Bolster.. why are some so threatened by it?

[Floplag]

Seriously.. i mean they fixed it so your top level gear still has an advantage, but that's not good enough?

Why are some of you so terrified by this simple little thing whose entire goal is to give those with less time to farm comms a fighting chance?

Top level gear still has the advantage.. what more can you want? at this point if you play better you will win the fight, isnt that what WZ should be all about?

[Kawiki]

Seriously.. i mean they fixed it so your top level gear still has an advantage, but that's not good enough?

Why are some of you so terrified by this simple little thing whose entire goal is to give those with less time to farm comms a fighting chance?

Top level gear still has the advantage.. what more can you want? at this point if you play better you will win the fight, isnt that what WZ should be all about?

 

Where is my bolstered PvE gear, i don't have time to run all those boring HMs etc but I want to go on Night Mare Ops....

 

It really is exactly the same thing. Gearing for PvP takes a week or so of doing your PvP dailies. If you can;t even do that, even bolstered you are just a drag on the team anyway. It's not that anyone is threatened by it, it's the simple fact you don't give a **** and expect to be on even footing.

[Pistols]

i mean they fixed it

 

No they didn't.

 

/thread_end

Edited July 17, 2013 by Pistols

[maverickmatt]

Bolster is laughable at best. The gear gap still exists, and skilled players will always outplay geared players.

 

A Bolsterchild will always be bested by someone who knows their class and has put in the time to acquire PvP gear.

 

EDIT: It has no place in Ranked, and it's so overly complex that it's easily exploitable. I vote they follow the Keep It Simple Stupid method. It works out better.

Edited July 17, 2013 by maverickmatt

[Warshades]

I thought this was an MMORPG, not an FPS. Equal stats is for FPS, progressive stats are for MMOs.

 

That being said, this is a result of Sepratists who want to separate players into PvE and PvP catagories. It wasnt always this way.

 

If it wernt for expertise, there would be no need for bolster.

 

It doesnt even really make sense. We debuff everyone who enters PvP, then give everyone expertise, then let the expertise remove the debuff.....

 

ummmm, why not just remove expertise, remove bolster......and remove the debuff?

 

3 systems of coding implace just to veto each other out...yeah makes absolutely no sense to me.

[SomeJagoff]

No they didn't.

 

/thread_end

 

I have to agree with Mr. Pistols.

[MidichIorian]

The problem is that they took away progression without replacing it with something new . I don't have a problem with PvE-Joe having the same stats as me, the problem is that there's no carrot anymore. It's not like a sane person would grind warzones for the sake of the look on the gear. Accept that it's not a shooter where everyone pretty much has the same stats (give or take the BS that is COD). It's a MMO and it doesnt matter if it's PvP or PvE, people like progression.

 

It would have been a completely different story if there had been a proper matchmaking system with skill levels. That's the kind of progression I would have wanted. Not to mention that I wouldnt have to deal with PvE-Joes who have to ask how you throw the ball.

 

And in all fairness, who exactly is the current bolster designed for? I'm going to tell you who, the guy who miraculously managed to ding 55 in 30 levels old gear. That's the only scenario in which the system somewhat has a function. 99,999% of all players do however either have some lvl 55 PvE gear or recent, as in lvl 54, PvE gear which ultimately makes them benefit too much (IMO). Why even have bolster if what they're aiming for is a static baseline for everyone? Let's just boost everyone to 2800 main + 2600 end instead and get rid of expertise. That's seems to be what they want so why the delay? And when they ask themselves why all the non-rated players, which is like 99 % of all players, stopped playing they can go back to padding themselves on their backs for implementing bolster and baselines. Realize that the game is not good enough to not have progression!!!!!!

Edited July 17, 2013 by MidichIorian

[Kawiki]

I thought this was an MMORPG, not an FPS. Equal stats is for FPS, progressive stats are for MMOs.

 

That being said, this is a result of Sepratists who want to separate players into PvE and PvP catagories. It wasnt always this way.

 

If it wernt for expertise, there would be no need for bolster.

 

It doesnt even really make sense. We debuff everyone who enters PvP, then give everyone expertise, then let the expertise remove the debuff.....

 

ummmm, why not just remove expertise, remove bolster......and remove the debuff?

 

3 systems of coding implace just to veto each other out...yeah makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

Because you would HAVE to PvE then to be competative in PvP...

[kweassa]

There's no reason to be "threatened" by bolster, nor does bolster effect the combat in any way to your disadvantage.

 

The simple truth is, if people have high-tier, top-performing gear, whether be it PvE or PvP, then there is no noticeable advantage or disadvantage in terms of performance. It simply comes down to who plays better.

 

However, when it comes down to lower-level gear and/or first entry to max-level bracket, bolster helps people (regardless whether they are PvPers or PvEers) mend the huge gap in performance and improves the QOL for people with lower-tier equipment, and stops them from totally demotivated and just dumping PvP as a whole.

 

As to answer your original question, the reason people keep nagging on the bolster system -- despite the fact that it has no drawbacks and benefits everyone -- is as follows:

 

(1) Terribads use bolster as an excuse to paint themselves as being some victim, treated unjustly in some manner by the system.

 

(2) Its just simply another way of QQing; "No fair! I worked hard for my gear! I should be having the advantage in combat, and they should be weaker than me so I can beat them easily! The only reason I keep getting faceplanted is because those PvE people have gear way too powerful than it should be! If only bolster was not here, I would be beating their 0-expertise toons to pulp!"

 

(3) To summarize, its a QQ/excuse for people who can't beat anyone unless they are significantly weaker than themselves. However, if they point this out they know they are going to be ridiculed by real PvPers, so they mask their intentions and bring up this phantasmal "bolster problem", as a straw-man argument, when such a thing doesn't exist.

 

 

Harsh, but truth.

Edited July 17, 2013 by kweassa

[Pistols]

There's no reason to be "threatened" by bolster, nor does bolster effect the combat in any way to your disadvantage.

 

The simple truth is, if people have high-tier, top-performing gear, whether be it PvE or PvP, then there is no noticeable advantage or disadvantage in terms of performance. It simply comes down to who plays better.

 

However, when it comes down to lower-level gear and/or first entry to max-level bracket, bolster helps people (regardless whether they are PvPers or PvEers) mend the huge gap in performance and improves the QOL for people with lower-tier equipment, and stops them from totally demotivated and just dumping PvP as a whole.

 

As to answer your original question, the reason people keep nagging on the bolster system -- despite the fact that it has no drawbacks and benefits everyone -- is as follows:

 

(1) Terribads use bolster as an excuse to paint themselves as being some victim, treated unjustly in some manner by the system.

 

(2) Its just simply another way of QQing; "No fair! I worked hard for my gear! I should be having the advantage in combat, and they should be weaker than me so I can beat them easily! The only reason I keep getting faceplanted is because those PvE people have gear way too powerful than it should be! If only bolster was not here, I would be beating their 0-expertise toons to pulp!"

 

(3) To summarize, its a QQ/excuse for people who can't beat anyone unless they are significantly weaker than themselves. However, if they point this out they know they are going to be ridiculed by real PvPers, so they mask their intentions and bring up this phantasmal "bolster problem", when such a thing doesn't exist.

 

 

Harsh, but truth.

 

Because Bolster has been working as intended since April.

 

Tell me more about how Bolster is so awesome...

[Warshades]

Because you would HAVE to PvE then to be competative in PvP...

 

Not if PvP gear was on par with PvE gear. Or *gasp* they use a different carrot for PvP like valor skills and you can PvE for gear and PvP for valor skills and enjoy ALL of the game rather than just a mini-game....

 

Or we keep it simple for folks who are incapable of PvEing 1-2 nights a week and make PvP = PvE gear.

 

Your logic is flawed....adding in more systems to keep the players separated. It hasnt worked so far, why do you think it will ever work?

[Roysten]

Because Bolster has been working as intended since April.

 

Tell me more about how Bolster is so awesome...

 

O.K. then.

Bolster is awesome because on my alts after they ding 50, I no longer have to put up with being farmed by backpeddling keyboard turners, who have afked their way to a huge gear advantage, for a week.

 

The gear gap is smaller and the efforts to squeeze every last drop of exploited edge from the system that are trumpeted from the roof tops here have given only small advantages that get patched out. In normal wzs not noticed any of the bugs make an impact, apart from getting me wealthy selling purple 54 gloves for a week. Ranked there is an argument for removing it but even that is just fluff compared to Macro abuse.

 

In the end its the same as most of the buff/nerf/premade arguements, people get damaged selfestime and clutch at straws.

[Kawiki]

Not if PvP gear was on par with PvE gear. Or *gasp* they use a different carrot for PvP like valor skills and you can PvE for gear and PvP for valor skills and enjoy ALL of the game rather than just a mini-game....

 

Or we keep it simple for folks who are incapable of PvEing 1-2 nights a week and make PvP = PvE gear.

 

Your logic is flawed....adding in more systems to keep the players separated. It hasnt worked so far, why do you think it will ever work?

 

It works for me. I geared on my new 55 in less then a week. I wasn't doing more then a few extra WZs a night. Am I full conq, no, do i need to be to enjoy PvP, no. To be fair I was prepared when i hit 55 but it is max 2 weeks to be in full part. gear even if you were not prepared at all at 55.

 

I have no desire to do any PvE, it is beyond boring to me. The only way I would agree to something like you are proposing is to make the exact same top gear available either through PvE OR PvP.

[SomeJagoff]

And in all fairness, who exactly is the current bolster designed for? I'm going to tell you who, the guy who miraculously managed to ding 55 in 30 levels old gear. That's the only scenario in which the system somewhat has a function.

 

I've brought this up before, but in all likelihood, they came up with this system for Free 2 Play players. They're already limited to a handful of warzones per week, there is absolutely no way that they're going to be able to gear up or be remotely competitive, especially if they're getting stomped by premades, or getingt backfilled into losing matches, getting anywhere from 0-80 comms per match. On top of that, for whatever reason, Bioware decided to NOT give out recruit gear to F2P players before 2.0, so their only choice was to buy it directly via credits.....which just happened to cost more than their credit caps allowed.

 

So in essence, with Bolster, new F2P players can join a warzone in lvl 20 gear and stomp other players, which bioware hopes will make them subscribers or at least dish out RL money repeatedly for wz passes.

 

Everything else seems to revolve around the cartel market, why wouldn't bolster too?

Edited July 17, 2013 by SomeJagoff

[Technohic]

O.K. then.

Bolster is awesome because on my alts after they ding 50, I no longer have to put up with being farmed by backpeddling keyboard turners, who have afked their way to a huge gear advantage, for a week.

 

The gear gap is smaller and the efforts to squeeze every last drop of exploited edge from the system that are trumpeted from the roof tops here have given only small advantages that get patched out. In normal wzs not noticed any of the bugs make an impact, apart from getting me wealthy selling purple 54 gloves for a week. Ranked there is an argument for removing it but even that is just fluff compared to Macro abuse.

 

In the end its the same as most of the buff/nerf/premade arguements, people get damaged selfestime and clutch at straws.

 

You are again defending bolster with the theory of bolster rather than how it actually works. But then; no one really knows how it actually works entirely, now do they? I will say that unless you figure out which PvE stuff is bolstered the best, there is as big of gear gap as ever there was with recruit, and if you ask me; much harder to figure out than saying "Hey, I need this free recruit gear set."

[MidichIorian]

O.K. then.

Bolster is awesome because on my alts after they ding 50, I no longer have to put up with being farmed by backpeddling keyboard turners, who have afked their way to a huge gear advantage, for a week.

Funny, that means that I'm either God's gift to gaming for topping charts on my sorc in full greens pre-bolster.......or you're simply horrible at the game. It hurts to say it but I'm leaning toward the latter.

I've brought this up before, but in all likelihood, they came up with this system for Free 2 Play players.:

As unfortunate as it is I have to agree with your conclusion. They're catering to potential customers instead of trying to keep the ones they have.

Edited July 17, 2013 by MidichIorian

[Falkenhausen]

How long has bolster been in game now? At least a few months.

 

How long before people quit whining about it?

 

Probably never.

[Roysten]

You are again defending bolster with the theory of bolster rather than how it actually works. But then; no one really knows how it actually works entirely, now do they? I will say that unless you figure out which PvE stuff is bolstered the best, there is as big of gear gap as ever there was with recruit, and if you ask me; much harder to figure out than saying "Hey, I need this free recruit gear set."

 

Dragged a couple of alts to 55 and the experience of playing that first week before all pvp geared was miles away from playing in recruit gear. I was not a free kill at any stage. Why bother figuring out which pve bit is the best, I dont pve I just used the stuff from the makeb vendor then went to partisan. Competative all the way, bolster worked fine.

[Technohic]

How long has bolster been in game now? At least a few months.

 

How long before people quit whining about it?

 

Probably never.

 

You know, I once defended bolster when people were calling it the NGE of SWTOR. Theory was good, and in theory it was hardly the game changing event of the NGE, but in practice; it is starting to look like it. The theory was not reality and in the end, much like SWG; there will still be people clamoring how they should have rolled back to pre-NGE.

[Roysten]

Funny, that means that I'm either God's gift to gaming for topping charts on my sorc in full greens pre-bolster.......or you're simply horrible at the game. It hurts to say it but I'm leaning toward the latter.

 

.

 

If you topped the charts pre bolster in full greens then you are God's gift to gaming, fair play.

[Technohic]

Dragged a couple of alts to 55 and the experience of playing that first week before all pvp geared was miles away from playing in recruit gear. I was not a free kill at any stage. Why bother figuring out which pve bit is the best, I dont pve I just used the stuff from the makeb vendor then went to partisan. Competative all the way, bolster worked fine.

 

See. You knew to go to the vendor. I know to an extent to use 54 armor and had augments right off the bat and had around 26k+ health. Still; when I look around a warzone, I will see someone with 22000 health and another of the same class at 30k+. Health is easy to see, but I would bet we have as widely varying stats across the board.

[Avicii]

Funny, that means that I'm either God's gift to gaming for topping charts on my sorc in full greens pre-bolster.......or you're simply horrible at the game. It hurts to say it but I'm leaning toward the latter.

 

As unfortunate as it is I have to agree with your conclusion. They're catering to potential customers instead of trying to keep the ones they have.

The truth is there is turn over rate in MMOs people leave, people comeback and they need new players and returning players to not bail and they want them to sub or buy WZ passes. New players getting crushed doesn't encourage staying or subbing. Granted people that are PvPers and good will win most of the time vs the new players but if they feel like they stand a chance you can keep them here. Plus I think they hoped to bolster queue times with PvE players since we have no cross server queuing.

 

Bolster helps soften the curve for new players, returning players and alts which helps generate revenue which is the bottom line. The Devs may love the game but EA is a business with a goal of return on profit if they see this as a way to generate revenue that's the way they will go. If it isn't generating revenue then I could see if bring scrapped but I doubt they will ever do that so it's time to move on from this and focus on arenas!! Let the qq train start about balance and allowed class comps!

[Roysten]

See. You knew to go to the vendor. I know to an extent to use 54 armor and had augments right off the bat and had around 26k+ health. Still; when I look around a warzone, I will see someone with 22000 health and another of the same class at 30k+. Health is easy to see, but I would bet we have as widely varying stats across the board.

 

I see 22000 health, inspect, then whisper "bolster does not work on BM/Champ/Recruit gear use pve".

[Warshades]

It works for me. I geared on my new 55 in less then a week. I wasn't doing more then a few extra WZs a night. Am I full conq, no, do i need to be to enjoy PvP, no. To be fair I was prepared when i hit 55 but it is max 2 weeks to be in full part. gear even if you were not prepared at all at 55.

 

I have no desire to do any PvE, it is beyond boring to me. The only way I would agree to something like you are proposing is to make the exact same top gear available either through PvE OR PvP.

 

Have you completed any of the HM or NM mode Ops yet? I use to think PvE was boring. I love PvP. But after 2.0 I've spent more time PvEing than PvPing, and I've found the higher end difficulty very enjoyable. I hadnt even completed a OPs until after 2.0. I only did 3 or 4 HM Flashpoints before 2.0 and I've been playing since release.

 

Am I saying that PvE is better than PvP....hell no, but not only will it NOT kill you to do PvE 1 or 2 nights a week but you might enjoy the break for the repetitive WZ grind. I know after a year of doing the same 5 wz's its been nice to take a break and see what else this game has to offer.

 

Here would be my suggestion

 

Make Partisan lvl 53 and equal to 66. Make Conq. 69, make a new Elite Conq 72s.

 

Partisan will sell at the current price of the lvl 40 pvp gear. Conq will sell @ the price of current partisan, E. Conq will sell @ the price of current conq.

 

Only 1 set of gear is higher than PvP, and that is KD only obtainable through NM Ops. Now before you get all upset about carrots and all, I got something for us PvP'rs

 

Since the highest gear set is PvE obtained, there is a new carrot only obtainable through PvP.....valor skills.

 

Each rank of valor awards a point to spend on a linear skill system. For example one skill might be

 

Augmented Strength.

lvl1 = 50str cost = 1 pt

lvl2 = 100str cost = 3 pts (4 total)

lvl3 = 150 str cost = 6 pts (10 total)

lvl4= 200 str cost = 10 pts (20 total)

lvl5= 250 str cost = 15 pts (35 total)

 

So while you may see a pure PvE'r will full KD gear join a wz, they may be low Valor rank and only have Aug str 2. While you are high valor rank with Aug str 5.

 

So your stats are on par if not higher due to you having more valor. And as you spend 1 night a week farming NM Ops and he spends time doing WZs, youll both equal out.

 

Now of course I would love to see a matchmaking system put into place aswell but this should get rid of the need for expertise/bolster/debuff

[MidichIorian]

I see 22000 health, inspect, then whisper "bolster does not work on BM/Champ/Recruit gear use pve".

And that's another problem with the current system, people arent informed. Hell, I still don't know to which degree, if at all, augs help while leveling or if it actually hurts me to wear lvl 32 augs on my lvl 35. I'm perfectly fine with lowbie bolster though but they could have made the whole thing a tad more straightforward.

 

At 55 I'm fine with bolster too but I think that they should either bolster stats OR expertise. People are currently getting both for free and the gap between geared and "no gear at all" isnt wide enough to open up for progression.