The REAL Most Powerful Jedi

[Wolfninjajedi]

We have the statement of Satele Shan that the HoT surpassed her, that's something to consider.

 

And Windu favored lightsaber combat, as Fay favored Force skills, doesn't mean he couldn't have used the Force. Also, as we know he was very powerful in both, we have no idea of Fay's skill with a lightsaber, and that must be taken ito account.

 

It was probably nothing spectacular as it seems just after the initial training, she just didn't use one and never used one in combat.

[marcelo_sdk]

It was probably nothing spectacular as it seems just after the initial training, she just didn't use one and never used one in combat.

 

I mean, she could defend herself against Ventress, but I doubt it would work agains Dooku, for example.

Edited July 2, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[Beniboybling]

I mean, with Ventress she could defend herself against Ventress, but I doubt it would work agains Dooku, for example.

I assume the first Ventress was meant to read Fay. And while no, Fay would unlikely be able to one shot Dooku, exactly that, she defeated Ventress with ease. Just like Yoda.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I mean, with Ventress she could defend herself against Ventress, but I doubt it would work agains Dooku, for example.

 

With using The Force perhaps(because well she did), but not a lightsaber.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[marcelo_sdk]

I assume the first Ventress was meant to read Fay. And while no, Fay would unlikely be able to one shot Dooku, exactly that, she defeated Ventress with ease. Just like Yoda.

 

Yeah, I mispelled, sorry, already corrected.

 

Yes, but what I mean is, Windu had great Force powers + exceptional lightsaber skill. Fay Is incredibly Strong in the force, but when this isn't enough, she's doomed.

[Beniboybling]

Yeah, I mispelled, sorry, already corrected.

 

Yes, but what I mean is, Windu had great Force powers + exceptional lightsaber skill. Fay Is incredibly Strong in the force, but when this isn't enough, she's doomed.

That would only be relevant if this were a vs match however. She likely chose to forgoe her lightsaber because her Force powers were enough.

 

Remember this is still Force using we are considering here.

[StarSquirrel]

Jacen Solo (in the year or so leading up to his fall to the darkside) in my opinion eclipsed even Yoda in power and likely had more force knowledge than Luke at that point (but certainly not as much power).

 

Also, your current number 3 had to get specialty training AND fight him while he was critically injured in order to kill him AND EVEN THEN he let his guard down to save his wife and child so I'd say Jacen really should be #2.

 

As for Yoda, I think there was a thread not too long ago where it was agreed than Jacen could defeat Yoda in a 1v1 fight. That has to count for something.

Edited July 2, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[tunewalker]

Jacen Solo (in the year or so leading up to his fall to the darkside) in my opinion eclipsed even Yoda in power and likely had more force knowledge than Luke at that point (but certainly not as much power).

 

Also, your current number 3 had to get specialty training AND fight him while he was critically injured in order to kill him AND EVEN THEN he let his guard down to save his wife and child so I'd say Jacen really should be #2.

 

As for Yoda, I think there was a thread not too long ago where it was agreed than Jacen could defeat Yoda in a 1v1 fight. That has to count for something.

 

Jacen will be on the Most powerful sith list not here.

[Beniboybling]

Jacen Solo (in the year or so leading up to his fall to the darkside) in my opinion eclipsed even Yoda in power and likely had more force knowledge than Luke at that point (but certainly not as much power).

 

Also, your current number 3 had to get specialty training AND fight him while he was critically injured in order to kill him AND EVEN THEN he let his guard down to save his wife and child so I'd say Jacen really should be #2.

 

As for Yoda, I think there was a thread not too long ago where it was agreed than Jacen could defeat Yoda in a 1v1 fight. That has to count for something.

You probably missed it earlier but this list and all others lists are only counting units at the height of their power. So Jacen, who became Darth Caedus, would not qualify. I just want to have some kind of unified standard for at what point these characters should be judged, and avoid too many similarities between the Jedi and Sith lists. Pure Jedi only!

[StarSquirrel]

You probably missed it earlier but this list and all others lists are only counting units at the height of their power. So Jacen, who became Darth Caedus, would not qualify. I just want to have some kind of unified standard for at what point these characters should be judged, and avoid too many similarities between the Jedi and Sith lists. Pure Jedi only!

 

So no one who was ever corrupted (ie... was sith at the height of their power), Alright I I can see that, didn't notice the format... carry on.

 

I'm just a huge Jacen/Cadeus fan so I like seeing him get what is due him .

[Aurbere]

I'm just a huge Jacen/Cadeus fan so I like seeing him get what is due him .

 

Trust me, he's gonna be #2 on the Sith list, for sure.

[marcelo_sdk]

That would only be relevant if this were a vs match however. She likely chose to forgoe her lightsaber because her Force powers were enough.

 

Remember this is still Force using we are considering here.

 

Again, you are doing this. But let's go on this again.

 

Lightsaber usage is Force using. If you make a list of the 10th greatest lightsaber duelists, do you think there'll be someone who's not a Force sensitive? Not just this, but most people of these lists will be at the list of the greatest duelists. For example, in the REAL most powerful Force-users list, just Vitiate wouldn't make to a list of greatest duelist.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am, but the only non-Force user who achieved a level of Jedi Master with a lightsaber was Grievous. So, it's clear that Lightsaber skill and Force skills walk closely.

[Beniboybling]

Again, you are doing this. But let's go on this again.

 

Lightsaber usage is Force using. If you make a list of the 10th greatest lightsaber duelists, do you think there'll be someone who's not a Force sensitive? Not just this, but most people of these lists will be at the list of the greatest duelists. For example, in the REAL most powerful Force-users list, just Vitiate wouldn't make to a list of greatest duelist.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am, but the only non-Force user who achieved a level of Jedi Master with a lightsaber was Grievous. So, it's clear that Lightsaber skill and Force skills walk closely.

Totally aware of what, which is why Windu's lightsaber skills should be taken into account. However because Fay chose not to wield a lightsaber we can't make a comparison.

[marcelo_sdk]

Totally aware of what, which is why Windu's lightsaber skills should be taken into account. However because Fay chose not to wield a lightsaber we can't make a comparison.

 

Of course, but my point is, I don't think is much below of Fay's Force skills, in fact I think they're, minimu, equal. Taking that, Windu's skill as a duelist is kind of a untie fator.

 

We did this a lot of times with Vitiate, for example (Battlezone - Round 3: Emperor Vitiate vs. Darth Plagueis), so I think it's valid we do so now.

[Beniboybling]

Of course, but my point is, I don't think is much below of Fay's Force skills, in fact I think they're, minimu, equal. Taking that, Windu's skill as a duelist is kind of a untie fator.

 

We did this a lot of times with Vitiate, for example (Battlezone - Round 3: Emperor Vitiate vs. Darth Plagueis), so I think it's valid we do so now.

But that's my point, this isn't a vs debate, so lightsaber skills don't give Windu and edge in terms of Force abilities, that would only be the case if Fay had lightsaber skills to be compared with. Indeed Plagueis was the superior duelist to Vititate, yet it wasn't used as an argument to say Plagueis is the more powerful Force user.

[LadyKulvax]

Beni I am most glad to see you agree with my choice of Fay, I worried that her one time appearance would be her undoing oh and the fact no one's ever heard of her , happily (for me at least) we seem to have a strong case.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Of one character statement, but I digress doesn't really matter to me. Though I think its kinda BS, that such a supposedly powerful Jedi only has one appearance and doesn't really do anything extraordinary in terms of power other then heal Obi-Wan and the rest is all just backstory that is never explored. Edited July 3, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

Of one character statement, but I digress doesn't really matter to me. Though I think its kinda BS, that such a supposedly powerful Jedi only has one appearance and doesn't really do anything extraordinary in terms of power other then heal Obi-Wan and the rest is all just backstory that is never explored.

 

And the fact she owned Ventress even harder than Yoda did one on one and the fact that despite having one lightsaber through the lung and another through the heart she could have survived if she had decided to.

 

It is also significant that a Jedi centuries old fought and solved countless wars across the galaxy and not once needed a lightsaber for any reason.

[Wolfninjajedi]

And the fact she owned Ventress even harder than Yoda did one on one and the fact that despite having one lightsaber through the lung and another through the heart she could have survived if she had decided to.

 

It is also significant that a Jedi centuries old fought and solved countless wars across the galaxy and not once needed a lightsaber for any reason.

 

When a jedi is that powerful with The Force, one doesn't need a lightsaber. Could carry one? Sure, need it? No. Though when did Yoda and Ventress ever face off? All I recall is him taking away her two sabers with ease, and then handing them back to her. If they had an actual duel, then its complete BS that it even happened.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[marcelo_sdk]

And the fact she owned Ventress even harder than Yoda did one on one and the fact that despite having one lightsaber through the lung and another through the heart she could have survived if she had decided to.

 

It is also significant that a Jedi centuries old fought and solved countless wars across the galaxy and not once needed a lightsaber for any reason.

 

Owning Ventress harder or easier than Yoda makes no difference. By that line tought, Windu would be the most powerful Jedi ever, by facts you give Rayla, on this very topic. And about the injuries, we've saw Jedi and Sith enduring far worse injuries and living to tell the tale.

 

Honestly, don't using a lightsaber is kind naive of her, as I said, using only Force powers can work with some people, but cetainly it will not work with more powerful characters. (unless she is a Force wielder )

[LadyKulvax]

Owning Ventress harder or easier than Yoda makes no difference. By that line tought, Windu would be the most powerful Jedi ever, by facts you give Rayla, on this very topic. And about the injuries, we've saw Jedi and Sith enduring far worse injuries and living to tell the tale.

 

Honestly, don't using a lightsaber is kind naive of her, as I said, using only Force powers can work with some people, but cetainly it will not work with more powerful characters. (unless she is a Force wielder )

 

All it shows is that she can knock out a Dark Jedi of Ventress' calibre with her mind, with ease.

 

And no actually, the Sith can survive fatal injuries by using their rage in the Dark Side to corrupt their bodily functions and simply put, survive anything, a light sider doing the same is extremely rare and much much more impressive.

 

Being blown up and taking two lightsabers through the back and still having the ability to survive is incredibly impressive for a light sider.

 

Also how is it naive? it isn't at all, when Jedi abilities like Tutaminis are around, they are only an extent of your force ability, the fact she relied on her prowess with the Force and never relied on the Lightsaber shows extreme dedication to the Force.

 

A Jedi master centuries old and with such an incredibly deep knowledge of the Force is anything but naive, she simply saw the wisdom in a Jedi Master not requiring a lightsaber, Darth Sidious did the same some time after The Force Unleashed, he didn't bother with lightsaber combat at all, he'd always seen it as parlour tricks and taunting before the real battle, I suppose Darth Sidious was also naive.

[LadyKulvax]

Though when did Yoda and Ventress ever face off? All I recall is him taking away her two sabers with ease, and then handing them back to her. If they had an actual duel, then its complete BS that it even happened.

 

No I am stating, rather than just take her weapons she just knocked her out with a mental assault.

[tunewalker]

No I am stating, rather than just take her weapons she just knocked her out with a mental assault.

 

I am again actually Inclined almost to believe you its just so close between Windu and Fay that it is hard to call so I am giving you the benefit of the doubt personally after our little debate but I wouldn't say she was more then 1-2% better its so small that it is hard to call but the question next becomes...... number 7,8,9 and 10 Of these I do believe there are 2 that come to my mind for these spots Nomi Sunrider and Seba Sebatyne.

[Aurbere]

It is unfortunate that Fay isn't a more fleshed out character, but I think we could actually disregard Obi-Wan's opinion and still make the conclusion that she is more powerful than Mace Windu, if only slightly (imo). Edited July 3, 2013 by Aurbere

[marcelo_sdk]

A Jedi master centuries old and with such an incredibly deep knowledge of the Force is anything but naive, she simply saw the wisdom in a Jedi Master not requiring a lightsaber, Darth Sidious did the same some time after The Force Unleashed, he didn't bother with lightsaber combat at all, he'd always seen it as parlour tricks and taunting before the real battle, I suppose Darth Sidious was also naive.

 

Everything true, still he knew that lightsaber combat was neccessary, to the point he became onde of the best duelists of history. And he never stopped carrying a lightsaber, there's numerous cases he used a lightsaber, even after the estabilishment of the Galactic Empire.

 

Yoda was more powerful than Fay with the Force, yet he knew, too, that lightsaber combat was essential to a Jedi. Even before the invention of lightsabers, the Jedi needed to use weapons. I suppose all those Force users had no wisdom.