We Need Clarification

[daclouddwalker]

I'm guessing that like me, you are nowhere near legacy 40, but unlike me, you are not willing to wait until you reach legacy 40 and "have to have it now".

 

You're wrong, Im at legacy 46. I just dont see it as P2W thats all.. I also agree with having the legacy requirement removed.

[Hessen]

worked hard.

 

Worked hard?!

Worked hard???!

...

...

Seriously

[Mark-JPS]

Theft isn't theft regardless. Which is why there are different sentences and different types of theft. Depending on intent, value and a host of other circumstances. There are shades of grey when it comes to what is acceptable.

 

And the content is gated by timesink, not a time window. To earn Legacy 40 you have to put in x amount of hours. For some that is a week, for others it's 2 years. Both have paid for the game itself, the question is, should people with different real life circumstances and priorities have different access to content. You and some others think yes, others think no.

 

Is this your first time playing a MMO game? MMO game like this requires a lot of time where you will really have to be dedicated to get everything. If you're sole reason is because you don't have time to sink in, play regular games. MMO requires countless of hours.

[Ratajack]

I agree that they should remove the legacy requirement.

 

On this we agree. I'd like to see it set up something like this:

 

Pay 1,000,000 credits and no legacy requirement

 

Pay X amount of CC's and no legacy requirement

 

Reach legacy 40 and receive the companion on all characters on that legacy for free

 

 

Of course, that will never happen, nor will the in game legacy + credits requirement be changed as that would remove the incentive to use the CM to purchase this companion. If anyone can simply pay a million credits at any legacy level, why would those players who are legacy 25 but have 50 million credits pay cash to get the companion? By requiring BOTH legacy 40 and a million credits, BW is at least HEAVILY skewing the market and coming very close to pressuring, or almost forcing, the player base into using CC's, especially those without legacy 40.

[Hessen]

Is this your first time playing a MMO game? MMO game like this requires a lot of time where you will really have to be dedicated to get everything. If you're sole reason is because you don't have time to sink in, play regular games. MMO requires countless of hours.

 

This is the problem. People with that narrowminded old school view of what an MMO should be. Why should an MMO only cater to a small niche audience of players with lots of time on their hands to "earn" it all? And why not cater to a variety of playstyles?

 

Someone else buying a virtual pixel carrot that you've spent 4 solid weeks of grinding to unlock, does not affect you whatsoever.

 

I've been playing games long before MMOs were even a speck on the horizon, I've spent months and years unlocking and beating content as part of hardcore raiding groups etc. I've got all the shinies, I know the mindset. But the ultimate answer is simply that people feel that how someone else has gotten something as insignificant as a computer game reward, cheapens how they obtained it. And that's a mindset that is very immature.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Hessen

[Ratajack]

You're wrong, Im at legacy 46. I just dont see it as P2W thats all.. I also agree with having the legacy requirement removed.

 

Then I am wrong. I, however, am only legacy 30 and I still see bypassing the legacy requirement as P2W.

[daclouddwalker]

On this we agree. I'd like to see it set up something like this:

 

Pay 1,000,000 credits and no legacy requirement

 

Pay X amount of CC's and no legacy requirement

 

Reach legacy 40 and receive the companion on all characters on that legacy for free

 

 

Of course, that will never happen, nor will the in game legacy + credits requirement be changed as that would remove the incentive to use the CM to purchase this companion. If anyone can simply pay a million credits at any legacy level, why would those players who are legacy 25 but have 50 million credits pay cash to get the companion? By requiring BOTH legacy 40 and a million credits, BW is at least HEAVILY skewing the market and coming very close to pressuring, or almost forcing, the player base into using CC's, especially those without legacy 40.

 

Ok, i agree with the first 2 methods but the third one.... wouldnt the players who are already past legacy 40(like myself) complain that you dont have to work or earn it?

[Mark-JPS]

This is the problem. People with that narrowminded old school view of what an MMO should be. Why should an MMO only cater to a small niche audience of players with lots of time on their hands to "earn" it all? And why not cater to a variety of playstyles?

 

Someone else buying a virtual pixel carrot that you've spent 4 solid weeks of grinding to unlock, does not affect you whatsoever.

 

Lol.... MMO is a never-ending game. There are always something to do. MMO will always have content regardless of what MMO games you look at (Rift, SWTOR, WoW). At every content they release, you are expected to spend time to see it all.

 

Also if everything is laid out there for everyone to get, what' sthe point of Bioware or other MMO deves releasing content? Why can't they just simply release a ticket that will get you to the final boss?

 

I can see you as a gamer who can't tolerate playing KOTOR because of its length. I bet you're like.. OMG show me the ending already. I don't have to play through all this. If that is you, youtube is there.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Mark-JPS

[Ratajack]

Theft isn't theft regardless. Which is why there are different sentences and different types of theft. Depending on intent, value and a host of other circumstances. There are shades of grey when it comes to what is acceptable.

 

And the content is gated by timesink, not a time window. To earn Legacy 40 you have to put in x amount of hours. For some that is a week, for others it's 2 years. Both have paid for the game itself, the question is, should people with different real life circumstances and priorities have different access to content. You and some others think yes, others think no.

 

Keep telling yourself that. Theft is theft whether or not some people find it acceptable. There may be varying degrees and sentences, but theft is still theft, regardless. There is no grey there.

 

Is it speeding to go 60 in a 55 zone? Yes. Is it speeding to go 85 in a 55 zone? Yes. Both are speeding, although the cops will generally look the other way with the driver doing 60 in a 55 zone, while they will ticket the driver doing 85 in a 55 zone. There is no grey in there.

 

Likewise with regards to DUI. If the legal limit is .08 and someone tests at .09, they are DUI, just as the person who tests at .20. There is no grey, although the person who tests .09 may get away with it.

[GhostShaman]

This is the problem. People with that narrowminded old school view of what an MMO should be. Why should an MMO only cater to a small niche audience of players with lots of time on their hands to "earn" it all? And why not cater to a variety of playstyles?

 

Someone else buying a virtual pixel carrot that you've spent 4 solid weeks of grinding to unlock, does not affect you whatsoever.

 

I've been playing games long before MMOs were even a speck on the horizon, I've spent months and years unlocking and beating content as part of hardcore raiding groups etc. I've got all the shinies, I know the mindset. But the ultimate answer is simply that people feel that how someone else has gotten something as insignificant as a computer game reward, cheapens how they obtained it. And that's a mindset that is very immature.

 

 

Why do people get bored with Grand Theft Auto after using cheat codes constantly all the time? If something is being handed to you, or options are available to bypass requirements then everything gets boring real quick. Obviously the path of least resistance is going to be the one taken by the majority of the player base. You keep referring to this as an old way of thinking or an old way of gaming. Its that "traditionalist" way of thinking that makes games successful, not cash grab games. I expect those who would be affected by the handout would be the most upset at those who dont want to see things so easy to get. These "traditionalist" that you keep labeling make games thrive. The rest of you are band-aids to a bleeding problem.

 

Then what happens when we are completely driven to a cartel market preffered system? What happens is that we will be seeing the same conversations from people that continue to play with no veteran benefit It will be the same thing we see now. Those of you that are cash grabbing will want a discount because you have sunk "X' amount in the market, while the new breeds of give it to me now wont care.

Edited July 7, 2013 by GhostShaman

[Ratajack]

Theft isn't theft regardless. Which is why there are different sentences and different types of theft. Depending on intent, value and a host of other circumstances. There are shades of grey when it comes to what is acceptable.

 

And the content is gated by timesink, not a time window. To earn Legacy 40 you have to put in x amount of hours. For some that is a week, for others it's 2 years. Both have paid for the game itself, the question is, should people with different real life circumstances and priorities have different access to content. You and some others think yes, others think no.

 

If they required legacy 40 for this companion, EVERYONE would have the SAME access to the companion, although maybe not on the same timetable, but the same access regardless. No one would have different access to the companion. Some might get it before others, but everyone would be able to obtain the companion. Think of it like early access for actually playing the game and reaching legacy 40, just as those that pre-ordered the game got to play earlier than those that didn't pre-order the game.

[Ratajack]

Ok, i agree with the first 2 methods but the third one.... wouldnt the players who are already past legacy 40(like myself) complain that you dont have to work or earn it?

 

No more so than the players against bypassing the legacy requirement by throwing money at BW are complaining that those who throw money around in order to bypass unlock requirements.

 

The difference is that with my suggestion, reaching legacy 40 would actually reward you with the pet just for reaching legacy 40 and would not require you to pay credits or CC's to have it on all your characters. This would give actual meaning to legacy level.

 

Those without legacy 40 can still obtain the pet, either by paying credits or CC's, but that payment would be per character only and not legacy wide.

[idnewton]

On this we agree. I'd like to see it set up something like this:

 

Pay 1,000,000 credits and no legacy requirement

 

Pay X amount of CC's and no legacy requirement

 

Reach legacy 40 and receive the companion on all characters on that legacy for free

 

Agreed completely.

[Hessen]

If they required legacy 40 for this companion, EVERYONE would have the SAME access to the companion, although maybe not on the same timetable, but the same access regardless. No one would have different access to the companion. Some might get it before others, but everyone would be able to obtain the companion. Think of it like early access for actually playing the game and reaching legacy 40, just as those that pre-ordered the game got to play earlier than those that didn't pre-order the game.

 

It still all comes down to either hours played or money spent.

 

You could use exactly the same logic for paying cash, EVERYONE would have access to buy it from the CM, they just have to work in real life for £5 to buy it instead of putting in hours on a computer game to "buy" it.

[Hessen]

Why do people get bored with Grand Theft Auto after using cheat codes constantly all the time? If something is being handed to you, or options are available to bypass requirements then everything gets boring real quick. Obviously the path of least resistance is going to be the one taken by the majority of the player base. You keep referring to this as an old way of thinking or an old way of gaming. Its that "traditionalist" way of thinking that makes games successful, not cash grab games. I expect those who would be affected by the handout would be the most upset at those who dont want to see things so easy to get. These "traditionalist" that you keep labeling make games thrive. The rest of you are band-aids to a bleeding problem.

 

Then what happens when we are completely driven to a cartel market preffered system? What happens is that we will be seeing the same conversations from people that continue to play with no veteran benefit It will be the same thing we see now. Those of you that are cash grabbing will want a discount because you have sunk "X' amount in the market, while the new breeds of give it to me now wont care.

 

Funny, because the people who moan most about the lack of things to do are those who don't pay real cash to unlock things but are the ones that sit at home all day every day playing the game to death and burning through content in a week.

 

So I think you are incorrect.

[Ratajack]

It still all comes down to either hours played or money spent.

 

You could use exactly the same logic for paying cash, EVERYONE would have access to buy it from the CM, they just have to work in real life for £5 to buy it instead of putting in hours on a computer game to "buy" it.

 

True, but what I was addressing was your contention that requiring legacy 40 was that requiring legacy 40 would be providing different access to content, which is not true, as I pointed out.

 

Your quote:

 

And the content is gated by timesink, not a time window. To earn Legacy 40 you have to put in x amount of hours. For some that is a week, for others it's 2 years. Both have paid for the game itself, the question is, should people with different real life circumstances and priorities have different access to content. You and some others think yes, others think no.

[Hessen]

True, but what I was addressing was your contention that requiring legacy 40 was that requiring legacy 40 would be providing different access to content, which is not true, as I pointed out.

 

Your quote:

 

Different access again is shades of gray, it's not you either have access or you don't, it taking 2 years or 2 days to unlock an item is "different" that's what I meant.

[Ratajack]

Different access again is shades of gray, it's not you either have access or you don't, it taking 2 years or 2 days to unlock an item is "different" that's what I meant.

 

Was it ok to offer "different access" to the content by providing early access to those that actually pre-ordered the game?

 

That is no different than providing "early access" to the new companion to those that actually played the game and reached legacy 40.

 

Keep in mind that this would all be a moot point if BW eliminated the need to reach legacy 40 in order to purchase the companion using credits. BW is the one establishing different requirements for purchasing the pet, depending upon the method of payment a player chooses.

[Hessen]

Was it ok to offer "different access" to the content by providing early access to those that actually pre-ordered the game?

 

That is no different than providing "early access" to the new companion to those that actually played the game and reached legacy 40.

 

Keep in mind that this would all be a moot point if BW eliminated the need to reach legacy 40 in order to purchase the companion using credits. BW is the one establishing different requirements for purchasing the pet, depending upon the method of payment a player chooses.

 

The vast majority of the content in game is not available instantly to those that want it. We're talking 99% of the missions, the skills, the crafting, the items. All of it is gated by a certain degree of gametime.

 

I'm not on about what is fair or not, what is "ok" or what isn't.

[Hessen]

Why do people get bored with Grand Theft Auto after using cheat codes constantly all the time? If something is being handed to you, or options are available to bypass requirements then everything gets boring real quick. Obviously the path of least resistance is going to be the one taken by the majority of the player base. You keep referring to this as an old way of thinking or an old way of gaming. Its that "traditionalist" way of thinking that makes games successful, not cash grab games. I expect those who would be affected by the handout would be the most upset at those who dont want to see things so easy to get. These "traditionalist" that you keep labeling make games thrive. The rest of you are band-aids to a bleeding problem.

 

Then what happens when we are completely driven to a cartel market preffered system? What happens is that we will be seeing the same conversations from people that continue to play with no veteran benefit It will be the same thing we see now. Those of you that are cash grabbing will want a discount because you have sunk "X' amount in the market, while the new breeds of give it to me now wont care.

 

Also, don't forget that this game originally went the "tradionalist" route with just subscriptions and gametime gated content. And guess what, it wasn't financially viable.

 

So you can mock the "I want it now" casuals all you like. They're keeping the game afloat and represent a sizeable if not majority, part of the playerbase.

[Ratajack]

The vast majority of the content in game is not available instantly to those that want it. We're talking 99% of the missions, the skills, the crafting, the items. All of it is gated by a certain degree of gametime.

 

I'm not on about what is fair or not, what is "ok" or what isn't.

 

We noticed.

[Hessen]

We noticed.

 

Constantly ignoring most of the content of my posts and just picking out certain bits is a classy way to have a discussion btw

 

You don't think it's fair that someone can buy instant access to certain things that can alternatively be earned by a certain amount of gametime. I think appealing to a wider preference in audience is economically sensible given the current market and demand. And there are people on both sides of the fence.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Hessen

[Ratajack]

The vast majority of the content in game is not available instantly to those that want it. We're talking 99% of the missions, the skills, the crafting, the items. All of it is gated by a certain degree of gametime.

 

I'm not on about what is fair or not, what is "ok" or what isn't.

 

Actually, weren't you one of the ones compalining that it wasn't fair that those with "different priorities" or "limited time" could not obtain the companion for a long time if they had to reach legacy 40?

 

Very hypocritical to complain about a requirement to unlock a companion being unfair, but then claiming that you are "not on about what is fair or not".

 

I guess as long as some get what they want, when they want it, they don't care about how fair it is to someone else, but let them be barred by a requirement that might take time to reach and "it's not fair. You're offering 'different access' to content."

[Ratajack]

Constantly ignoring most of the content of my posts and just picking out certain bits is a classy way to have a discussion btw

 

You don't think it's fair that someone can buy instant access to certain things that can alternatively be earned by a certain amount of gametime. I think appealing to a wider preference in audience is economically sensible given the current market and demand. And there are people on both sides of the fence.

 

I don't think it's fair that the requirements differ depending upon the method of payment a player chooses.

 

If both credits and CC's required legacy 40 to purchase the companion, I'd have no problem. If one could purchase the companion with credits or CC's without having to worry about a required legacy level, I'd have no problem.

 

As it stands, if a player chooses to pay with credits, they cannot even think about it until they have legacy 40, but a player at legacy 1 can pay with CC's and bypass the legacy 40 requirement.

 

Do you see the difference?

[Hessen]

Actually, weren't you one of the ones compalining that it wasn't fair that those with "different priorities" or "limited time" could not obtain the companion for a long time if they had to reach legacy 40?

 

Very hypocritical to complain about a requirement to unlock a companion being unfair, but then claiming that you are "not on about what is fair or not".

 

I guess as long as some get what they want, when they want it, they don't care about how fair it is to someone else, but let them be barred by a requirement that might take time to reach and "it's not fair. You're offering 'different access' to content."

 

I've not complained about anything. And I'm not on about what's fair or not. There isn't a right or wrong here. I'm giving my view on things and respecting and understanding yours.

 

Again it's gametime versus money to access non core gameplay affecting "fluff" content. Those who want to unlock things via gametime tend to think it's unfair that someone can buy it instantly with cash. Those who want to unlock things with cash tend to think it's unfair that they have to unlock things via gametime.

 

It's personal preference. One is a "traditional" way of doing things, and SWTOR tried that and it didn't become economically sustainable. The other is a more modern approach based on consumer demand, and that has resulted in enough income to keep the game alive.