn't find them all that particularly accusatory. They didn't bother sugar coating things, but its not like they said "what the hell were you thinking nerfing assault so bad that it's a laughing stock in PVP?"

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's a good thing for BW, where my sub is concerned, that I so thoroughly enjoy playing with the people I play with in this game, including ops which I don't feel like paying for passes for. Otherwise I'd have unsubbed a long time ago.

[Macroeconomics]

I've said this in a few other places but based on the discussion here it needs to be said again: take a step back and honestly look at the questions posed by VGs and Sorcs; they were accusatory, demanding...

 

The response of the devs would have been the same no matter how the question was asked. There is a fundamental disconnect here - the devs use different criteria to judge which classes are OP than players do. Players use ingame wz experiences. The expert players use ranked warzones in particular to determine the viability of classes. The devs don't do this. The devs use SWToR's ingame stat collection system to determine the viability of classes. Classes that outperform with higher meta averages are viewed as more powerful. However these meta averages do not take into account variances in player quality. Highly unpopular classes such as Merc Pyro or PT Pyro are nowadays only played by a handful of people - highly skilled people who have chosen to persist with their favorite class. Thus these classes have higher meta averages, despite the fact that they dramatically underperform when faced by equally skilled players in better classes, for example in ranked warzones.

 

To an extent, the behavior of the devs is understandable. They work hard at their jobs. They probably put in 50+ hours a week. They will be lucky if they get in 10 hours a week of competitive pvp. Compare that to the top players who can log 40+ hrs of pvp a week. So the devs can't possibly have the same level of competency/awareness of class balance that the top players do. Yet if they ask the player base which classes are underpowered, all the players say, "MINE!". So the devs fall back on objective rather than subjective criteria. Hence the use of meta averages. But meta averages are highly flawed as shown above. The devs need to switch to using better objective criteria. For example their ingame stat collection system could record the advanced classes used by winning teams in ranked pvp. The most heavily used classes are by close proxy, the classes most favored by the top players. Ergo the ones that are OP. The use of more accurate objective criteria would significantly improve class balance.

[Phrase]

The response of the devs would have been the same no matter how the question was asked. There is a fundamental disconnect here - the devs use different criteria to judge which classes are OP than players do. Players use ingame wz experiences. The expert players use ranked warzones in particular to determine the viability of classes. The devs don't do this. The devs use SWToR's ingame stat collection system to determine the viability of classes. Classes that outperform with higher meta averages are viewed as more powerful. However these meta averages do not take into account variances in player quality. Highly unpopular classes such as Merc Pyro or PT Pyro are nowadays only played by a handful of people - highly skilled people who have chosen to persist with their favorite class. Thus these classes have higher meta averages, despite the fact that they dramatically underperform when faced by equally skilled players in better classes, for example in ranked warzones.

 

To an extent, the behavior of the devs is understandable. They work hard at their jobs. They probably put in 50+ hours a week. They will be lucky if they get in 10 hours a week of competitive pvp. Compare that to the top players who can log 40+ hrs of pvp a week. So the devs can't possibly have the same level of competency/awareness of class balance that the top players do. Yet if they ask the player base which classes are underpowered, all the players say, "MINE!". So the devs fall back on objective rather than subjective criteria. Hence the use of meta averages. But meta averages are highly flawed as shown above. The devs need to switch to using better objective criteria. For example their ingame stat collection system could record the advanced classes used by winning teams in ranked pvp. The most heavily used classes are by close proxy, the classes most favored by the top players. Ergo the ones that are OP. The use of more accurate objective criteria would significantly improve class balance.

 

I've agreed with you for a long time that the BW metrics analysis needs to account for the number of players playing a class as well as including some way to analyze most played comps in both non-pug PvP as well as non-pug ops/ fps.

 

I think even using TorParse could work as an objective standard for measuring class performance to some degree (even though it doesn't collect game-wide data). That site continually shows that the top dps parsers and top heal parsers are the very classes many players suggest are over-tuned, and in correlation the lowest parsers are the classes players see as under-tuned.

 

I somewhat understand where the devs are coming from when they say that ACs that can fill two roles ought to have a higher skill cap in order to offset the perceived increased utility of performing an "off" role in addition to a main role, but the reality is this isn't even the case as there are two easy-play dual role classes as well (ops heals and Juggernauts, who don't even need to spec into their tank tree to be effective tanks in pvp).

 

I'm beginning to think more and more that the class imbalance in this game is due to a fundamental flaw in the approach to class design. The allowance of access to multi-role trees and a desire to move away from the "hard trinity" has left some specs overpowered and some underpowered as class balance has to account for this access to multi-roles. In fact, some balance moves have led to vastly underpowered roles for some classes (concealment ops, merc dps for quite a while, PT dps, sorc dps, and sin tanks), while classes that fill only the DD role are considered truly balanced (sniper and marauder). At least with the last level cap increase, there seems to have been some acknowledgment of this flaw as each tree requires a more heavy point investment to reach desirable skills and some easily poachable pre-2.0 skills were moved higher in their respective trees.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Phrase

[kennethdale]

On your example, people often DO get comped when their food and service are terrible and they complain loudly. It's when they try to tell the manager nicely that things weren't quite up to par that they don't get anything. BW has no one to blame but themselves, and I think most of us are at the point where we'd rather just give them a piece of our minds before unsubbing.

 

It makes me truly sad that you and many others would rather hurt those of us who intend to stay and play mercenaries regardless than make an honest attempt at fixing what is wrong. Truly, truly sad.

 

And I don't see anything wrong with your "bad" example, except it should point out that the old DG set bonus consistently performs as well or better than the underworld set bonus simply because of the ammo/heat management ease it provides. Asking if there are plans to either ease ammo management so that the old set bonus does not provide equal or better DPS than the new one is both perfectly reasonable, and can be asked in a manner which isn't accusatory.

 

The difference is small and purely semantic: one sounds like a selfish demand and the other sounds like a pointed question.

 

And on that note going back and reading the questions, I didn't find them all that particularly accusatory. They didn't bother sugar coating things, but its not like they said "what the hell were you thinking nerfing assault so bad that it's a laughing stock in PVP?"

 

The word "neutered" was used, as was "underwhelmed" and many many others which carry an extremely harsh connotation especially when being used to describe someone's work. Its unfair to say the only failings in word choice came from the deva because while they should have remained impartial its hard not to see why they would respond that way after being told that they had neutered a class. If you cannot step back and honestly evaluate the tone used in both sets of questions, then its sad to say but you truly do have a perspective problem. Again, I'm not saying that the devs were justified in their particular word choice, but of you want to assign connotations to their words, you have to be willing to do the same to your own.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's a good thing for BW, where my sub is concerned, that I so thoroughly enjoy playing with the people I play with in this game, including ops which I don't feel like paying for passes for. Otherwise I'd have unsubbed a long time ago.

 

Arch, you and I have had some long-winded discussions over the past few weeks but I had thought that while we disagreed we were both coming at the problems from the perspective of wanting them to get fixed only with different fixes in mind. As I said at the start, the implications of your post make me doubt whether you actually care about fixing the game or would rather just put up a big middle-finger to Bioware and in the process do so to the rest of the community of players as well. That is absolutely saddening and if that is the case, I will have lost all respect for you.

[ArchangelLBC]

It makes me truly sad that you and many others would rather hurt those of us who intend to stay and play mercenaries regardless than make an honest attempt at fixing what is wrong. Truly, truly sad.

 

The thing is that I am growing weary of trying to fix things. They aren't listening. I don't know that they're gonna ever start listening, and people are growing sick unto death of trying everything they can think of and getting met with nothing. I don't know that I'm at that point yet, but I definitely empathize with them because it's frustrating, and the latest round of answers does nothing but suggest to me that we're all wasting our breath. At which point at least telling BW where they can shove it and leaving has a sort of vindictive pleasure attached to it.

 

Suggest something we can do to actually fix things and I will get behind and push. Despite all my cynicism I've been hammering the fact that our issues need to have specifics and be explained as if to someone who doesn't play the class, and be super specific because I DO want our issues fixed. I WANT this to work. I don't think it will but man do I ever want it to work. Honestly I think if there was any problem with the sorc or VG questions it was that they were talking to BW like BW knows anything about their class.

 

Tell me what I can actually do, and I'm for it 100%. I'm tired of talking in circles over the same topics for months on end without any kind of official response and, more importantly, ACTION.

 

The difference is small and purely semantic: one sounds like a selfish demand and the other sounds like a pointed question.

 

That kind of depends on how you view it. One seems straight forward, and needs some particulars because they aren't knowledgeable about our class. One seems even more vague then the first and is acting like "oh some people mentioned this might be a problem, not that it is of course, but what can ya do?" Should we act like there AREN'T problems?

 

Fact is though that there are going to have to be specifics, and the more specifics, the more obvious it's gonna be that we're disgruntled, and yes BW needs to be big boys and admit there are problems.

 

The word "neutered" was used, as was "underwhelmed" and many many others which carry an extremely harsh connotation especially when being used to describe someone's work. Its unfair to say the only failings in word choice came from the deva because while they should have remained impartial its hard not to see why they would respond that way after being told that they had neutered a class. If you cannot step back and honestly evaluate the tone used in both sets of questions, then its sad to say but you truly do have a perspective problem. Again, I'm not saying that the devs were justified in their particular word choice, but of you want to assign connotations to their words, you have to be willing to do the same to your own.

 

The word choice is one thing, but I personally find their ignorance and their total lack of understanding of the underlying issues to be much worse. Their word choice exacerbates that.

 

And so long as they want to act like their past behavior is totally fine, and continue to let large issues languish for patch after patch the tone is only going to get worse. If they can't deal with tone, then they're gonna do nothing but drive good players away.

 

Arch, you and I have had some long-winded discussions over the past few weeks but I had thought that while we disagreed we were both coming at the problems from the perspective of wanting them to get fixed only with different fixes in mind. As I said at the start, the implications of your post make me doubt whether you actually care about fixing the game or would rather just put up a big middle-finger to Bioware and in the process do so to the rest of the community of players as well. That is absolutely saddening and if that is the case, I will have lost all respect for you.

 

As I said, I WANT things to get fixed. I'd love nothing more. If they were willing to actually dig in and engage, I'd forget everything and be thrilled to dig in with them. That's what is so frustrating. You have tons of players pouring their heart and souls so to speak into trying to engage with the devs and get meaningful changes made.

 

At this point, after all this time where they have consistently paid no mind, I'll admit I'm very cynical, and yes very frustrated, to the point that if I could think of a powerful enough middle finger to get BW to wake up to how much they're dropping the ball I would. If I could be sure it would generate changes I'd do it in a second knowing I'd never be in game to see them.

 

Tell me what you think we can do. I just can't think of anything, and it's harder and harder to try when nothing seems to work.

[kennethdale]

The thing is that I am growing weary of trying to fix things. They aren't listening. I don't know that they're gonna ever start listening, and people are growing sick unto death of trying everything they can think of and getting met with nothing. I don't know that I'm at that point yet, but I definitely empathize with them because it's frustrating, and the latest round of answers does nothing but suggest to me that we're all wasting our breath. At which point at least telling BW where they can shove it and leaving has a sort of vindictive pleasure attached to it.

 

Suggest something we can do to actually fix things and I will get behind and push. Despite all my cynicism I've been hammering the fact that our issues need to have specifics and be explained as if to someone who doesn't play the class, and be super specific because I DO want our issues fixed. I WANT this to work. I don't think it will but man do I ever want it to work. Honestly I think if there was any problem with the sorc or VG questions it was that they were talking to BW like BW knows anything about their class.

 

Tell me what I can actually do, and I'm for it 100%. I'm tired of talking in circles over the same topics for months on end without any kind of official response and, more importantly, ACTION.

 

That kind of depends on how you view it. One seems straight forward, and needs some particulars because they aren't knowledgeable about our class. One seems even more vague then the first and is acting like "oh some people mentioned this might be a problem, not that it is of course, but what can ya do?" Should we act like there AREN'T problems?

 

Fact is though that there are going to have to be specifics, and the more specifics, the more obvious it's gonna be that we're disgruntled, and yes BW needs to be big boys and admit there are problems.

 

The word choice is one thing, but I personally find their ignorance and their total lack of understanding of the underlying issues to be much worse. Their word choice exacerbates that.

 

And so long as they want to act like their past behavior is totally fine, and continue to let large issues languish for patch after patch the tone is only going to get worse. If they can't deal with tone, then they're gonna do nothing but drive good players away.

 

As I said, I WANT things to get fixed. I'd love nothing more. If they were willing to actually dig in and engage, I'd forget everything and be thrilled to dig in with them. That's what is so frustrating. You have tons of players pouring their heart and souls so to speak into trying to engage with the devs and get meaningful changes made.

 

At this point, after all this time where they have consistently paid no mind, I'll admit I'm very cynical, and yes very frustrated, to the point that if I could think of a powerful enough middle finger to get BW to wake up to how much they're dropping the ball I would. If I could be sure it would generate changes I'd do it in a second knowing I'd never be in game to see them.

 

Tell me what you think we can do. I just can't think of anything, and it's harder and harder to try when nothing seems to work.

 

I honestly believe that wording the questions properly can accomplish more than trying to "rub their faces" in the problems. Here are the questions I put together for the Juggernauts who, putting aside the tanking aspect, do have some severe DPS issues:

 

-PvE-

The community has expressed a lot of concern regarding the variance of the Vengeance tree DPS. In particular, the issues seem to stem from the Rampage talent and its relation to the length of the cool downs on both Shatter and impale. Other proc based classes have either a much larger chance to obtain a proc than the 30% of Rampage or are able to use more abilities more often to obtain a proc than Juggernauts at this point. Because of this the DPS of the Vengeance tree can shift by large amounts (up to approximately 300-400 DPS in a given fight) based solely on how often a player received Rampage procs and how well-timed these procs were. As a result of this, many in the community feel that the stronger, more reliable DPS spec is Rage which as was referenced in your answers to the Jedi Sentinel questions is intended to be lower single target DPS but higher multi-target DPS. Is this variability of DPS in the Vengeance tree intended and are Juggernauts intended to use Rage for single-target DPS unlike Marauders/Sentinels?

 

This is the hardest hitting question because it is truly a major issue for them. Instead of coming out and saying "Why on God's green earth would you not test whether Vengeance was truly competitive with Rage in single-target DPS before you ruined the spec?" I went with a way of stating the problem without assigning blame but one which still addresses and specifies the issue: the frequency of the Rampage proc. On top of that, the wording of the actual question portion forces an answer that will either say "Yes, its working as intended" in which case we as a community can get incensed that they consider Rage to be AoE for Marauders but Single-Target for Juggernauts OR they will have to admit that there is a problem. Sadly, we can in no way force them to FIX an issue they admit but, as they say, admitting is half the battle...

 

-PvP-

The community has significant concerns about the usefulness of Enraged Defenses particularly in PvP as all other DPS classes have a resource-free threat drop that in many cases (Marauders/Sentinels, Mercenaries/Commandos, Assassin/Shadow, Operatives/Scoundrels) provides significant utility on top of the threat drop without adding a cost. What is the reasoning behind providing Juggernauts with only a resource-intensive threat drop with the utility of a built-in heal which as long as in effect continues to drain resources and is there any intention to bring this threat drop and attached utility more in line with other similar abilities?

 

Again, I am not calling them out for giving Juggernauts an absolutely retarded and worthless threat drop, I ask for their reasoning after outlining its problems. After that, I phrased a follow-up question that forces them to either tell us that we need to deal with having effectively no threat drop (I know of 0 Vengeance Juggs who will actively use Enraged Defense to reduce threat) or that it is not working but not because I blamed them for messing up.

 

-General-

The community has noticed that while Juggernauts possess some of the strongest defensive cool down abilities we lack any sort of on demand damage increase ability. This can often lead to Juggernauts being viewed as lacking offensive utility in both PvP and PvE environments. Was giving Juggernauts a defensive only suite of cool downs an intentional decision and if so what role did the design and development teams envision Juggernaut DPS fulfilling in group environments?

 

I hope my point is getting across, because again, the idea here is to outline the problem without going into massive detail (look at the questions that got positive responses and you'll se that they are much shorter than the ones that got negative responses) and then force them to tell us that Juggernaut DPS will be forever gimped by a lack of true utility or admit that its not working as intended without telling them which to think.

 

Let me rephrase: It never feels good to be told what you should think or that you are wrong or that you f***ed up. No one likes to hear that. If we instead word the questions in way that implies that while we accept the current version we would like more information behind the current situation as opposed to accusing them of making mistakes and demanding they fix them, I believe we will get better results. I honestly will admit that I have stayed away from this thread because I didn't want to get into a heated discussion about this very topic but the reaction to the answers given to Sorcs and VGs pushed me to try and get people to view this as an opportunity to guide change rather than accuse. I won't try and write three questions for Mercenaries, but I'll try to write one based on the one biggest issue I'm aware of: Resource Management (I apologize for not remembering the names of Mando stuff).

 

-PvE-

The community has expressed a lot of concern regarding the resource management for Mercenaries and in particular Arsenal DPS. As it stands, with the current four piece PvE set bonus, the cost of all of our abilities causes Mercenaries to be extremely careful with their resources adhering very strictly to remaining under 30 heat until Vent Heat is off of cool down because the penalty of pushing past that point without Vent Heat available is upwards of 30 seconds without being able to effectively DPS. This very tight resource management combined with the severe penalty for mistakes does not seem in line with other DPS classes all of whom possess effective resource management either innately or via a shorter cool down than Vent Heat. Was this level of resource management intended and is there any concern regarding Mercenaries/Commandos using the Black Hole armorings without suffering any DPS loss due to the relaxed resource management?

 

Its not perfect and I feel that it could use a lot of tuning because it still could come off as accusatory but its 12am and its the best I could think of I didn't want to bring up the old set bonus issue until the very end because I kind of wanted to add the curveball in case that is something they weren't aware of, its put in a way that I feel can't be ignored. As with the Juggernaut questions I listed, we will either get an answer that says "Yes, you are working as intended but let us go ahead and break that set bonus" or we will get the positive "You know, that does seem like something we should look into fixing and maybe we should go ahead and fix the new set bonuses to match the old ones or do something else like lower the CD on Vent heat". That's my honest opinion.