Pay to Win

[Grayseven]

Why pay for a free game? So you can actually play the game that was suppose to be free?

 

This game isn't free. It wasn't made to be free. It cost hundreds of millions of investment dollars by a major corporation that exists for the sole single purpose of making money on the products they sell.

 

EA/BW (or any company for that matter) does not make a product for you to play for free out of the kindness of their hearts.

 

If you play for free, you get exactly what you pay for. You get to deal with restrictions that seem onerous because they are onerous. If you don't like the restrictions, you pay to remove them either through a subscription or through unlocks in the CM.

 

The nice thing is, you can play for free and take the credits you earn while playing and buy those unlocks from the GTN. But in no way should you expect to get full and unrestricted access to a game without paying for it.

 

This isn't a charity for needy nerds, it is a business.

 

Edit: Oh, now I get it, you think because OTHER players are paying for the game that you should get it for free...

 

Entitled much?

Edited August 1, 2013 by Grayseven

[Propane]

This game isn't free. It wasn't made to be free. It cost hundreds of millions of investment dollars by a major corporation that exists for the sole single purpose of making money on the products they sell.

 

EA/BW (or any company for that matter) does not make a product for you to play for free out of the kindness of their hearts.

 

If you play for free, you get exactly what you pay for. You get to deal with restrictions that seem onerous because they are onerous. If you don't like the restrictions, you pay to remove them either through a subscription or through unlocks in the CM.

 

The nice thing is, you can play for free and take the credits you earn while playing and buy those unlocks from the GTN. But in no way should you expect to get full and unrestricted access to a game without paying for it.

 

This isn't a charity for needy nerds, it is a business.

 

Thus going back to why the game is Pay to Win. If you pay, you will be defiantly stronger than a F2Per - not to counting you will also be having more "fun" if you pay.

 

 

According to those who actually made the game - it is FREE TO PLAY. I'd rather listen to them than people saying "No SWTOR isn't free to pay, just ignore with the devs are saying"

 

It will be Freemium when the devs stop calling it Free to Play, not when a couple of people defending EA on a forum call it freemium.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Propane

[Propane]

Edit: Oh, now I get it, you think because OTHER players are paying for the game that you should get it for free...

 

I am obviously not getting this free - seeing how I am actually allowed to post on this website. Also seeing how I actually paid for the physical copy of SWTOR when it launched.

 

I'd rather waste the last few days of my SWTOR subscription watching people defend EA's practices than rather play the game. It is much more fun.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Propane

[Grayseven]

Thus going back to why the game is Pay to Win. If you pay, you will be defiantly stronger than a F2Per - not to counting you will also be having more "fun" if you pay.

 

 

According to those who actually made the game - it is FREE TO PLAY. I'd rather listen to them than people saying "No SWTOR isn't free to pay, just ignore with the devs are saying"

 

It's not Pay to Win. It is Pay to play the game as intended. F2P was an afterthought and in order to continue to earn money restrictions had to be put into place to encourage some actual spending by players regardless of whether or not they were F2P.

 

So F2P is actually Free to play some of the game but if you want the full experience you'll have to pay.

 

Of course, neither of those has the ADHD quality of F2P or P2W even if they are better descriptors of the realities of this (and other) online games.

 

You seem to think that the original game model is gone and that the "new" F2P model is now the standard. In truth, this game is a subscription MMO that offers a F2P version. So it is not a F2P game. It never was. It simply has a F2P version that has some pretty strict restrictions. As it should, since the F2P aren't doing anything to support the game and the company if they aren't spending money.

[Propane]

It's not Pay to Win. It is Pay to play the game as intended. F2P was an afterthought and in order to continue to earn money restrictions had to be put into place to encourage some actual spending by players regardless of whether or not they were F2P.

 

So F2P is actually Free to play some of the game but if you want the full experience you'll have to pay.

 

Of course, neither of those has the ADHD quality of F2P or P2W even if they are better descriptors of the realities of this (and other) online games.

 

You seem to think that the original game model is gone and that the "new" F2P model is now the standard. In truth, this game is a subscription MMO that offers a F2P version. So it is not a F2P game. It never was. It simply has a F2P version that has some pretty strict restrictions. As it should, since the F2P aren't doing anything to support the game and the company if they aren't spending money.

 

It was Pay to Play, but now it isn't and it shouldn't be used as a handicap to make an excuse that the F2P model is so atrocious. Tons of other Pay to Play MMO's haven't used their previous model as a handicap to make a bad F2P model, what makes SWTOR so special?

Edited August 1, 2013 by Propane

[Grayseven]

I am obviously not getting this free - seeing how I am actually allowed to post on this website. Also seeing how I actually paid for the physical copy of SWTOR when it launched.

 

I'd rather waste the last few days of my SWTOR subscription watching people defend EA's practices than rather play the game. It is much more fun.

 

Ah, so you are going F2P and don't like the restrictions and only now do you feel the need to try to champion the leeches in order to possibly skim some cream off the top for yourself. You are still arguing for a self serving interest that is not in the best interest of the player base as a whole.

 

Congrats, your purchase and subscription helped keep the game afloat. If you have decided to stop supporting the game, why do you feel you are owed something for no longer supporting it? Your purchase and subsequent subscription got you exactly what you paid for and should have expected. To now expect more for less is nothing short of the very definition of entitlement.

[Grayseven]

It was Pay to Play, but now it isn't and it shouldn't be used as a handicap to make an excuse that the F2P model is so atrocious.

 

Wrong. It is still very much Pay to Play as is evidenced by the simple fact that only through paying do you get unfettered access. It simply has a Free to Play option.

[BUBBUH]

This game isn't free. It wasn't made to be free. It cost hundreds of millions of investment dollars by a major corporation that exists for the sole single purpose of making money on the products they sell.

 

EA/BW (or any company for that matter) does not make a product for you to play for free out of the kindness of their hearts.

 

If you play for free, you get exactly what you pay for. You get to deal with restrictions that seem onerous because they are onerous. If you don't like the restrictions, you pay to remove them either through a subscription or through unlocks in the CM.

 

The nice thing is, you can play for free and take the credits you earn while playing and buy those unlocks from the GTN. But in no way should you expect to get full and unrestricted access to a game without paying for it.

 

This isn't a charity for needy nerds, it is a business.

 

Edit: Oh, now I get it, you think because OTHER players are paying for the game that you should get it for free...

 

Entitled much?

 

SWTOR is by all means, a bad mmo in every sense. Gameplay, graphics, mob variaty and even pvp. On top of that its one the more expensive mmos out there.

 

It has literally one thing going for it, the story and the grind to 50. Past that sole exception, everything else is garbage. So fine, blow 45$ and enjoy your 3 months of fun. I'll take my 50$ and get a better mmo like GW2 which has evolved into mmo 1.5. Oh and its a one time deal, no leeching off your wallet there, unlike here.

 

And i lol'ed when you called this a business, It's called EA wiping up the scraps for a last dollar, in order to be a business you need actual consumers. And no, having like 4 servers with just a couple hundred people each isn't much.

[Propane]

Ah, so you are going F2P and don't like the restrictions and only now do you feel the need to try to champion the leeches in order to possibly skim some cream off the top for yourself. You are still arguing for a self serving interest that is not in the best interest of the player base as a whole.

 

Congrats, your purchase and subscription helped keep the game afloat. If you have decided to stop supporting the game, why do you feel you are owed something for no longer supporting it? Your purchase and subsequent subscription got you exactly what you paid for and should have expected. To now expect more for less is nothing short of the very definition of entitlement.

 

I don't plan on playing this game free, and no one should.

 

You are assuming too much of what I am saying.

[Grayseven]

I don't plan on playing this game free, and no one should.

 

You are assuming too much of what I am saying.

 

Then why even bother unless you are simply trolling for trolling's sake. Sorry, but your comments indicate quite poignantly that you are indeed looking to get the P2P experience at F2P prices...if not for you, then for others that may follow in your footsteps.

[Propane]

Then why even bother unless you are simply trolling for trolling's sake.

 

Of course I am not, stop assuming.

[Grayseven]

SWTOR is by all means, a bad mmo in every sense. Gameplay, graphics, mob variaty and even pvp. On top of that its one the more expensive mmos out there.

 

It has literally one thing going for it, the story and the grind to 50. Past that sole exception, everything else is garbage. So fine, blow 45$ and enjoy your 3 months of fun. I'll take my 50$ and get a better mmo like GW2 which has evolved into mmo 1.5. Oh and its a one time deal, no leeching off your wallet there, unlike here.

 

And i lol'ed when you called this a business, It's called EA wiping up the scraps for a last dollar, in order to be a business you need actual consumers. And no, having like 4 servers with just a couple hundred people each isn't much.

 

See, this is how you troll. Especially the "4 servers with a couple hundred people" part. You aren't trolling if you don't make up stupid and obviously false statistics...and calling GW2 better...priceless trolling there.

[Propane]

See, this is how you troll. Especially the "4 servers with a couple hundred people" part. You aren't trolling if you don't make up stupid and obviously false statistics...and calling GW2 better...priceless trolling there.

 

GW2 is obviously better - it shouldn't even be compared to SWTOR. Now lets get back on topic.

 

Remember when swtor had over 100 servers at launch? Doubt you do. Yeah we all left out of disappointment.

Remember when EAware promised us MAC versions at launch?Same Sex? Guild Ships? Still hasn't happened.

They gotta work on gettin that Ewok and another reskinned human race on the Cartel Coin to squeeze more money out of idiots than rather improving the bland half-assed gameplay.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Propane

[BUBBUH]

See, this is how you troll. Especially the "4 servers with a couple hundred people" part. You aren't trolling if you don't make up stupid and obviously false statistics...and calling GW2 better...priceless trolling there.

 

Way to refute my argument? I was dead wrong on my statistics that i used from top of my head. (Lol good thing im starting to forget this garbage though) Know how absolutely wrong i was? 5 servers, not 4, with a few hundred people each, i know my bad.

 

And help me out here, how is GW2 not better? Your trolling if you think otherwise, or your so ignorant you haven't even glanced at what it has to offer, take your blinders off. But its pretty funny your sig is a nice declaration you are ignorant. Surprising.

 

SWTOR

Very bad pvp.

Old gameplay.

Graphics are subpar.

Raids are pretty bad.

Races are horrible

End game is nowhere to be seen.

Excellent story

Grinding is excellent..

It's star wars.

Edit:

Class variety is linear

Overall "map" is smaller, not as interestiing and overall pretty bland even on maxed graphics.

 

GW2.

PVP is top notch.

WvW is top notch. (You don't know what this is being SWTOR is the first mmo you played, imagine 100v100 battles

Graphics are pretty amazing if you can handle it.

Gameplay is more realistic and more intense (Highest cooldown is a minute i think? Faster paced)

Races are more diversive.

End game is also up there, not as good as WoW though, but in time it'll get there.

Grinding is good.

Storys not awesome but its not bad either.

It's Everquest, WoW and like Ultima thrown together

edit:

Class variety is top notch (in fact its basically like skyrim, weapon in each hand dictate your playstyle)

Map is huge and not just a few "planetary instances" and its much more diverse and unique.

 

So your whole "SWTOR>GW2 LOLZ" is a trash argument, i await for you to say "it depends what you value, i value blowing money on a star wars skin LOLZ".

Edited August 1, 2013 by BUBBUH

[Grayseven]

GW2 is obviously better - it shouldn't even be compared to SWTOR. Now lets get back on topic.

 

Remember when swtor had over 100 servers at launch, doubt you do? Yeah we all left out of disappointment.

Remember when EAware promised us MAC versions at launch?Same Sex? Guild Ships? Still hasn't happened.

They gotta work on gettin that Ewok and another reskinned human race on the Cartel Coin to squeeze more money out of idiots than rather improving the bland half-assed gameplay.

 

I've played GW2. It's the same. Even the forums are the same stuff we see here. It isn't better...

 

Has EA/BW dropped the ball at times? Sure. Have they started making attempts at being better? Yep. Are they there yet? Not in my opinion but I do see them trying. But the needs of the many are more important and right now more people are more interested in paying for fluff.

 

I have my gripes with the CM and the amount of focus EA/BW IS placing on it, but that has no bearing on why restrictions on F2P exist outside of buying unlocks to remove them a la carte.

[Grayseven]

Way to refute my argument? I was dead wrong on my statistics that i used from top of my head. (Lol good thing im starting to forget this garbage though) Know how absolutely wrong i was? 5 servers, not 4, with a few hundred people each, i know my bad.

 

And help me out here, how is GW2 not better? Your trolling if you think otherwise, or your so ignorant you haven't even glanced at what it has to offer, take your blinders off.

 

SWTOR

Very bad pvp.

Old gameplay.

Graphics are subpar.

Raids are pretty bad.

Races are horrible

End game is nowhere to be seen.

Excellent story

Grinding is excellent..

It's star wars.

 

GW2.

PVP is top notch.

WvW is top notch. (You don't know what this is being SWTOR is the first mmo you played, imagine 100v100 battles

Graphics are pretty amazing if you can handle it.

Gameplay is more realistic and more intense (Highest cooldown is a minute i think? Faster paced)

Races are more diversive.

End game is also up there, not as good as WoW though, but in time it'll get there.

Grinding is good.

Storys not awesome but its not bad either.

It's Everquest, WoW and like Ultima thrown together

 

So your whole "SWTOR>GW2 LOLZ" is a trash argument, i await for you to say "it depends what you value, i value blowing money on a star wars skin LOLZ".

 

Your "couple of hundred people" per server is so wrong it isn't even funny, but that isn't the worst of your "arguments".

 

I don't agree with any of your assertions on GW2. They are your opinion, mine is that GW2 is a juvenile MMO offering that caters to people with short attention spans and basic game skills.

[Propane]

Your "couple of hundred people" per server is so wrong it isn't even funny, but that isn't the worst of your "arguments".

 

I don't agree with any of your assertions on GW2. They are your opinion, mine is that GW2 is a juvenile MMO offering that caters to people with short attention spans and basic game skills.

 

I wanted to keep GW2 off of this fourm but really - I doubt you've played it. Swtor only averages about 1k players per server. Which isn't that much.

 

"juvenile MMO offering that caters to people with short attention spans and basic game skills." - sounds like you are explaining swtor. Press one and watch your skill bar. Short attention spans - that would defiantly be swtor: explosions and deep grumble voices. "Basic gaming skills" It takes little skill but 200x it takes to play swtor. And why lie about playing GW2? Just to make SWTOR seem any bit higher than the half-assed WoW ripoff gameplay it already is?

 

Differance between the game is that GW2 took risks and made the game amazing. Giving players free content every two weeks that EAware here would probably make us pay 20$ for. SWTOR here took WoW mechanical with fancy animations and tied mobs into groups of three, making it seem like you were an action hero for those who have short attention spans.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Propane

[chuixupu]

GW2 is boring. I paid the $60 at launch, I don't think I've logged in for about 4 months. Like GW2 better? Great, that's your game. People have different opinions on what they enjoy, and that's fine.

 

In the end, whether you play Gw2 or SWTOR, you're going to pay money. You pay your $60 up front for Guild Wars and hope it's worth it, and there are many things which you will require to pay extra money for if you want them. And in the end, it comes down to what you gives you more enjoyment. I'd rather play a game that I actually have fun in, hopefully you all do too, rather than troll the forums of the game you don't enjoy, because that's just juvenile.

[Propane]

GW2 is boring. I paid the $60 at launch, I don't think I've logged in for about 4 months. Like GW2 better? Great, that's your game. People have different opinions on what they enjoy, and that's fine.

 

In the end, whether you play Gw2 or SWTOR, you're going to pay money. You pay your $60 up front for Guild Wars and hope it's worth it, and there are many things which you will require to pay extra money for if you want them. And in the end, it comes down to what you gives you more enjoyment. I'd rather play a game that I actually have fun in, hopefully you all do too, rather than troll the forums of the game you don't enjoy, because that's just juvenile.

 

Now then, keep GW2 off of this forum, because all of the SWTOR fanboys are going to sit here and type up lies.

 

Now lets talk about SWTOR is pay to win.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Propane

[Propane]

Free players: "Cannot equip Purple Level Items unless on Cartel Market."

 

As pay to win as it can get.

[Grayseven]

I wanted to keep GW2 off of this fourm but really - I doubt you've played it. Swtor only averages about 1k players per server. Which isn't that much.

 

"juvenile MMO offering that caters to people with short attention spans and basic game skills." - sounds like you are explaining swtor. Press one and watch your skill bar. Short attention spans - that would defiantly be swtor: explosions and deep grumble voices. "Basic gaming skills" It takes little skill but 200x it takes to play swtor. And why lie about playing GW2? Just to make SWTOR seem any bit higher than the half-assed WoW ripoff gameplay it already is?

 

I play a number of MMO's, often to see what's new out there. GW2 was quickly very boring as there was nothing to it that wasn't already done better elsewhere. Talk about WoW rip off...

 

But that's beside the point. You are entitled to your opinions regardless of how wrong I view them or how strongly I disagree.

[chuixupu]

Now then, keep GW2 off of this forum, because all of the SWTOR fanboys are going to sit here and type up lies.

 

Only lies being typed up here are your baseless claims like there only being 1k players per server.

 

Now lets talk about SWTOR is pay to win.

 

We can't, because it's not. OOPS.

[Grayseven]

Free players: "Cannot equip Purple Level Items unless on Cartel Market."

 

As pay to win as it can get.

 

Nope. It is a restriction because you play for free. I don't believe there are any end-game level purples on the CM.

[Propane]

I play a number of MMO's, often to see what's new out there. GW2 was quickly very boring as there was nothing to it that wasn't already done better elsewhere. Talk about WoW rip off...

 

But that's beside the point. You are entitled to your opinions regardless of how wrong I view them or how strongly I disagree.

 

You obviously haven't played much MMO's if you are calling GW2 a WoW rip off. You probably haven't played WoW if you aren't calling SWTOR a WoW rip off.

 

Now keep GW2 off of here.

 

 

SWTOR's F2P model is horrible and everyone here defending EAware's practices should feel bad.

[BUBBUH]

Your "couple of hundred people" per server is so wrong it isn't even funny, but that isn't the worst of your "arguments".

 

I don't agree with any of your assertions on GW2. They are your opinion, mine is that GW2 is a juvenile MMO offering that caters to people with short attention spans and basic game skills.

 

Lol'd. Keep up your ignorant opinion then. I bet your next one will be "The sky is red and i hate how i breathe air".

 

Also great job on the opinion card after i broke down a whole lot of facts. Enjoying the races that are basically reskinned humans with the same WoW gameplay on a boring map with dumb downed graphics with a total of 8 people in the same warzone who all have the same gear because the raids are all linear? Have fun then.

 

Hopefully swtor will still be around by August 28th, I'll be around to celebrate it's one year death anniversary. Oh yeah, GW2 was released the 28th, get the joke? or you need me to break down that concept for you too?