Odyseus Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I'm afraid this will be the cookie cutter composition of 4x4 arena's. With this team, they have the most defensive cooldowns, leaps, guard, with great burst DPS. I just don't see how any can compete with healer melee combo's in such a closed area. This game is designed so that ranged is only effective if no one notices them, once Melee notices you it's all down hill from there.. In WOW, I could tank Melee classes with my Warlock, have lots of CC and defensive cooldowns with my Mage. Unless there's a major re balance of the game mechanics (Which there won't be) this is going to be like ranked but only worse in terms of what classes will be optimal for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 what you want there, is 2 healer, tank and dps composition. 2 merc healers will do same thing if not better. merc healer, with pt tank (to pull enemy healer) and 2 smash juggs will do better. full stealth team will do good too. hell, even merc healer + 3 snipers will do deadly (4x360 degrees KB 3xaoe mezzes, one range mezz, leap to only one person, hello). there are alot of deadly combinations. you are focusing on hatred of operative healers way to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selout Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) Lol, there will be nothing like rmp in this game. Besides, rmp actually took a high degree of skill to pull off. Garbage ones got utterly stomped. And, if Scound/Op stays the same, 1 if not both will occupy the healing slots (if indeed they let more than one heal in there). Mando/Merc heals don't really bring the same level of healing throughput in PvP as the other 2 ac's. Edited July 19, 2013 by Selout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) I don't know how the ultimate combo will look like, but one thing I know: If class design stays as it is now, than it will have healers and tanks only. And the healers will probably be ops/scounds, and the tanks will probably be smasher baboons. Perhaps there should be a separate arena for DPSers. Edited July 19, 2013 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 And, if Scound/Op stays the same, 1 if not both will occupy the healing slots (if indeed they let more than one heal in there). Mando/Merc heals don't really bring the same level of healing throughput in PvP as the other 2 ac's. on a small range (4 man team) Mercs should do just fine. specially with 360 degrees KB and 30 m in combat 8 second mezz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I think its a bit early to tell what classes will work for arenas because I have this feeling they will touch up balance with 2.4. I mean you cant have a 'pvp' patch without a little work towards balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I think its a bit early to tell what classes will work for arenas because I have this feeling they will touch up balance with 2.4. I mean you cant have a 'pvp' patch without a little work towards balance. Yeah, they'll probably reduce energy costs for healer ops and add autocrit to smash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCourier- Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) 2 operative healers will probably be what is used for arenas. Unless the opposing team has 4 marauders or 4 assassins, nothing will die fast, because operative's HPS is so much higher than every DPS classes DPS (talking about training target parsing). So, since you would have to bring at least 2-3 DPS to kill 1 medic, when there is a tank guard swapping between the two operative medics (juggernaut or powertech), then 4 DPS are now required, which is the entire other team. Meanwhile, since you still have a DPS juggernaut, maruader, sniper, etc attacking them, the 4 DPS team will eventually die. Eventually, 2 operatives, 1 tank, and 1 DPS will probably be the standard arena composition. Arenas will get very boring. On Pot5, there are already a lot of FotM operatives. Edited July 19, 2013 by TheCourier- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 You'll never kill anything with one DPS and a competent heal/tank on the other team. I thought at first there would be some magic comp everyone would use but a lot of people bring up a lot of good arguments for very different comps. Really all you can do is put together a list of each classes strengths/weaknesses and figure out who want on your team from there. For instance a VG/Mando combo could pull the tank and E Net the tank/healer and let the DPS go to town on the healer. A Combat Sent will be able to keep the healer from going anywhere. But if they have a Sage they will be able to pull the tank/healer back over into guard range. Shadow tanks will be able to blink back to the healer from 60m out. I think every class has something to bring to a small team comp. some have more than others but how well the players are at their classes is going to make the biggest difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I think its a bit early to tell what classes will work for arenas because I have this feeling they will touch up balance with 2.4. I mean you cant have a 'pvp' patch without a little work towards balance. They will nerf assassins. Just way too bursty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occu_lus Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I don't actually think you have any idea how RMP was played and what made it strong It also was never "the one" FOTM comp (if you are referring to that) because the comp always had an extremely high skillcap as it was mentioned earlier (in comparison to double Shadowmourne TSG or Vancleave for instance) Moreover, I think it is a little early to make any assumptions about FOTM comps. I am pretty sure there will be major nerfs to some classes, to make arena more accessible to unexperienced players. 3 sins + op healer, for instance, would blow any inexperienced team into pieces within seconds, however, it is simple to counter for better players (if you keep your calm once they're opening on you). Pretty sure you will be seeing this comp quite a lot tho. However, my point is: just wait for the 2.4 PTR and do some testing before making these pointless theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillHolmes Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yep 3 Deception and an Op healer, other teams healer would die instantly during stun from stealth with or without guard, then cloak switch targets and game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprisex Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Any idea when this will hit the test server. I cannot wait to get into arenas. Comps will be based off whatever changes are made pre-test. My guess is this will be a fairly lengthy test to allow them to sort out the balance and prevent the super combo... Arenas offer some new challenges, but God am I glad to have them. This game needed a boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 They will nerf assassins. Just way too bursty. Probably nerf madness as well. I mean I saw another sin using lightning charge about a month ago in a warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yep 3 Deception and an Op healer, other teams healer would die instantly during stun from stealth with or without guard, then cloak switch targets and game over. A sage can speed and pull a healer out of that. Might be tough but I'm sure a talented Sage could do it. If they have a commando/vanguard/both they can have stealth scan up for 12/24 seconds plus hail of bolts. Gunslingers have great stealth detection plus lots' of AoE's to keep people in. Infil/decption has no AoE damage to speak of, keeping a tight perimeter with a GS/Sniper and you own Shadow lurking around may be able to flush them out. There is counter to just about everything you can do in this game. We will need to see arenas plus whatever balance changes they make leading up to them before we can say any comp will be the FOTM comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCourier- Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) A sage can speed and pull a healer out of that. Might be tough but I'm sure a talented Sage could do it. If they have a commando/vanguard/both they can have stealth scan up for 12/24 seconds plus hail of bolts. Gunslingers have great stealth detection plus lots' of AoE's to keep people in. Infil/decption has no AoE damage to speak of, keeping a tight perimeter with a GS/Sniper and you own Shadow lurking around may be able to flush them out. There is counter to just about everything you can do in this game. We will need to see arenas plus whatever balance changes they make leading up to them before we can say any comp will be the FOTM comp. Killing 2 operative medics and a tank is almost impossible with 4 DPS players. Edited July 19, 2013 by TheCourier- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Killing 2 operative medics and a tank is almost impossible with 4 DPS players. Killing anything with 1 DPS against a competent healer/tank is almost impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCourier- Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) Killing anything with 1 DPS against a competent healer/tank is almost impossible. Then arenas will stalemate. Stalemates are already very common in regular WZs. Edited July 19, 2013 by TheCourier- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Then arenas will stalemate. Stalemates are already very common in regular WZs. That's is pretty likely if you have 2 top rated teams. It will come down to who makes a mistake first or who bugs out first (shroud not blocking a CC, ghost GCD etc). However it's pretty likely with the lower barrier for entry, 4 instead of 8, many possible comps, that their will be a broader spectrum of talent in arenas. Some teams will get rocked, some teams will put up a good fight but ultimately lose and some will stalemate. With a bigger pool of people it own't be the same 3 teams fighting each other in ranked all night either. So hopefully even top teams will have trouble against less talented teams just because the comps are hard countered to each other. It's a lot harder to make up for a class/spec deficiencies with only 3 other players on the team as opposed to 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneWag Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Killing anything with 1 DPS against a competent healer/tank is almost impossible. The idea would be to have Healers who can put out a modicum of damage at little to no cost. Supercharge Cell Merc / Mando? Plenty of free attacks...Good luck with dat dere LOS though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 The idea would be to have Healers who can put out a modicum of damage at little to no cost. Supercharge Cell Merc / Mando? Plenty of free attacks...Good luck with dat dere LOS though Risky, if you don't make the kill the Mandos healing output is going to be reduced after SCC wears off (which is low enough as it is). As you mentioned there's also LoS as well as interrupts to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankqull Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) my guess will be heal: 2x ops 2 ops where atleast one will have a heal/leth (23/23)splitspec that way you have alot instant heal and nice dmg combined. 1dps: Maro you will need a heal debuff wich is provided by only 2 classes and from the pictures of the arenas ranged classes will be at a disadvatage => maro will be the only option. 1 tank: assa as you will see quite often teams with 2 healers you will need any dmg you can get your hands on, and the assa is providing the highest dmg of all tanks, and is the only one capable of speccing into a 30% aoe dmg reduce. Edited July 19, 2013 by Tankqull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) heal/tank/2dps is probaly going to be the ideal comp for 4v4s you could probably run 2 heals/2 dps as well. you wont kill anyone with only 1 dedicated DPS tho, and if the game is TDM youre not doing it right. im thinking that scoundrel healer, guardian tank, commando dps, and a combat sent would be a solid comp Edited July 19, 2013 by cashogy_reborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashuranrx Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) There needs to be stalemate breakers in arenas, or they will be boring as hell if 2 healer + 1 tank + 1 DPS combo run into each other and the game will never end. Maybe they can: 1. Add warzone damage boosters to the map after the games started for 5 minutes. 2. Activate traps in the map (similar to Huttball traps) after the game started for 7.5 minutes. 3. Lasers/missles rain down all over the map randomly, doing AoE damage to all hit players, after the game started for 10 minutes. Someone got to die after all that. lol Edited July 19, 2013 by Ashuranrx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 VG/Shadow tank, Gunenry Mando, Combat Sent, Mando heals. - E Net tank - Pull healer - E Net healer - Turn Sent loose on healer, lots of interrupts/roots - Use mandos to stealth scan if you need to, KB, stun other DPS Is this the best team comp? Who knows really but that could be brutal for an inexperienced healer to deal with. Lots of unknowns still and since I've heard plenty of people claim that several different comps will be the FOTM comp I'd say it's still up for debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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