You don't NEED dual spec, why it will hurt this game more than benefit it

[Friendzie]

Can people please stop making posts acting like this game should leave out fun features that the competitors offer? In this case, you can always have unlimited specs if you have the credits to do so. Dual spec just saves the players money when they want to try out a different tree.

[J_Five]

Sorry coach, I know Jones just twisted his ankle, but I'm a running back. I just can't line up in the slot to play wide receiver these sets of downs, even if I do have good hands. I simply just trained my entire career to play running back, and I would have to be born again and go through a whole new set of training, in order to line up in the slot for you. Sorry coach, can't do it.

[Hokosami]

0/10

 

OP is a dps or a tank, if Op was a healer he would be singing a different toon, bad troll attempt.

[Hautaaja]

0/10

 

OP is a dps or a tank, if Op was a healer he would be singing a different toon, bad troll attempt.

 

I'm a healer and support single spec. I was mainly a healer in WoW too, before dual spec was patched in. But yeah I can understand that they want to make this a casual experience, it's just not the game I want so I most likely won't be sticking around after my 30 days run out. :/

[Nocturneus]

Here's a novel idea that many of the pre-WoW fanboyism players of the genre will appreciate. When you pick your class (which u can see every single ability and talent of at any time on a website), you actually decide what type of role you would like to fulfill. Holy crap, thats just crazy talk. Actually thinking THROUGH your decision when making a character, absolute nonsense.

 

Man I sure like healing, perhaps I will play a HEALER. I understand that leveling a healer is not always the easiest but it is paid for endgame when they are a rarity because many people don't want to put the work in. This is a concept that has existed since the very first MMO's were made. Not very hard.

 

Nowadays, the cancer that is WoW has convinced people that MMO's should make my life as easy as possible and diminish the importance of the decisions I make with my character.

 

Screw dual spec, pick a character using some actual thought and foresight. Not like this is EQ and it takes years to hit max level. 5 days it takes to hit 50 (and bioware even added unique storylines for each different base class), man thats almost like...a week.

 

It should also be noted, there are respecs in this game, and unless you do it every day, its really not expensive, so...

[Calsidian]

Sorry coach, I know Jones just twisted his ankle, but I'm a running back. I just can't line up in the slot to play wide receiver these sets of downs, even if I do have good hands. I simply just trained my entire career to play running back, and I would have to be born again and go through a whole new set of training, in order to line up in the slot for you. Sorry coach, can't do it.

 

No, he can do it, he just needs to go visit his personal trainer back home, spend loads of money, then completely forget how to be a running back and instead suddenly know how to be a wide reciever.

 

Immersion.

[Zulfur]

As I have been reading this and the other posts, I am starting to agree.

 

1. I don't want to have to have multiple characters or have to grind thru them.

2. I liked the dual spec in WOW, but not in Rifts. The ability to change anywhere negated groups from thinking thru who they were taking.

3. I agree with those that speak of PvE spec vs PvP spec. I like to PvP also, this makes sense.

 

Some want to Tank and DPS. I want to stealth and heal.

What we need is to have the ability to switch classes. Or have a class-less system completely. Then you can do whatever, where ever and as fast or strong as you want to.

It can even be level-less so then we can just pick the skills across all the classes and mix an match them. Then we clould have an SI wearing armored pants (that look like CE vendor Armor) with Flamethrowers and stealth ability that can heal at will.

 

This solves all the issues I have heard on why we need dual specs while fixing the issue of not enough Tanks and Healers. It also makes the 'solo only' people happy.

[Airinya]

here's a novel idea that many of the pre-wow fanboyism players of the genre will appreciate. When you pick your class (which u can see every single ability and talent of at any time on a website), you actually decide what type of role you would like to fulfill. Holy crap, thats just crazy talk. Actually thinking through your decision when making a character, absolute nonsense.

 

Man i sure like healing, perhaps i will play a healer. I understand that leveling a healer is not always the easiest but it is paid for endgame when they are a rarity because many people don't want to put the work in. This is a concept that has existed since the very first mmo's were made. Not very hard.

 

Nowadays, the cancer that is wow has convinced people that mmo's should make my life as easy as possible and diminish the importance of the decisions i make with my character.

 

Screw dual spec, pick a character using some actual thought and foresight. Not like this is eq and it takes years to hit max level. 5 days it takes to hit 50 (and bioware even added unique storylines for each different base class), man thats almost like...a week.

 

It should also be noted, there are respecs in this game, and unless you do it every day, its really not expensive, so...

 

amen!

[Schnerf]

Dual spec was patched into WoW, that in turn led to horrible implementations such as LFD and insta-port to dungeons. Let me tell you why me and others are so blatantly opposed to this.

 

Convenience options such as this completely shattered immersion in WoW, that inturn led people only to care about gear and spec for PvP and raiding. When immersion is broken, nothing is left EXCEPT the "physical" reward. This is first and foremost a story-driven MMO, you cannot deny this, and part of being a story MMO is keeping players immersed, this entails working for things and making choices (sometimes difficult ones) which end up enchancing the experience rather than detracting from it.

 

The "physical" reward is the one and only reason I play MMO games. Immersion? I couldn't care less about that, games are games. You say a story driven MMO? Do you know what the only, and literally only difference between the story here and story in WoW is these days? It's that it's voice acted. The only part of this game story has any say in, is your journey from level 1-50, it is there to shatter the illusion of grinding. So please, it's no more story driven than tetris is, if you imagine every brick having a good reason why it's falling when it is, to make it less tedious. Every MMO on the market is story driven, minus the voice acting.

 

BioWare clearly wants players to level up multiple classes to enjoy their diverse stories. What's the point if you can just respec to a different role? Many people would not level up a second class, muich to the detriment of BioWare's work on the story of every class (furthermore I can guarantee they would be missing out on some pretty epic stories ).

 

The point is convenience. Having to roll a new character and waste countless of hours for the purpose of experiencing what every other MMO in the world offers without such a tedious method, is a joke. Once again the story part is subjective and has no influence on tons of people, realize this.

 

I'd also like to remind people of the days before Dual Spec in WoW, was it really so bad? The answer is clearly NO. People either A: respeced completely and had to learn from the ground up and PAY the price for doing so, or B: rerolled and leveled up a second class. Both of these benefited Blizzard, it made a gold sink and got players through leveling content they had not seen before.

 

It was an atrocity. For guilds such as mine, who heavily focused on raiding and competing for server kills and world rankings, having to waste 15 minutes porting back, sorting out a new spec and keybinds, just because the boss requires it, how in the world do you not consider this annoying? Does it break your immersion that instead of being able to start enjoying the game on the spot, you have to waste your own 15 minutes, and 15 minutes of 24(in this case 17) other people by going back and changing your spec to accommodate the raid? Indeed, pretty huge immersion breaker right there.

 

Why is this good for the player? It makes you value the time you spend more, and especially your character and spec in the first place! For PvP players this reduces the "FoTM" problem drastically by making people learn to truly choose the role and spec they want from the get go and learn to ride out any discrepancies in patch "nerfs" or "buffs".

 

And by doing so it removes freedom and constrains people in their playstyle, because they can't simply make pvp more enjoyable for themselves. Good stuff.

 

 

As for those of you whose guilds will "force" you to change roles for hard core raiding, honestly I can tell you from personal experience if you aren't willing to take the time to simply level a character perhaps the hard-core raiding zone is not for you.Mmaybe if you don't want to take the time to re-roll you shouldn't be in that guild, I personally am leveling two classes for my raiding guild, and I am content in having to level them both up, that is the least of my troubles, sure it is a time-sink SORT OF, but BioWare has done an exceptional job here in making leveling enjoyable.

 

They have not made the leveling enjoyable, again this is merely your subjective opinion. Only reason we would be "forced" to level other classes, is because bioware refuses to let us play our class in a convenient way. So it's not the guild that forces you, it's the developer, and in this case it has really nothing to do with being able to switch specs. I come from a pretty heavy wow guild, even with dual talents we leveled several characters, for lockout purposes and for the role purposes. This is something that should never be forced on players, and it is a good way to ruin smaller guilds, because you force them to over recruit and bench people or because you force a small amount of less hardcore players to level several classes if they want to enjoy the content in each others company. So once again, immersion right?

 

Also if you don't enjoy the leveling you are in the wrong game

 

Why? Because you say so? Or is there something I've been missing since the dawn of MMORPG games. I don't enjoy leveling, ever, yet I do it to get my physical need fulfilled.

This argument is no more valid than what you just said.

 

Overall Dual-spec and similar options people have been crying over won't help, just soothe a problem that's been the cause of many other player-driven issues, let people complain for awhile BioWare, they will learn to appreciate the decision you made.

 

The decision to add dual spec? I don't recall them saying they wouldn't. Above you can see all the actual reasons as to why all your ideas are horrible, feel free to read up.

 

TL;DR: You are wrong.

[dynamostia]

I agree with the OP in principle and the only situation where the argument falls down is having a spec for PvP. If I am tank specced for PvE then I really shouldn't endure a penalty every time I want to PvP.

 

PvE wise I can see the argument for not having dual spec but as a matter on convenience and adaptability why not? However, I do agree that we should never be able to change our advanced class because otherwise it would trivialize our decision. Indeed, I leveled three characters to level 10 whilst I was deciding upon my mains advanced class.

 

I really hope we dont see flying mounts and that Bioware thinks very carefully about implementing group finding tools. From my WoW experience whilst it made doing stuff convenient it removed so many players from the world environments and turned an mmo into a single player game where you played with strangers whom often acted in an obnoxious manner. I'd like a game environment where there are people IN it rather than spending there time sitting in a queue.

[Hautaaja]

Here's a novel idea that many of the pre-WoW fanboyism players of the genre will appreciate. When you pick your class (which u can see every single ability and talent of at any time on a website), you actually decide what type of role you would like to fulfill. Holy crap, thats just crazy talk. Actually thinking THROUGH your decision when making a character, absolute nonsense.

 

Man I sure like healing, perhaps I will play a HEALER. I understand that leveling a healer is not always the easiest but it is paid for endgame when they are a rarity because many people don't want to put the work in. This is a concept that has existed since the very first MMO's were made. Not very hard.

 

Nowadays, the cancer that is WoW has convinced people that MMO's should make my life as easy as possible and diminish the importance of the decisions I make with my character.

 

Screw dual spec, pick a character using some actual thought and foresight. Not like this is EQ and it takes years to hit max level. 5 days it takes to hit 50 (and bioware even added unique storylines for each different base class), man thats almost like...a week.

 

It should also be noted, there are respecs in this game, and unless you do it every day, its really not expensive, so...

 

Yeah man.. Another genre ruined by appealing to the "I want it all now" audience.

[mikeytt]

Ya i was stunned there was no duel spec.Thats why i liked rift.

[Herbertllew]

I feel certain that if dual-spec is implemented, it will be optional for you to buy it or not.

 

If you're that opposed to it, then don't buy it.

 

Unless what you're really worried about is whether other people enjoy something you don't like.

[Aramyn]

Dual specs will improve the game and the enjoyment I get from it.

 

Bring it on.

[J_Five]

No, he can do it, he just needs to go visit his personal trainer back home, spend loads of money, then completely forget how to be a running back and instead suddenly know how to be a wide reciever.

 

Immersion.

 

Yeah cause that's incredibly immersive

[paspinall]

Great post and I completely agree with this. Dual spec is for lazy people who don't want to enjoy this game for what it is.

 

maybe its just for people who dont want to spend the hundreds of thousands of credits each time they offer to heal an instance as opposed to dps an instance. Its flawed logic to insist its for lazy people, and lazy people would just go as is.

[dharh]

The only possible way dual spec would be acceptable is that you actually must level up that spec all over again. Moving your character from 1 to 50 again, doing the story. Then when you reach 50 again you can switch from one to the other via credit costs and completely a daily/weekly quest.

 

Anything else would be abhorrent to all that this game stands for, which is the story. Not PVP, fat loots, not epeen contests.

 

maybe its just for people who dont want to spend the hundreds of thousands of credits each time they offer to heal an instance as opposed to dps an instance. Its flawed logic to insist its for lazy people, and lazy people would just go as is.

 

EQ doesn't have dual spec and never did. You know how we dealt with it? We rolled an alt.

Edited December 21, 2011 by dharh

[J_Five]

The only possible way dual spec would be acceptable is that you actually must level up that spec all over again. Moving your character from 1 to 50 again, doing the story. Then when you reach 50 again you can switch from one to the other via credit costs and completely a daily/weekly quest.

 

Anything else would be abhorrent to all that this game stands for, which is the story. Not PVP, fat loots, not epeen contests.

 

You do know that Advanced Classes with separate specs have the same story line right? You're saying this game is all about the story, so you should have to go through your story twice?

[Aramyn]

The only possible way dual spec would be acceptable is that you actually must level up that spec all over again. Moving your character from 1 to 50 again, doing the story. Then when you reach 50 again you can switch from one to the other via credit costs and completely a daily/weekly quest.

 

Anything else would be abhorrent to all that this game stands for, which is the story. Not PVP, fat loots, not epeen contests.

 

 

 

EQ doesn't have dual spec and never did. You know how we dealt with it? We rolled an alt.

 

So I guess they should take re-spec'ing out of the game completely with that logic..

 

And rolling an alt just to try a different playstyle in the same class is just ridiculous and in no way fun at all.

[Airinya]

Yeah man.. Another genre ruined by appealing to the "I want it all now" audience.

 

Yeah, tired of these cames catering to crybabies. If SWTOR chooses to then it's just off to GW2 when it's out.

[daeseer]

I think you're missing the point of dual spec.

 

Yeah, I agree that my Sorcerer shouldn't just be able to hit a button and switch to Assassin. But he should certainly be able to hit a button to switch spec from Lightning to Corruption.

 

Dual spec means just that: dual spec. Not Dual Advanced Class.

 

However, your story argument fails for one reason: if you level an inquisitor, or a Jedi Knight, or whatever, the story is exactly the same regardless of what advanced class you pick. Yeah, you can level another of the same class and pick other conversation options. Be kinda like playing Mass Effect again on Renegade when you did Paragon the first time. Trouble is, they're still the same missions, still the same stories. I don't have much desire to do that stuff twice.

 

Then again, I would really like to have both a sorcerer and assassin. But I'm going to have to wait a long time before I can stomach leveling through all of the Inquisitor quests again.

[DemonSoliloquy]

The only possible way dual spec would be acceptable is that you actually must level up that spec all over again. Moving your character from 1 to 50 again, doing the story. Then when you reach 50 again you can switch from one to the other via credit costs and completely a daily/weekly quest.

 

Anything else would be abhorrent to all that this game stands for, which is the story. Not PVP, fat loots, not epeen contests.

 

 

 

EQ doesn't have dual spec and never did. You know how we dealt with it? We rolled an alt.

 

I think people are confused here.

You're mistaking respeccing SKILL trees with ADVANCED CLASSES.

Two different things.

[Pyrolight]

Dual spec was patched into WoW, that in turn led to horrible implementations such as LFD and insta-port to dungeons. Let me tell you why me and others are so blatantly opposed to this.

 

No it didn't. Those are not ever related in any form.

 

Convenience options such as this completely shattered immersion in WoW, that inturn led people only to care about gear and spec for PvP and raiding. When immersion is broken, nothing is left EXCEPT the "physical" reward. This is first and foremost a story-driven MMO, you cannot deny this, and part of being a story MMO is keeping players immersed, this entails working for things and making choices (sometimes difficult ones) which end up enchancing the experience rather than detracting from it.

 

Bwahahahahahaha...

 

I am sorry at no point did dual specs in WoW change the "immersion" factor. You were NEVER locked into a spec it was nothing but a gold sink to change it.

 

 

 

BioWare clearly wants players to level up multiple classes to enjoy their diverse stories. What's the point if you can just respec to a different role? Many people would not level up a second class, muich to the detriment of BioWare's work on the story of every class (furthermore I can guarantee they would be missing out on some pretty epic stories ).

 

1. Spacebar through the stories skips them to even when leveling another class.

 

2. WTH does this have to do with Dual specs (either skill trees or advanced classes) at all? The story is identical regardless of which advanced class you take.

 

Dual specs would mean you would not be leveling up with the SAME STORY again.

 

 

I'd also like to remind people of the days before Dual Spec in WoW, was it really so bad? The answer is clearly NO. People either A: respeced completely and had to learn from the ground up and PAY the price for doing so, or B: rerolled and leveled up a second class. Both of these benefited Blizzard, it made a gold sink and got players through leveling content they had not seen before.

 

Again this is totally ridiculous and incorrect.

 

A. You only had to pay gold, there was no additional price. Either way it was a different Role (depending on class) before or after dual specs.

 

B. You didn't need to roll a different class before dual specs. It is utterly stunning how stupid your comment sounds. The talent trees were still there and could be respeced for gold at any time. Dual specs didn't change anything but the gold cost.

 

Why is this good for the player? It makes you value the time you spend more, and especially your character and spec in the first place! For PvP players this reduces the "FoTM" problem drastically by making people learn to truly choose the role and spec they want from the get go and learn to ride out any discrepancies in patch "nerfs" or "buffs".

 

Again nothing but gold costs. Bad argument.

 

 

As for those of you whose guilds will "force" you to change roles for hard core raiding, honestly I can tell you from personal experience if you aren't willing to take the time to simply level a character perhaps the hard-core raiding zone is not for you.Mmaybe if you don't want to take the time to re-roll you shouldn't be in that guild, I personally am leveling two classes for my raiding guild, and I am content in having to level them both up, that is the least of my troubles, sure it is a time-sink SORT OF, but BioWare has done an exceptional job here in making leveling enjoyable.

 

Again you NEVER had to roll two classes in WoW for raiding. You just had to shell out 50 gold to change your roll. It was annoying but it was not remotely similar to what you are trying to describe.

 

Also if you don't enjoy the leveling you are in the wrong game

 

ROFL. If you think this you are in the wrong genre. This is not a single player RPG. Endgame is what matters, not leveling.

 

Overall Dual-spec and similar options people have been crying over won't help, just soothe a problem that's been the cause of many other player-driven issues, let people complain for awhile BioWare, they will learn to appreciate the decision you made.

 

A lovely conclusion to a wonderfully nonsensical argument on your part.

[Rhonen]

Dual spec was patched into WoW, that in turn led to horrible implementations such as LFD and insta-port to dungeons. Let me tell you why me and others are so blatantly opposed to this.

 

Convenience options such as this completely shattered immersion in WoW, that inturn led people only to care about gear and spec for PvP and raiding. When immersion is broken, nothing is left EXCEPT the "physical" reward. This is first and foremost a story-driven MMO, you cannot deny this, and part of being a story MMO is keeping players immersed, this entails working for things and making choices (sometimes difficult ones) which end up enchancing the experience rather than detracting from it...

 

It's too late, we already have the ULTIMATE convenience feature - AOE looting! Even WoW doesn't have that.

 

By your own argument (dual spec leads to more convenience features) SWTOR is already well on it's way to being "ruined."

 

So, since we ALREADY have AOE looting convenience, bring on the dual spec and LFD!

[Nocturneus]

The "physical" reward is the one and only reason I play MMO games. Immersion? I couldn't care less about that, games are games. You say a story driven MMO? Do you know what the only, and literally only difference between the story here and story in WoW is these days? It's that it's voice acted. The only part of this game story has any say in, is your journey from level 1-50, it is there to shatter the illusion of grinding. So please, it's no more story driven than tetris is, if you imagine every brick having a good reason why it's falling when it is, to make it less tedious. Every MMO on the market is story driven, minus the voice acting.

 

 

 

 

Why? Because you say so? Or is there something I've been missing since the dawn of MMORPG games. I don't enjoy leveling, ever, yet I do it to get my physical need fulfilled.

This argument is no more valid than what you just said.

 

 

 

The decision to add dual spec? I don't recall them saying they wouldn't. Above you can see all the actual reasons as to why all your ideas are horrible, feel free to read up.

 

TL;DR: You are wrong.

 

Thats one of the most ignorant and erroneous posts in this thread.

 

With the exception of the what....5 ...class specific quests in WoW, every single quest can be done by every single character on a side. That right there already proves that this questing experience is not even remotely similar to WoWs. Does each class in WoW have a unique storyline portrayed DIRECTLY in the game? (not your mind)?

 

Second, you stating that physical reward is the only reason you play MMO's just exemplifies that you are not qualified whatsoever to comment on anything in the MMORPG genre, just another WoWbaby who thinks they understand the concept behind the genre because they had a max rank arena character.

 

So yes, you are missing something, and you've made it abundantly clear to anyone who knows ANYTHING about MMO's and the concept that started the genre and continues to make games like Everquest successful after a decade of being out.