kweassa Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Healing's fine. It's not that healers are OP, its your team is UP. L2P. Problem solved. Or, if your own L2P isn't enough because your entire team sucks, then man up and get over it. PuGs are like slot machines. It doesn't ding every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odahviin Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Healing's fine. It's not that healers are OP, its your team is UP. L2P. Problem solved. Or, if your own L2P isn't enough because your entire team sucks, then man up and get over it. PuGs are like slot machines. It doesn't ding every time. L2P isn't an answer, there are many talented players who have an issue with healing in it's current state. by your reasoning everyone should L2P a healer. And to be honest why shouldn't they? healers are enjoying their resurgence, I for one have never seen so many healers in wz's face tanking dps. The issue is the same one facing heals previously, why play a dps? Coordination of half or even a third of a wz team shouldn't be required to neutralise the effect of 1 class. At the rate it's going soon everyone can roll a scoundrel / operative and daisy chain cross heal whilst holding hands around objectives that never get capped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelaias Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Exactly the only overpowered thing with 2.0 was the buff to scoundrel/operative energy management which was not needed. Game is probably more balanced now then it has been for a longggg time. The tank/heal combos are a pain to kill but thats working as intended its called teamwork... The only classes considered subpar atm are dps pt/vgs and dps scoundrels for pvp you see all other classes in ranked on a fairly regular basis now. Now lets compare that list to before 2.0. Did you ever see a dps class that wasnt a smasher, pyro or sniper in ranked? it was pretty rare.. Granted snipers and smash are a still a tad above everyone for dps but other then that the game balance isnt that bad and healers can heal through said classes a bit easier now then before. I mean i'm sure someone will find a flaw with what i'm saying or i've missed a spec or 2 but overall the balance is nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Seen any vigilance guardians, or watchmen, or assault anything, or a bunch of othr classes. The balance is crap. Your class having been buffed to faceroll status does not make balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkshadz Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) L2P isn't an answer, there are many talented players who have an issue with healing in it's current state. by your reasoning everyone should L2P a healer. And to be honest why shouldn't they? healers are enjoying their resurgence, I for one have never seen so many healers in wz's face tanking dps. The issue is the same one facing heals previously, why play a dps? Coordination of half or even a third of a wz team shouldn't be required to neutralise the effect of 1 class. At the rate it's going soon everyone can roll a scoundrel / operative and daisy chain cross heal whilst holding hands around objectives that never get capped. Healers trying to facetank my vigilance guardian usually die. They need either crosshealing or to be guarded by a tank to survive. Even if they manage to survive without outside help, they're forced to heal themselves and not their teammates. @Aelaias vigilance guardians are doing fine in pvp. People love to see big yellow numbers on their monitors which is why you don't see much of them. The only thing they should add is a utility skill that no other classes have (a group buff for example). Other than that, they're fine. Edited July 16, 2013 by Darkshadz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Whoever is defending the current status of healing atm in pvp is doing their community a disservice. It is so borked right now it isn't even funny, some classes more than others. some tweaking needs to be done. That's what the terribads say. I don't hear any of the real contendors complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaaate Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Operative healers need a sizeable nerf, o dont know how many ranked any of you play/watch but it's ridiculous, nothing ever dies, the tanks with op healers are unkillable, 4 dos on them and you cant down him, anything should go down to half a team beating on it, dont care about how many cross heals he gets. Ranked is terrible right now because of how good op healers are. Sorcs are fine, give mercs a small buff, but operative heals need to be reduced and they need to make energy management harder for them sorry for any spelling mistakes, typed this on my phone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusFTW Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) Seen any vigilance guardians, or watchmen, or assault anything, or a bunch of othr classes. The balance is crap. Your class having been buffed to faceroll status does not make balance. Vigilance is actually pretty damn good for dmg though kinda overlooked by smash and a little middle of the road for burst. Probably the most fun melee spec due to unstoppable/unremitting. Really need to get my jug to 55 to play it some more. Watchman - the nature of the spec will never make it a competitive pvp spec without completely changing the play style, though for regs its not too bad (heres a pretty decent wz i did with it http://assets.enjin.com/wall_embed_images/1370769822_Screenshot_2013-06-09_10_22_39_405630.jpg) however it could use some form of protection from ccs, slows roots etc (other 2 trees have at least one thing that can free them from being rooted/slowed etc) and cleansing plus maybe merciless slash crit increase talent . Assault - yes it got nerfed, which was needed but ofc bioware took it too far ,on the upside tank VGS are very strong now IMO. I have a pet hate for the slows and peeling they can unleash when i play sent/mara. Also i know a few assault vgs that still perform really well. As for the faceroll class thing, ermm i think you forget how your vg was pre 2.0... Anyways the point i'm making is not that the game is perfectly balanced but its better now then what i can ever remember tbh. More classes are viable now then before. Edited July 16, 2013 by AngusFTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 L2P isn't an answer, there are many talented players who have an issue with healing in it's current state. by your reasoning everyone should L2P a healer. And to be honest why shouldn't they? healers are enjoying their resurgence, I for one have never seen so many healers in wz's face tanking dps. The issue is the same one facing heals previously, why play a dps? Coordination of half or even a third of a wz team shouldn't be required to neutralise the effect of 1 class. At the rate it's going soon everyone can roll a scoundrel / operative and daisy chain cross heal whilst holding hands around objectives that never get capped. Bullshi* to the max. Any healer left alone is more than hard pressed against one good harasser, pretty much dead against two. The way they survive is through (1) self-preservatory action, (2) guards, (3) taunts, (4) cross-heals, (5) peels. When you face one healer that seemingly just won't die, you face approximately the combined effort of around 1/3rd ~ half their team. "neutralise the effect of 1 class" -- telling words in just where the terribads PHAIL at, as well as evidence of serious case of L2P required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Operative healers need a sizeable nerf, o dont know how many ranked any of you play/watch but it's ridiculous, nothing ever dies, the tanks with op healers are unkillable, 4 dos on them and you cant down him, anything should go down to half a team beating on it, dont care about how many cross heals he gets. Ranked is terrible right now because of how good op healers are. Sorcs are fine, give mercs a small buff, but operative heals need to be reduced and they need to make energy management harder for them sorry for any spelling mistakes, typed this on my phone... Well, 2 healers and 2 tanks it's 4 people, half of other team is 4 people. pro tip, stun/mezz other healer and nuke first one, even guarded, one healer will go down with a tank. Operatives need their big heal from time to time, that 'free spammable heal' ain't gonna heal them and tank against 3 or more dps for long. unless by killing 2 tanks and 2 healers you start with killing tanks, then ... wel... uhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Lots of things changed for healing to be the way it is now: - Assault/Pyro got nerfed. That's one less dangerous DPS roaming around. Lots of them are tanks now. - Tanks can shield everything now. There are more tanks in general because of this. - Everyone got a movement buff of some kind. More mobility means easier to survive. - Healers are stronger. There a re more of them now. - Scoundrels/Ops are somewhat pigeon holed into the healing tree. No one is happy watching a Scoundrel load Fletchette Round in the spawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) Lots of things changed for healing to be the way it is now: - Assault/Pyro got nerfed. That's one less dangerous DPS roaming around. Lots of them are tanks now. - Tanks can shield everything now. There are more tanks in general because of this. - Everyone got a movement buff of some kind. More mobility means easier to survive. - Healers are stronger. There a re more of them now. - Scoundrels/Ops are somewhat pigeon holed into the healing tree. No one is happy watching a Scoundrel load Fletchette Round in the spawn. - by amount of bad sins/shadows that recently pop in, I'd say old pyro moved to assassins/shadows. - Not entirly true, we still can't block crits, and many abilities have boost ti crit or granted crit (ofc. I'm not complaining here, it's just a notice), also shield chance went down high (along with crit chance) -true, every one did -and half of them are terribads -not true concealment operatives still kill nicely, just HP pool got higher and TTK lower, but I think old pyro/assault vanguards/pt's who didn't move assassins, rolled operatives (as they read on forums how OP ops and roll are) so we just see lots of bads... Edited July 16, 2013 by Atramar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odahviin Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 That's what the terribads say. I don't hear any of the real contendors complaining. Pat your self on the back champ, you can go right back to your corner and congratulate your self again on what an awe inspiring forum pvper you are. trust me we are all impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 - by amount of bad sins/shadows that recently pop in, I'd say old pyro moved to assassins/shadows. - Not entirly true, we still can't block crits, and many abilities have boost ti crit or granted crit (ofc. I'm not complaining here, it's just a notice), also shield chance went down high (along with crit chance) -true, every one did -and half of them are terribads -not true concealment operatives still kill nicely, just HP pool got higher and TTK lower, but I think old pyro/assault vanguards/pt's who didn't move assassins, rolled operatives (as they read on forums how OP ops and roll are) so we just see lots of bads... Obviously those are general statements but a lot changed in 2.0 that is contributing to the strength of healers. Even all Merc/commandos getting Kolto Bomb/Missile, I can get almost 100k healing just shooting that thing into a group whenever I have a free GCD. It can crit for about 4k if you're lucky. Tanks are also wearing tank gear now. There was a healthy debate before on whether or not tanks should wear DPS or tank gear. Now for the most part tanks are wearing tank gear. I'm just trying to make the point that a lot of things changed in 2.0 that made healers stronger. It's more than just individual class balance. The meta game also underwent big changes that are a part of the strength of healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Pat your self on the back champ, you can go right back to your corner and congratulate your self again on what an awe inspiring forum pvper you are. trust me we are all impressed. But that's not a denial, is it? In the end, its a very simple truth hanging around. Some people can do it, others cannot. I happen to be more akin to being around those who can, while you feel more akin to those who cannot. Unfortunately, those who can, did not get here by an express ticket or something. Try and practice something, before you declare it impossible. It looks badly on you when those who can actually do it are walking around all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 My Assassin can solo kill any healer. It's when you have two healers feeding each other that it becomes impossible....as it should be. I have no issues with how they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Aldo Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Operative healers need a sizeable nerf, o dont know how many ranked any of you play/watch but it's ridiculous, nothing ever dies, the tanks with op healers are unkillable, 4 dos on them and you cant down him, anything should go down to half a team beating on it, dont care about how many cross heals he gets. Ranked is terrible right now because of how good op healers are. Sorcs are fine, give mercs a small buff, but operative heals need to be reduced and they need to make energy management harder for them sorry for any spelling mistakes, typed this on my phone... You are very intelligent sir. The only healers that need nerfed is scound/op heals. Then stuff will actually die in war zones. Right now. The only reason people think healers are OP right now is because of scound/op heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanas Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 cross healing + guard + taunt is definitely broken right now... Something needs a nerf... Not sure where but its needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 cross healing + guard + taunt is definitely broken right now... Something needs a nerf... Not sure where but its needed. CC the healer(s) and kill the tank. You just eliminated guard and taunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_osss Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Energy management is probably the most broken thing. Fix that first then take time to evaluate. Don't try to fix multiple things at once. That's generally a recipe for misunderstanding the effects of your "fixes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankiejo Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 CC the healer(s) and kill the tank. You just eliminated guard and taunt. If you're teammates have there **** together, in most cases you peel off the tank to cc the healer, and your teammates decide to attack the healer and break your cc. You turn around and try to stun mez or snare the tank, and your teammates decide it's time to kill the tank and ignore the healers. It's almost always bad organization that accounts for a team's inability to drop a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szczypaczek Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) CC the healer(s) and kill the tank. You just eliminated guard and taunt. u know this is much harder to achive than simply put a guard, use taunts and cross heals, right? dps kills peeps healz counter dps focus fire counters healer guard and taunts + cross healing counters focus fire and there is no hard counter for guard Edited July 16, 2013 by szczypaczek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneWag Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Carnage/Combat - 8-9k screams + ataru procs. + three roots.... Commandos/Mercs - 11-12k hits... Snipers - 8-10k ambushes, series of shots/speed shot, charged burst/snipe + trick shot/follow through.... LT/TK Sorcs/sages - multiple ways to set up 10k+ burst attacks (affliciton, thundering blast + proc + chain lgihtening proc) Guardians/sents/maras/juggs/sins/shadows/snipers/gunslingers - executes that hit for 8-10k PT / Vanguard: 31 pt talent that hits for 2k followed by a 2k dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 u know this is much harder to achive than simply put a guard, use taunts and cross heals, right? That's the idea, isn't it? If the game were as easy as beat on the healer until dead and kill the rest of the team, then it wouldn't be much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szczypaczek Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) That's the idea, isn't it? If the game were as easy as beat on the healer until dead and kill the rest of the team, then it wouldn't be much fun. u dont understand me, i'm just pointing out, that guarding and taunting is pretty easy to do compared to possible counters when u run single target dps specs. In other words balance is, when guarding would be the same difficulty lvl as countering it. cross healing and guarding requires a lot less communication from your team than countering it, therfore there shoul be at least voice chat attached to the warzone or a one or two guard breaking abilities (they could fill resolve bar like cc, so they could not use them on you in a chain) Edited July 16, 2013 by szczypaczek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 u dont understand me, i'm just pointing out, that guarding and taunting is pretty easy to do compared to possible counters when u run single target dps specs. In other words balance is, when guarding would be the same difficulty lvl as countering it. Right, but there is more to peeling than just putting on guard and taunting. If you get 4 DPS on the same target, the healer is going down through guard and cross heals when taunt wears off (assuming the DPS use some CC). Single target specs can do it themselves. Chase one healer away from the other so the tank follows. Veng guardian can AOE mez, leap to the other healer, push them further out of range and wail on them. If someone else on the team notices then the healer is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts